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[Gamedude]

I know there is a lot of respect for the Pikmin franchise on this board, I already noticed that.
I bought myself this Friday Pikmin 2 (Europe), It's the first time I ever play the Pikmin franchise so it was my first confrontation with the pikmins. ^^
I never had the chance to play Pikmin 1 but I really wanted to play it, when Pikmin 2 came in Europa I thought it was thé moment to try the Pikmin franchise.
Anyway, I'm not that far at the moment.. I just met the yellow Pikmins in area 3, I do have respect for this franchise because Miyamoto probably knew this game wouldn't get the mainstream gamers attention because of it's "kiddy" look. (and don't get me wrong, I adore that kind of game)
Besides that the Pikmin franchise also gets my respect because of the outdoor areas where lots of atmosphere is, not to mention the detail in it: the outdoor places just feel alive.
now... like I already said I'm not that far into the game and I finished +- 4 dungeons yet, but damn I'm just disappointed in those dungeons.. they are just boring and it's always a big relief when they end. (what never can be a good thing in a game if you are happy when it's over)
Not to mention the looks of those (early) dungeons I played: they just don't have that atmosphere the outdoor areas have.
Now.. I heard that the later dungeons gets more complex and more fun, is that true?
I know that Pikmin 1 didn't have dungeons, only 5 outdoor areas what maybe is a positive thing for me because I enjoy myself more in the outdoor areas than in do in the dungeons.. (at the moment, maybe like I already said the dungeons get way better)
But if I think about the time limit in Pikmin 1: I just hate it when I feel rushed by some kind of time limit
So I was wondering, what do you guys think was the best Pikmin? if you need to give an overall critic. (+ just give an overall not to personal opinion: don't get me wrong, it's just normal if you first played Pikmin 1 you'll had more fun with it than you had with Pikmin 2 because of it's fresh feeling)

P.S: how many outdoor areas does Pikmin 2 have? I heard it has 4? Are they big?

 

[olimario]

I love the dungeons because of the focus on Pikmin in combat.
And I love Pikmin combat because it's like puzzle solving.

You have to see what kinds of enemies are on that level of the dungeon, then you have to figure out which to attack first and with what pikmin.
I absolutely love all of the dungeons in this game. They may not be designed terribly well, but the game design makes them fun.

 

[snapty00]

From what I've played, I hated the dungeons. I liked the outside areas much more. In the dungeons, I feel like my head is underwater or something. Really, I get heartburn even thinking about those dungeons. It's not really that they're difficult as it is just...boring.

Some of the later dungeons (especially in that area with all the red leaves and the Yield sign at the beginning) get really, really complex. Not necessarily more fun though, in my opinion.

 

[ge-man]

The first few dungeons aren't that interesting and most serve as an introduction to the dungeon system, but as you go farther the dungeons become more interesting (many are based on particular themes) and harder.

Yes, there are only four overworld areas (each represents a different season).

 

[Sriram]

I like the dungeons but they can be a bit boring sometimes (usually only one level though, good for getting nectar). Remember that all the dungeons are randomly generated aswell.

 

[bitwise]

i too thought the dungeons were rather tiresome, but I got addicted to the item collecting. So, it wasn't so bad.

 

[Prospero]

As far as randomly-generated gameplay extenders go, the dungeons weren't so bad (not as bad as Disgaea, for example, where some of the random dungeon levels would actually be unplayable). The only problem is that the difficulty level of the dungeons was too dependent on randomization--near the end, I'd load up a level four or five times in order to get a layout and enemy positioning that was favorable.

The overworld had far better design than the dungeons, but if the designers had stopped with those levels, insatiable gamers would have bitched about length like they did with Pikmin 1.

 

[Deku Tree]

I loved the dungeons. I thought they were the best addition to Pikmin 2. The early ones are there just to get you into it as others have already said. Personally, I think games should start on an easy note and get progressively more difficult. The later ones are very good. And some are very hard (no matter how many times you reload).

But if you don't want to be challenged I guess you can keep reloading a floor until you get an easy layout but only the layout will change and not the number or type of enemies.

I think Pikmin 2 is by far the better of the two games. In the later going the dungeons require you to use alot of strategy and resourcefulness, and they are hard!! The lvl design could have been better but it's great for being randomly generated. And the choice of enemies on each lvl is usually very well done. But if you don't like the dungeons try the first one.

 

[Dez]

I agree with you.. I was really put off by Pikmin 2's dungeons as well. I'm just a little farther than you (have blue pikmin now) but I bought the game at launch. I actually prefer the original Pikmin to this... eventually i'll finish it but right now i'm enthralled with Ninja Gaiden.

 

[ferricide]

but damn I'm just disappointed in those dungeons.. they are just boring and it's always a big relief when they end.

yep.

pikmin 2 is IMO the disappointment of the year.

 

[Gamedude]

I don't know if I'm the only one with this problem but is it just me or are the controls for turning the camera a b*tch in combat?
The best tactic to use if a beast is right in front of you is just aim for his back and let the pikmins do their work, after some damage you'll need to call them back with your whistle and repeat the progress.. those situations can be cool but I really have problems with turning the camera position to have a good view of the enemy's back.
I think they better used some kind of lock system like in Metroid Prime for example, so you can easily go around the enemy with your pikmins... though it can be me, maybe I just don't master those controls yet...

Another thing.. I was wondering, if I would finish Pikmin 2 and buy myself Pikmin 1.. will I still see new things and surprises? or can you roughly say the most of the enemy's of Pikmin 2 are similar to the ones of Pikmin 1?

 

[Gamedude]

anyone?

 

[Vlad]

I don't know if I'm the only one with this problem but is it just me or are the controls for turning the camera a b*tch in combat?
The best tactic to use if a beast is right in front of you is just aim for his back and let the pikmins do their work, after some damage you'll need to call them back with your whistle and repeat the progress.. those situations can be cool but I really have problems with turning the camera position to have a good view of the enemy's back.
I think they better used some kind of lock system like in Metroid Prime for example, so you can easily go around the enemy with your pikmins... though it can be me, maybe I just don't master those controls yet...

Another thing.. I was wondering, if I would finish Pikmin 2 and buy myself Pikmin 1.. will I still see new things and surprises? or can you roughly say the most of the enemy's of Pikmin 2 are similar to the ones of Pikmin 1?

As far as the camera goes, there isn't a control to turn it, so that may be why you're having problems turning it. All you can do is change the vertical angle between three different states, change the zoom, and snap the camera to behind you. If you really need to rotate it that badly, you can just turn your character to the direction you want to face and tap L.

As for the differences between the games, they're both good. I'm still playing through Pikmin 2 (I'm working through the fourth area now), and part of me does enjoy the original more. I think a big part of it is how there's no overall time limit in the second game. There's really no sense of urgency like there is in the first one, no reason to worry about gathering everything in time. As far as I can tell so far, you can just poke along at your own pace with no real penalty.

As far as the enemies go, the enemies in the original game are pretty much all ones you've seen in the second, including the boss-like creatures. Off the top of my head, there's only two enemies from the original game that I haven't seen in the sequel yet, and one of them I never even saw in the original, only in the credits! There's also a LOT more variety to the enemies in the second game.

However, the first game does have a leg up on the second as far as puzzles go. Pikmin 2 really has dropped the ball on that, as far as I'm concerned. As far as I can tell, I'm coming up near the end of the game, and there's really only been one puzzle that's given me any trouble, and that took all of a few minutes to figure out. There's not that many situations in the second game that require careful coordination of the different pikmin types, and there's at least a few parts in the original that stand out. However, the fighting aspect in the second game is a lot better, due to the increased variety of enemies, and the cave system.

 

[Gamedude]

As for the differences between the games, they're both good. I'm still playing through Pikmin 2 (I'm working through the fourth area now), and part of me does enjoy the original more. I think a big part of it is how there's no overall time limit in the second game. There's really no sense of urgency like there is in the first one, no reason to worry about gathering everything in time. As far as I can tell so far, you can just poke along at your own pace with no real penalty.

So you think the 30 days system was a positive thing about Pikmin 1? If I remembered well one of the biggest complains about Pikmin 1 was that 30 days system, was it hard to collect those parts in those 30 days? I can see the frustration if you don't collect all of the parts in those 30 days and a "Game Over" screen appears....

 

[Vlad]

So you think the 30 days system was a positive thing about Pikmin 1? If I remembered well one of the biggest complains about Pikmin 1 was that 30 days system, was it hard to collect those parts in those 30 days? I can see the frustration if you don't collect all of the parts in those 30 days and a "Game Over" screen appears....

I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority, but I really liked the 30 day limit. There really had to be some sort of Game Over condition, and since having Olimar's health run out just kills all your current Pikmin and tosses you to the end of the day, and losing all Pikmin of a certain color causes a single one to sprout anyway, I think the day limit gave the game a challenge. Sure, there are times where I would have liked to just putz around and explore, but all in all, I think the original game is better for having the limit.

On my first time through the first game, I managed to get every part but one by the time the 30th day rolled around. You can keep retrying from the start of the 30th day, but I was convinced that I couldn't get the last part in a single day. So I started over, getting back to where I was in about 12-15 days or so. Of course, I then managed to do what I needed to do before in a single day on my first try...

As far as what happens at the end of the 30 days (minor spoiler):

Spoiler

There's three different endings to the game, related to the parts you've collected. Most of the parts are considered crucial for the ship leaving, and if you have all of those by the time the 30th day rolls around, you get an ok ending. If you don't have all of the crucial parts, then you get a bad ending. If you manage to get all of the ship parts before the 30th day, you get the best ending.

That said, you still do have to start from the beginning if you don't make it in 30 days, but it's really not that bad, since at that point, you'll be able to breeze through the sections you've already done.

 

[ravingloon]

Wow. Having begun to put some heavy play into it, those random dungeons completely suck ass. I didn't even realize Pikmin had random dungeons when I bought it (Which I've ALWAYS hated, because random dungeons always suck due to their randomness. There's a reason companies pay for level designers), but they've really begun to piss me off. And WTF is with the darkness? You can't see more than 5 feet in front of you (And I'm not fucking with my tv brightness. It's calibrated with the Avia Guide to Home Theater and I'm not screwing with it for Pikmin. You HEAR me Nintendo?!). There's nothing that wants to to bash my Gamecube into pieces more than having one of those rock spitting bastards wipe out half my platoon because I couldn't see him on the screen and by the time the rock made it into the illuminated portion, it was just in time to see my ghosts float into the air. I SOOOO love the EAD designed levels, and could mildly tolerate the dungeons if I got more of the light dungeons (Have had 1 floor so far where you could actually see shit). But this tedium is bullshit. Length is not an asset if it's padded with gimmicks, and random levels have always been and always will be gimmicks I avoid due to their suckitude.

 

[Vlad]

Wow. Having begun to put some heavy play into it, those random dungeons completely suck ass. I didn't even realize Pikmin had random dungeons when I bought it (Which I've ALWAYS hated, because random dungeons always suck due to their randomness. There's a reason companies pay for level designers), but they've really begun to piss me off. And WTF is with the darkness? You can't see more than 5 feet in front of you (And I'm not fucking with my tv brightness.

As far as the brightness goes...

Spoiler

That gets completely remedied pretty early in the game. I don't remember exactly where, though

I didn't know the caves were randomly generated when I first started going through the game, either. It really got irritating when I got to a cave when I needed a certain color of Pikmin to get an item, and I was just one shy due to a bit of a mishap earlier. The item ended up being pretty close to the final floor, so I figured I could just take a small team of just the one color I needed and just run past all the enemies and obstacles.

I get to the floor I was at before and not only had everything moved around, but the item was behind an obstacle that needed an entirely different color! So I had to exit and start all over...

The dungeons do get better later on as the fighting gets more challenging, but it does still seem like a bit of a cop-out, and the above-ground areas are still way more pleasing to the eye and fun to play.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

As far as the brightness goes...

Spoiler

That gets completely remedied pretty early in the game. I don't remember exactly where, though

.

didn't have a problem with the dungeons - I tackled them at my own pace and they were pretty challenging and fun so yeah. Boss fights in Pikmin 2 rocked.

I actually didn't get the the above mentioned item cause I tackled the harder dungeons first. :| Didn't have a problem with the light level in rooms before though.

hee hee

 

[Red Dolphin]

I'm not that big a fan of the dungeons either. I much prefer the outdoor environments.

I too liked the 30-day limit of the original game. It was a nice challenge. My first time playing through Pikmin 1 I only missed out on getting the final spaceship part which meant I didn't get to see the best ending. So I enjoyed playing through the game again and making better use of my time.
I actually find in Pikmin 2, even without the 30 day limit, I still try to get the absolute most out of every day I can. Having 2 characters to control the Pikmin is really useful and a nice addition.

It's interesting to see bosses

Spoiler

from Pikmin 1 return in Pikmin 2 but much earlier in this game compared to the first. For example, the final boss of Pikmin 1 (which I found really tough) appeared quite early on in Pikmin 2 as a boss of one of the dungeons. I'm not sure what I did but I literally managed to kill him in under 10 seconds! I think it was because it ate some of my White Pikmin. I didn't realise they were so potent!

Still I'm quite enjoying the game. It's a nice game to play when you just want to relax.