Piracy - getting better or getting worse?

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Isn't funny how at the start of this generation, there was all this talk about how piracy protection was going to get much better? Microsoft had "military grade" encryption (our military is fucked :lol), Sony had supposedly learned their lesson, and Nintendo had a proprietary media that would stop warez kids in their tracks.

Now it's just a few years later and every single console has been cracked. Not only that, but every single one of them can run copied games without a mod chip or extensive hardware alteration. Every first party company is worse off than they were in the previous generation.

So where will things go with the launch of the next set of systems? With networking becoming a bigger and bigger part of gaming, is it even possible to secure new consoles? Can the errors of this generation be corrected, or will things continue to repeat as they have?
 
My brother-in-law was bitching once about prices for new games. I told him that it was because of pirates, and the fact that people needed to feed their families, but he still wouldn't budge on his stance. (Of course, he also thinks the world should cater to his every desire. Or something like that.)

As for the problem of piracy, I don't think there is a current solution. No matter what kind of copyright acts politicians push into law. Or what kind of encryption companies will use. Or even how cheap a game is, there will always people who don't feel they should pay for, or pay for high prices, software.

While I would understand stealing bread, I just will never understand stealing software.
 
border said:
Now it's just a few years later and every single console has been cracked. Not only that, but every single one of them can run copied games without a mod chip or extensive hardware alteration. Every first party company is worse off than they were in the previous generation.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't GC piracy still involve streaming data to the cube? I hadn't heard of a breakthrough in DVD-R recording GC ISOs.....the current solution of streaming data may be easy for the technologically savvy, but it's nowhere near the ease of piracy on PS2 or Xbox. GC survived extremely well this generation as far as video game piracy goes.
 
Blue ray and hd-dvd will stem piracy for a bit on next gen consoles. At least for a few years until the burners for each format go down in price.
 
Arluss said:
My brother-in-law was bitching once about prices for new games. I told him that it was because of pirates
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:rolleye+r Gaming has never been cheaper, prices have been the same for two generations now. Dont believe the hype. Games are this price now because of the inflated salaries of the ruling bodies of out of control companies and increasing production values. That is all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't GC piracy still involve streaming data to the cube? I hadn't heard of a breakthrough in DVD-R recording GC ISOs.....the current solution of streaming data may be easy for the technologically savvy, but it's nowhere near the ease of piracy on PS2 or Xbox. GC survived extremely well this generation as far as video game piracy goes.
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Yes they did. The modchip is called the Viper GC. It can boot mini-dvdrs in the normal case, and full sized dvd-r if you remove the top

Blue ray and hd-dvd will stem piracy for a bit on next gen consoles. At least for a few years until the burners for each format go down in price.
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I believe Pioneer Or NEC announced they are coming out with a new line of burners that burn every dvd format along with blu ray o_O
 
Naked Shuriken said:
:rolleyes Gaming has never been cheaper, prices have been the same for two generations now. Dont believe the hype. Games are this price now because of the inflated salaries of the ruling bodies of out of control companies and increasing production values. That is all.



Yes they did. The modchip is called the Viper GC. It can boot mini-dvdrs in the normal case, and full sized dvd-r if you remove the top
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I remember the Viper GC, I didn't know they managed to burn a readable ISO to a mini DVD-R though. And again, modchip and/or removing the top=extensive hardware modification.
 
the thing that really keeps piracy alive is that it's a profitable business too...
Pimpbaa said:
Blue ray and hd-dvd will stem piracy for a bit on next gen consoles. At least for a few years until the burners for each format go down in price.
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that depends on if you actually *have* to use that media for piracy, which isn't always the case...
for example, xbox games don't come on cd, yet cdrw works, and even cdr, as long as the game fits and the drive can read it... same thing for ps2, except sme ps2 games actually do come on cd...

DJ Demon J said:
I remember the Viper GC, I didn't know they managed to burn a readable ISO to a mini DVD-R though. And again, modchip and/or removing the top=extensive hardware modification.
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it's a 4 wire mod...
 
Well I'm sure Sony will be one of the first to release PC Blu-Ray drives, probably in time for the cracking of the PS3 security measures ;)
 
how does the PS2 play copied games without much modification?

And from what I understand, the DC's anti-piracy protection was laughable.
 
Nintendo is still one step below where they were with the N64 (which required those expensive and shady Hong Kong devices to run game roms).

I don't know if the Viper GC thing is real or not. Could be a hoax or just nonsense. They claimed that BBA+PSO users could stream the BIOS to their console and negate the need for a chip, but that sounded a bit farfetched.

The technology exists to run Gamecube executables off of SD cards without any hardware mods (search yesterday's threads for info). Apparently it's just for homebrews right now, but it won't be long before somebody hacks and exploits it.
 
Its getting worse and will continue to get worse. No system that you have physical access to is 'unbreakable,' that's just not possible. The best they can ever do is make it such a PITA that many people won't try.
 
Ecrofirt said:
how does the PS2 play copied games without much modification?

And from what I understand, the DC's anti-piracy protection was laughable.
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I wont say how, but you can play copied PS2 games without opening the console
 
DopeyFish said:
the "military grade security" quote came from J Allard describing Xbox Live, not Xbox itself.
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And even the encryption used with XBox Live can be hacked at this point - just in a 'non trivial' amount of time, and not worth it just to have a chance to change your XBox Live standings :)
 
HDD Loader will run most PS2 games, though for 100% compatibility you do have to install a chip I think.
Phoenix said:
No system that you have physical access to is 'unbreakable,' that's just not possible..
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Well you would think that they could at least get it to the point where people would have to crack open the system. Instead they seem to be going backwards, and it's actually getting easier to run games.
 
Ecrofirt said:
how does the PS2 play copied games without much modification?

And from what I understand, the DC's anti-piracy protection was laughable.
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The DC anti-pircy measures were good, but there was a feature that ended beeing a flaw, the ability to read CD+G discs, that's how they managed the boot disc and the direct boot copies, with the next models (R7 sakura DC for example) that feature was removed and you could no longer play backups
 
border said:
Nintendo is still one step below where they were with the N64 (which required those expensive and shady Hong Kong devices to run game roms).

I don't know if the Viper GC thing is real or not. Could be a hoax or just nonsense. They claimed that BBA+PSO users could stream the BIOS to their console and negate the need for a chip, but that sounded a bit farfetched.

The technology exists to run Gamecube executables off of SD cards without any hardware mods (search yesterday's threads for info). Apparently it's just for homebrews right now, but it won't be long before somebody hacks and exploits it.
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the problem with the cube is that even with the viper/cobra, it' still technically streaming...

they just haven't been able to break the barcode/dvdrom firmware scheme, so the cobra is just a bootloader that (without getting technical) streams the data off the dvdrom, but not in a direct access sort of way, so it still has issues, just like streaming with the bba...

any sd card mod that somehow manags to run games would face the same problems, plus i have also heard the memory cards are on a slower bus too, so loading time could be a problem as well...

and from what i have heard, the cobra bios is encrypted using undocumented features of the viper chip, making it hard to decrypt...
 
A lot of the pirates are either the college and under age group or Asia bootlegs businessmens; those who don't have money or those who wants to make money in areas where companies don't reach. Until these two problems are addressed, piracy will exist.
 
The Gamecube was piracy-free for quite a while, and even now I think it's rather difficult to pirate games. Not 100% sure on that though.

I don't think piracy protection is getting any better, but who cares? Why bitch that some people get free games? Let them enjoy them
 
Consoles with mod free piracy

PS2
- original Japanese PS2 with utility disc (swap method)
- swap magic
- HDloader
- various knife/cog tricks

GCN
- streaming isos via bba - new loader to be released which allows 100mbit speeds

XBox
- various sound/font exploits

So yes all of them have been hacked via mod free methods and all of them have been (or will be) chipped to allow direct booting of backup media (GCN Viper bios is 100% working although not direct boot *yet*).

Next gen I expect most of the first PS3 (not sure about Revolution or XBox2) games to ship on DVD5 or DVD9 media. The fact that PS3 will be backwards compatible and that it is by and far the most popular and lucrative (to modchip makers) console brand also leads me to believe that it will be relatively short time before it is cracked (say 6 months).

The modchip industry has matured considerably since the N64 days and it is now BIG business AND legal in many parts of the world so depending on how you look at it piracy is and will continue to get ''better'.
 
Well, Sony's protection has always been laughable,. However, with any new console, as long new consoles can connect to the internet, the people will just use that portal to get to what they need to know
 
Sucks so bad. Adding harddrives was the best idea, and opened up a ton of opportunities for developers to exploit... and now because of fricken piracy, none of the next systems will have it. PStwo's won't even work with the PS2 harddrive.
 
um... just wanted to say

PS2+XBOX

piracy = modchip + hdd/copies (which you get a) burn yourself b) DL).
The piracy on these two consoles are rampant and insane

GC

you practically need a engineering degree to get it working and its not perfect + the crack/breakthrough came really late. When folks list the GC as a pirated console, please don't forget it too ages to crack the lunchbox; and key to the difficulty was the media.

DS (future..)

It'll be interesting to see how THIS gets pirated. The touch screen + mic input makes it a woozy

PSP

media is the key (unless you can rip games to mem stick)... This will be a fun one.
 
Odnetnin said:
DS (future..)

It'll be interesting to see how THIS gets pirated. The touch screen + mic input makes it a woozy
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I dont know how touch screen + mic relates to how difficult it is to pirate. I guess you're talking about emulation, but even then it's not going to be a problem (mouse + microphone)
 
Wario64 said:
I dont know how touch screen + mic relates to how difficult it is to pirate. I guess you're talking about emulation, but even then it's not going to be a problem (mouse + microphone)
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yeah. Emulated. I know you get flashcarts and the DS is probably going to be really easy to pirate in that instance. The GBA is also pirate heaven. That said, gba/ds piracy imo will be niche. Not many people know about flashcarts
 
Probably less in North America but the expanding Asian Markets are Pirate Heaven. Europe Seems to have more Piracy now than it did last gen as well.
 
Odnetnin said:
DS (future..)

It'll be interesting to see how THIS gets pirated. The touch screen + mic input makes it a woozy
Click to expand...

flashcart... and pc's have mice and mic's...
hold mouse button to press down stylus...

Odnetnin said:
PSP

media is the key (unless you can rip games to mem stick)... This will be a fun one.
Click to expand...

will most likely have to be memstick...
weren't the TGS units reportedly running games from memstick?
 
Fularu said:
The DC anti-pircy measures were good, but there was a feature that ended beeing a flaw, the ability to read CD+G discs, that's how they managed the boot disc and the direct boot copies, with the next models (R7 sakura DC for example) that feature was removed and you could no longer play backups
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Any idea how likely you are to get a DC that can play copied games from EB or GameStop?

I've wanted to get one for awhile now, but there's no chance of me consistantly playing scratched used games. I'm planning on ripping and burning them.

So would I probably end up getting a DC that can't play burned games, or one that could?
 
Asian markets are learning how to fight piracy, games, vcd/dvd's are dirt cheap for legit ones (even tho still more expensive than pirate ones), music cds come with nice packaging and small gifts that pirated/downloaded versions don't (well, i guess people who support specific artists would buy the legit ones anyways).

I guess these methods would only be feasible when their target market is flooded with piracy tho.
 
I don't think it's getting worse or better-- there is always going to be something for pirates to mess with in videogame hardware, software, or both. The more extreme the methods companies use to fight piracy the more legit consumers get fucked in the ass (coughsteamcough).

And anyone that thinks if piracy didn't exist games would be cheaper is smoking a 30 foot long crack pipe.
 
I remember paying 40 dollars to 50 dollars for video games back when a pack of gum was a quarter and comic books were 60 cents. So, gaming has never been cheaper.


I paid 40 dollars for NES "Deadly Towers". Oh woe is me.
 
I think it's time to go back to carts. With todays advances in bus speeds and memory prices it should be possible to put out a cart system that matches optical drives speed and access abilities. It wouldn't stop priacy, you can't do that, but it will make it a far more expensive proposition to do so. The drive that allowed people to play pirated N64 games was almost as expensive as the N64 itself. Plus the tools and know how needed to rip the games are beyond the average persons ability.
 
I am against using bizarre (or whatever word you want to use) media formats for the purposes of fighting piracy. It's a total fuck-you to the legit consumer. Piracy control needs to come after the game is made, not before. Use whatever format you can make the best games on.
 
Speaking of Swap discs and soft mods, are there any easy ways to play import PS2 and Xbox games through a swap disc of some sort?
 
Rlan said:
Speaking of Swap discs and soft mods, are there any easy ways to play import PS2 and Xbox games through a swap disc of some sort?
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you can ~sort of~ play original PS2 imports with HDLoader... by making a copy of the game on PC then transferring it to the HDD...
 
ShadowRed said:
I think it's time to go back to carts. With todays advances in bus speeds and memory prices it should be possible to put out a cart system that matches optical drives speed and access abilities. It wouldn't stop priacy, you can't do that, but it will make it a far more expensive proposition to do so. The drive that allowed people to play pirated N64 games was almost as expensive as the N64 itself. Plus the tools and know how needed to rip the games are beyond the average persons ability.
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Technology has gotten a LOT cheaper since then as well. I'd give it 6 months before someone figured out how to exploit the network stack to bypass cart reading or created a dummy cart that allowed information to be streamed to the console via a hard drive or internet(my choice).

Going back to carts to prevent piracy would be a fools errand. Anyone with physical access to the machine will figure out how to bypass all the mechanisms you put in place. That's jsut the way of things. So long as it interacts with the outside world and receives data from the outside world - the system is exploitable.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the fact that the Cube took so long to crack was because the pirates simply didn't care?

I mean, piracy is much more rampant in Asia than anywhere else in the world and hence the demand for modchips. However, the Cube's presence in Asia is laughable. Could it be because the pirates simply don't see the profit in cracking the Cube?
 
next-gen consoles will most likely have secruity features built into the cpu itself, so you won't be able to just slap on a chip and have a modded xbox 2/ps3. It is enough for MS and Sony to prevent widespread piracy ala modchips rather than to try to make the console totally unbreakable. They don't care if some guy spends 1 months to hack his xbox 2 and the hack works ONLY on his xbox 2, since it's not easily repeatable as modchips are. And they are very well going to make any kind of hack with a modchip impossible, if they're not stupid.
 
ElyrionX said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the fact that the Cube took so long to crack was because the pirates simply didn't care?

I mean, piracy is much more rampant in Asia than anywhere else in the world and hence the demand for modchips. However, the Cube's presence in Asia is laughable. Could it be because the pirates simply don't see the profit in cracking the Cube?
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you're wrong
 
thorns said:
next-gen consoles will most likely have secruity features built into the cpu itself, so you won't be able to just slap on a chip and have a modded xbox 2/ps3. It is enough for MS and Sony to prevent widespread piracy ala modchips rather than to try to make the console totally unbreakable. They don't care if some guy spends 1 months to hack his xbox 2 and the hack works ONLY on his xbox 2, since it's not easily repeatable as modchips are. And they are very well going to make any kind of hack with a modchip impossible, if they're not stupid.
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Isn't MS using vanilla AMD Athlon64 CPUs in XBOX2? That means they can't really hardwire anti-puracy measures into the silicon.. I don't know about Cell.. But still, if that was a possibility they would have done it in this generation and the previous one as well. Somehow, I think it would be futile.. Eventually someone would find out what it is that the CPU checks and manage to spoof it.
 
What's the word on the HDLoader for the PStwo and usb 2.0 externals?
 
ElyrionX said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the fact that the Cube took so long to crack was because the pirates simply didn't care?

I mean, piracy is much more rampant in Asia than anywhere else in the world and hence the demand for modchips. However, the Cube's presence in Asia is laughable. Could it be because the pirates simply don't see the profit in cracking the Cube?
Click to expand...

I would say you were right.

In Europe and Asia where there is the biggest demand for modchips and where most modchip manufacturers/distributors are based there has been little demand for GCN piracy and conversely a HUGE demand for Playstation chips.

Just like any other industry the market demand dictates the product and the most lucrative product is Playstation modchips and this is where most of the R&D is invested in.
 
tahrikmili said:
Isn't MS using vanilla AMD Athlon64 CPUs in XBOX2? That means they can't really hardwire anti-puracy measures into the silicon.. I don't know about Cell.. But still, if that was a possibility they would have done it in this generation and the previous one as well. Somehow, I think it would be futile.. Eventually someone would find out what it is that the CPU checks and manage to spoof it.
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Xenon is supposed to used a customized PowerPC cpu made by IBM
 
tahrikmili said:
Isn't MS using vanilla AMD Athlon64 CPUs in XBOX2? That means they can't really hardwire anti-puracy measures into the silicon.. I don't know about Cell.. But still, if that was a possibility they would have done it in this generation and the previous one as well. Somehow, I think it would be futile.. Eventually someone would find out what it is that the CPU checks and manage to spoof it.
Click to expand...

it's supposed to have 3 3.5ghz powerpc cores on a single die, along with unified memory, it's totally a custom design.. from the leaked document:

The Xenon CPU was designed by IBM in close consultation with the Xbox team, leading to a number of revolutionary additions, including a dot product instruction for extremely fast vector math and custom security features built directly into the silicon to prevent piracy and hacking.
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