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[Vieo]

Was the Balrog working for Sauron?

In the movie, when they were inside the mines of moria(sp?) and got surrounded by like 1,000 orcs(or were those goblins), when the orcs heard the Balrog, they all scattered.

If I remember correctly from the book, that scene went down a bit differently. Gandalf had everyone go ahead of him down those stairs(the ones that were crumbling in the movie) while he stood at the top of the stairs to hold them(orcs & balrog) off. He used a spell to blast some of the orcs, but had to collapse(I think) the passage. When he met up with his party a moment later, he said something about almost meeting his match back there because something(Balrog?) reflected/warded one of his spells, which is probably why he tried to close of the passage.

Anyway, the movie and the book seem to show differently. In the movie, the orcs ran away when they could have easily swarmed and killed them. In the book, they stuck around and seemingly worked in conjunction with the Balrog to give pursuit. This has led me to some confusion. Was the Balrog working for Sauron or was he just a random hazzard they had to overcome like Oldman Willow, the Barrow Wights, or the giant spider(sheklob?) thing?

 

[bud]

Sorry to rob your thread but what ever happened to Saruman?

He didn't even make an appearence in the last movie.

 

[BocoDragon]

Sorry to rob your thread but what ever happened to Saruman?

He didn't even make an appearence in the last movie.

He was resolved in the Extended Edition.

 

[Cheebs]

He didn't even make an appearence in the last movie.

Watch the extended verison. He is in it.

 

[bud]

So what happens to him in the extended version?

Spoil it for me please.

 

[Vieo]

Sorry to rob your thread but what ever happened to Saruman?

He didn't even make an appearence in the last movie.

From the book, the way I see it, he was confined to his Tower. He threw that Sauron-communication Orb down at Gandalf at the end of their heated debate and went back in his tower. The Tree Ents were posted up outside and there were pissed that he chopped down all those trees. My guess would be they rooted themselves around the Tower and if he ever came outside again, they'd kill him. :lol

Maybe he starved to death?

Edit: What happened then? =)

 

[7Th]

No, the Barlog wasn't working for Sauron, he's an ancient beast that remained underground after the ancient war.

Sorry to rob your thread but what ever happened to Saruman?

He didn't even make an appearence in the last movie.

 

[7Th]

No, the Barlog wasn't working for Sauron, he's an ancient beast that remained underground after the ancient war.

Sorry to rob your thread but what ever happened to Saruman?

He didn't even make an appearence in the last movie.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Sorry to rob your thread but what ever happened to Saruman?

He didn't even make an appearence in the last movie.

extended edition FTW.

 

[Tritroid]

Anyway, the movie and the book seem to show differently. In the movie, the orcs ran away when they could have easily swarmed and killed them. In the book, they stuck around and seemingly worked in conjunction with the Balrog to give pursuit. This has led me to some confusion. Was the Balrog working for Sauron or was he just a random hazzard they had to overcome like Oldman Willow, the Barrow Wights, or the giant spider(sheklob?) thing?

The orcs do continue to give chase in the movie too though, just not alongside the Balrog. Remember them shooting arrows across the cliff at the fellowship?

 

[Cheebs]

 

[7Th]

From the book, the way I see it, he was confined to his Tower. He threw that Sauron-communication Orb down at Gandalf at the end of their heated debate and went back in his tower. The Tree Ents were posted up outside and there were pissed that he chopped down all those trees. My guess would be they rooted themselves around the Tower and if he ever came outside again, they'd kill him. :lol

Maybe he starved to death?

Edit: What happened then? =)

He get's killed by Wormtongue while trying to conquer the Shire in revenge for Isengard.

 

[Callo Merlose]

Maybe, since it's coming was hailed by so many orcs. What I thought was so cool and they should've just mentioned in the movie was that a balrog is a dragon tamer. A freaking dragon tamer. Hence the whips. But I guess there's a relaton somehow since it was a creature of fire, and fire = bad (at least on middle-earth).

 

[iapetus]

He was resolved in the book.

Fixed to prevent JRRT revolving in his grave.

 

[DCharlie]

there is more than 1 balrog apparently.

 

[Vieo]

He get's killed by Wormtongue while trying to conquer the Shire in revenge for Isengard.

I think I skipped that part of the book. I was pretty burned out as I tried reading all the way through like two weeks before the movie came out. I remember Frodo went back to the Shire, there were some people at a gate, they wouldn't let him in and a big fight broke out. I skipped over that and the last thing I remember is him, Bilbo, Gandalf and the Elf King/Queen getting on a boat and sailing away. I guess if I kept reading, I would have found out who was behind it. =P

Wormtongue was that creepy guy who kept whispering things in that king's ear to control him and keep his mind adled, right?

I guess that ties in with the whole thing Gandalf said about not being so quick to kill Gollum. He let that guy live because he knew he still had a part to play. Wouldn't that mean Gandalf had psychic powers?

 

[mrmyth]

Maybe, since it's coming was hailed by so many orcs. What I thought was so cool and they should've just mentioned in the movie was that a balrog is a dragon tamer. A freaking dragon tamer. Hence the whips. But I guess there's a relaton somehow since it was a creature of fire, and fire = bad (at least on middle-earth).

The balrog was a Maiar just like Gandalf. They were equal in power, which is why the fight lasted so long.

I've always thought of the balrog as a grumpy old fart who didn't want anyone on his lawn.

 

[ckohler]

To quote the Encyclopedia of Arda:

The Balrogs originated as Maiar, beings of the same kind as Sauron (edit: and Gandolf and Saurman). They were primordial spirits of fire that had allied themselves with Melkor (Sauron's old master) in ancient times, and became the most feared of his servants. There seem to have been relatively few of them - probably no more than seven.

Most of the Balrogs were destroyed in war, but some escaped and hid in Middle-earth. Durin's Bane, the creature that drove the Dwarves from Moria, was one of these.

In other words, no, the balrog in Moria did not work for Sauron. Even if he did, the Moria gobblins had just as much to fear from him as the fellowship did. It would not hesitate to smash a few goblins in its way.

 

[Callo Merlose]

I don't think he could read the future, but maybe he could sense the struggle of Gollum's dual nature. He's a wizard, after all.

 

[Naked Snake]

LotR sucks cause there are no dragons.

Make The Hobbit movie!

 

[Amir0x]

there is more than 1 balrog apparently.

Servants of Melkor

It's a shame Tolkien didn't get to write even more books about this world, we'll never know the complete history of so many things.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The Balrog wasn't working for him. If you remember, Gandalf did not want to go through the mines of Moria unless it was the last resort. The reason he didn't want to go in was because of the Balrog. The dwarves accidentily freed the Balrog during their greedy mining.


In the book, Wormtail kills Saruman. He slits his throat after the Froda frees the Shire.

 

[Fuzzy]

LotR sucks cause there are no dragons.

Make The Hobbit movie!

They already did.

 

[ckohler]

I have a question... why did Suaron not see Bilbo wearing the One Ring at his birthday party? He takes it off with a laugh like it was no big deal. Not to mention all the times he wore it in The Hobbit.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I have a question... why did Suaron not see Bilbo wearing the One Ring at his birthday party? He takes it off with a laugh like it was no big deal. Not to mention all the times he wore it in The Hobbit.

Sauron was imprisoned during the Hobbit. He wasn't able to reform.

With Bilbo during the beginning of LOTR, Sauron still hadn't reformed. The movie makes it seem like Frodo left right after Bilbo went on his journey. In the book, years go by before this happens. Shortly after Gandalf discovers that Bilbo's ring was indeed the One Ring (at Gondor), he searches for Gollum with Aragorn. They don't find him, and Gandalf then hurries back to the Shire to warn Frodo.

I can't remember how much time went by.

 

[SpoonyBard]

15 years passed before Frodo left Shire. The movie doesn't show this at all.

 

[Solo]

Was the Balrog working for Sauron?

Yeah, and for minimum wage no less! What a bum rap!

 

[PhoenixDark]

15 years passed before Frodo left Shire. The movie doesn't show this at all.

Yeah, 15 years; I always think it was 10.

It's quite understandable why Jackson decided to skip that, and I agree with the decision. Overall the movies were near perfect. The only thing that TOTALLY pissed me off was Aragorn's cliche "death" in Two Towers. WTF was that?!?!?

 

[Solo]

The thing that pissed me off the most was Jackson's incessant use of slow mo for "dramatic effect", non-stop "grand, sweeping" camera movements (hold the f'in' camera still for a shot, Pete) and the editing.

But, given that he mostly was successful in adapting a book that was thought impossible, I give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SpoonyBard]

How about the ghost army? Those guys could have taken out the whole Mordor without loss of human/elf/hobbit life.

edit:
I liked the movies, especially the first. Things moved a bit too quickly in the other two, and it felt like they ran from one action scene to an other. Maybe they should have done four movies instead.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The thing that pissed me off the most was Jackson's incessant use of slow mo for "dramatic effect", non-stop "grand, sweeping" camera movements (hold the f'in' camera still for a shot, Pete) and the editing.

The slow motion sucked in many cases; this was also done to terrible effect in King Kong.

The sweeping camera movements were fine with me, considering they just showed off the beautiful level of cinematography New Zealand offered. Beautiful.

Jackson is amazing, and what he did with LOTR is truly amazing.

 

[Solo]

The sweeping camera movements were fine with me, considering they just showed off the beautiful level of cinematography New Zealand offered. Beautiful.

Oh, I dont mind the shots, its just that they were terribly overused. It was like the movie was screaming "look at me, I AM EPIC!" I think had he used fewer of these shots, they would have had greater effect. Instead, he used them almost once each scene.

 

[Fuzzy]

15 years passed before Frodo left Shire. The movie doesn't show this at all.

3001 - Bilbo's feast
3018 - Frodo leaves the Shire

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

A couple of things to comment on.

First, the Balrog. At one time, there were hundreds, if not thousands of them in the ranks of the Army of Melkor/Morgoth. They are just as powerful as Sauron, but not driven the same way that he is. Sauron was a mere Lieutenant to Morgoth, and he managed to escape the War of Wraith, along with some of the Balrogs and dragons, when Morgoth was finally defeated and tossed into the void by the other Valar. Compared to him, Sauron and the Balrog are mere playthings. This is all told, along with a lot more, including more of what happened to Sauron afterwards in The Silimarillion, which is not for the feint of heart.

As to why Sauron didn't see the Ring being used when Bilbo had it, he had not retaken form just yet. He was the Necromancer that is mentioned very briefly in The Hobbit, and his power had not returned completely yet. It take him years to discover where the Ring has gone, and even in Lord of the Rings, he is just returning to his power. And yes, years pass between Bilbo and Frodo leaving the Shire. In the book I thought it was 17 years, but it doesn't matter. It was a long time.

I love the movies too, but Jackson too some liberties with the story that I wish he hadn't. I understand you can't translate them completely as they did, but some things that he changed didn't need to be changed. The could have reforged Narsil before the Fellowship set out, they didn't need to make Faramir such an ass, the meeting with the Ghost Army on the Paths of the Dead ruined one of the most suspensful moments in the book, etc. Nit's to pick, but overall, I love the books and I'm very happy with the way they were interpreted into the movies.

 

[BorkBork]

For more details, read this:

It's a tough read, but a very satisfying one. It makes the war and battles from Lord of the Rings seem like tiny skirmishes.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

For more details, read this:

It's a tough read, but a very satisfying one. It makes the war and battles from Lord of the Rings seem like tiny skirmishes.

Yep! For me, the first 40 or 50 pages or so were tough going at first, then it was so mesmerizing. It's certainly not an easy read by any stretch of the imagination, but it adds so much more depth to Lord of the Rings.

 

[ghibli99]

I'm a big fan of Tolkien's original novels, and I was surprised that I ended up liking the movie adaptations... for me, I view the movies as complements to the books, not replacements. I think a literal retelling would have been boring and tedious, like the first Harry Potter film (the only one I've seen), which tried so hard to simply be the book on film. It was a snore-fest as a result. The LOTR films take the books, massage them into something that works better on-screen in terms of pacing, and provides something that is, for the most part, pretty faithful to the source material. I liked the extended versions of TFOTR and TTT much better than TROTK for some reason, especially the Denethor scene in TTT, which adds so much texture and depth to Faramir's later scenes in the film... it makes you really wonder what they were thinking when it was removed! TROTK's extended version scenes didn't really add all that much, and the scenes I was looking forward to the most (like the Houses of Healing) didn't come together like I thought they would. +1 anyway, though, since those extended edition box sets are just a treasure trove of information. Anyway, sorry to further this thread down the well-trodden book vs. movie road...

 

[Solo]

The only one of the movies I really loved, and will still love in 20 years, is The Fellowship of the Ring. The other two were also quite good, but didnt contain the character development, heart, sense of wonder or emotion that the first film did for me. Ill be damned if I didnt get a lil' misty eyed when Gandalf "died".

 

[Kuramu]

i've always wondered... why didn't wearing the one ring make Sauron invisible in the opening sequence of tFotR? Also, for an uber ring, it doesn't seem to do much

 

[BorkBork]

The only one of the movies I really loved, and will still love in 20 years, is The Fellowship of the Ring. The other two were also quite good, but didnt contain the character development, heart, sense of wonder or emotion that the first film did for me. Ill be damned if I didnt get a lil' misty eyed when Gandalf "died".

Yeah it's no contest really: FOTR>>> ROTK>>>>>>>>> TTT. The Two Towers really aged pretty badly in my eyes. I tried to watch it on TV the other day, but the awful cutting back and forth and the character change to Faramir made it hard to sit through.

 

[timmy]

Watch the extended verison. He is in it.

I agree with the second part.

 

[MagicJackBauer]

i've always wondered... why didn't wearing the one ring make Sauron invisible in the opening sequence of tFotR? Also, for an uber ring, it doesn't seem to do much

In the books Sauron wasn't able to take physical form in that battle. Him not being invisible was a loophole by PJ I bet.

 

[ckohler]

i've always wondered... why didn't wearing the one ring make Sauron invisible in the opening sequence of tFotR?

The Rings of Power (except the Three made by the Elves) made their wearers invisible by shifting them mostly into the Unseen world. But Sauron already lived in that world as a Maia, an “angelic” spirit. His material body was something deliberately put on, as we put on clothes. Sauron was naturally pure spirit, not a hybrid like mortals, Elves, and Dwarves.

 

[MrNibbles]

Didn't the movies completely cut out a main character that was in the books? (I haven't read that shit in ages.)

Tolkien stuff annoys the crap out of me. I just can't stand all the hyperbole.

It's like he felt he had to explain EVERYTHING in extreme detail, creating a lush world of blah blah blah. All he ends up doing is creating an ill-defined world with dozens of OMG SO AMAING/MAGICAL/POWERFUL creatures and races and points in the world's history.

The Hobbit is much better than the Lord of the Rings, in my opinion.
It presents much more of a clear cut story in a universe than Lord of the Rings.
Lord of the Rings tries to present the entire universe through a story, only to say "HA! That's just one PART of the universe!!"

The Lord of the Rings totally reminds me of a comic book (in terms of the way it's presented, NOT characters, settings, story, etc.)

The thing that pisses me off most about LotR though is the (re-)emergence of the Sci-Fi & Fantasy genre.
Honestly.
Sci-Fi
Fantasy
Two separate things. They can blend, yes. But so can Sci-Fi and action, or comedy, etc.

Ever since the LotR started making a buzz, people jumped on the "Sci-Fi & Fantasy as a Single Genre" bandwagon. I know tons of people who say that LotR is Sci-Fi & Fantasy. Not fantasy.
Shit, just call the genre NERD if you must. Dungeons and Dragons, conventions, and all that dwarfy elfy shit is fine by me, just don't make me wade through it when I look for my hard science fiction.

I don't want to be browsing for a good sci-fi book and have to hear a heated debate over the differences between mythril and admantium.

Oh, and I hate the whole "our movie was over three hours long already, but here's the longer, REAL version on DVD" shit.

Fuck the movies anyway. Not that great. The books were better. Not "Dune the book compared to Dune the movie" better, but better. (Though I didn't care for the books much, I can still tell they're better than the movies.)

 

[Eric_S]

i've always wondered... why didn't wearing the one ring make Sauron invisible in the opening sequence of tFotR? Also, for an uber ring, it doesn't seem to do much

Sort of the same reason it didn't make Tom Bombadill invisible. It doesn't hold any power over him, with the caveat emptor that while Sauron holds power over the ring, Tom simply "ignores" it.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

In the books Sauron wasn't able to take physical form in that battle. Him not being invisible was a loophole by PJ I bet.

Not quite true, Sauron couldn't assume a *fair form* after being caught in the wreck of Numenor; in the battle of the Last Alliance (the one in the Fellowship movie prologue) Sauron killed both Elendil and Gil-galad, and though Tolkien never explicitly stated what form he took in the battle it's generally assumed it's the Dark Lord form (Gil-gallad was killed by Sauron's heat)

Where the movie differs is that Sauron was sufficiently incapacitated in that battle to allow Isildur to cut the ring from Sauron's hand - it was the loss of the Ring that prohibited Sauron from taking physical shape, and if he was to get it back, he'd be able to take the 'Dark Lord' physical form again.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

And the Ring did a lot more than just turn someone invisible, that just happens to be one of the things it did with mortal creatures like Hobbits and Men. It also gave them prolonged life. But in the hands of Sauron, it allowed him to control the wills of his servents, influence mortals, and more. Tolkien doesn't go into great detail about this, but the Ring has a lot more power when controlled by Sauron. Sauron actually forged the Ring, and in doing so, put a lot of his own power in side of it. It allowed him to focus his power more directly. And once the Ring was destroyed, Sauron didn't die with it, he just lost the ability to take physical form any longer.

Gollumsluvslave summed it up very well in regards to his physical forms in earlier points in history.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

It makes the war and battles from Lord of the Rings seem like tiny skirmishes.

Indeed - can you imagine how insane The Battle of Unnumbered Tears or the War of Wrath would be.

To be honest although The Silmarillion is far more unsuited to film medium than even LOTR, there are just so many scenes in it that would be amazing

My favourite would probably be Hurin slaying the 70 trolls before being captured in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad - kind of fitting for an internet forum as well :lol

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Indeed - can you imagine how insane The Battle of Unnumbered Tears or the War of Wrath would be.

To be honest although The Silmarillion is far more unsuited to film medium than even LOTR, there are just so many scenes in it that would be amazing

My favourite would probably be Hurin slaying the 70 trolls before being captured in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad - kind of fitting for an internet forum as well :lol

I'd love to see Fingolfin doing battle with Morgoth before the Gates of Angband or the Slaying of Glaurung by Turin would be an amazing battle as well.

 

[master_shake_05]

HIJACK -- Does the Extended Edition feature the scenes where, upon arrival in the Shire, the Hobbits find that the village has been invaded by pirates (or whatever... read the book a long time ago)?