Dick Jones
Banned
Is the game any good? I heard loads of great stuff prior to release (demo) and heard it had a great launch. Here, there are alot of negative comments.
Outrider developer People Can Fly haven’t been paid royalties
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Let's be real. This is just make believe. If they wanted to know they could ask, demand, and threaten if need be to get the info.
This is just attention whoring shit. Spare us. You've worked long enough in the industry to avoid a made up scenario like this.
Game sucked, just like your past Games, and it is what it is.
This is just attention whoring shit. Spare us. You've worked long enough in the industry to avoid a made up scenario like this.
Game sucked, just like your past Games, and it is what it is.
Alandring
Member
People Can Fly is developing a new game for Square Enix so no, they don't have a bad relationship. But Outriders is basically dead (only 1322 average players in the last 30 days).
If you need to sell 3M units to be profitable and you sell 2.5M in the first week, you're happy (and you tell it). But if you only sell 100k more units in the next three months, you're still not profitable.
Outriders had a really great launch, better than I expected, but it also had technical issues and shows really weak legs. So even if it launchs was great, I totally believe that it's still not profitable.
VolticArchangel
Member
Sounds like SE gave them the koolaid in the form of their usual overprotected sales estimates.
They got the PlayStation and PC sales, and on top of it, that fat Gamepass cheque which should have covered most of their dev and marketing costs.
So, yo Square Enix:
They got the PlayStation and PC sales, and on top of it, that fat Gamepass cheque which should have covered most of their dev and marketing costs.
So, yo Square Enix:
Pull n Pray
Banned
Not necessarily. Nothing in this story explicitly contradicts what is in the other. It could be true that Outriders got off to a good start and had a 3.5 million player base but also has yet to turn a profit.Interesting. This piece of information contradicts earlier statements that Square-Enix was happy with the sales of the game and the amount MS paid them for placement on GamePass.
Square Enix pleased with Outriders sales and praises Xbox Game Pass' ability to build an install base
Square Enix is pretty pleased with how Outriders is performing.www.vg247.com
Someone's telling fibs. And I'll bet a Coke Zero it's the accountants.
Look. I enjoyed Outriders for what it was. But for sure it wasn't game with 200 million budget.
According to SteamDB estimates, Outriders sold 1-2,65 million copies only on PC. Have Xbox a PS on top of it and only possible explanation for this game being in red is mismanagement of Square. It would not be for first time...
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
That's what it's looking like; I'm guessing Microsoft pays the publisher for GamePass deals but if the developer is not also the publisher then what cut of that GP money deal the dev gets depends on the terms their publisher set.I wonder if the royalty agreement between Square and People Can Fly factored in Gamepass or if it only relied on sales. That would be a pretty dick move on Square's part to intentionally have the game underperform from a sales perspective by including it on Gamepass.
Square's contract people:
I'm basically gonna be repeating what I've seen several other people in the thread already mention one way or another, but maybe there's a nugget or two I can throw in that adds to the conversation.
It looks like Square-Enix have screwed over People Can Fly with this deal by basing royalties only on sales copies (probably for a fixed early time period, as that's when games retain full MSRP) and not on any GamePass metrics or even just a part of the money for getting it in GamePass Microsoft paid Square-Enix.
Microsoft can't force publishers to pay their developers any portion of paid monies for GamePass deals; OTOH GamePass supposedly creates more sales for most games rather than less. If it didn't have an effect in this game's case (I'm not saying it didn't, I'm not gonna automatically assume it did have effect either, tho, considering there's no evidence to support that), then the only other answer is SE set the sales target too high even factoring PS and PC into it.
So basically SE's contract deals with devs seems almost as slimy as R* constantly re-releasing the same games over and over for a decade, and it's no coincidence both publishers had two of the worst E3 conferences this year
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
PropellerEar
Member
If anything in the article is true there are some problems between the publisher and the studio.
Sander Cohen
Member
FF XVI really needs to make SE great again, I can't stand watching them like this. They can't catch a break!
Sygma
Member
It's a pretty solid game, unironically. Hope the devil isn't in the details for pcf
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Whatever happened to People Can Fly's Witchfire or whatever it was called? It was supposed to be a spiritual successor to Painkiller.
Dabaus
Banned
Gamespass hurt sales on Xbox and PlayStation fans saw that Xbox dudes were getting it for free so they didn't buy it at all. That and it was sort of buggy from what I have heard.
Remember when Xbox influencers were touting outriders as a model of success for gamespass?
Remember when Xbox influencers were touting outriders as a model of success for gamespass?
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Teh Chosen Juan
Member
couldn't get over the half ass graphics, janky animations, clunky aiming enough even to get into the "whoa look how cool their loot system is" part. and the bland open space with barriers to hide behind level design. but hey, good on them. better than i could do i guess.
CitizenZ
Banned
Why the two orders Col. ? EVERY GP thread I am told Gamepass WAS the reason games were selling. Now, you* are saying its not? Which is it?
*not you specifically
Dabaus
Banned
I'm saying the game bombed, at least on Xbox, because of gamespass.Why the two orders Col. ? EVERY GP thread I am told Gamepass WAS the reason games were selling. Now, you* are saying its not? Which is it?
*not you specifically
JerryinSoCal
Member
Oh yeah I don't blame it being on GP for it's sales problems, that was the only guaranteed money they got really I just don't see that 2-3 million sales number they are estimating being realistic based on the fact that the majority of it's sales were going to come from PlayStation and PC. If it weren't on GP and they sold copies on xbox as well MAYBE 2 million would be realistic but it wasn't a high profile game, it had issues at launch and the demo didn't exactly light the world on fire. I do think Square should have to share their sales data with them though I can't imagine that's not in their agreement somewhere.
WitchHunter
Banned
To be honest I don't really know what's happening with People Can Fly. Are they mazochists or what the actual fuck? A fn good developer. Painkiller was great, Bulletstorm even better. Engine kicked ass, idea was new, fresh, had strength and visuals were above the competition. EA somehow (ACCIDENTALLY) fckd up the ad campaign/swept it under the rug. There was some fuckery with Epic Games too. Now this with Square Enix. So what the actual fuck? Why don't they do a kickstarter with a Painkiller/Bulletstorm combo, hire a voice actor with earth shattering vocals and fuck everyone in the ass?
bender
What time is it?
Outriders is so generic and boring but their loot system and customization was top notch. It's too bad nothing else in the game managed to be above average.
I'm sorry, are you telling us PlayStation owners didn't buy a game because Xbox owners got the same game for "free". (They didn't)
do you not see how pathetic that sounds? And you are celebrating it? Seriously, what is wrong with you?
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Negotiator101
Member
Calm down dear
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
It's by The Astronauts, like the Vanishing of Ethan Carter.
The Astronauts – We are the spacefaring types
ChuckeRearmed
Member
These days Square Enix is really in a bad shape. Not surprising if it is gonna be bought within 2 years.
Chukhopops
Member
Page 2 and people are already blaming GamePass without a shred of evidence and saying SE lied about sales numbers (for what reason exactly is never explained).
The sales numbers are consistent with the reviews on Steam and SteamSpy data, the issue most likely has nothing to do with GamePass.
I really need to update this old image for the new wave of concerns...
The sales numbers are consistent with the reviews on Steam and SteamSpy data, the issue most likely has nothing to do with GamePass.
I really need to update this old image for the new wave of concerns...
Hargate
Member
Nah, we need to stop rewarding failure.
Hargate
Member
OK, to clarify the issue I have with PCF.
The game only lets you have 4 characters, because of their badly coded game all 4 of my slots were locked out with characters that could neither be logging in or deleted. I had a copy of a game that I could only look at the character select for over a month.
After a month People Can Fly's response was Just wait longer.
PCF go bankrupt for all I care and I'll enjoy that show the entire time.
The game only lets you have 4 characters, because of their badly coded game all 4 of my slots were locked out with characters that could neither be logging in or deleted. I had a copy of a game that I could only look at the character select for over a month.
After a month People Can Fly's response was Just wait longer.
PCF go bankrupt for all I care and I'll enjoy that show the entire time.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Nope. It charted at #3 on Xbox during release month (NPD).
Captain Toad
Banned
Let me get this straight. People Can Fly agreed to get paid on the game's profit margin, yet the CEO himself doesn't know how much the game has sold or how much money has been made or when the profitable benchmark will be met?
It sounds like a horrible CEO. How can you not know this information? If SquareEnix won't disclose it to you, lawyers should have been involved long before now.
It sounds like a horrible CEO. How can you not know this information? If SquareEnix won't disclose it to you, lawyers should have been involved long before now.
Dabaus
Banned
#3 on xbox isnt the Same as number 3 on switch or playstation. You can be number 3 on playstation and sell 150,000 copies. #3 on xbox could be 30k.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
You claimed, without evidence, that the game bombed on Xbox. Considering it was free on Gamepass, it did quite well.
ZywyPL
Banned
I really need to update this old image for the new wave of concerns...
HOLY SHIT! I definitely wouldn't laugh even half as hard if I didn't knew those are the actual posts from NeoGAF xD
Dabaus
Banned
Did well for who? Certainly not Square Enix, hence this very thread.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
You claim, again without evidence.
Dabaus
Banned
We're done here.
WitchHunter
Banned
This looks promising. I'll drink 1 litre of milk just to be sure.