Support NeoGAF

[Nightengale]

I was thinking about forward compatibility regarding holding back, like today with Pro and X and no exclusives.

Pro & X are called "PS4" and XB1" for a reason. They exist to not have exclusives because they're the same family of products as their 2013 sibiling.

But Pro and X will (very likely) not be able to play PS5 and XB2 games, so that concern is hopefully moot.

But BC can definitely hold back the new generation if they have to choose a specific CPU/GPU to not break BC.

Well, you would hope that whatever BC decision they make ain't stupid enough to compromise the quality of new-gen games they can create. These companies don't exist in a silo.

 

[autoduelist]

PS4 will not stop receiving games or selling just because they announce PS5 and launch it. The buyers looking into a $149-199 PS4 deal are not the Year 1 adopters of a $399 successor. You do not want to wait until a product is considered obsolete and dead on the market before announcing a successor... it is commercial suicide for CE products.

Of course you don't wait til it's obsolete, the entire debate is about when a gen is obsolete. And those year 5 buyers don't want to be a gen behind right after they spend $200-$300. I know a lot of people are pushing for super fast gens [especially early adopters], but I don't think we're getting one.

I bought my ps4 day 1 for $400. 8 year gen = $50 a year. I'm okay with that... in fact, it's where I want it to be. Console gens are a more careful balance than many think, because while a lot of us [on forums] are ready for a console, many buyers consider it a luxury product.

 

[Fess]

If HDMI 2.1 VRR is there to catch the hiccups, why not target 30fps unlocked rather than 60fps with drops? Prettier graphics and VRR lets you have unlocked framerate and benefit from it.

(not saying they should, but they probably will - can't see 60fps suddenly being a thing, especially if the increase in performance is -relatively- small compared to previous generations)

It would be glorious to see 60fps be a thing on consoles, 30fps is the main reason why I'm a PC gamer today. It would be interesting to see devs backpedaling on how 60fps is better than 30fps with better visuals too. Insomniac who used science or something to prove that 30fps was enough. Naughty Dog's comments would be hilarious too since they already went from pro-60fps to pro-30fps this generation, seeing them go back to pro-60fps again next gen would certainly be something.

But it's not going to happen. 30fps will always be preferred on consoles since so many games are downported from PC and devs don't like to scale back the graphics more than needed.

 

[E-Cat]

Pachter is a fucking ignoramus when it comes to anything related to how hardware works. His opinion is literally worthless.

Cerny has gone on record saying that PS4 Pro is not a bridge between gens. Not sure what more proof you need.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Originally Posted by "

The PlayStation 4 Pro is better [from a technical perspective] than the PS4, so I think that’s a half step towards the PlayStation 5. I think the PS5 will be another half step.

OP, you missed the bolded, which is the important part of what Pachter is saying here.

If the Pro is a "half-step" from PS4 and the PS5 is ANOTHER half-step from the Pro, then the PS5 is a FULL step from PS4.

Understand, Pachter is not a tech guy. He's a finance guy. So he's not speaking here specifically about what technology might be used in the PS5, he's talking in general terms about the relative increase in performance.

He basically saying, "PS4 Pro is a mid-gen console, so PS5 will be a full gen console, i.e. PS5 will be a generational leap from PS4 and not a generational leap from PS4 Pro".

It's nothing we didn't already know so there's no reason for any ribbing of Pachter or faux-outrage.

Nothing really to see here at all peeps.

 

[E-Cat]

nm

 

[GlamFM]

Its is as I feared, the age of traditional generational leaps is over.

truely this is the bad dimension

I personally think this is something to look forward to.

It´s certainly better for developers and the industry to have a large install base at all times and not being bound to the typical console cycle.

 

[Caronte]

Sagittarius.

lol

 

[DerZuhälter]

Whatever Sony introduces in 2018, it won't be a new VR set or a PS5. Because a next-gen VR set basically needs the powa of PS5 anyhow.

2019 is right in their 3 year cycle, and with new tech available from AMD and memory providers they can go for a significant increase in power, compared to even XBOX One X.

That said, as we discussed in another PS5 thread already, people should not expect a 20TF / 128GB RAM monster for 399 bucks - neither in 2019 or 2020...

It will be a "new" Gen only in name I think. A 7 year cycle is way too long for this kind of hardware we have (as base). Unlike X360/PS3 the PS4/X1 wasn't even cutting edge when introduced. And we all realized it back then even and assumed after the 7 year cycle, which felt way to long, we'd get shorter cycles.

I don't think PS4pro changes anything for Sony. Xbox though is in a different (and difficult) situation. I still think we are getting a shorter cycles and more "half-steps" in terms of power. 2020 would be insanely long for PS4 hardware.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Pachter is a fucking ignoramus when it comes to anything related to how hardware works. His opinion is literally worthless.

Errr.... that's pretty fucking unreasonably harsh. There's nothing specifically wrong with what Pachter actually said here. Only the OP, shitty out of context quote in the thread title. Michael Pachter has never even presumed to know anything about tech.. He's a finance and business guy and in this case he's speaking more generally about the strategic positioning of the PS5 in relation to PS4 and the Pro.

He's basically saying the PS5 will be "ANOTHER half-step" from the Pro, meaning the PS5 will be a generational leap from the PS4 and not a generational leap from the PS4 Pro.

He's absolutely right. In fact the PS5 is highly unlikely to be a typical 10x GPU FLOPs generational leap in performance. It'll be closer to the PS4's 7-8x GPU FLOPs jump performance, with the biggest improvement being on the CPU and memory sides (assuming HBM is leveraged).

Cerny has gone on record saying that PS4 Pro is not a bridge between gens. Not sure what more proof you need.

I don't remember him saying that at all. Sony have said that the PS5 will not be an iterative console, but a full generational leap over PS4 (same as what Pachter is saying here).

 

[MilkBeard]

If it is 10TF with a new CPU, that would be a pretty good upgrade.

 

[120v]

kind of given sony will have a refresh as the decade wraps up. no real hot takes here... though 2018 is a little early if you want to set it in stone

 

[E-Cat]

He's basically saying the PS5 will be "ANOTHER half-step" from the Pro, meaning the PS5 will be a generational leap from the PS4 and not a generational leap from the PS4 Pro.

It was more of a general statement. But yeah, it does sound a bit more reasonable when you ignore the poor out of context quotes in the OP.

I don't remember him saying that at all. Sony have said that the PS5 will not be an iterative console, but a full generational leap over PS4 (same as what Pachter is saying here).

He's pretty much saying it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNSq42s9Lps#t=54s

"...nor is it (PS4P) a console that is going to blur the lines between generations."

 

[Adam_Roman]

Next gen better be fully backwards compatible. The change to an x86 architecture makes that so much easier, and it'd be nice for indie and non-AAA devs to not have to worry about building multiple versions or missing out on potential players.

 

[jelly]

PS4 Pro Slim in 2018
PS5 with next gen games and PS4 BC in 2020/21.

 

[Ghost]

I think this makes a lot of sense especially if you look at the alternative which would be Sony releasing a PS5 with a radically different architecture and no compatibility with existing games in 2020. If they did that and Microsoft released the next Xbox in a similar timeframe with similar power levels plus native (ie not emulated) support for current and future Xbox One titles (which now automatically gives them all the 360 and OG backwards compatible titles), the PS5 would be at a massive disadvantage for its entire lifecycle.

I think any kind of clean break from the current gen would end up being a disaster for whoever tried it.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

It will be a "new" Gen only in name I think. A 7 year cycle is way too long for this kind of hardware we have (as base). Unlike X360/PS3 the PS4/X1 wasn't even cutting edge when introduced. And we all realized it back then even and assumed after the 7 year cycle, which felt way to long, we'd get shorter cycles.

I don't think PS4pro changes anything for Sony. Xbox though is in a different (and difficult) situation. I still think we are getting a shorter cycles and more "half-steps" in terms of power. 2020 would be insanely long for PS4 hardware.

The 7 year cycle was a function of the general slow down in the advancement of semi-conductor manufacturing technology. As manufacturing processes drop to smaller and smaller process nodes, they become more and more expensive and take longer to develop newer process tech on smaller nodes. This means that chip manufacturers need to leverage their existing processes for longer, in order to recoup the larger and larger investments they make in developing newer and newer technology.

Anyone who's been paying attention saw the 7 year PS3/360 cycle coming from a mile away, and likewise anyone who has been paying attention sees that there was no chance in hell that the PS4/XB1 would have shorter cycle than the previous gen.. So you clearly aren't speaking for all of us when you say "we all expected shorter gens".

That said, PS5 is likely to drop in the fall 2019. The 7nm process goes into risk production this year and I think TSMCs at least are already accepting test designs. There's no reason to think Sony or MS will wait until 2020 when all signs point to the manufacturing technology being available a year earlier to provide a reasonable generational increase over PS4 performance.

 

[Infinite Xero]

1) He doesn't call PS5 a half step - only a half step from pro, so a full step from PS4
2) Saying it'll play PS pro games just means it has BC which is (hopefully) a no-brainer if they stay on x86 architecture

Nothing in this is remotely controversial, insightful or that interesting

PS4 Pro to PS5 will be a full step too though with a CPU that's multitudes faster and a GPU that will probably be 2-3x faster.

 

[Pasedo]

Considering how the talk goes in PC vs console discussions I doubt that it would be accepted by console gamers. Maybe if we have full forward and backwards compatibility but people around here don't seem to like that either if it holds back the newest gen.

I think if half step becomes a regular thing retailers will be quick to at least trial a plan/subscription model. Its all the hype these days as it guarantees repeated sales and if console manufacturers can make more money in shorter period of time they will do it. Makes sense for the gaming category also as its a very innovative industry and the rate of innovation is getting faster. Which is why a subscription model would work well for consumers as it will allow them to take advantage of the latest experiences every two years. We also know the retailer makes more money doing it this way so its a win,win,win for everyone.

 

[CyberPunked]

2019 would seem like a good time for a PS5. We can't be doing with another 7-8 year cycle like last time, it's just too long.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I can only see a PS5 arriving in 2019 if the Xbox One X has consistently strong sales, otherwise I wouldn't expect it until 2020.

Personally I prefer the shorter life cycles.

 

[brawly]

Didn't Layden literally say that the PS5 won't be a half-step a few weeks ago?

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

wtf at 200+FPS...maybe focus on 60fps first eh?

I kinda agree with him. I think it'll come out 2019 or 2020 at a push. It will be a full step up over PS4 but compared to Pro it won't be as big a step forward of course.

As long as it has a better CPU and is more powerful than XB1X and can do true native 4K without any kind of upscaling/checkerboard techniques then I'll be happy.

I would love PS4 BC. There is no reason not to...they just need to essentially build a PS4 Pro Plus that will get it's own exclusive games. It will play all PS4 games which can be updated to make use of the extra power and then call it the PS5. If you want to play PS5 games then you need a PS5.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

He's pretty much saying it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNSq42s9Lps#t=54s

"...nor is it (PS4P) a console that is going to blur the lines between generations."

I don't see the phrasing "blur the lines between generations" to mean "a half-step console" and I don't believe Cerny understands it this way either.

Normally when people in the industry have talked about "blurring the lines between generations" they're talking about subverting the traditional generational transition paradigm to move towards a more iterative approach (ala PC or smartphones). It's normally understood to be a statement towards software comparability between new and legacy hardware.

The PS4 Pro (and clearly XB1X) are clearly "mid-gen" or "half-step" consoles, because they are consoles still securely rooted in the existing console generation (i.e. having no exclusive software developed for them) but offering additional hardware performance.

A console "blurring the line between generations" would be one that is released with both backwards and forwards compatibility, meaning new software can run BOTH on the newest hardware and legacy hardware, just as legacy software can run on the newest hardware.

MS, disingenuously used this phrasing to talk about XB1X, when in actual fact they have since clarified that it is indeed an XB1. I'm under no illusion that the next Xbox (or PS5 for that matter) will be BC and FC. Both will likely be BC, but then that isn't "blurring the line between generations", since BC capable consoles aren't in any way a departure from the traditional console generational model (and BC has in fact been fairly standard up until last generation).

 

[yurinka]

I think it would be released in 2019 or -more likely- in 2020 and unlike PS4 Pro would be a real generation leap compared to base PS4 and will have exclusive game that won't run on PS4/PS4 Pro, but would be fully BC with PS4 games.

Since the main bottleneck is CPU, makes sense they'd focus their improvements there. Maybe its hardware won't be a huge leap compared to PS4 Pro or Xbox One X, but since the games will be focused in this hardware instead on PS4 the improvements will be more visible compared to the ones we saw in Pro or X.

I think they'll wait for 2020 to make sure dev teams have enough time to release a 2nd game in PS4 and can start working on PS5, in addition to provide time to the hardware team to have a powerful enough system at an affordable price, $399 (same as PS4 at launch).

Full 4K as main focus, but at 30 (high end AAA visuals, slow paced games) or 60fps (FPS MP, driving, fighting) as always. Forget 240fps. A few games may run at 8K mostly using checkerboard.

Wireless PSVR2 with a 4K panel (half for each eye, maybe even 4K per eye) and some controller to replace Move, maybe something like a Magic Leap camera attached to the HMD.

 

[*Splinter]

Hoping for 2020 $449
Expecting 2019 $399

BC will happen as it did for PS2 and early PS3 models.

Full step, half step, mid gen upgrade... All these terms mean different things to different people, I think it's quite pointless to make predictions about them.

Oh yeah and expect a lot of 4k/30... Not looking forward to the 4k upgrade at all tbh

 

[Mr. Pointy]

This is what I pretty much expect in terms of specs out of a $399US PS5 in 2019. I'm presuming Sony and AMD are aiming to use 7nm FinFET taped parts. If they're stuck with 14nm, everything goes out the window.

An AMD APU consisting of...

An AMD CPU. A Zen 2 based thing. 8 cores at the most. 6 is highly probable. Clocks probably ain't going past 3.0 GHz due to heat and packaging, though 3.2 GHz would be nice.

And an AMD GPU. Probably a RX 670 based Navi, if it's out by 2018-ish. Lowest: above 8 TFLOPS performance, highest: just under 11 TFLOPS performance. Won't be clocked too high for reliability reasons. Having a GPU with double digit TFLOPS would be a nice marketing button for Sony to push.

And then...

14-20GB RAM. 12-16GB of GDDR5X / 6 or HBM2 / 3, plus 2-4GB of DDR4 / LPDDR for the OS. I think Sony will use the PS4 Pro's RAM setup, even though that was clearly done as a stopgap measure, to save costs and free up fast RAM for games.

A standard 2.5" 1 / 2TB HDD. No fancy SSDs here.

A UHD Bluray drive with support for 100GB discs, at least. I don't think Sony will ditch optical media for the PS5, but this will probably be the last generation of consoles that use discs.

Maybe some secret sauce Mark Cerny dreamed up to tie the whole thing together.

A Dual Shock 5 with new some controller gimmick. Maybe it splits in half like Switch Joycons, then you can use it for VR without having to buy a PS Move.

 

[thomasmahler]

Pachter is a fucking ignoramus when it comes to anything related to how hardware works. His opinion is literally worthless.

Cerny has gone on record saying that PS4 Pro is not a bridge between gens. Not sure what more proof you need.

Uhm, that's not how hardware development works. Cerny can't just force better chips into existence through the power of his will.

These are x86 machines we're talking about. By nature of that, it'll be another upgrade on top of the previous tech and there's literally 0 chance that the box will be some crazy new proprietary tech that'll blow current machines out of the water. It's not 1996 anymore.

X1X to me is a much nicer upgrade over the 'current gen' than the PS4Pro was - and I'm sure the PS5 will be another slight upgrade on top of X1X and things will just continue this way from now on.

I mean, by now this generational switch is really more about philosophy - What identified previous generations was that they always started from ground zero with complete incompatibility to previous tech, which is just downright dumb in this day and age. If all my PS4 games are incompatible on PS5 even though it's just another x86 upgrade, Sony will have made a huge mistake. And Sony would need to be batshit crazy to invest in some stupid stuff like the Cell tech again that nobody can figure out, only to make the lives of developers that much harder once again.

No, this is all over. It'll be 'half steps' until the end of time now. And hey - that strategy has worked for the PC for a looooong time. You choose when you wanna upgrade.

 

[Emulated Hype]

I can see it getting announced/released Spring/Fall 2020, give or take a year. I don't think it'll be a half step. The ram jump might end up being underwhelming, but so long as they don't skimp out on the CPU again things will be fine.

I expect it'll be beefy enough to handle 2nd or 3rd gen VR.

 

[Wollan]

If HDMI 2.1 VRR is there to catch the hiccups, why not target 30fps unlocked rather than 60fps with drops? Prettier graphics and VRR lets you have unlocked framerate and benefit from it.

(not saying they should, but they probably will - can't see 60fps suddenly being a thing, especially if the increase in performance is -relatively- small compared to previous generations)

With Zen consoles will be joining PC's in the fray of CPU performance increases having hit a plateau (it has been largely flat since 2011).
Either we make the jump to 60fps as the new target with PS5 baseline or we don't for the next decade.
60fps obviously plays a lot better.

 

[DAHGAMING]

Will it have improved stability do you think?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Will it have improved stability do you think?

It'll be so stable it'll loop back on itself and become unstable.

 

[anothertech]

He's right about 2019.

But half step is downplaying imo. Ryzen CPU with HBM memory powering the 12/16tf gpu is hardly a half step. This post is from the future btw.

 

[Majmun]

I just hope I can still use my PSVR on the PS5.

 

[Floody]

A half step from the Pro, which he (rnot unreasonably) thinks was a half step from the PS4. Not really all that outrageous of a statement.
I think it'll be either 2019 or 2020 release and Sony would be really stupid to not have PS4 BC (at least close to launch), with the huge growth of digital this gen and MS likely pushing it hard with the NextBox, so guess I agree with him too.
Only thing I don't agree with is the FPS, devs will prioritize graphics and Res, be nice if we get a performance option though, but not holding my breath.

 

[I'm Spartacus]

About 10TF in 2019 is right if you use the Pro as a half step analogy and apply it to maths:

PS4 = 1.8tf
Pro = 4.2tf

(4.2/1.8)Pro is a step up of x2.33r in power. Now apply that jump/step to the Pro: 4.2 x 2.33r = 9.8tf. Lets round that to 10tf. 10tf/1.8tf(ps4) = 5.55r or 10tf/4.2tf(Pro) = 2.38.

So at 10TF, PS5 would be around 5 1/2 times more powerful than a PS4 and about 2 1/3 times more powerful than a Pro.

Now add in a vastly superior (and probably faster) CPU with faster bandwidth RAM (and more of it) along with custom features built into the GPU/Hardware and you have a still pretty impressive system and certainly a full-step jump from a base PS4 and a not insignificant leap from a Pro. It also fits into the increase of about 2TF per year as shown from the XB1X specs.

I doubt Sony will want as long a generation as last time as they are already eager to sell 4K TVs with the Pro; by the time the 2019 comes around 4K TVs will be fairly ubiquitous and probably mass market and not likely something that Sony will want to miss out on.

 

[E-Cat]

I don't see the phrasing "blur the lines between generations" to mean "a half-step console" and I don't believe Cerny understands it this way either.

Normally when people in the industry have talked about "blurring the lines between generations" they're talking about subverting the traditional generational transition paradigm to move towards a more iterative approach (ala PC or smartphones). It's normally understood to be a statement towards software comparability between new and legacy hardware.

The PS4 Pro (and clearly XB1X) are clearly "mid-gen" or "half-step" consoles, because they are consoles still securely rooted in the existing console generation (i.e. having no exclusive software developed for them) but offering additional hardware performance.

A console "blurring the line between generations" would be one that is released with both backwards and forwards compatibility, meaning new software can run BOTH on the newest hardware and legacy hardware, just as legacy software can run on the newest hardware.

MS, disingenuously used this phrasing to talk about XB1X, when in actual fact they have since clarified that it is indeed an XB1. I'm under no illusion that the next Xbox (or PS5 for that matter) will be BC and FC. Both will likely be BC, but then that isn't "blurring the line between generations", since BC capable consoles aren't in any way a departure from the traditional console generational model (and BC has in fact been fairly standard up until last generation).

So, we're basically agreeing that there will not be forward compatibility between the gens, then? Which was my original point?

Uhm, that's not how hardware development works. Cerny can't just force better chips into existence through the power of his will.

These are x86 machines we're talking about. By nature of that, it'll be another upgrade on top of the previous tech and there's literally 0 chance that the box will be some crazy new proprietary tech that'll blow current machines out of the water. It's not 1996 anymore.

X1X to me is a much nicer upgrade over the 'current gen' than the PS4Pro was - and I'm sure the PS5 will be another slight upgrade on top of X1X and things will just continue this way from now on.

I mean, by now this generational switch is really more about philosophy - What identified previous generations was that they always started from ground zero with complete incompatibility to previous tech, which is just downright dumb in this day and age. If all my PS4 games are incompatible on PS5 even though it's just another x86 upgrade, Sony will have made a huge mistake. And Sony would need to be batshit crazy to invest in some stupid stuff like the Cell tech again that nobody can figure out, only to make the lives of developers that much harder once again.

No, this is all over. It'll be 'half steps' until the end of time now. And hey - that strategy has worked for the PC for a looooong time. You choose when you wanna upgrade.

I meant "not half-step" in the sense that even though the magnitude of the power difference between PS4 and Pro may be similar to that between Pro and PS5 (except for the CPU), PS5 will mark a hard end to the generation and its games will not be downgraded for the sake of PS4 Pro compatibility, which I (perhaps mistakenly?) attributed to Pachter.

 

[Shredderi]

I hope PS5 won't be a half step because I will have no need for half measures. A half step with full BC with PS4 would ensure that for a long time the games would be PS4 up-ports.

 

[MayMay]

I wish I earned my money by just talking out of my ass

 

[Shredderi]

I wish I earned my money by just talking out of my ass

This doesn't earn him money. Hate the guy but c'mon at least do your research people!

 

[Maroon Gamer]

PS4 Pro Slim in 2018
PS5 with next gen games and PS4 BC in 2020/21.

Yep, I think this is the case too...

 

[gaming_noob]

I wish I earned my money by just talking out of my ass

Michael Pachter's schooling:

Master of Business Administration, Law degree, Marketing degree

Follow his steps and apply for his position.

 

[*Splinter]

I mean, by now this generational switch is really more about philosophy - What identified previous generations was that they always started from ground zero with complete incompatibility to previous tech, which is just downright dumb in this day and age.

PS1, 2 and 3 had backwards compatibility. As did Wii, Wii U, and Xbox 360 (limited?). BC was the norm before this gen, and will likely be the norm again assuming next Gen's architecture is as expected.

What seperates generations is the lack of forward compatibility, and I don't expect that to change any time soon.

 

[kc44135]

I'd just like to briefly touch on how important I think it is that PS5 have Backwards Compatibility with PS4. It's more important than ever, with the growing popularity of Digital purchases over Physical, online focused games, "Games as a service", stuff like Anthem that EA supposedly wants to last a decade, etc. I feel that all of this, coupled with Microsoft's commitment to BC (and the likely scenario that the "NextBox" will support four generations worth of Xbox games) makes BC for PS5 an essential feature. I get why they had to cut ties with PS3 (dat architecture tho), but I personally feel like they can't do that again this time around. PS5 has to be BC with PS4, IMO.

 

[oti]

PS4 Pro is already hitting close to 300 Euros in Germany. In a year it should be 250 Euros to 200 Euros. They'll have to introduce the next premium model in the next two years, three years tops.

 

[onQ123]

PS3 was generally 720p though.
If there were a PS3 Pro it probably would have been 1080p, which would then make PS4 a half step.

Are we pretending that all PS4 Pro games are 4K just for the sake of saying that PS5 will be a half step?

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

I still think late 2019 / 2020 is the most likely. They don't need to rush now the Xbox One X is more expensive than the Pro, but they won't want to give MS too far of a lead with the most powerful console, if a lot of games turn out to be much better than PS4 / PS4 Pro versions.

6 or 8 Core Zen 2 7nm CPU @ 3.2GHz / 10-12 TFlop GPU (Vega or Navi) 16GB RAM (HBM would be great) UHD Blu-ray drive, 2TB Storage (standard)

Should be more than capable for 4k gaming at 30 or 60fps and be a decent step up over the X, without being stupidly expensive.

 

[Floody]

I hope PS5 won't be a half step because I will have no need for half measures. A half step with full BC with PS4 would ensure that for a long time the games would be PS4 up-ports.

PS5 having BC with PS4 doesn't mean the PS4 will run PS5 games. Probably be the usual 18 or so months of mostly cross-gen games, slowly phasing out to be mostly next gen only. I really doubt any of Sony's stuff will be cross-gen though.

 

[oti]

I still think late 2019 / 2020 is the most likely. They don't need to rush now the Xbox One X is more expensive than the Pro, but they won't want to give MS too far of a lead with the most powerful console, if a lot of games turn out to be much better than PS4 / PS4 Pro versions.

6 or 8 Core Zen 2 7nm CPU @ 3.2GHz / 10-12 TFlop GPU (Vega or Navi) 16GB RAM (HBM would be great) UHD Blu-ray drive, 2TB Storage (standard)

Should be more than capable for 4k gaming at 30 or 60fps and be a decent step up over the X, without being stupidly expensive.

I just don't believe the amount of people who would buy a $500 machine so many years into this generation is great enough for Sony to having to react. Especially if those people own a PS4.

 

[TwiztidElf]

Didn't Layden literally say that the PS5 won't be a half-step a few weeks ago?

Yep.