One example is not indicative of a trend. Besides, the game they're making the DLC for in the first place had give or take the exact same sales on Xbox and PS in the first place. So their rationale for skipping it makes even less sense, maybe a bit of vindictiveness because they wanted it to go on game pass but MS refused ?
Who can say.
Haven was poorly made shit, they’re lucky anyone even looked at it.
Furi is overhyped, it’s MEH.
I’d be more interested in hearing from a dev that makes actual good games.
Gamepass is starting to gain momentum, so people want to knock it down. “Gamepass is starving devs and sucks, and also dumps babies in buckets of water” is the new hot topic.
But it's comparing one game 'Haven' on one service Playstation plus to a different game 'Furi' on another serivce Gamepass.
Strike that, Reverse it.
Haven was poorly made shit, they’re lucky anyone even looked at it.
Furi is overhyped, it’s MEH.
I’d be more interested in hearing from a dev that makes actual good games.
Gamepass is starting to gain momentum, so people want to knock it down. “Gamepass is starving devs and sucks, and also dumps babies in buckets of water” is the new hot topic.
Game released in 2016, and gamepass launched in 2017..
I'm struggling.. to find enjoyment.Bought it on PS4 way back when. Just for the sake of this thread, I'll give it a go this evening..!
Just keep at it! LolI'm struggling.. to find enjoyment.
Wait the dlcI'm struggling.. to find enjoyment.
Great thing about the Gamepass App is, there is section titled 'Recently Added'. Every new game added to Gamepass so far will appear on that list. The section is really easy to find, it's almost one of first things you come across. Appearing on that list alone is good exposure. And I bet developers are not charged either for it.People missing the point as per usual.
Its about churn and competition. Its all well and good releasing a thing on a digital storefront, as it gives people a means to buy. But. if noone is made aware of its existence, or led towards it its just not going to sell. At all.
This is a problem if you don't have the resources to self-promote; how do you attract attention at a time when most major review outlets only cover a sliver of the total content released in any given week?
You end up stuck hoping to be in the good graces of the platform holder/storefront operator, and getting at least a little bit of prominence to let people know your product exists. Of course from the platform operator's end they have a certain finite number of priority slots to fill visibility-wise, and so will seek to allocate them in a way that's best for them and their business... Naturally meaning that indies on Gamepass will be favoured above those not on the service.
It should be obvious what this means in the long-term.
Well, you don’t. That’s why people like the service, you get access to more games for less money.I agree but if the game in question is still on gamepass then why buy the game
That's what I'm trying to explain to some but apparently it goes way beyond their head.Well, you don’t. That’s why people like the service, you get access to more games for less money.
Soon we have that on PS5 too through the updated PS+.
I understand that there is some concern how long this cheap era will last but I leave it to MS and Sony to figure that out. I’m prepaid til 2024 on both services which ends up costing me $5/month.
Is that what they’re saying?That's what I'm trying to explain to some but apparently it goes way beyond their head.
For now we have no concrete evidence of games sales increase but we do know what happenned with Haven for example.Because in your example and you conceeded that too, a good game being on gamepass increase the sales of gamepass but not necesarily of the game.Another argument that can be made is considering how much there is gamepass you can consider that most people invested in gaming on Xbox already has gamepass or at least (if you consider most too much) it has eaten a lot of the potential sales(kinda like what happenned with fury ps+).Is that what they’re saying?
Or are they saying sales can increase thanks to Gamepass?
The later can happen like I said before since there are still more people who aren’t subscribing.
A great game will get better sales because people talk on social media and boards and play on streams etc.
If all you hear from a Gamepass release are positive things then that’s the best start a game can get.
A bad game on Gamepass will get worse sales though, because people talk on social media and boards and play on streams etc…
If all you hear from a Gamepass release are negative things then that’s the worst start a game can get…
No idea what they should do once everyone are subscribing.
Base the payment on playtime? Would make devs do stupid things to keep gamers playing longer.
Base the payment on downloads? Would get devs to do stupid things with the cover art, trailers and text summary to lure people to click download.
For now we have no concrete evidence of games sales increase but we do know what happenned with Haven for example.
Another key point is sheer sales numbers. Indie devs like money just as much as anyone else, but many of them are just happy that their game is getting some attention. The numbers reflect the benefits here, too -- Indie devs see a 300% growth in revenue, split between 190% in participation payments and bonuses for the Xbox Game Pass program and 110% in game add-ons and revenue.
“It’s been very dependent on the game for us,” notes Mike Rose, founder of No More Robots. “For Descenders, it has been immense. Sales across all platforms increased after we went into Game Pass – for example, Steam sales tripled since Game Pass – and Xbox sales themselves quadrupled after Game Pass.
Do you read the links you provide or not ?Because the first link still is about average spending and not game being on gamepass sales and on the second link the dev themselves mitigate those numbers explainning a few lines later that it is a mixed bag.But we do have concrete evidence though:
It also helps sales across other platforms, including xbox, as per developers themselves:
Developers themselves are touting sales increases. The Haven developer is one example that didn't have the same success whereas multiple others did.
Do you read the links you provide or not ?Because the first link still is about average spending and not game being on gamepass sales and on the second link the dev themselves mitigate those numbers explainning a few lines later that it is a mixed bag.
If you want to use this article, it explains that the game sales have spiked every time they were on the dashboard which is strangely enough the point that I made earlier.So yeah maybe gamepass helped that title, maybe visibility helped that title just like the dev explained that their absolute peak happenned during discounts and (that won't surprise a lot of people) when it released on Switch.
I really would like to get the sales number of games on the dashboard/ not on gamepass and games on gamepass/not on the dashboard, that would give a better representation of what number was correlated to let's call it marketing and the other to the benefits of word of mouth through gamepass.
Yes, did you read past the header at least ? That's why I didn't copy the entire thing and the relevant parts that talk about indie sales and revenue increasing 300%~ when on game pass.
That's what we're talking about.
Developer "Game pass is good yo"
Gaffer "ehh I don't believe you".
Why nitpick so much, game pass content gets relevant exposure but the key point is that the bigger majority of indie developers report success and are happy with the increase in game sales when they're on game pass.
Which answers your original question:
For now we have no concrete evidence of games sales increase
Yes. We do have the evidence, it's the developers themselves.
You can add as many qualifiers and caveats to it as you want, the proof is in the pudding.
Sure, you can keep adding filters till you find something that fits your narrative. You're entitled to it.
Yes, did you read past the header at least ? That's why I didn't copy the entire thing and the relevant parts that talk about indie sales and revenue increasing 300%~ when on game pass.
That's what we're talking about.
Developer "Game pass is good yo"
Gaffer "ehh I don't believe you".
Why nitpick so much, game pass content gets relevant exposure but the key point is that the bigger majority of indie developers report success and are happy with the increase in game sales when they're on game pass.
Which answers your original question:
For now we have no concrete evidence of games sales increase
Yes. We do have the evidence, it's the developers themselves.
You can add as many qualifiers and caveats to it as you want, the proof is in the pudding.
Sure, you can keep adding filters till you find something that fits your narrative. You're entitled to it.
an inability to secure future promotions for Furi on Xbox’s storefront for increased awareness
We talked to the team at Xbox to see if there was a way to get some support, but Furi didn’t align with the Game Pass strategy focused on new titles
Histrionic?Tell me you are playing Rogue legacy 2 without telling me ....(Maybe you are not but I learned that word thanks to Rogue legacy 2)Maybe adams is mike himself ?Since he felt that posting links about indies mistreated by Sony was a good justification as to why gamepass increases sales.The guy’s tweet you posted praising Game Pass seems to have a serious chip on his shoulder with Sony to the point of using histrionics.
Descenders publisher slams PlayStation Store for burying the PS4 game
Descenders publisher No More Robots has slammed the PlayStation Store for burying the PS4 game, even for searches of its own name.www.gamerevolution.com
HuhHistrionic?Tell me you are playing Rogue legacy 2 without telling me ....(Maybe you are not but I learned that word thanks to Rogue legacy 2)Maybe adams is mike himself ?Since he felt that posting links about indies mistreated by Sony was a good justification as to why gamepass increases sales.
See that's the problem with some people here, to them pointing a flaw or a consequence is being a fanboy or trying to make x looks bad.In this case it is only the logical consequence of having a popular service with lots of games, either they get promoted or lose a lot of visibility.In this case Ms did not want to increase the visibility of fury (understandable seeing how poorly the game sold on Xbox) then the studio pondered if porting the games to abysmal sales would be profitable for them.They thought it wasn't so they did not port the DLC.All of that is not a gamepass == bad or anything it is just financial decision because sadly first and foremost gaming is a business.Keep trying to make game pass look bad.
I meant previous posts of adamsapple not the one posted by Jaybe .About the bolded, just like some here whom are dismissing this dev right ?Why does one bothers you but not the other especially in a thread about the latter.Huh
Addamsapple isn't the one that posted that article though; the person you responded to posted it. Anything to downplay the benefits of game pass to devs, huh?
No, just have a vocabulary from reading but RL2 looks good. I’m sure adamsapple point is in good faith, you have to follow these things over time to know if there’s more context. Truth is, isn’t a lot of info on one side or the other published. At the end of the day, companies that choose to take a deal to be on a sub be it game pass or PS+ Do so on their own volition, so in theory they deem it in their interests.Histrionic?Tell me you are playing Rogue legacy 2 without telling me ....(Maybe you are not but I learned that word thanks to Rogue legacy 2)Maybe adams is mike himself ?Since he felt that posting links about indies mistreated by Sony was a good justification as to why gamepass increases sales.
It's furi, not fury. I think that kind of says it all.See that's the problem with some people here, to them pointing a flaw or a consequence is being a fanboy or trying to make x looks bad.In this case it is only the logical consequence of having a popular service with lots of games, either they get promoted or lose a lot of visibility.In this case Ms did not want to increase the visibility of fury (understandable seeing how poorly the game sold on Xbox) then the studio pondered if porting the games to abysmal sales would be profitable for them.They thought it wasn't so they did not port the DLC.All of that is not a gamepass == bad or anything it is just financial decision because sadly first and foremost gaming is a business.
Yep it says I have a an autocorrect that doesn't know this game and to help the situation doesn't know a lot of english and believe me it is sometimes a nightmare(if I want to type coping it almost always autocorrect to copine which means girlfriend in french it's fun in posts but when you are talking to a friend that got dumped . and he understand that he needs to (and that's what he understood) find a way to fuck over his ex is problematic the confusion following was one of the most cringiest moment I ever lived)It's furi, not fury. I think that kind of says it all.
Cool (I guess) that the dev continues to support the game, but it was a colossal failure. No amount of updates will change that. The dev is just losing money continuing to support it. And no one even noticed xbox didn't get the update... because no one knows this game exists. Fury, furi... whatever it's called!
This word exists in french too but another synonyme is often used instead so I never encountered it before...Of course sadly gaming is a business and needs money to continue so that something understandable just like if the situation was in reverse since there is a lot of haven downloads and the studio wouldn't want to release DLC for ps right now because the core of their players is on gamepass.No, just have a vocabulary from reading but RL2 looks good. I’m sure adamsapple point is in good faith, you have to follow these things over time to know if there’s more context. Truth is, isn’t a lot of info on one side or the other published. At the end of the day, companies that choose to take a deal to be on a sub be it game pass or PS+ Do so on their own volition, so in theory they deem it in their interests.
And when sony does it, it suddenly becomes bad, kinda like fanboys forging their opinion based on supposed gotcha.Gamepass is like VRR, when Sony does it, it will be a good thing
And it is not even an "Xbox is mean" jab since the game sold so little on Xbox it is also totally understandable from Ms point of view.Smh some of you lack reading comprehension? It's obvious what he's saying. Because gampass is heavily engraved into Xbox customers, games like this don't stand a chance of making money unless they get paid to be on gamepass by MS, hence why hes saying Gamepass or bust.
Since nobody is buying the game on Xbox they see no reason to waste their money updating it .
Either you pay for quality, or you get a game half done and with anemic content aka Halo.I’ll take Game Pass over increasing prices of games. We are also in a global inflation period.
Game Pass is forcing devs to realize games cost too much. Meanwhile Sony increased the price of their games to let game budgets balloon even more.
jezus how the hell do you even post this after the delays from bethesdaEither you pay for quality, or you get a game half done and with anemic content aka Halo.
You get over blown games like Crackdown 3.
I don't like paying $70, but I'll tell you what I paid $15 for 3 months of gamepass ultimate on PC and felt the $70 game gave me the more polished Experience.
And its not like I have the time or money to buy every $70 game or play every game on Gamepass. I'm selective with what I play because of my Job/work-life balance. And everytime I play a first party from Sony most of the time I'm not regretting my time.
2 different world. People are still stuck in the past gen.jezus how the hell do you even post this after the delays from bethesda
jezus how the hell do you even post this after the delays from bethesda
What?so your point falls on bethesda, but bethesda=MS.
Besides did you look at the amount of devs MS has outside of bets versus the others you mentioned? no ofcourse not because that would be not logical
MS had stalker 2 for this April. It got delayed. They had redfall, which got delayed. FM is coming this year, which is waiting for announcement. Starfield was coming this November.What? Lets call a spade a spade shall we?
Microsoft has very little for the rest of their slate. Literally outside of drops like Guadians, and MLB the show, January, February, March, APril, May, June, July?
Like drops like Tunic are great, but dont move the needle in terms of making people want an xbox let alone sign up for Gamepass. It goes deeper than just that though.
Issues with RARE, INTITIATIVE, UNDEAD LABS, 343, and Playground Games Fable taking longer than expected because all they have made are car sim/arcade racers.
Sorry but this has been a large talking point and the recent Purchase of Activision/Blizzard kind of shows now more than ever why they bought them.
I actually don't think Bethesda pushing back Redfall and Starfield has anything to do with Microsoft.
Bethesda runs itself and governs itself. It's business as usual.
But when it comes to a curated slate for the year, let alone for a growth sector service such as gamepass. They are missing the mark entirely, and many other publishers are able to put out games? Capcom isn't having the issues they have, Square(Japan) studios are not having issues producing games. Sony isn't having issues producing games.
But anything they seem to manage, they seem to always fumble.
VRR is special since you can’t see what it does without using it, can’t show an even 43 fps screen update on a 60fps video, people just don’t have a clue how much it improves the smoothness, and VRR TVs are expensive too. It’s a difficult tech to sell.Gamepass is like VRR, when Sony does it, it will be a good thing
This Is what i don't understand....Keep trying to make game pass look bad.