PCs, meet the Physics Processing Unit

Kleegamefan said:
A few licensees have already joined:

http://www.ageia.com/partners_publishers.html

Ubisoft
Airtight Games
Artificial Studios
Big Huge Games
Bongfish Interactive Entertainment
Epic Games
Kylotonn



And now Sega....


It looks like this is going to happen...

All this means is that they are using Novodex Physics engine, it's very similar to havok just a different engine. This novodex engine can be used with the processor but it doesn't need it.

Check this out
http://www.novodex.com/rocket/NovodexRocket_V1_1.exe
it's a link to Novodex Rocket a little app that showcases the physics engine. Very Cool.
 
No XENON, huh???

Perhaps in Revolution, then??

What gets me is the fact both Sega & AGEIA mention consoles :confused

Perhaps they are just talking about the NovodeX Physics SDK, which can be either software-only or hardware-accelerated.....yeah....maybe thats it???
 
Kleegamefan said:
Perhaps they are just talking about the NovodeX Physics SDK, which can be either software-only or hardware-accelerated.....yeah....maybe thats it???

And that's the only way they'll be able to break into the PC market, but then what's the point really? The whole idea is that with the hardware, it can go beyond what's possible with a generic processor (which is the same idea that came with early GPU's). The difference is that back in the day of the voodoo, all it did was provide eye candy, and the downgrade of graphics that came with a software renderer didn't fundamentally change gameplay. That's not the case with this tech and also why it's so much more suited for a closed platform. It can't succed in the same way 3dfx did, and really I don't see this tech going anywhere beyond the 1st or 2nd generation. It's only hope is consoles and maybe if it's hardcore enough, research applications.
 
hooo said:
And that's the only way they'll be able to break into the PC market, but then what's the point really? The whole idea is that with the hardware, it can go beyond what's possible with a generic processor (which is the same idea that came with early GPU's). The difference is that back in the day of the voodoo, all it did was provide eye candy, and the downgrade of graphics that came with a software renderer didn't fundamentally change gameplay. That's not the case with this tech and also why it's so much more suited for a closed platform. It can't succed in the same way 3dfx did, and really I don't see this tech going anywhere beyond the 1st or 2nd generation. It's only hope is consoles and maybe if it's hardcore enough, research applications.

I agree with this. I can see something like this in a closed platform, but the PC? Not likely.
 
Well, graphics accelerators aren't completely analogous, cause it's one thing to tell people "well, your game will have lower poly models/lower res textures/no filtering" etc. if they don't have a graphics accelerator...quite another to say that "many of the gameplay objects in your game will either run at 2fps or not move at all because you don't have a physics card"...one affects gameplay directly, one is purely a visual change...

Unless you mean to tell me this physics card is just going to be moving particle systems that don't affect the game directly...then why would I bother buying one? :)
 
if the much rumoured "mystery chip" in the xbox 2 is a physics only processor handling all the collissions , reactions etc, then what does this mean for the gflop chip only comparions?

How expensive is all that calculation on the Cell?

Again, if that chip does turn out to be a physics processor (and as the Xbox 2 is looking to farm in PC coders, it could well be true) then that gflop discrepancy might start to get less and less...
 
Except Blimblim said that there is no Physics processor in XENON...

Oh well.....should be a great console anyway.....it WILL be in my hands this fall...


SSX4 BABY!!!!:D
 
No one will buy a physics card. People care about graphics, not physics. But I would love to see it somehow implemented into a graphics card or something. That would be HOT.
 
I have so many empty slots on my motherboard I say bring this on! About time I get something useful to put in an empty PCI-E slot!
 
Reanimated said:
Just like for graphics - most games will probably end up with physics sliders. So if you have the card - you get more realistic physics.

It's also likely that high end gaming MB manufacturers like Abit and Asus could integrate this chip into their new gaming board designs.

Also, seeing as how this company is an XNA partner and they'll soon be annoucing "console partnerships", it's likely that this chip will be in Xenon, which gives PC devs using XNA much more incentive to integrated these features into their co-devloped games.


If this actually comes to fruition, I'd say it will start out like many things- expensive. I'm sure companies like Alienware, Voodoo PC, and Falcon NW would love a chance to market something like this. Once it gains critical mass market-wise, and economies of scale are achieved; then prices will start drifting down.

As well, given that TSMC is one big mother of a fab, I don't see hardware integration being the problem. The 'integration' challenge will lie more in the software interface.
 
novodex_center.gif


They'll put this shit into next gen consoles, GT5 will use it, and PCs will need it if they want to have any hope of keeping up.
 
Kleegamefan said:
What gets me is the fact both Sega & AGEIA mention consoles :confused

Virtua Fighter 5 arcade board. It says game machine, not console.
 
Yellow Ace said:
our sources reveal that there's one more mystery chip in Xenon.
I think it's a 6502 running at 200MHz.
WOOOOOOOOOt now I can finally run The Jet,Sentinel and Rescue on Fractalus at 60fps. After all these years, the prayers of so many have been answered!
 
The lack of any news about a highly custom CPU being developed for Sega Sammy's new high-end arcade system had suggested that they were planning on adapting from some manufacturer's existing roadmap a housekeeping-class chip for central processing duties, reflecting that the board might be set to pack accompanying specialized co-processing units. Renesas and ImgTec/PowerVR figured as possible candidates for the development of these components to be used in the PowerVR-based graphics arcade machine, but the existence of this PhysX chip and the knowledge that its developer has been building video game industry support for it for a while makes the possibility that Naomi 3 plans to use this PPU a strong one.
 
Lazy8s said:
The lack of any news about a highly custom CPU being developed for Sega Sammy's new high-end arcade system had suggested that they were planning on adapting from some manufacturer's existing roadmap a housekeeping-class chip for central processing duties, reflecting that the board might be set to pack accompanying specialized co-processing units. Renesas and ImgTec/PowerVR figured as possible candidates for the development of these components to be used in the PowerVR-based graphics arcade machine, but the existence of this PhysX chip and the knowledge that its developer has been building video game industry support for it for a while makes the possibility that Naomi 3 plans to use this PPU a strong one.

They've had Lockhead Martins design the Model 3 board for them too though. There's no other game machine they could use this on, so yeah, it's probably gonna be Naomi 3 stuff.(with VF5 on it)
 
"The Jet,Sentinel and Rescue on Fractalus at 60fps"

.... :O

The Sentinel please!

I have Sentinel Returns, but it won't run under my OS! BAH!

And the PSX version i have takes a calendar month to load each level.

One of the Best Games Ever.
 
Here's an interesting bit from the interview:

Tim Sweeney: The later revolution will be in next-generation games designed with large-scale physics from the very beginning. PhysX will make that possible on the PC, while other innovations will make large-scale physics possible on next-generation game consoles. There is a great deal of synergy there, with Ageia's physics engine providing a great hardware-accelerated solution on PC (with a software physics fallback for reduced detail) and also addressing the needs of the future consoles.

(PhysX is the name of the hardware physics coprocessor.)

It seems like on the PC, multicore CPUs won't be enough to match what the consoles will be able to do in software.

(I think everyone's underestimated how powerful Xenon's CPU is going to be by quite a percentage.)
 
Not to bump an old thread, but what the hell!

AnandTech
A Closer Look At PhysX: Our Take On The PPU
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2376

At first, we can’t expect a new genre of incredibly interactive games. The first few games that adopt the PPU will tack it on like the first few games that embraced hardware 3D. We’ll start by seeing effects enhancement (like more particles and objects go flying from explosions or some objects may get an upgrade to being deformable). If AGEIA has it their way, we will start seeing motherboards and notebooks integrating the PPU. If they can get good integration and acceptance of their add-in card, we might start seeing games that require a PPU and are really revolutionary with the level of user interaction allowed. AGEIA really wants to mirror the revolution that occurred with 3dfx, but it may be a better idea for them to separate themselves from that image considering how hard 3dfx fell from power.

Many people don’t think a separate add-in PPU will fly. What about vendors dropping both the GPU and PPU on one card? Maybe if the add-in PPU doesn’t stick around, we will one day see the birth of a ubiquitous “gaming card” that integrates graphics, physics, and sound onto one add-in board. Or if Intel decides that they need to go the extreme route, we may see integration of very application specific hardware that can handle tasks like physics processing onto the CPU.

We like the idea of the PPU a lot. But like plasma television (which has been around for decades), just because good technology exists doesn’t mean vendors and consumers will adopt it. We hope PhysX or something like it leaves a lasting mark on the PC industry. As unpredictable as they are, it’s about time we had another revolution in game design.
 
aaaaa0 said:
It seems like on the PC, multicore CPUs won't be enough to match what the consoles will be able to do in software.

For the short term, this is true. PCs will only be going dual-core later this year, whereas Xbox2 will be triple-core, and PS3 even more powerful on the CPU side (likely).

aaaaa0 said:
(I think everyone's underestimated how powerful Xenon's CPU is going to be by quite a percentage.)

I don't think so. I think for this type of application, the Xenon CPU will be better than what's in PC Land at the time it launches, and probably for a while beyond. So from that perspective, it is very very powerful, and not to be underestimated. It's just when you place it next to PS3's (likely) CPU..

Also, where did the idea of a Xenon "mystery chip" come from?

And as for PhysX, I would have thought AEGIA's comments regarding its possible inclusion in next-gen consoles would have pointed to it being very unlikely in Xenon - they basically talked about it being "too late" for certain console designs, that they were already pretty much set in stone. If any design is locked at this stage, it's Xenon's.

Also - how good are AEGIA on the software side? The hardware looks promising, but not many really paid attention to Novadex, relatively speaking, until it arrived. How does the software compare to the likes of Havok? I think that if they really want to see their chip take off, they should open it up to support from other middleware, specifically from Havok. I won't put money down for one of these if it'll only be used in games using Novadex. That could kill it.
 
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