I've just gotten to Chapter 5 and yeah, my topic pretty much expresses my biggest gripe about the game so far. I mean sheesh... talk about artificially stretching play time. This is ridiculous. All you do is go back and forth again and again to complete various stuff or to go get an item. It's rather tedious.
I've just gotten to Chapter 5 and yeah, my topic pretty much expresses my biggest gripe about the game so far. I mean sheesh... talk about artificially stretching play time. This is ridiculous. All you do is go back and forth again and again to complete various stuff or to go get an item. It's rather tedious.
Too many people complain at backtracking elements these days. I have no problem with backtracking since I am always excited to unlock a new area or item in the place I visited in the past.
It seems that many gamers want A --> B --> C --> D games which I don't find that exciting.
Yes I agree with you 100% Here's what I wrote in the official thread
-PAPER BACKTRACKING TWO. My god, I don't think I've ever played an rpg with as much pointless running back and forth in my entire life and I play A LOT of rpgs >.< Running back and forth 2-6 times a chapter through entire levels is so fucking lame and is total padding IMO which doesn't seem necessary considering that the game is actually a very good length.
Seriously I've played almost every rpg this generation whether including a good amount of the Jpn only ones and I reckon to say PM2 has 2x the amount of backtracking than the worst offender in that bunch.
And man if you just finished chapter 5, look forward to chapter 6 in the 5 compartment lets walk around for more hours fuck you train
I'd take the artificial lengthening of the WW boat over the BS traveling in this game. I wish whoever at NoJ is pushing the idea that "all Nintendo GC games be 30 hours long! (Zelda/Pikmin2/PM2)" would lose their position as when you don't have endless time to play games, hours wasted on padding pisses you off.
frankly I don't get it... when I read the early reviews and they mentioned backtracking I was like "Hmm.. that kind of sucks."
now up to chapter 6 I was like "Umm.. so where is this supposed backtracking" I really didn't get it until I read this thread..
THAT is what people were complaining about? WTF?? There is less backtracking than in games like Crash Bandicoot or Super Mario 64.... let alone virtually any FF game...
hmm.. I guess people will look for ANY reason to complain about parts of a game...
frankly I don't get it... when I read the early reviews and they mentioned backtracking I was like "Hmm.. that kind of sucks."
now up to chapter 6 I was like "Umm.. so where is this supposed backtracking" I really didn't get it until I read this thread..
THAT is what people were complaining about? WTF?? There is less backtracking than in games like Crash Bandicoot or Super Mario 64.... let alone virtually any FF game...
hmm.. I guess people will look for ANY reason to complain about parts of a game...
It's not bad at all, compared to most RPG's. The game is just so damn perfect, reviewers needed a reason to give it a lower score.
I concur that there is some tedious back tracking, but nothing that makes you go "dear God, stop!". Tales of Symphonia had some pretty damn annoying back tracking, much worse than Paper Mario.
frankly I don't get it... when I read the early reviews and they mentioned backtracking I was like "Hmm.. that kind of sucks."
now up to chapter 6 I was like "Umm.. so where is this supposed backtracking" I really didn't get it until I read this thread..
THAT is what people were complaining about? WTF?? There is less backtracking than in games like Crash Bandicoot or Super Mario 64.... let alone virtually any FF game...
hmm.. I guess people will look for ANY reason to complain about parts of a game...
Chapter 5:
Land on the island and go all the way to the right and find the bomb guy
Walk all the way to the left and talk to the captain guy to get the bottle
Walk all the way to the right and talk to the bomb guy to get him to follow you
Walk all the way left to talk to the captain guy to get him to come with you
Walk all the way right to put the skull in the cave.
I'm sorry but don't just say "FF has more backtracking than this...blah blah blah". Give me examples like I just did. Something in another rpg that's part of the same story that requires you to go LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens, LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens, LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens just to move foward a little bit.
It's like they designed these gorgeous locations in PM2 and said "I think people might miss how gorgeous they are on one pass through! Lets froce them to walk across this screen 6 times!"
So you've just came back from the island of left and rights. And then you must go to the Don...and then go BACK TO THE ISLAND which you were just at. Then go BACK to the rock formation thing on the island as if you were sick of going through the 3 screens enough from Ch.5...and then go BACK to the Don.
Chapter 5:
Land on the island and go all the way to the right and find the bomb guy
Walk all the way to the left and talk to the captain guy to get the bottle
Walk all the way to the right and talk to the bomb guy to get him to follow you
Walk all the way left to talk to the captain guy to get him to come with you
Walk all the way right to put the skull in the cave.
I'm sorry but don't just say "FF has more backtracking than this...blah blah blah". Give me examples like I just did. Something in another rpg that's part of the same story that requires you to go LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens, LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens, LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens just to move foward a little bit.
It's like they designed these gorgeous locations in PM2 and said "I think people might miss how gorgeous they are on one pass through! Lets froce them to walk across this screen 6 times!"
Dude there is much worse backtracking in other RPGs. The trouble you talked about takes like 10-15 minutes. I have played games where it takes hours to complete a backtracking sidequest.
Dude there is much worse backtracking in other RPGs. The trouble you talked about takes like 10-15 minutes. I have played games where it takes hours to complete a backtracking sidequest.
That's nice and all except in most rpgs like you said backtracking is a side-quest whereas in PM2 almost every other event in the MAIN GAME progression requires backtracking.
Don't get me wrong, I really like PM2 but I'm not able to magically ignore extreme problems with the game design just because it has great dungeons and a kickass battle system. You can still like a game and admit it has faults.
Why yes, I have played quite alot of RPG's in my lifetime thank you. All FF's, Xenogears, Chrono Trigger/Cross, etc, etc, etc. Yet I've never seen a RPG use that kind of constant and lame back and forth through a same location for a whole duration of a chapter. It wouldn't be so bad if the backtracking seemed legitimate and not just "Hey, for the sake of it, go and collect that item and bring it back to me. Just because."
Why yes, I have played quite alot of RPG's in my lifetime thank you. All FF's, Xenogears, Chrono Trigger/Cross, etc, etc, etc. Yet I've never seen a RPG use that kind of constant and lame back and forth through a same location for a whole duration of a chapter. It wouldn't be so bad if the backtracking seemed legitimate and not just "Hey, for the sake of it, go and collect that item and bring it back to me. Just because."
if you want to avoid the backtracking just dont do the troubles, they are the worst of it
and you really dont get anything worthwhile for them anyway, besides, I guess, the cards for the games which arent really useful or fun anyway. If you're obsessed with getting everything in the game then what are you complaining about you should be used to that kind of tedium in rpg's
Chapter 5:
Land on the island and go all the way to the right and find the bomb guy
Walk all the way to the left and talk to the captain guy to get the bottle
Walk all the way to the right and talk to the bomb guy to get him to follow you
Walk all the way left to talk to the captain guy to get him to come with you
Walk all the way right to put the skull in the cave.
I'm sorry but don't just say "FF has more backtracking than this...blah blah blah". Give me examples like I just did. Something in another rpg that's part of the same story that requires you to go LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens, LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens, LEFT 3 screens, RIGHT 3 screens just to move foward a little bit.
It's like they designed these gorgeous locations in PM2 and said "I think people might miss how gorgeous they are on one pass through! Lets froce them to walk across this screen 6 times!"
Oh my.. at first I really thought you were just complaining about the back and for through the hub (Rougueport). But now you are complaining about walking about just a given zone?
It is NO different than pretty much an Lucasarts or Sierra game I've ever played.. lol.. I always thought in games like Monkey Island and LeChuck's Revenge I was just having fun, I didn't realize it was backtracking for all of these years.
I personally feel you guys are stretching here just to DEFINE this supposed backtracking that is being talked about. First it was Rogueport and people refuted that with the whole hub concept, and now you are talking about traveling through like 4 screens in a given zone. This is bordering on ridiculous.
as for backtracking for me.. backtracking is when you are FORCED to revist areas (non-hub areas mind you) CONSTANTLY from early in the game. so if I had to run all the way through zones 1 or 2 just to get item so and so (as part of the main quest, not a side quest), that is backtracking.
the one thing I will say that COULD get old is going through constant fights while going back and forth. This is one thing in FF that I've always hated. "Go through the world map to get to this town, get it, run back to the first town, then run back to the new town, fighting all the way random encounters". Fortunately you can avoid battles in Paper Mario... what is even cooler is that "backtracking" that you are complaining about instead turns to a mini-platformer game instead trying to avoid the enemies instead of getting into another battle.
I'm about 6 hours into the game and it haven't really bothered me so far, but I can see it becoming an issue later if it keeps up. The game is really very good and charming, and hell, it has kept me interested enough to play it for about 6 hours, so that's a plus. The thing that has annoyed me the most so far is
that stupid bitch getting kidnapped again. GOOD GOD STOP NINTENDO ARGH!
Hopefully something happens in the story that makes the game stand out, but so far it just bothers me that it's another collect-a-ton with no true interesting story.
Sometimes the backtracking is pretty annoying, but worse than Wind Waker? Hell no. I'll take 2 minutes of yoshi speed-running past encounters over steering that bloody ship back to photo island or sailing the entire map just looking for the fetch item to enter the ghost ship.
The backtracking didn't bother me until the train chapter. That was especially frustrating and boring considering I was playing the JPN version and couldn't read their instructions. It took hours of just walking around and talking to people.
I've been doing every Trouble at the Trouble Center (I just started chapter 5) and I really wish most of were more than just(here's a good example):
Walk (or hop on Yoshi) and go to Twilight Town, talk to the mayor and get a piece of paper from him. Take the paper to the great tree Elder, then take another piece of paper back to the Twilight Town Mayor. He gives you another piece of paper, which you take to the mayor of Petalburg, and you then take a final piece of paper back to the mayor of Twilight Town!!
Fun, no? All this for 30 coins. I've been doing every side-quest because I want all the mini games unlocked, but going through all that shit for a pathetic 30 coins is just ridiculous, especially, especially when it challenges nothing but your own patience.
I've been doing every Trouble at the Trouble Center (I just started chapter 5) and I really wish most of were more than just(here's a good example):
Walk (or hop on Yoshi) and go to Twilight Town, talk to the mayor and get a piece of paper from him. Take the paper to the great tree Elder, then take another piece of paper back to the Twilight Town Mayor. He gives you another piece of paper, which you take to the mayor of Petalburg, and you then take a final piece of paper back to the mayor of Twilight Town!!
Fun, no? All this for 30 coins. I've been doing every side-quest because I want all the mini games unlocked, but going through all that shit for a pathetic 30 coins is just ridiculous, especially, especially when it challenges nothing but your own patience.
yes, the Trouble Center is VERY tedious... EXTREMELY tedious, and probably not worth all of the effort. there have always seemingly been two thoughts on side quests. Either make them extremely challenging or extremely tedious. Nintendo has usually chosen to go with tedious.
The thing about the side quests though is that they ARE optional. you don't have to go through that level of tediousness to beat the game.
me personally, I have always been more in favor of the tedious side quests than the super hard ones. The tedious ones at least let everyone join in.. the hard ones prevent some gamers from doing them.
that stupid bitch getting kidnapped again. GOOD GOD STOP NINTENDO ARGH!
Hopefully something happens in the story that makes the game stand out, but so far it just bothers me that it's another collect-a-ton with no true interesting story.
That bothers you? Ah c'mon, it's like a tradition at this point. They even openly make fun of it in the last few games.
Some character always mentions "She got kidnapped AGAIN!?" or Bowser mentions "WTF Only I can kidnap her!!" etc etc
. Besides, it isn't even the focus of the plot really. I thought the story in this game was different enough from what we're used to seeing in Mario games.
That bothers you? Ah c'mon, it's like a tradition at this point. They even openly make fun of it in the last few games.
Some character always mentions "She got kidnapped AGAIN!?" or Bowser mentions "WTF Only I can kidnap her!!" etc etc
. Besides, it isn't even the focus of the plot really. I thought the story in this game was different enough from what we're used to seeing in Mario games.
It does annoy me. I mean, if they only had made it funny somehow, but it's there and it's just not funny at all. As a matter of fact, my reaction to the event was: WTF!? This SAME SHIT AGAIN!? UGH! I almost stopped playing right then because it's just a big turn off to start playing a RPG and find the story to be so incredibly shallow right from the start (it's like having almost nothing to look forward to as this IS AN RPG.) Almost as if telling the player "Yes, we'll continue feeding you the same shit we've been doing these past decades." Good thing the gameplay is good and the game has lots of charm, as otherwise I wouldn't have bothered playing it.
And please, don't come with the "Nintendo has always done this" excuse as it's the same thing that has gotten Nintendo (the concept, not the particular issue) where they're at now.
but the situation is ENTIRELY different. (Including who does it, and the reason why they do it). And even if it wasn't... who cares!? It's good ol' Mario. Some things are suppose to say the same. A good franchise should constantly advance and change, but never to the point where it no longer feels familiar. Paper Mario 2 brings many new things to the table, IMO.
Besides, there is plenty more to the story than just that. The dialogue is so well done and the story has so much charm that you cannot call it shallow. Simple does not equal shallow.
The backtracking didn't bother me until the train chapter. That was especially frustrating and boring considering I was playing the JPN version and couldn't read their instructions. It took hours of just walking around and talking to people.
but the situation is ENTIRELY different. (Including who does it, and the reason why they do it). And even if it wasn't... who cares!? It's good ol' Mario. Some things are suppose to say the same. You want a franchise to constantly advance and change, but never to the point where it no longer feels familiar.
Besides, there is plenty more to the story than just that. The dialogue is so well done and the story has so much charm that you cannot call it shallow. Simple does not equal shallow.
Oh, I am certainly hoping it gets better. As I mentioned before I'm only 6 hours into it, but so far it's the impression I get from it.
You know, I guess it's a matter of expectations. I'm sorta sick of Mario everything and was hoping for something, not entirely different, but something that would at least feel fresh. Oh well...
Well sorry it didn't work for you. =/ I actually finished the game thinking "God damn I love everything about the Mario universe." and wanting more more more
Glad you're at least still giving it a shot though
