Police probe finds no evidence Freddie Gray was fatally injured during arrest

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A preliminary probe has found no evidence that 25-year-old Freddie Gray was fatally injured during his videotaped arrest in Baltimore, a local ABC affiliate reported on Thursday, citing sources briefed on the police report and on findings made by the medical examiner.

The medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he was slammed into back of the police transport van and apparently broke his neck. Law enforcement sources also said Gray sustained a head injury that matches bolt in the back of police van, the affiliate reported.

Gray's death a week after his arrest sparked violent protests over police treatment of minorities. The police report was not released to the public, but handed over on Thursday to the city's chief prosecutor. The U.S. Department of Justice has also launched an investigation into Gray's death.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/30/us-usa-police-baltimore-idUSKBN0NL1GO20150430
 
But isn't the outrage that he went into the van fine and came out unconscious with an 80% severed spine?

We already knew it didn't happen during the arrest itself, it happened while in custody.
 
But how? His spine severed itself?


EDIT: just during the arrest itself then? Are they splitting hairs or will they come out and say "there was evidence found Freddie Gray was injured during transport"?
 
BlackGoku03 said:
But how? His spine severed itself?


EDIT: just during the arrest itself then? Are they splitting hairs or will they come out and say "there was evidence found Freddie Gray was injured during transport"?
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That's actually an important distinction because it's about culpability as well.
 
Mike M said:
But isn't the outrage that he went into the van fine and came out unconscious with an 80% severed spine?

We already knew it didn't happen during the arrest itself, it happened while in custody.
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Did we? I thought there was still some confusion about how much he was injured during the actual arrest. :

BALTIMORE, Md. (WUSA9) -- A witness to the arrest of Freddie Gray claims Gray was crying out that police officers were injuring him during the arrest.

"I heard this boy hollering and screaming," said Harold Perry.Perry said he heard the commotion near his home in the 1700 block of Presbury St. where the arrest occurred.

"You're hurting my neck! You're hurting my neck! Get your knee out my back!", Perry recalled.

Perry claims in an exclusive interview with WUSA9 that police shouted at Gray to "shut the f--- up."
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And you can see when they're putting him in the van he's in visible pain.
 
i heard on the news that another inmate said that it was ''self inflicted'' while he was going bonkers inside the vehicle

surprised he wasn't covered in crack sprinkles
 
They were saying on CNN there was another person in custody in the police van who is claiming it seemed like Gray was banging his head against the wall of the van in an attempt to injure himself. Don't know if that would be enough to sever one's spine though, you'd have to be smashing your head pretty hard, at which point there would be all sorts of lacerations and such to your head.
 
Dishwalla said:
They were saying on CNN there was another person in custody in the police van who is claiming it seemed like Gray was banging his head against the wall of the van in an attempt to injure himself. Don't know if that would be enough to sever one's spine though, you'd have to be smashing your head pretty hard, at which point there would be all sorts of lacerations and such to your head.
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Yeah, I seriously doubt that he injured himself that much from doing that.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it happened in transport. My co-worker was explaining how a friend of his still has a giant scar on his forehead from when he was arrested, handcuffed, and put in the back of the van without any restraint like a seatbelt. Then they drove around 40 mph and slammed on the brakes which of course sent him flying in to the van wall with little way to brace/protect himself, which is how his head was bashed. This is in Baltimore btw.


EDIT:
DECK'ARD said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/30/us-usa-police-baltimore-idUSKBN0NL1GO20150430
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Well there you go.
 
The mental willpower it takes to commit suicide by slamming your head into a wall until you sever your spine seems pretty incredible. I'll just say that I'm fairly doubtful he was able to do that.
 
Dishwalla said:
They were saying on CNN there was another person in custody in the police van who is claiming it seemed like Gray was banging his head against the wall of the van in an attempt to injure himself. Don't know if that would be enough to sever one's spine though, you'd have to be smashing your head pretty hard, at which point there would be all sorts of lacerations and such to your head.
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Yeah. And nothing has been mentioned of anything like that, right?
 
I find it amazing, that during Ferguson, countless people were saying you can't trust what bystanders/witnesses said about the shooting. Even when multiple people came out to say almost the same thing.

But now, all of a sudden, that dude that was in the van, his story is the word of god?
 
Read more. It implicates that he was injured due to being thrown around the back of the van.
 
Is there video of the full arrest?

I thought the investigation took too long to start, and a store camera which might have caught it was taped over.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ithout-force-or-incident-before-fatal-injury/
“They had him in a crab-like position, where his legs were bent back and his arms,” an unnamed witness told WBAL-TV. “He was handcuffed, and at that point, they had knees in his back and his head.”
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He could have been initially injured in the arrest (which seems likely given how he looked when they threw him in the van). Then, by their own admission, they cuffed and shackled him during the ride, but did not buckle him in. Known as a "rough ride", "nickel ride", "screen test", etc. Someone who had already sustained some degree of injury, asked and been denied medical attention, could then be more vulnerable to severe injury during the rough ride.
 
Soka said:
The mental willpower it takes to commit suicide by slamming your head into a wall until you sever your spine seems pretty incredible. I'll just say that I'm fairly doubtful he was able to do that.
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Seriously, usually people who have committed suicide try to do it quickly.
 
They really shouldn't have buried the dude so quickly and waited for a second autopsy.

But I really can't say anything since the family is going through the grieving process.
 
So how does a "bolt mark to the back of the neck" explain crushed larynx? And how would he have had access to said bolt if he was strapped in? In the confined space, is it scientifically plausible that a bound suspect can generate the velocity to snap ones neck? If he was just arrested for carrying a legal questionable knife, what is the motive for him injuring himself to such a degree?
 
Chococat said:
So how does a "bolt mark to the back of the neck" explain crushed larynx? And how would he have had access to said bolt if he was strapped in? In the confined space, is it scientifically plausible that a bound suspect can generate the velocity to snap ones neck? If he was just arrested for carrying a legal questionable knife, what is the motive for him injuring himself to such a degree?
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Hes black, no one cares, and no one is going to look into it. See everyone next thread. none of it makes sense.
 
Chococat said:
So how does a "bolt mark to the back of the neck" explain crushed larynx? And how would he have had access to said bolt if he was strapped in? In the confined space, is it scientifically plausible that a bound suspect can generate the velocity to snap ones neck? If he was just arrested for carrying a legal questionable knife, what is the motive for him injuring himself to such a degree?
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Physics. He was in a moving van in a container full of metal. He wasn't buckled in.
 
Dishwalla said:
They were saying on CNN there was another person in custody in the police van who is claiming it seemed like Gray was banging his head against the wall of the van in an attempt to injure himself. Don't know if that would be enough to sever one's spine though, you'd have to be smashing your head pretty hard, at which point there would be all sorts of lacerations and such to your head.
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how does he differentiate him banging his head and him being thrown around due to being restrained without a seatbelt if he can't see him ?
 
Poudini said:
how does he differentiate him banging his head and him being thrown around due to being restrained without a seatbelt if he can't see him ?
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It doesn't and seems to corroborate the theory that he might have broken his neck from the force of being thrown around the van. Then again if I was dying I'd probably hit the wall to make attention as well.
 
Poudini said:
how does he differentiate him banging his head and him being thrown around due to being restrained without a seatbelt if he can't see him ?
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Well if Gray was banging around the van and the other prisoner wasn't(not saying he wasn't; has anything come out if he was stationary or not during his ride?), I don't think that would be the movements of the van.
 
foxuzamaki said:
Seriously, usually people who have committed suicide try to do it quickly.
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Presumably the spin isn't that he was trying to commit suicide, but just trying to rough himself up enough to get a fat payday from the settlement.

Which he planned to split with his welfare queen baby mama while somehow being an absent father or something.
I don't know if he has a baby mama or whatnot: just exaggerating the angle. Being racist is fun and easy!
 
If he was "banging his head" in the back of the van, could it have been a seizure? Can a person have a seizure after sustaining physical trauma (like falling and hitting their head or having some people rough them up)?
 
SnakeSlashRO said:
Stuff like this has been going on, its all coming to the surface thanks to cameras, phones and internet. Something will have to change...
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Snake, people shouldn't need fucking video to act. People had testimony, cases, incidents, etc.. This has been going on forever. The only thing video does is make someone realize how precisely bad it is, however, no one cares that black people get no justice. No one cares that their fellow citizens have been targeted by the War on Drugs, and the corrupt justice system. I don't need video to realize how bad the Palestinians have it.

Its draining to know that, even with video, its the same outcome. America has looked the other way this entire time. Video is just salt in the every-day-wound of being black. We shouldn't have to make a fucking case, or get a 'message' out, when the message is basic human rights. Other people should think that its a bad thing to kill black people, without repercussions. Its a basic thing, if you need a video to convince you that black people should be treated equally, ultimately, you're not going to be convinced by a video. If you've been on the fence this whole fucking time, if you never looked into the issue, if you never gave a shit until now, how much are you really going to do about it?

These things are simple for anyone to look into. The fact is that no one wanted to, this entire time. There was no movement, no legislation made by any of our political representation. No effort has been made-pre-video-era. And as we are seeing with videos, the outcome is identical to not having a video due to the bias America has against black people. We don't qualify for equal rights, and thats the reality today. Video, sure. I'm just watching people get killed in HD now, while people still justify it, and move on with their lives.


Trojita said:
You don't realize how vulnerable the neck is? It's certainly enough force. He had handcuffs on which would prevent him from shielding some of the force with his hands.
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There will always be a Trojita justifying the loss of rights for black people. It mirrors the population at large that will rationalize why black people always get the short end of the stick with the justice system, and the people directly responsible aren't held responsible, ever. As long as that exists, there will never be a population that sees something wrong here. Its always justified.

Always.

Even with the protests, I really do believe that most Americans think the blacks are just going crazy again, and no one even understands or knows why people are upset.
 
Dishwalla said:
Well if Gray was banging around the van and the other prisoner wasn't(not saying he wasn't; has anything come out if he was stationary or not during his ride?), I don't think that would be the movements of the van.
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There's a metal partition inside. We know Gray wasn't seatbelted. The other person may have been seat belted. He was also picked up after the 4th stop, which doesn't account for the whole timeline.
 
Dishwalla said:
Well if Gray was banging around the van and the other prisoner wasn't(not saying he wasn't; has anything come out if he was stationary or not during his ride?), I don't think that would be the movements of the van.
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I was implying that the other one did have a seatbelt

commedieu said:
There will always be a Trojita justifying the loss of rights for black people. It mirrors the population at large that will rationalize why black people always get the short end of the stick with the justice system, and the people directly responsible aren't held responsible, ever. As long as that exists, there will never be a population that sees something wrong here. Its always justified.

Always.
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I don't think he's rationalizing anything, knowingly letting him without a seatbelt through a rough ride would be as much of a hate crime as beating him down with a stick, the only difference being the cop doesn't literally end up with bloody hands.
 
I highly doubt Gray tried to self injure. It takes something else entirely to purposefully bash your head into a hard surface. Also he was arrested with a switch blade which doesn't carry quite as many penalties as some of the charges he has had before. There's no reason to think he was trying to commit suicide.
 
BlackGoku03 said:
EDIT: just during the arrest itself then? Are they splitting hairs or will they come out and say "there was evidence found Freddie Gray was injured during transport"?
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Well the report says there's evidence that suggests it occured post-arrest in the back of the van. This article is saying it just didn't happen during the VIDEOTAPED arrest.

My guess is the article is presented this way in order to generate clicks.
 
So is this how they kill the case? Lie about some mysterious witness that popped up all of a sudden to corroborate the police's version of what happened? Sickening man.
 
You know I could've believed their story for a minute that they purposefully slammed him around a metal confinement and shattered his neck and spine while already detained after a violent arrest. Quite an honest assessment of their murder.

Then they gotta go add on that little note/rumor that, oh he may have been doing it to himself on purpose. He just accidentally committed suicide in the back of our vehicle!
 
Link said:
I certainly feel better knowing the police have cleared themselves of wrongdoing.
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It's important to remember in these cases that by virtue of possessing the government monopoly on legal force, the police as an institution will never hold themselves accountable for anything and have no actual incentive to offer even a vaguely plausible explanation for events. These recent cases have demonstrated quite clearly that cover-ups of police misconduct aren't the actions of rogue agents, they're the default and reflexive response of these organizations.
 
I mean at best (for the police) it's negligence so nothing is invalidated. Lots of changes need to happen and people are free to remain pissed off.
 
Another video has also come up from someone claiming to be a relative of one of the cops in the video. Apparently that cop and the relative present in the interview believes that he was injured before being put in the van. They are worried that all 6 cops will be charged for something only 2 or 3 people did.

There's any easy way to solve that problem and it isn't keeping quiet. Someone did something to him and they know it. Keeping quiet doesn't help them.

Excerpt below

The woman who spoke to CNN did so on the condition of anonymity. She is related to the officer but said the officer didn't request the interview.
Officer's family member: There are some bad apples

Officer's family member: There are some bad apples 05:56
PLAY VIDEO

The relative said she worries all six of the officers who encountered Gray, 25, during his April 12 arrest will be incriminated when only some might be responsible.

"Six officers did not injure this man," she said. "Six officers didn't put him in the hospital. I'm worried that instead of them figuring out who did, that six officers are going to be punished behind something that maybe one or two or even three officers may have done to Freddie Gray."

She also told CNN that the officer doesn't know how Gray was injured but said he believes it happened during the arrest.

"He believes that Freddie Gray was injured outside the paddy wagon," the relative said.

She also gave an explanation of why Gray was not buckled into the police van: He appeared belligerent.

"They didn't want to reach over him. You were in a tight space in the paddy wagon. He's already irate," she said.

"He still has his teeth, and he still has his saliva. So in order to seat-belt somebody you have to get in their personal space. They're not going to get in his personal space if he's already irate."
Relative of officer involved speaks out about Freddie Gray case

Relative of officer involved speaks out about Freddie Gray case 04:10
PLAY VIDEO

Batts, the police commissioner, has said Gray should have been buckled in.

"We know he was not buckled in the transport wagon, as he should've been. No excuses for that, period," Batts said last week.

As for when Gray suffered a severe spinal injury, Batts said there was "potential" it could have happened either in or outside the police van.
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