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[Alexander DeLarge]

First and foremost, I just wanted to give my input regarding Take Two's most recent action against modders. As an industry professional that got my start in modding, I just want to say that what Take Two has done against the creators of OpenIV/GTA-MP/FiveM is beyond reprehensible and the actions against the OpenIV project is all a facade to target alternative multiplayer projects which is what ultimately resulted in the incredibly popular "role playing" phenomenon on Twitch.

This is nothing new. If you don't remember, Take Two sent private investigators to the homes of FiveM/GTA-MP's creators and ceased the projects for a time until FiveM came back and an alternative to GTA-MP was created. On a side note, I can't imagine how much more popular these would've been if Take Two/Rockstar hadn't screwed with them during the year of release on PC.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015...two-sent-private-investigators-to-their-home/
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/GTA-5-Alternative-Multiplayer-Has-Shut-Down-98147.html

Here is Rockstar's statement regarding the cease & desist from the other day.

"Take-Two's actions were not specifically targeting single player mods. Unfortunately OpenIV enables recent malicious mods that allow harassment of players and interfere with the GTA Online experience for everybody. We are working to figure out how we can continue to support the creative community without negatively impacting our players."

The idea that OpenIV was being used to cheat in GTA:Online is not only preposterous, it's demonstrably untrue considering how the OpenIV developers went out of their way to not only ensure that only single player was moddable, they also followed Russia's civil code regarding reverse engineering and didn't distribute any of Rockstar's data. I can't help but compare this to FiveM again which was targeted for "facilitating piracy" despite the game emulating GTA multiplayer using entirely custom code and the single player portion of the game as a base. It also authenticated whether the user owned the game or not (and after sending private investigators to their homes incident, they were banned from the GTA:Online service).
https://www.pcgamesn.com/grand-thef...layer-mod-claims-it-can-facilitate-piracy?amp

Ultimately, projects like SAMP, Multi Theft Auto, CitizenIV, OpenIV and FiveM all belong in the same category because they secure a kind of longevity and a future that frankly Rockstar's own developments can't by design. I can't possibly stress enough that these alternatives appeal to an entirely different audience than GTA Online's official service does in the same way that Garry's Mod appeals to a far different audience than what Half-Life 2 Deathmatch did back in the day. Hasn't Take Two noticed that GTA5 has been trending on Twitch for the past couple months BECAUSE of FiveM which authenticates whether the user is a legitimate owner of GTAV, resulting in more sales? If they're so concerned by people who want a different kind of experience not buying their shark cards, why hasn't Rockstar hired some of these individuals or adopted some of the concepts that modders clearly care about and have been offering long before Rockstar even gave us a multiplayer component in their games. Give is an SDK, give us self-hosted servers so we can ban these damn cheaters, give us lua scripting support so we can create role playing/Battle Royale/Day-Z survival scenario gamemodes.

I find it absolutely disgusting that Rockstar has been playing both sides of the fence on the issue. They highlight popular mods on social media but they ban modders. They say they're only targeting cheaters and piracy but they target a tool that has absolutely nothing to do with cheats and a multiplayer alternative that checks for pirates and I feel I should quote Boris, creator of the ENB mod when I say that Rockstar is no friend of the modding community.

Rockstar did everything to prevent modding of GTA5, so at this moment impossible to do anything via editing game files.

Fortunately this statement is no longer true thanks to OpenIV but I have the feeling we're going to be screwed on future titles. The solution? Valve had the right idea with Dota2, they have the main game and they've given us extensive modding support. Despite this, it's still monetized because people are buying skins for the heroes they use in Pudge Wars/Dota Race (which is basically Mario Kart and it's awesome) for example. It's a win-win for everyone and most imporwe don't have Valve attacking modders because it "goes against their interests". Why can't Rockstar do that? I'd gladly buy a silly hat for use on the role playing server I play on and according to the chat that I just asked, others would too.

Edit: Did someone edit my title? I have no idea where "please ignore" came from.

 

[CountAntonius]

Yeah it's bullshit because GTA Online has been full of cheaters on both console and PC for years. They just don't want to see people gravitate towards MUCH better online experiences where they can't sell their shark cards. Given the recent popularity of Five RP the timing of these actions make it pretty clear.

 

[Jebusman]

Edit: Did someone edit my title? I have no idea where "please ignore" came from.

Maybe a thread title filter? The same way "PSA" gets filtered to stop people from using it.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Maybe a thread title filter? The same way "PSA" gets filtered to stop people from using it.

Damn, I didn't even think about that. Hopefully a mod can change it to the one used in the thread (unfortunately it won't change on the front page).

Yeah it's bullshit because GTA Online has been full of cheaters on both console and PC for years. They just don't want to see people gravitate towards MUCH better online experiences where they can't sell their shark cards. Given the recent popularity of Five RP the timing of these actions make it pretty clear.

It's beyond my comprehension how Take Two can own a studio like Firaxis and treat modders like this. I really hope they change their stance given the backlash.
https://twitter.com/pcgamer/status/875858028955922432

 

[Aztechnology]

Damn, I didn't even think about that. Hopefully a mod can change it to the one used in the thread (unfortunately it won't change on the front page).



It's beyond my comprehension how Take Two can own a studio like Firaxis and treat modders like this. I really hope they change their stance given the backlash.

At least it kind of works. I read it as "Please ignore T2/Rockstar's bullshit excuse they gave for cracking down on modding."

 

[OrlanisWorks]

I much agree with you. They clearly have an agenda to protect their huge moneymaker and I totally understand it. What I don't really see is those mods interfering with their flow.

It really is a bullshit excuse to go after that mod tool, as you have explained well. Completely uncalled for and also extremely difficult to fight due to the cost of a legal battle. I still hope this isn't the end of GTAV modding.

 

[Nick_C]

I think it's a "two birds, one stone" type attack they're going for here.

1:

Yeah it's bullshit because GTA Online has been full of cheaters on both console and PC for years. They just don't want to see people gravitate towards MUCH better online experiences where they can't sell their shark cards. Given the recent popularity of Five RP the timing of these actions make it pretty clear.

As recently as a couple of weeks ago, Strauss Zelnick (Take Two CEO) stated that their company could be making more money from their userbase. Shutting down as many alternatives to GTAO could theoretically force those users to return to their game (I think this is BS because those people left to find something R* weren't providing), increasing the chances that they would spend money on GTAO's in-game currency.

2:

I much agree with you. They clearly have an agenda to protect their huge moneymaker and I totally understand it. What I don't really see is those mods interfering with their flow.

It really is a bullshit excuse to go after that mod tool, as you have explained well. Completely uncalled for and also extremely difficult to fight due to the cost of a legal battle. I still hope this isn't the end of GTAV modding.

This could be the equivalent to taking down the biggest dog in the yard. These mods/modding tools are very popular and extremely visible. By shutting these down, Take Two could be "sending a message" to smaller, less known mods and modders to stop doing what they're doing.

 

[Durante]

At least it kind of works. I read it as "Please ignore T2/Rockstar's bullshit excuse they gave for cracking down on modding."

Yeah, that's also how I read it.

And of course I fully agree with the OP.

 

[Abilidebob]

Thank you, OP. I've seen WAY too many people here on GAF that just ate the shit that Taketwo said and kept regurgitating the same "well it's used for cheating so it should be stopped". Hope that can slap some sense in those people.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Well I mean, just like Sony blocking crossplay... It's just business. Stop bullying them guys. *Sniff*

 

[HeeHo]

Yeah it's bullshit because GTA Online has been full of cheaters on both console and PC for years. They just don't want to see people gravitate towards MUCH better online experiences where they can't sell their shark cards. Given the recent popularity of Five RP the timing of these actions make it pretty clear.

So true. I have played a lot of GTA online with friends and it is pretty bad in terms of appealing content when it comes to missions - which is the bread and butter of how you make money in the game. My friends and I begrudgingly did the missions to earn money and exp, NOT because it is fun. It's not.

The only redeeming quality is that online lobbies are fun but even then it is a costly experience in terms of your in-game money. I have lost millions killing people and blowing up their cars on accident and on purpose. I could get better at it and just shoot them I guess, but sometimes you need to get payback fast and dirty.

Before GTA online, you would totally think Rockstar would be the one who was mocking these kinds of business practices in their parody radio shows.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

While I've never liked GTA and don't intend to ever buy one of the games I DO very much enjoy modding in other games... This sets a bad precedent for modding in general if people let this go. Please don't let this go.

I'll do my part and continue to not buy GTA, which is their biggest franchise right?

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Rockstar's handling of GTA Online has sapped away all of the goodwill I have ever had for them.

 

[Lima]

I swear if they shut down FiveM and the whole insanely popular RPsene goes with it I'm gonna be livid. I want to continue to watch Sheriff Eli you fuckers.

 

[JetSetRadio]

I love my clean GTAO on ps4 (so far, fingers crossed but it wouldn't really matter as we're nearing the end if a map expansion isn't coming). Lastgen is a shithole and I wouldn't touch pc with a 10 foot pole either.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

OpenIV replied to Rockstar's statement by the way.

OpenIV, Liberty City in GTA V and all other mods/projects from my team and me are only specific for Single player. Rockstar must be well aware about the fact that you cannot access GTA Online while you have installed any OpenIV mod:

The statement "Unfortunately OpenIV enables recent malicious mods that allow harassment of players and interfere with the GTA Online experience for everybody", is just wrong and they know it. OpenIV does not allows or supports any kind of GTA Online mods. We always supported Rockstar in their right to protect GTA Online from hacks and cheats. But, Take-Two's C&D was specific for out Singleplayer mods and have no mentions about GTA Online. "

https://forums.gta5-mods.com/topic/11981/rockstar-gave-response-and-openiv-team-replied/2

At least it kind of works. I read it as "Please ignore T2/Rockstar's bullshit excuse they gave for cracking down on modding."

Yeah it's a convenient unintended title haha.

 

[Magwik]

I wouldn't touch pc with a 10 foot pole either.

Why?

 

[Akai__]

Yeah, that's also how I read it.

And of course I fully agree with the OP.

Same.

I swear if they shut down FiveM and the whole insanely popular RPsene goes with it I'm gonna be livid. I want to continue to watch Sheriff Eli you fuckers.

Yep. I want to continue watching the incredible RP scene, as well. It's outright incredible what people are doing and how well they are doing it.

Fuck Take 2, especially if they go after FiveM and the RP servers.

 

[LelouchZero]

OP, I totally agree.

I love my clean GTAO on ps4 (so far, fingers crossed but it wouldn't really matter as we're nearing the end if a map expansion isn't coming). Lastgen is a shithole and I wouldn't touch pc with a 10 foot pole either.

You come to a thread about the PC version of GTA V, focused on the community's disapproval of Take-Two's actions against modding to say that you love your "clean GTAO on PS4" and that you wouldn't touch the PC version? Did you post in the wrong thread?

 

[MUnited83]

I love my clean GTAO on ps4 (so far, fingers crossed but it wouldn't really matter as we're nearing the end if a map expansion isn't coming). Lastgen is a shithole and I wouldn't touch pc with a 10 foot pole either.

That's a bit weird, since PC is the only version with a good online mode available.

 

[Dmented]

OP, I totally agree.



You come to a thread about the PC version of GTA V, focused on the community's disapproval of Take-Two's actions against modding to say that you love your "clean GTAO on PS4" and that you wouldn't touch the PC version? Did you post in the wrong thread?

No, just a drive-by console warrior shitpost. It happens, nothing you can do about it.

 

[Rojiraan]

It's cool to see people around the web acting against this sad story.
BTW, thanks OP, first I was thinking that since the shutdown of GTA : MP and FiveM, nothing new happened. Sure I heard about the recent GTA RP thing, but I was thinking that it was a simple mod using directly GTA Online. Now I'm discovering that dedicated server on GTAV is still a thing. That's damn wonderful.

Now all we need is a "Protect the Prime Minister" server with 100 players ! 🎉🙏

 

[Tecnniqe]

Well I mean, just like Sony blocking crossplay... It's just business. Stop bullying them guys. *Sniff*

Yeah they're just protecting their userbase and kids from all these other pirate/cheaters/modders who can ruin the experience of giving T2 more money.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

It's cool to see people around the web acting against this sad story.
BTW, thanks OP, first I was thinking that since the shutdown of GTA : MP and FiveM, nothing new happened. Sure I heard about the recent GTA RP thing, but I was thinking that it was a simple mod using directly GTA Online. Now I'm discovering that dedicated server on GTAV is still a thing. That's damn wonderful.

Now all we need is a "Protect the Prime Minister" server with 100 players ! 🎉🙏

It's not quite to the point where we're at 100 player servers yet but the difference between servers/gamemodes last week and this week is pretty staggering. Last night I was just playing GTA5: Battle Royale and there were 40 people. A couple weeks ago it was incredibly unstable with more than 24 people in a server.

Definitely check it out, there's custom gamemodes (very much like Multi Theft Auto/Garry's Mod), custom maps and custom assets (thanks to OpenIV). Unfortunately Take Two has already gone after the Liberty City in GTA5 mod and the Red Dead Redemption map port (which would've been used for Western roleplay/survival gamemodes).

https://www.vg247.com/2017/04/22/re...-cancelled-after-being-contacted-by-take-two/

 

[Tye The Czar]

Yeah. Take2's being extra douchey with their fans right now.

 

[Knurek]

Well, Alexander, it's just that FAROpenIV is weaponizing Steam's API to harm GTA5 MP users. Do you think this is the sort of thing Steam or Rockstar should be supporting?

Spoiler

Take2 are shitheads for doing that, no doubt about it.

 

[Rojiraan]

Definitely check it out, there's custom gamemodes (very much like Multi Theft Auto/Garry's Mod), custom maps and custom assets (thanks to OpenIV). Unfortunately Take Two has already gone after the Liberty City in GTA5 mod and the Red Dead Redemption map port (which would've been used for Western roleplay/survival gamemodes).

Wooow, okay, sounds like I miss a lot of things about the GTA 5 modding community recently haha, thanks a lot for the information. I'm about to reinstall GTA 5

Rockstar/Take Two really need to do something. I don't want to see these multiplayer projects taken down either.

 

[OmegaDL50]

I love my clean GTAO on ps4 (so far, fingers crossed but it wouldn't really matter as we're nearing the end if a map expansion isn't coming). Lastgen is a shithole and I wouldn't touch pc with a 10 foot pole either.

Are you even aware that OpenIV can't be used with GTA Online. In fact it's a Single player mod and it's use prevents access to GTA Online, but considering you made your platform warrior shitpost, it's evident you aren't.

Can you even distinguish the difference between "mods" and "cheats"

I'll give you chance to actually guess which of the two is actually being discussed in this thread.

 

[tearsintherain]

Its unfortunate that GTA 5's environment is so "rich", feels like it would have just been so much better if the modding community worked off a game that is more open to mods. I guess one of the problems is there isn't really a fantastic, feature rich, multiplayer accessible game that does have all the features and quirks and stuff of GTA 5 - Saints Row 4 or Just Cause 2/3 would probably not care at all about people modding their games, but they don't have the same online environment as GTA 5.

Ultimately its hard to really be objective about it. Take 2 runs an extremely lucrative business running GTA 5 Online, and a modded game would be "stealing" from that business. Now, is it the game owners right to do whatever they want with their copy of the game? Sure, but the GTA Online assets that Rockstar wrote are meant only for their servers, so it does seem kinda sleazy to "mod" it to work on free servers. Not many people here would totally support open World of Warcraft or Destiny or FF14 servers, so why would GTA5 be different?

Frankly I'd love for a Playerunknown battlegrounds style of GTA 5 to be made by someone, that doesn't have a SP campaign but has a giant open world map and a ton of small features and options, and lets individual servers run their own maps, modes, etc. I guess its a ton of work but I have to imagine with the popularity of GTA 5 RP something like that would sell like hotcakes. There is probably something like that on steam now, just hasn't bubbled up to that level of popularity?

 

[Arulan]

You come to a thread about the PC version of GTA V, focused on the community's disapproval of Take-Two's actions against modding to say that you love your "clean GTAO on PS4" and that you wouldn't touch the PC version? Did you post in the wrong thread?

Also known as shitposting.

Their actions against modding express plainly that they do not value the PC community, but their own financial interests. I'm glad I don't own Grand Theft Auto V.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Its unfortunate that GTA 5's environment is so "rich", feels like it would have just been so much better if the modding community worked off a game that is more open to mods. I guess one of the problems is there isn't really a fantastic, feature rich, multiplayer accessible game that does have all the features and quirks and stuff of GTA 5 - Saints Row 4 or Just Cause 2/3 would probably not care at all about people modding their games, but they don't have the same online environment as GTA 5.

Ultimately its hard to really be objective about it. Take 2 runs an extremely lucrative business running GTA 5 Online, and a modded game would be "stealing" from that business. Now, is it the game owners right to do whatever they want with their copy of the game? Sure, but the GTA Online assets that Rockstar wrote are meant only for their servers, so it does seem kinda sleazy to "mod" it to work on free servers. Not many people here would totally support open World of Warcraft or Destiny or FF14 servers, so why would GTA5 be different?

Frankly I'd love for a Playerunknown battlegrounds style of GTA 5 to be made by someone, that doesn't have a SP campaign but has a giant open world map and a ton of small features and options, and lets individual servers run their own maps, modes, etc. I guess its a ton of work but I have to imagine with the popularity of GTA 5 RP something like that would sell like hotcakes. There is probably something like that on steam now, just hasn't bubbled up to that level of popularity?

If the T2 or Rockstar gave the tools to the player along the lines that Bethesda does with Skyrim and its Creation Kit.

It could have a much stronger presence even beyond the base game experience. Skyrim is still one of the most played games on Steam and it's mainly due to it's strong modding community on the Nexus. Being able to have new locations to explore, new heists, new vehicles to drive, all new missions.

These sorts of things could give a perpetual life to the game long after people are tired with the vanilla content.

A shame T2 doesn't see it this way and just wants to chase the whales and that shark card money.

 

[Aztechnology]

I love my clean GTAO on ps4 (so far, fingers crossed but it wouldn't really matter as we're nearing the end if a map expansion isn't coming). Lastgen is a shithole and I wouldn't touch pc with a 10 foot pole either.

So are you saying you support TakeTwo in their actions then or that you don't like mods? I don't understand what your position is other than you don't like PC and you like "Clean GTAO".

 

[StrawberryJam]

T2's stance on this is making me wary of purchasing their games in future. Don't know if I'm overreacting slightly, but it just feels like a pretty aggressive stance to take against your own fans.

 

[jabuseika]

Yeah, really not interested in anything from Take2 from this point on.

Too bad Rockstar gets dragged down with them.

 

[LordRaptor]

I love my clean GTAO on ps4 (so far, fingers crossed but it wouldn't really matter as we're nearing the end if a map expansion isn't coming). Lastgen is a shithole and I wouldn't touch pc with a 10 foot pole either.

Has username of a game based entirely around unauthorised music and street art in defiance of a corporate totalitarian dystopia

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

If the T2 or Rockstar gave the tools to the player along the lines that Bethesda does with Skyrim and its Creation Kit.

It could have a much stronger presence even beyond the base game experience. Skyrim is still one of the most played games on Steam and it's mainly due to it's strong modding community on the Nexus. Being able to have new locations to explore, new heists, new vehicles to drive, all new missions.

These sorts of things could give a perpetual life to the game long after people are tired with the vanilla content.

A shame T2 doesn't see it this way and just wants to chase the whales and that shark card money.

What good is giving more life to a game if you aren't making money from it? Rockstar wants to make money, plain and simple.

 

[OmegaDL50]

What good is giving more life to a game if you aren't making money from it? Rockstar wants to make money, plain and simple.

Are you saying there is something wrong with having additional content or user made mods without a price tag attached to them? I highly doubt you'd turn away additional content released after a game's launch simply on the basis that it's not being paid for.

There really isn't any position one can defend Rockstar for the anti-modding crusade outside of the specific cases which it has a negative effect on user base of GTA Online. What one does in their own single player campaign has absolutely no effect to impede another person's enjoyment of the game.

See the great thing with mod content is that it's entirely optional for the individual to use or not. Folks have the choice to play the game in the vanilla experience or fully modded if they so desire.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

Are you saying there is something wrong with having additional content or user made mods without a price tag attached to them? I highly doubt you'd turn away additional content released after a game's launch simply on the basis that it's not being paid for.

There really isn't any position one can defend Rockstar for the anti-modding crusade outside of the specific cases which it has a negative effect on user base of GTA Online. What one does in their own single player campaign has absolutely no effect to impede another person's enjoyment of the game.

See the great thing with mod content is that it's entirely optional for the individual to use or not. Folks have the choice to play the game in the vanilla experience or fully modded if they so desire.

I'm seeing posts that state the mods are in a way allowing people to access things in multiplayer that they shouldn't. If that's the case then I'm 100% behind Rockstar.

Also it's their product and if they don't want people using it in ways outside what they intended then it's their right to try and stop it. I've ALWAYS held the position that you purchased what the developer provided and they are under no obligation to support or allow modifications to their product if they don't want to.

Rockstar is a business and if not allowing these mods allows them to make more money then I understand where they are coming from.

 

[TheAdmiester]

I'm seeing posts that state the mods are in a way allowing people to access things in multiplayer that they shouldn't. If that's the case then I'm 100% behind Rockstar.

That isn't the case.

 

[jetjevons]

I love my clean GTAO on ps4 (so far, fingers crossed but it wouldn't really matter as we're nearing the end if a map expansion isn't coming). Lastgen is a shithole and I wouldn't touch pc with a 10 foot pole either.

I read this to mean he wouldn't play on PC because of the proliferation of cheaters. Versus PS4.

 

[The Flash]

Yeah I'm not buying into Take Two's side of the story at all.

 

[Neverforget]

Between Bethesda wanting paid mods and Take2 outright issuing bans and harassment. We are truly living the golden age of PC gaming!

Greed gave us unfinished games with additional paid content, then paid fan made mods, than no mods at all.

Next on PC gaming news, you have to provide your DNA, half of your income and getting a government grant to play at all. You heard it here first boys!

 

[Jawmuncher]

The whole situation is pretty shitty. Definitely on the side of modders though. Really feels like T2 just being mad they aren't getting a lot of shark cash bought on pc since the online content compared to mods is trash.

Still say the should offer "premium" mods like Bethesda is doing and have the shark cash able to buy them. Have that work between all the consoles too. They'd get more than trying to get people to pay for more worthless MP knick knacks

 

[Mr. Phellps]

God, I remember having such a blast playing SA-MP. There was a Role Playing server that was really fun too.
It's a shame Rockstar is going after these projects, but not surprising.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Just tried to sideload a handful of GTA5 clientside user scripts and go online with them

This is what happened.

 

[Arulan]

.

 

[Raptomex]

I'm not a multiplayer guy but I find it amazing what modders can do. Take-Two needs to stop this nonsense. Let people have fucking fun. Can't they see mods are a big part of what keeps GTA games alive? I revisit almost every game in the series annually just to check out mods.

I'm seeing posts that state the mods are in a way allowing people to access things in multiplayer that they shouldn't. If that's the case then I'm 100% behind Rockstar.

Also it's their product and if they don't want people using it in ways outside what they intended then it's their right to try and stop it. I've ALWAYS held the position that you purchased what the developer provided and they are under no obligation to support or allow modifications to their product if they don't want to.

Rockstar is a business and if not allowing these mods allows them to make more money then I understand where they are coming from.

Well that's tough shit. I think once you legally purchase the game, you can do whatever you want with the files. Whether they like it or not, if I legally own the game and if I want to mess with the files I should be able to and technically I could (if I had the skill set, of course). However, the only reason they give a shit is because it's pouring into the online community and affecting the cashflow (I guess). Now I understand where they're coming from in that aspect and I agree cheating needs to be stopped. But if people are creating their own mods that don't interfere with GTAO, they should live and let live. Players have been modding GTA games for years and as far as I know nobody has said anything. The only reason they care now is because of GTAO. GTAO = $. They're all pissy because people are enjoying the game outside of the way it was intended, and I believe that mods like FiveM don't actually interfere with GTAO. It is it's own thing. I personally use single player mods and never touch online.