mashoutposse
Ante Up
marvelharvey said:
Not to me
I eagerly await those impressions...
OPM's Enthusia demo
- Thread starter gtmax
- Start date
Not to me
I eagerly await those impressions...
I just got my copy and I am not sure about my first impresions. It seems almost easier than GT4. The DFP support does seem better with more accurate feedback. You can not lock the brakes. I am not to wild about the high speed blur on the edges of the screen though it is nice you can get rid of the frame. GT4's graphics are just a little better....barely. Sound effect seem the same. I am just a little dissapointed but the 5X better physics hype or I am just not feeling it yet.
BuckRobotron
Member
I got it yesterday. Reading "Speediapolis Ring" as a track name immediately caused a chuckle, but the game is quite competent. Cars looked very good, and the rainy night track (1 of 3 tracks in the demo) is also looking nice.
Won't be playing it much though since you can only use the face buttons for accel/brake, not the right analog stick.
Won't be playing it much though since you can only use the face buttons for accel/brake, not the right analog stick.
marvelharvey
Member
Gek54 said:
Shit, there were rumours that they dumbed the game down since TGS and if what you say is true (which I'm sure it is) then maybe those rumors were accurate. At TGS you could lock up and wheel spin like crazy. If they've messed about with the physics, then they've thrown away their main selling point.
I've still got my hopes up, maybe the demo has assists on by default? Anyway, only 9 days until we'll find out for sure... roll on March 17th!
SolidSnakex
Member
I wonder what demo it's from? The E3 demo had some negative impressions, but the later demos from TGS and car shows seem to be alot more positive.
The demo has December 2004 all over it. Just took out the 7B7 on the oval and its way too hard to get the car out of control. Full throttle at max rpm and I drop the clutch and no wheels spin. Throwing the car side to side at 180mph and nothing happens, the car sticks to the ground. BIG dissapointment. There is no way people would be all over the track with these physics. Time to change my avatar.
am cry!!!1
am cry!!!1
BuckRobotron
Member
Heh, I had tried that car out on "Speediapolis" and truly nothing could get it bent out of shape, walls, grass, it shrugged it all off. Same with the Vanquish in another track.
They should've had the option to turn off traction or stability control in this Enthusia demo to see how it compares to GT4 or Forza. As is, you can't switch things off in this demo and start plotting how you'll paint the track with rampant tail-swinging and tire patch samples like with the freed-up C6 in the Forza demo.
They should've had the option to turn off traction or stability control in this Enthusia demo to see how it compares to GT4 or Forza. As is, you can't switch things off in this demo and start plotting how you'll paint the track with rampant tail-swinging and tire patch samples like with the freed-up C6 in the Forza demo.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Thanks for the impressions, Gek54/Buck. Is this the same demo that the original poster talked about?
BuckRobotron
Member
December 2004 here also, OPM demo. The game still has potential, and certainly looks good but again the default traction/stability control kills most sampling of the sim aspects from the demo. You still need prominent braking to avoid barreling into corners (which might throw some "casuals"), but other than that it is a story of excessive automated understeer in corners and absurb stability at speed.
I just played the OPM demo(came home OPM was in mailbox), and came away... pretty unimpressed. The game looks decent enough... on 2 of the 3 tracks shown... the edge of the screen blurring is... different, as is the movement for hitting bumps and such... good sense of speed in 1st person view, average in the behind the shoulder view.. but well as Gek said it's pretty hard to lose control on the oval, and the other tracks... just gave me flashbacks to track pieces from GT3 and PGR. If anything I thought the vehicle while the look good, could like abit more... shiny? Does that make sense? And I thought we were past open cockpit vehicles without drivers? I did like the recap map that showed you pretty much everything you did during each lap, crashes, max speed, max brake, over takes, etc... reading up on the game in OPM made it sound very much like a carpg.. build up points to increase your level which in turn increases your cars stats a "predetermined level" hmmm.... definitely not competiting against GT with that last bit....
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Damn, my OPM better be in the box today, too...
RonaldoSan
Member
I think we're all getting caught up in the realistic hype. The thing is no matter how many supposedly real life race drivers say this specifik racing game is like the real thing, it never will be. I think in time developers like Polyphony will be able to implement general racing rules into their games. Until then we'll have to put the lesser critical goggles on.
pj325is said:
Because if you've ever watched even a Le Mans car race you'll know that that downforce is only generated at the right conditions... and throwing a car around sharply at 180mph should be more than enough to disrupt the generated downforce.
marvelharvey
Member
Negative opinion, negative opinion and negative opinion... things aren't looking good so far for the Enthusia demo. I just hope to god that once the full game comes out and ALL the aids are switched off... this temporary 'arcade handling nightmare' ends and we can all experience the wet-dream-like TGS physics.
Damn you Konami, don't you dare screw this up, I've been waiting too long!
Damn you Konami, don't you dare screw this up, I've been waiting too long!
pj325is said:
Here's one with a car not even being thrown around:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/motorsports/world/news/1999/06/13/lemans_bmw/lemans.html
A crash like that can simply be caused by a gust of wind coming from an unusual direction disrupting the downforce being generated.
EDIT: Want a larger downloadable Mpeg version?
http://www.hot-blooded.com/Accident_Videos/accident_videos.htm
First downloadable zip on the page.
DarienA said:
I've seen that.. but he was going over a small crest and that's not a spinout
Edit: I don't want to turn this into a long drawn out argument, because I don't really know what I'm talking about. But just for the hell of it, I'll fire up gt3 and the forza demo to see if their le mans cars can spin out at high speeds..
GT3: I couldn't find any prototype lemans cars in arcade mode, but I whipped an S class car around the oval track at about 120mph and tried to spin out by swerving from side to side. No spinout.
Forza: Leguna seca isn't very wide and doesn't have a long straight, but I was able to get the BMW up to 140 before I tried swerving around. No spinout.
Ok, I am eating my own words and yes it taste pretty good. I went back and physics are very good. If they have dumbed them down they are still better than GT4 and I am in heaven with incredible TFF support. The feeling of the front tires losing grip is much more percise and the self centering is much faster. The cars are so much fun to drive and I was actually able to get the 7B7 lose and got it spinning with ease at a lower speed. Suck it GT4!
SPEEDIAPOLIS RING:
Audi R8 Team GOH 2004 615hp MR
Toyota GT-One MR
Nissan R390 GT1 641hp MR
Mazda 787B 690hp MR
Burgerslut:
Golf R32 237hp 4WD
Audi TT Coupe 3.2 quattro Sline 247hp 4WD
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA 247HP FF
Aston Martin V12 Vanquish 460hp FR
Mercedes CLK-DTM 469HP FR
Marco Strada:
Fiat 500F 18hp RR
Smart fortwo cabrio 60HP RR
Mini Cooper S 161HP FF
Citroen Saxo VIS 118HP FF
Mazda Roadster RS-11 158HP FR
Lotus Elise III 154HP MR
Audi R8 Team GOH 2004 615hp MR
Toyota GT-One MR
Nissan R390 GT1 641hp MR
Mazda 787B 690hp MR
Burgerslut:
Golf R32 237hp 4WD
Audi TT Coupe 3.2 quattro Sline 247hp 4WD
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA 247HP FF
Aston Martin V12 Vanquish 460hp FR
Mercedes CLK-DTM 469HP FR
Marco Strada:
Fiat 500F 18hp RR
Smart fortwo cabrio 60HP RR
Mini Cooper S 161HP FF
Citroen Saxo VIS 118HP FF
Mazda Roadster RS-11 158HP FR
Lotus Elise III 154HP MR
marvelharvey
Member
By the way, regarding giving a car full lock at 180mph...
Now, I have no real life experience of this situation, I don't think I'd enjoy death, so I this is purely theory. I've been playing out the physics in my head and I'm pretty certain that the car would have so much momentum at 180mph, that a sharp rotation of the body is almost impossible due to the lack of (relative) grip, the car would just understeer (or 'push' to you US people) slowly towards the side of the track in the direction of the steer until the car hits a wall.
To add to this, the vertical sections of a Le Man car's rear wing (like this):
will keep the cars direction true (like a boat's rudder) and limit large yaw angles at higher speeds. I could of course be talking nonsense, as this is just my assumption of what would happen. However, when I got to work this morning I tried 'full lock at 180mph' in GTR and the car didn't spin and then tried the same in GPL and the car didn't spin (until I touched the grass), those two games are pretty much the pinicle of realism.
Anyway, thanks for your positive comments Gek54, my Enthusia faith has been restored.
Now, I have no real life experience of this situation, I don't think I'd enjoy death, so I this is purely theory. I've been playing out the physics in my head and I'm pretty certain that the car would have so much momentum at 180mph, that a sharp rotation of the body is almost impossible due to the lack of (relative) grip, the car would just understeer (or 'push' to you US people) slowly towards the side of the track in the direction of the steer until the car hits a wall.
To add to this, the vertical sections of a Le Man car's rear wing (like this):
will keep the cars direction true (like a boat's rudder) and limit large yaw angles at higher speeds. I could of course be talking nonsense, as this is just my assumption of what would happen. However, when I got to work this morning I tried 'full lock at 180mph' in GTR and the car didn't spin and then tried the same in GPL and the car didn't spin (until I touched the grass), those two games are pretty much the pinicle of realism.
Anyway, thanks for your positive comments Gek54, my Enthusia faith has been restored.
In the demo when you are about to hit a wall going fast the game will slow to like one frame a second for two frames and then the screen flashes white and you hear glass break then a second later the screen fades back to the game. Its so cool I will often forget about the race and to find a good wall to trigger this effect. 
shpankey
not an idiot
Well, this is all a big coincidence. Remember how I was going to head out and buy this mag for the Enthusia demo? Well, just so has it, awhile back, Wario64 posted a link to a place to get a bunch of free magazines and this one was one of them. Lo' and behold, today it came with this demo disk. Had a God of War 2nd part video and some kind of monkey video (I forget the name of the game, but it was for PSP) and some other demo's I hadn't tried yet). As for the magazine itself, it was real quality. I'm not used to a mag made of this kind of quality material. It was also really big. I mean literally, the pages were much bigger than any other mag I've seen. Nice. Anyhow, on to the Enthusia impressions.
First off... HOLY FUCKING WOW!!!!!! <<add a million more of these...
Positives:
This is one of the very few games I've ever felt to get the gas pedal right. Most games, as everyone knows, usually fuck this up royally. Including and ESPECIALLY Grant Turismo 4 (another game as bad as GT4 is RSC2 on Xbox). What I'm talking about is usually, in most games, 90% of the throttle is progammed to the fist 10% of the gas pedal (or on Xbox's controller, the right analog trigger). This makes is a lot harder to fine tune your gas manipulation. Take for instance at the start of a race, before the green flag drops, you barely touch the gas pedal or the right analog trigger (Xbox) and your car's RPM needle is burried in the redline. I mean, it's like.... what the fuck? No car does that in real life! Well, every game does it for some reason. That is, every game but Enthusia! Enthusia is one of the few games to nail this and to finally get this right. You have to really press the pedal down far to run the RPM's up. It's perfect... it's just like it is in any car you drive. I can't give enough credit to Enthusia for taking the time to get this little detail correct. Especially since lately I've been racing GT4 who gets is all fucking wrong. I hate barely touching the pedal and being at full blast. Kudos Enthusia for getting is done realisticly!
Hands down. No... HANDS FUCKING DOWN!!! this is the best force feedback implementation in any game ever. EVER. Remember the complaints how GT4 doesn't turn the wheel back on it's own when you turn it? Well, this game doesn't suffer from that. So that proves it wasn't a wheel problem (Logi DFP) but a force feedback problem. Enthusia's force feedback is sublime, smooth and has just an amazing realistic feel. The only complaint I had here was I would have liked to have felt when the front wheel pushed a little more. Anyhow.... the forces just blow GT4's out of the water and every game should strive for this kind of implementation!
Graphics... I know some in here said they're not as good as GT4's but other than the Progressive Scan bit, I'd say they are. Well, at least I thought the rain track's graphics were. The first circle track did kind if suck for graphics, but the other two tracks in the demo were quite amazing to me. I put them tit for tat with GT4.
Simulation. Yes, this game is really a simulation... but believe it or not, it's easier to drive than GT4. I think this was because they had the driving aids on, which would light up on the dashboard when appropriate. But I feel once these get turned off in the full game this will exceed GT4 and many other games. This game was almost as real as GT4 when it has it's aids on heh.
I get a distinct feeling when playing this game that reminds me of the old simulation on the PC called Viper Racing. If any of you were around back then and played it, you will know how fond everyone is of it. Well, this is better than that, but I get that same feeling for some reason. And that's aa high of a compliment as a sim racer can give another sim.
Negatives:
The rear view mirror was full of fog. Real bad like. Almost couldn't see anything in it other than fog. I guess they are doing this to help the framerate (?).
This is only a demo problem, but after you finish a race, it sends you all the way back to the demo disk main screen. Then you have to re-enter the demo again, which means extra loading screens and more time away from the masterpiece within.
Couldn't hear my tires squalling. See below.
The demo wasn't in Progressive Scan. Hopefully this changes in the full game. Not really a negative for most people, so unless you're using a digital TV, don't even sweat this at all.
Worst music ever. It was typical Japanese music, which I despise. Sounded a lot like the Sega music in their racing games; and to make matters worse, the music couldn't even be turned off.
Music couldn't even be turned down. The reason I list this separate is because it's so loud, I couldn't hear the sounds from my car. In particular, I couldn't hear any tire squalls to let me know in an audible way I was pushing it. Also, it made it tough to hit the shift points. Of course, these music negatives are almost sure to go away in the full version, so no worries really. Just a demo complaint.
The gay ass motion blurr when at speed. Think Burnout 3. Yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk!
Sumation:
In short, this thing is going to almost assuredly be better than GT4 in every single way (other than car selection). The force feedback has to be felt to be believed. It is easily the greatest forces I've ever felt. The game is also DAMN FUN to drive, even if you're not a big simulation fan. The fact of the matter is... a simulation doesn't have to be hard. In fact, in real life, driving is not that hard as we all know. Enthusia is one of the few sims to combine the realistic aspects along with the fun aspects and really nail how a car behaves. This is a true sim and yet, I don't think arcade racing fans would be upset when racing this thing, like they are with most sims. When any gamer feels the force feedback in this game they are gonna SHIT! :lol It is mind boggling good!
First off... HOLY FUCKING WOW!!!!!! <<add a million more of these...
Positives:
This is one of the very few games I've ever felt to get the gas pedal right. Most games, as everyone knows, usually fuck this up royally. Including and ESPECIALLY Grant Turismo 4 (another game as bad as GT4 is RSC2 on Xbox). What I'm talking about is usually, in most games, 90% of the throttle is progammed to the fist 10% of the gas pedal (or on Xbox's controller, the right analog trigger). This makes is a lot harder to fine tune your gas manipulation. Take for instance at the start of a race, before the green flag drops, you barely touch the gas pedal or the right analog trigger (Xbox) and your car's RPM needle is burried in the redline. I mean, it's like.... what the fuck? No car does that in real life! Well, every game does it for some reason. That is, every game but Enthusia! Enthusia is one of the few games to nail this and to finally get this right. You have to really press the pedal down far to run the RPM's up. It's perfect... it's just like it is in any car you drive. I can't give enough credit to Enthusia for taking the time to get this little detail correct. Especially since lately I've been racing GT4 who gets is all fucking wrong. I hate barely touching the pedal and being at full blast. Kudos Enthusia for getting is done realisticly!
Hands down. No... HANDS FUCKING DOWN!!! this is the best force feedback implementation in any game ever. EVER. Remember the complaints how GT4 doesn't turn the wheel back on it's own when you turn it? Well, this game doesn't suffer from that. So that proves it wasn't a wheel problem (Logi DFP) but a force feedback problem. Enthusia's force feedback is sublime, smooth and has just an amazing realistic feel. The only complaint I had here was I would have liked to have felt when the front wheel pushed a little more. Anyhow.... the forces just blow GT4's out of the water and every game should strive for this kind of implementation!
Graphics... I know some in here said they're not as good as GT4's but other than the Progressive Scan bit, I'd say they are. Well, at least I thought the rain track's graphics were. The first circle track did kind if suck for graphics, but the other two tracks in the demo were quite amazing to me. I put them tit for tat with GT4.
Simulation. Yes, this game is really a simulation... but believe it or not, it's easier to drive than GT4. I think this was because they had the driving aids on, which would light up on the dashboard when appropriate. But I feel once these get turned off in the full game this will exceed GT4 and many other games. This game was almost as real as GT4 when it has it's aids on heh.
I get a distinct feeling when playing this game that reminds me of the old simulation on the PC called Viper Racing. If any of you were around back then and played it, you will know how fond everyone is of it. Well, this is better than that, but I get that same feeling for some reason. And that's aa high of a compliment as a sim racer can give another sim.
Negatives:
The rear view mirror was full of fog. Real bad like. Almost couldn't see anything in it other than fog. I guess they are doing this to help the framerate (?).
This is only a demo problem, but after you finish a race, it sends you all the way back to the demo disk main screen. Then you have to re-enter the demo again, which means extra loading screens and more time away from the masterpiece within.
Couldn't hear my tires squalling. See below.
The demo wasn't in Progressive Scan. Hopefully this changes in the full game. Not really a negative for most people, so unless you're using a digital TV, don't even sweat this at all.
Worst music ever. It was typical Japanese music, which I despise. Sounded a lot like the Sega music in their racing games; and to make matters worse, the music couldn't even be turned off.
Music couldn't even be turned down. The reason I list this separate is because it's so loud, I couldn't hear the sounds from my car. In particular, I couldn't hear any tire squalls to let me know in an audible way I was pushing it. Also, it made it tough to hit the shift points. Of course, these music negatives are almost sure to go away in the full version, so no worries really. Just a demo complaint.
The gay ass motion blurr when at speed. Think Burnout 3. Yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk!
Sumation:
In short, this thing is going to almost assuredly be better than GT4 in every single way (other than car selection). The force feedback has to be felt to be believed. It is easily the greatest forces I've ever felt. The game is also DAMN FUN to drive, even if you're not a big simulation fan. The fact of the matter is... a simulation doesn't have to be hard. In fact, in real life, driving is not that hard as we all know. Enthusia is one of the few sims to combine the realistic aspects along with the fun aspects and really nail how a car behaves. This is a true sim and yet, I don't think arcade racing fans would be upset when racing this thing, like they are with most sims. When any gamer feels the force feedback in this game they are gonna SHIT! :lol It is mind boggling good!
SolidSnakex
Member
The official site just updated
http://www.konamistudio.co.jp/enthusia/eng/top/index.html
They updated the car selection, courses, Search Engine, and Driving Revolution sections.
http://www.konamistudio.co.jp/enthusia/eng/top/index.html
They updated the car selection, courses, Search Engine, and Driving Revolution sections.
marvelharvey
Member
SolidSnakex said:
Cool, they've got two London tracks (the Victoria ones)
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I've been playing this a bit myself, and I actually don't like it very much. I'll go into detail some other time, as now...I'm way too tired.
DarienA said:
That would be cool and actually appropriate. In cockpit view it's to make the player feel he's behind the windshield so PLEASE dirty the thing up.
When there's fucking drops in the screen when i'm on chase view it's not immersive. It removes the feeling of being in the game ( in the car ) the drops reminding you that you're behind some glass then that you are a fucking camera.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Shpankey, what FF whell have you been using? The GT3 or the GT4 one?
Darien, I think Colin rally games have that.
Darien, I think Colin rally games have that.
I too hope the motion blur can be toggled off. Im sure its there for everyone that complained that GT3 had no sense of speed. I can look past it but I would prefer to do with out it.
I just tried the demo with the DualShock2 and its not very enjoyable at all, playable but it feels very limiting. Its DFP + Enthusia or nothing, though I am not sure about the old wheel. This is the only thing I could imagine that caused the low Famitsu score.
I just tried the demo with the DualShock2 and its not very enjoyable at all, playable but it feels very limiting. Its DFP + Enthusia or nothing, though I am not sure about the old wheel. This is the only thing I could imagine that caused the low Famitsu score.
Gek54 said:
Well maybe people that aren't use playing with a wheel should not stop from playing/buying. I'm one of those who never plays with a wheel (cause they always have been so shitty except that last logiteck one) and i don't see a problem in Enthusia. The game looks like great fun. I'm curious about the point system, can't wait to play the Enthusia mode to see if it's well mode.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
A little detail as to why I don't like Enthusia very much.
1) The sense of speed is lacking. The game feels like it's moving slower than GT3 used to; it feels lifeless, almost.
2) It's so boring, visually. There's nothing ugly about the graphics, it's just that: the lighting is painfully dull and average. The background detail absolutely pales to GT4. And the car detail, while great, suffers as a result because of the dull lighting. Once again, game looks/feels lifeless.
3) The game's physics...rather, the way the game controls is once again: lifeless. Playing the demo with the Dual Shock is stupidly unresponsive. The demo forces you to use the face buttons to accelerate and brake, and if that ends up being the case for the final I will be mighty pissed; particularly because I have to put some pressure on the X button for the gas pedal to depress completely. Every car feels the same when you attempt to steer it -- like a big brick, and the reason behind that is the unresponsive controls.
4) The DFP still isn't being used properly, neither here or GT4. Using the DFP with either game feels like you're driving a car without power steering. I've driven a car where the power steering gear and belt were completely shot -- and the DFP feels almost exactly like this. What's worse is that, maybe at speeds of 70+ taking turns should require some muscle, but not when you're taking a turn going 20 or even 10. When the car is idle, the DFP is easy as cake to spin. But as soon as you touch the gas, it locks up and requires some force to turn -- stupid. Konami should implement a system where from 10-40 the steering wheel feels light and easy, from 40-60 it feels a little tigher and from 70+ it feels very tight. Alas, they didn't and the wheel is still useless to me for both games, GT4 and Enthusia.
This demo of Enthusia gets a big thumbs down from me. GT4 just feels just feels more right, where as Enthusia is trying to be so realistic that it's practically embelishing the concept of realism - it also doesn't help that the controls on both ends (pad and wheel) suck.
1) The sense of speed is lacking. The game feels like it's moving slower than GT3 used to; it feels lifeless, almost.
2) It's so boring, visually. There's nothing ugly about the graphics, it's just that: the lighting is painfully dull and average. The background detail absolutely pales to GT4. And the car detail, while great, suffers as a result because of the dull lighting. Once again, game looks/feels lifeless.
3) The game's physics...rather, the way the game controls is once again: lifeless. Playing the demo with the Dual Shock is stupidly unresponsive. The demo forces you to use the face buttons to accelerate and brake, and if that ends up being the case for the final I will be mighty pissed; particularly because I have to put some pressure on the X button for the gas pedal to depress completely. Every car feels the same when you attempt to steer it -- like a big brick, and the reason behind that is the unresponsive controls.
4) The DFP still isn't being used properly, neither here or GT4. Using the DFP with either game feels like you're driving a car without power steering. I've driven a car where the power steering gear and belt were completely shot -- and the DFP feels almost exactly like this. What's worse is that, maybe at speeds of 70+ taking turns should require some muscle, but not when you're taking a turn going 20 or even 10. When the car is idle, the DFP is easy as cake to spin. But as soon as you touch the gas, it locks up and requires some force to turn -- stupid. Konami should implement a system where from 10-40 the steering wheel feels light and easy, from 40-60 it feels a little tigher and from 70+ it feels very tight. Alas, they didn't and the wheel is still useless to me for both games, GT4 and Enthusia.
This demo of Enthusia gets a big thumbs down from me. GT4 just feels just feels more right, where as Enthusia is trying to be so realistic that it's practically embelishing the concept of realism - it also doesn't help that the controls on both ends (pad and wheel) suck.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I gave valid reasons. I'm more than capable in completing the courses. I can adjust to the game without a problem, it's just that the game just isn't very good as far as the demo is concerned.
