I think there's light at the end of this tunnel though. 4ktvs with HDMI 2.1 will be the norm by then. It's accepts 4k 120fps inputs, it's real beneficial to make a console with that target in mind because of VR needs for high resolution and framrates (PSVR2). Also consumers generally want consoles that fully utilizes there TV sets. I'm not saying expect 4k 120fps AAA games, but I am saying we can look forward to more 60fps games and some 120fps games from Indies.
Pachter: PS5 to be a half step, release in 2019 with PS4 BC
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
No it doesn't.
Nobody needs 32GB any time soon.
Agree to disagree then.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Next gen does need 32 GB. That's a modest 4X leap from last gen.
Cerny has already stated you need a meaningful increase in RAM and bandwidth for a next gen upgrade.
Cerny has already stated you need a meaningful increase in RAM and bandwidth for a next gen upgrade.
Exactly what I said 😊
People probably need to stop looking for giant multipliers between gens.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
4X isn't giant, but it is meaningful. Anything less wouldn't seem like a leap.
This gen we got 16X.
I think 32 GB is a realistic target, you'll need it for 4k textures
This gen we got 16X.
I think 32 GB is a realistic target, you'll need it for 4k textures
Yea, Its all speculation, but I'm assuming a holiday 2021 release with the tech available at the time and a $499.99 price point. Speculate from there.
You two keep saying "need." It's not needed, because it's not what we're getting.
Shin
Banned
Need is a strong word and I wouldn't say we need that much either.
It depends what PlayStation will do with 8K since that's a thing or will be one within PS5's generation.
Things would be looking rather grim if it's going to be 16Gb, 24Gb would be more than sufficient I think.
Shiiiiiit I'm already depressed if it's 16 freakin' Gb.
Memory is what I'm most curious about ATM, the type, bandwidth and amount.
The other parts you can pretty much guess if they are going with AMD.
Why do you even think it's needed. I mean, you can take a look at the future *now* and you will not find many systems with such a huge amount of ram. I mean, you can't have enough ram but it's definitely not needed.
Fine, is desired a better word?
Companies don't design their consoles not around what people on forums think would be needed for a "leap" but what they think is needed.
Unless you either build tech or you build high performance code for consoles, there is nothing that justifies desires for tech.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
I know you're an insider, but I doubt you have any real insight into PS5's specs at this point.
My speculation is based on Mark Cerny's own statements - why are you disagreeing with him?
I understand being reluctant to expect a mid gen refresh to have all sorts of new bells and whistles, but this is what should be expected of a new gen, so why the timid expectations?
Absolutely. You are free to desire whatever you want, and more RAM is always better. But that much isn't needed, and shouldn't be expected.
Shin
Banned
Bandwidth triumphs amount of memory I'd reckon 16Gb would do the job, 12 would be a sad state of affairs and equal to a current console.
Using these benchmarks it would be sufficient for 8K even, though games as is aren't really build to make full use of high-end GPU's so shit can change.
http://www.tweaktown.com/tweakipedia/90/much-vram-need-1080p-1440p-4k-aa-enabled/index.html
Side note: Shadow of Mordor seems to use most VRAM, was looking around the other day how much memory games eat at 4K.
I am hopeful that PS5 era games double down on checkerboard rendering. The PS4 implementation in Horizon and the PC implementation in Watchdogs 2 is really a good proof in concept. The difference in the above two games in CB4k vs native 4k is so negligible in my eyes... and I am normally really anal and scrutinize shit like this. Pretty sure DF said the performance increase is 35-40% when using CB in Watchdogs 2. I know on my PC for WD2, I tend to get 40-44 FPS at native 4k and 60+ FPS at CB4k. This is a huge deal because I'd rather the next gen powerup go towards higher FPS (lol who the fuck am I kidding), or making games prettier/more dense -- rather than render a native 4k image.
Disagree there for a next gen console. If it's ram limited then it needs/desires some serious bandwidth.
You think 8k will be a thing for ps5? 😂
There's no way that PS5 needs 32 GB of memory. The most likely option is 12 GB or 16 GB that what most modern systems use today. Also, keep in mind that it most likely going to have GDDR5X/GDDR6 memory this time.
That was different tho. 8 GB to 32 GB is a huge leap compared to 4 GB to 8 GB.
Shin
Banned
Some games could yes, as I said 8K TV's are hitting the market this year, with PS5 supposedly lasting till 2030+ or whatever it will be caught in the 8K "madness".
Wouldn't be surprised if PlayStation tries to make a push for it like they always do with everything.
Simple games, indies perhaps.
If it can do 4k 120fps on some indie games (HDMI 2.1), then 8k/30 is a possibility.
I think this is a good point when talking about software -- console games were a lot more expensive in the early 90's. The reason publishers are doing so much DLC and season passes and microtransactions is because $60 in 2017 money really isn't enough for a AAA game. Maybe part of that is just the sheer number of games being made today.
I'm not so sure on hardware though. According to this chart comparing the prices of past consoles in 2016 dollars, most successful game consoles have launched at around $300 or $400 in today's money. Some flirted with $450 but that seems to be the limit. You're right about people's incomes stagnating though.
Another factor to consider though is the overall stagnation of the console audience. Console publishers are focusing more and more on the hardcore gamer who pre-orders special editions and buys season passes. That and the more mainstream GTA/COD/Madden/FIFA gamer. I haven't seen much attempt to expand beyond that. Since around 2008 most of the expansion in video games has been in PC and mobile. One issue in this is how consoles aren't expanding all that much in emerging markets like South America, continental Asia, and Eastern Europe. Sony seems to be trying to make inroads into Korea, China, and parts of Southeast Asia, but I think those places are mostly PC and mobile gaming. Consoles may have missed their chance in these markets.
Yup, they said 8GB of GDDR5 was a pipe dream.
Like PS5 PRO....
Let's be honest, this was rather luck then well planned in the end. Also at that time 8 GB was nothing special on PC. 32 GB won't be standard in 2020 even on PC.
Same as XOX ? not happening, heck even 16GB would be a big disappointment.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yuck, no thanks. Enough with the boosted PS4s, the next one needs to be a PS5.
8GB of GDDR5 certainly was.
But that's just it, we're not talking about today, next gen is literally about the next decade.
By any time soon I mean any time in the next decade.
BigEmil
Junior Member
Why would 16GB be a disappointment? 2x the PS4 RAM of 8GB
Most PC have 8GB RAM as that's enough for gaming (i guess GPU cards includes some RAM too) 16GB is definitely enough
Shin
Banned
It already seems like it will be if what Matt said is correct, though he's not saying the amount because it's probably not set in stone yet.
12-16Gb, 3.1Ghz, 8.6TF....lol might as well call it PS4K (if the specs are close to that I'll wait for PS5 Pro).
Ah thanks. Thinking about it, its not surprising with how much GDDR5 they put in at the time. It was a great launch.
I don't get how that's disappointing? With the mid range consoles, we shouldn't be looking at crazy jumps because we have an upgraded version.
A console of those specs would produce games well above and beyond what we have.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Probably because PS3 -> PS4 was a 16x leap in memory. Nobody expects that again, of course, but only a 2x increase would perhaps feel a bit low.
See post #749 though "need" is a strong word.
Seriously lol.
Shin
Banned
To me it would, but the world doesn't evolve around me, I'm sure others will be happy with it.
And they could definitely keep the desired price point of $399 with similar specifications.
Personally I'm hoping for 24Gb, a CPU that runs at least at 3.5Ghz and a 12TF+ GPU, these are mobile parts after all.
PS3 to PS4 was 16x. I'm not expecting such leap anymore, but only 2x ? eh.
IKR ? lol
Patrick Bateman
Member
What?
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Doesn't really matter if they used to be able to multiply ram by 16x, The highest price point the PS5 could possibly get away with is $499, and judging by the reaction of the Scorpio, they'll likely go below that.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Um, things like threads per core and IPC are a thing in CPUs, not just clock speeds. Also, not all teraflops are created equal in GPUs. Power per performance is a thing.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yeah i think those days are gone .
Last gen to this gen is last we ever going to get a huge RAM jump for eg .
Unless we get some breakthrough in the tech world .
Shin
Banned
Specs aside though there's a lot they can learn from MS to improve user experience.
For all their shortcomings Xbox has a handful of features that PlayStation does not, which I would like to see on PS5.
Here's a list of things people would like to see implemented or changed on PSN or in a PS5 (gathered from topics).
For all their shortcomings Xbox has a handful of features that PlayStation does not, which I would like to see on PS5.
Here's a list of things people would like to see implemented or changed on PSN or in a PS5 (gathered from topics).
- Backwards compatibility with PS1 (money to be made here through PSN sales)
- Backwards compatibility with PS2 (money to be made here through PSN sales)
- Backwards compatibility with PS4 (good way to lock players your eco-system)
- LFG feature (the way Microsoft implemented it on Xbox, it's not like Communities on PS)
- Hardware handling rendering of older titles to native 4K and 60FPS where applicable
- PSN ID change (truncate older ID's that aren't used, 5 years of no activity -> free up ID)
- Date of birth change (every modern system has this enabled by default yet not on PSN)
- System wide super sampling / downsampling for those that are still on a 1080p TV
- Emphasis on CPU, learn from your mistake with PS4 and PS4 Pro, make it a priority
- Ultra High Definition drive, along with 4K TV's goes 4K movies (Sony sells those)
- Trophies background syncing - still not available in 2017
- PSN download speeds are still slow and not using a users max bandwidth, fix it
- Cross Platform - you're on the outs and look like the bad guy, everyone else is doing it
- Digital Refunds - still not a thing outside of EU and that's because of the law, learn from Steam
- Voice chat overlay - that you can move around to see who's talking (game UI differs in the end)
- Psychical/Digital game ID - doesn't match have to re-download the full game because of it
I'm aware, but thanks.
Graphics Horse
Member
People are thinking 8k now? I doubt it.. Sony released a 4k TV before the PS4 came out so the existence of them won't mean a whole lot.
Contender for a pro edition I suppose.
Contender for a pro edition I suppose.
Fess
Member
Yeah that's way too small jump for PS5. But I don't think that's happening, I'm thinking we'll get another 2TF every year, giving us roughly 10TF in 2019 if we're using PS4 Pro as the start. Then a new PS every 3 year and a new Xbox every 4 year.
2016, PS4 Pro, 4TF
2017, XB1X, 6TF
2019, PS5, 10TF
2021, XB2, 14TF
2022, PS5 Pro, 16TF
Something like that.
So, have fun playing on PS4 Pro until 2022 I guess ;P
Shin
Banned
Yeah most likely, like they did with PS4 Pro to cater that market.
Which is why we're discussing the memory and the amount it would need to drive 8K.
They could always add more memory to a Pro version but that doesn't seem practical.
FTFY, don't have a PS4
, I have games for it but not the console itself I'm that weird lol