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[Banjo64]

Yeah the numbers will grow with it. Simple as that. It's not like the number of subscribers stay fixed is it

Phil himself is saying it's nearly hitting peak subscriber count on consoles, so there's not much room for growth IMHO. PC and Cloud only gamers won't be as big as their Xbox install base. I think towards the end of the gen if they have 80m instal base they could realistically have 40m game pass subscribers, but that's only 10m or so more than right now, and they haven't taken on ABK's operating costs yet.

 

[SLB1904]

Shawn was talking about releasing AAA funded games...

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Lots of people eating crow now.

Nahh that same group doesn't believe him when he says positive things or when he says he plans on keeping COD on Playstation but when he says things like we may see a price increase thats gospel

Its all in how things fit into people's narrative

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Good to hear Game Pass is profitable.

Now waiting for Sony to say if their PS+ sub plans are too. Since they dont, it must mean they are losing money.

 

[adamsapple]

Nahh that same group doesn't believe him when he says positive things or when he says he plans on keeping COD on Playstation but when he says things like we may see a price increase thats gospel

Its all in how things fit into people's narrative

It's strange.

The reactions vary so wildly for selective quotes in the same interview. Phil is the schrodinger's executive. He is both a liar and honest depending on what some users selectively want to believe.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

Only 10% revenue, when u have all ur games day one on it, sounds terrible, WTF

"We're seeing incredibly growth on PC... on console I've seen growth slow down, mainly because at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe."

Where is the good news???

They're buying love. It's really not that uncommon. We do it at work all the time. We aren't number one in a KPI, do something to make people love you. Make it too good to be true. Business 101.

Interesting how they've also alluded to price increases. People all over said that would never happen.

 

[Banjo64]

Shawn was talking about releasing AAA funded games...

Bro he was chatting pure gobbledegook - I'm glad he wasn't head of finance at PlayStation.

"It's very hard to launch a $120m game on a subscription service charging $9.99 a month," began Layden. "You're going to have to have 500 million subscribers before you start to recoup your investment. That's why right now you need to take a loss-leading position to try to grow that base. But still, if you have only 250 million consoles out there, you're not going to get to half a billion subscribers. So how do you circle that square? Nobody has figured that out yet."

 

[octiny]

Nahh that same group doesn't believe him when he says positive things or when he says he plans on keeping COD on Playstation but when he says things like we may see a price increase thats gospel

Its all in how things fit into people's narrative

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Only 10% revenue, when u have all ur games day one on it, sounds terrible, WTF

"We're seeing incredibly growth on PC... on console I've seen growth slow down, mainly because at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe."

Where is the good news???

10-15% of total revenue, meaning there is still 85-90% more revenue left from the Gaming Division.

Who told you it's game pass' responsibility alone to cover the development costs of all Xbox games? The Xbox division together makes over $16 billion in revenue. Game Pass subscriptions is one of many means to pay for games being developed. As is third-party and first-party game revenues (game add-on/DLC sales, in-game transaction sales, Xbox Live Gold).

 

[SLB1904]

Bro he was chatting pure gobbledegook - I'm glad he wasn't head of finance at PlayStation.

We already calculated this. And doesn't comes close to what Sony brings as it is.

Also ain't nobody getting 100mil subscribers let alone 500mil lol

 

[Nooblet]

Profitable without 1st party games in 2022 ?... not bad!

Twitter/forums is a bubble man, lots of console warring etc but most people just don't care. Just a series S and GP is enough for casual people.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Is an exec allowed to publicly say something is profitable if it isn't?

 

[Chukhopops]

Only 10% revenue, when u have all ur games day one on it, sounds terrible, WTF

"We're seeing incredibly growth on PC... on console I've seen growth slow down, mainly because at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe."

Where is the good news???

I love it, people invented and repeated this story for years that MS was betting the house on GP, that it was cannibalizing all their revenue and it was bad because it was replacing game sales, destroying the industry, etc.

Now they realize that there's still a lot of revenue coming from other sources and it's bad again because GP isn't 100% of their total revenue ?

Can you make up your mind please?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Bro he was chatting pure gobbledegook - I'm glad he wasn't head of finance at PlayStation.

That's a BS statement from Layden because if selling games the traditional way at $60 or $70 is always the right way to scoop up revenue and profits, then why do so many games do F2P? Sony even has GAAS games under development right now and some of them will probably be F2P too. Lets see if Factions 2 is $70.

The most profitable games out there are F2P games or ones that are dirt cheap to buy into.

He should know because Sony makes tons of money on that Grand Order Fate game (I think $4 billion revenue the past 4 years). That game is F2P. It's not even behind a cheap sub plan. It's straight up F2P.

 

[Gudji]

 

[amigastar]

Good to hear, just too bad Victoria 3 is not on game pass.

 

[Captain Toad]

What are the actual numbers then?

 

[FoxMcChief]

Good. Now acquire more devs so I can have it all!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Shawn was talking about releasing Sony's AAA funded games...

Fixed. There is a massive difference in money and return on Sony's AAA first party compared to MSs the past 10+ years, as well as a reason why Nintendo won't do it either. Infrastructure costs. Xbox can rest on MS's infrastructure.

 

[ReBurn]

Fixed. There is a massive difference in money and return on Sony's AAA first party compared to MSs the past 10+ years, as well as a reason why Nintendo won't do it either. Infrastructure costs. MS can rest on daddy's infrastructure.

Sony can rest on daddy's infrastructure, too. They've cuddled together a few times now.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony can rest on daddy's infrastructure, too. They've cuddled together a few times now.

For a price.

 

[ReBurn]

For a price.

Microsoft doesn't get their infrastructure for free. They certainly get it for less than Sony would, but it doesn't cost nothing. Besides, Sony already delivers content and streaming somehow. They're big enough to have their own infrastructure to rest on.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Nahh that same group doesn't believe him when he says positive things or when he says he plans on keeping COD on Playstation but when he says things like we may see a price increase thats gospel

Its all in how things fit into people's narrative

Profitable for Microsoft, but is it profitable for game developers?

https://twinfinite.net/2022/10/like-a-dragon-interview-producer/

Masayoshi Yokoyama: In terms of audience, I think the West has especially increased. It's hard to tell if that's thanks to multiplatform or if it's because we changed the genre and protagonist from Yakuza: Like a Dragon as a new series, or both. Personally, I do think subscriptions like Game Pass, allowing people to play the previous games over the years, have contributed largely to the increase in audience.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

 

[ecentre]

One way to make it more profitable is to reduce the cost for their in house developers and that is the reality and what will be more obvious as time goes bye I'm afraid.

 

[squidilix]

Profitable.... but maybe we can increase the price...

 

[synchronicity]

I see they've utilized my one-time 3 months for $1 sub very well. I'm impressed.

 

[Amiga]

Revenue =/= profit

totally different categories in financial reports. If "reporters" who spread this are oblivious to this then it's bad, to know and misinform deliberately would be worse.

 

[feynoob]

So my point was right.

Honestly gaffers need to go outside more.

Gamepass is broken in to multiple categories for revenue.

1: Subscription fees. Which increases as more users subscribe.

2: game sales. Any user that buys a gamepass game, would generate a revenue.

3: Mtx. This is the best revenue. Since most gamers aren't tracking their spending habits, it's easy for them to spend $60 on a mtx. Especially when the game is available on gamepass.

4: DlC. Gamepass doesn't give you dlc content, aside of complete games. So if you want to play the dlc, you need to buy it.

Since last gamepass revenue sub was at almost 3b. This means the rest would increase that revenue.

But this is just the beginning. The more users sub to the service, the more money it would make.

 

[Topher]

Went from sustainable to profitable in 1 year's time.

GG.

First time Spencer has said it so concisely. Good to hear.

Yeah the numbers will grow with it. Simple as that. It's not like the number of subscribers stay fixed is it

Any subscription service can rise or fall in subscribers from one month to the next.

 

[feynoob]

One way to make it more profitable is to reduce the cost for their in house developers and that is the reality and what will be more obvious as time goes bye I'm afraid.

I am amazed at the neogaf experts coming up with these bullshit stuff.

 

[Elios83]

Profitable in a year totally empty of first party releases is kinda easy.
It's the same thing that Sony wants to do with Playstation Extra.
The issue is that to continue to be profitable they'll need to raise prices and that on consoles they already hit saturation. Hence why no numbers and no 30 millions users announcement.

 

[feynoob]

First time Spencer has said it so concisely. Good to hear.



Any subscription service can rise or fall in subscribers from one month to the next.

Gamepass isn't normal subscription. It's an anomaly service. A hybrid if you will.

It has subscription, game sales, mtx and dlc. All these bring their own revenue, which increases the total revenue.

As we can see in gaming industry now, mtx is the biggest money maker. And gamepass having that means alot of money in the process.

 

[onnextflix5]

10-15% of total revenue, meaning there is still 85-90% more revenue left from the Gaming Division.

Who told you it's game pass' responsibility alone to cover the development costs of all Xbox games? The Xbox division together makes over $16 billion in revenue. Game Pass subscriptions is one of many means to pay for games being developed. As is third-party and first-party game revenues (game add-on/DLC sales, in-game transaction sales, Xbox Live Gold).

Problem is not that it's only currently 10% but he said won't grow above that, u Xbox fans won't see problem with that, but for everyone else it's a red flag,

And ur not going to comment on the second half of my post, I wonder why that is, they basically admitted growth has stalled on the console side,

 

[Topher]

Gamepass isn't normal subscription. It's an anomaly service. A hybrid if you will.

It has subscription, game sales, mtx and dlc. All these bring their own revenue, which increases the total revenue.

As we can see in gaming industry now, mtx is the biggest money maker. And gamepass having that means alot of money in the process.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

https://twinfinite.net/2022/10/like-a-dragon-interview-producer/

GP has a double effect on sales IMO. Not only can people try these low key games and buy them later, but just being on GP is a boost already because MS mentions it so every gamer who reads forums will know about the game. Not everyone is on GP, so just getting mentioned can be enough for non-sub gamers to notice it and maybe buy it.

All these noname indie games I'd never hear about if it wasnt for GP. It'd just be another $19.99 game buried in the tons of games listed in the e-store which I dont even click when I skim the store.

 

[Thebonehead]

For a price.

Phil eyeballing his next acquisition.

 

[feynoob]

Phil eyeballing his next acquisition.

He is a

 

[Oddvintagechap]

I want to see the magical numbers.

They said "will stay in that 10-15% of our overall revenue" … "at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe."

All I hear is we have to pivot to free to play.

 

[feynoob]

I want to see the magical numbers.

They said "will stay in that 10-15% of our overall revenue" … "at some point you've reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe."

All I hear is we have to pivot to free to play.

From 1$ screaming, to "I want to see the magic numbers".

What is with you guys and gamepass profits? This is the most unhealthy obsession relationship I ever seen in my life.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

From 1$ screaming, to "I want to see the magic numbers".

What is with you guys and gamepass profits? This is the most unhealthy obsession relationship I ever seen in my life.

go sign in your gaming instrument of choice and play some games.

To question and to ask for numbers isn't extreme.

 

[AJUMP23]

I wonder how much they make off of my reward points.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

From 1$ screaming, to "I want to see the magic numbers".

What is with you guys and gamepass profits? This is the most unhealthy obsession relationship I ever seen in my life.

It's the only thing they got to badmouth MS.

Oddly enough, Sony doesn't disclose profits from their PS+ plans or when PS Now was its own thing. Yet, I've never seen one Sony fan bring up profits or that "not disclosing it means PS sub plans are losing money". Sony didn't even update the PS Now user count in the final year of the service before it all got transitioned to the 3 new sub tiers. Never heard one Sony fan bring that up as a bad point.

They assume non-disclosure means bad financials.

If that's the case, PS+ is even worse than Game Pass. At least Phil said GP is profitable today. Sony has never disclosed their sub plans financials in detail. So gong by that, it loses money.

 

[feynoob]

go sign in your gaming instrument of choice and play some games.

To question and to ask for numbers isn't extreme.

No, but what is extreme is repeating the same shit, in a different tone everytime, when a new evidence comes out.

Plus, when do gamers care about this shit? What do they even do with those numbers?

 

[feynoob]

It's the only thing they got to badmouth MS.

Oddly enough, Sony doesn't disclose profits from their PS+ plans or when PS Now was its own thing. Yet, I've never seen one Sony fan bring up profits or that "not disclosing it means PS sub plans are losing money". Sony didn't even update the PS Now user count in the final year of the service before it all got transitioned to the 3 new sub tiers. Never heard one Sony fan bring that up as a bad point.

They assume non-disclosure means bad financials.

If that's the case, PS+ is even worse than Game Pass. At least Phil said GP is profitable today. Sony has never disclosed their sub plans financials in detail. So gong by that, it loses money.

They fell in to the rabbit hole of Sony argument against gamepass.

And because Phil is a suit. Everything he says is a lie.

 

[gothmog]

Not sure I believe him but I'm also not sure I care. If Phil and Satya lying to pad the sub numbers to get more people to jump on who cares?

 

[spons]

Just dump that streaming shit on every device imaginable. It's obviously not going to be on PlayStation or Switch/whatever Nintendo releases next, but they can absolutely pay TV manufacturers to install it by default. And the lack of an official Google TV app tells me Microsoft hasn't even started bringing out the big guns yet.

I can totally see PS Plus streaming hemorrhaging money like there's no tomorrow. Sony doesn't have their own Azure-like cloud platform, hell as far as I know it's mostly custom servers with literal PS3 hardware co-located in data centers across multiple countries. That costs $$$.

And I somewhat believe Phil Spencer because the stock holders would ravage Microsoft's shit if they're caught flat out lying about this.

 

[feynoob]

Not sure I believe him but I'm also not sure I care. If Phil and Satya lying to pad the sub numbers to get more people to jump on who cares?

It's illegal to lie to investors.

If he is lying, he is committing a criminal offense.

 

[reinking]

Gotta sell more consoles to get more subscribers. At least until their cloud stuff kicks in.

50% of Series S sold are new to the Xbox eco system. I would have expected that to increase console Game Pass subs.

 

[gothmog]

It's illegal to lie to investors.

If he is lying, he is committing a criminal offense.

It's illegal to outright lie, yes. It's not illegal to withhold exact numbers and exaggerate a bit to puff up your product.