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[eznark]

I'm all for shitting on pats fan, but that's bad bad form man, and it has nothing to do with anything.

p.s.
1. Slavery.

I personally think it does. There are events and actions that countries can and do initiate that result in events that "gamble away the future" and there have been things in our lifetime that are significantly worse that a debt ceiling negotiation. That someone thinks it could "never get this bad" is baffling and myopic.

Over the past month we've seen a gradual move towards an inevitable deal as a result of these negotiations. The problem (or saving grace) of this particular negotiation is that there is a drop dead date of 8/2. We all know when this is going to get done, and we all know when we realistically have to start panicking (hint: not today). For either side to cave and admit defeat before they absolutely have to would be foolish.

The best part is that you guys think your side is getting gutted and giving up, while I listened to some shitty talk radio host in Madison who was convinced her side (tea partiers) were getting fucked.

It's a matter of perspective, and too many in this thread have lost it.

 

[Bishman]

I'm independent, but it's really hard to not hate fucking Republicans right now who refuse - despite independent economists and national wide polls supporting cuts AND tax revenue - to compromise.

I'm really fucking sick of this "protect the rich" tax philosophy, with the lame ass reasoning that taxing the rich hurts businesses and prevents jobs being created.

Guess what? They've had these fucking cuts for years now. WHERE ARE THE JOBS AT THEN DUMBASSES? If your philosophy for high income tax breaks was so fucking correct, then the economy should be rolling right now right???

John Maynard Keynes is rolling in his grave at this shit.

People will smarten up once we default and see that it was the Republicans fault. Then 2012 elections come along, the majority will be thrown out. Democrats swing back into power a la '06, '08.

 

[mckmas8808]

Kind of sucks when the rabid monster you created bites you on the ass. I think he'll eventually get the votes, though.

Why? 59 GOP members have spoken out about not signing ANY debt limit increase. Why would they change their minds at the last minute?

 

[richiek]

I'm independent, but it's really hard to not hate fucking Republicans right now who refuse - despite independent economists and national wide polls supporting cuts AND tax revenue - to compromise.

I'm really fucking sick of this "protect the rich" tax philosophy, with the lame ass reasoning that taxing the rich hurts businesses and prevents jobs being created.

Guess what? They've had these fucking cuts for years now. WHERE ARE THE JOBS AT THEN DUMBASSES? If your philosophy for high income tax breaks was so fucking correct, then the economy should be rolling right now right???

John Maynard Keynes is rolling in his grave at this shit.

Obligatory:

 

[Plinko]

Man, there is just some horrible economic news out there. One economist is predicting a massive drop in retail sales and there's also a story about how employers are discriminating against people who have been unemployed for more than 6 months.

All the while, corporate profits and cash funds are at the highest in over a decade.

Something just isn't right about that.

 

[Chichikov]

People will smarten up once we default and see that it was the Republicans fault. Then 2012 elections come along, the majority will be thrown out. Democrats swing back into power a la '06, '08.

Here's my counter prediction -
Obama gonna sign a massive cut deal with no revenue increase, the GOP will vote against it or just complain a whole lot.
It will further depress the economy, because austerity in a recession doesn't work (look at England), and Obama will get the blame.

I personally think it does. There are events and actions that countries can and do initiate that result in events that "gamble away the future" and there have been things in our lifetime that are significantly worse that a debt ceiling negotiation. That someone thinks it could "never get this bad" is baffling and myopic.

Over the past month we've seen a gradual move towards an inevitable deal as a result of these negotiations. The problem (or saving grace) of this particular negotiation is that there is a drop dead date of 8/2. We all know when this is going to get done, and we all know when we realistically have to start panicking (hint: not today). For either side to cave and admit defeat before they absolutely have to would be foolish.

For the most part, I agree.
You should've said that instead of the "yeah? well your grandparents were Nazis" response.

The best part is that you guys think your side is getting gutted and giving up, while I listened to some shitty talk radio host in Madison who was convinced her side (tea partiers) were getting fucked.

It's a matter of perspective, and too many in this thread have lost it.

Do you honestly believe that?
I'm seriously asking.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Man, there is just some horrible economic news out there. One economist is predicting a massive drop in retail sales and there's also a story about how employers are discriminating against people who have been unemployed for more than 6 months.

All the while, corporate profits and cash funds are at the highest in over a decade.

Something just isn't right about that.

Welcome to the jobless recovery.

 

[mckmas8808]

technically, yes, but Obama and Republicans want to complicate things for political posturing going forward.

Actually Obama said that he'd sign a clean bill.

 

[Chichikov]

Something just isn't right about that.

Taxes are too high.

 

[eznark]

For the most part, I agree.
You should've said that instead of the "yeah? well your grandparents were Nazis" response.

gotta maintain the rep! (I was eating lunch)

Do you honestly believe that?
I'm seriously asking.

Do I honestly believe what? That both sides' true believers feel like they are getting screwed? Of course.

It feels like the GOP is definitely winning this particular tug of war, but the same could be said immediately preceding ObamaCare and even to some extent TARP and the auto bailouts.

What it truly shows is that deep down everyone is on my side and hates and mistrusts politicians and expects that at any moment Washington will piss in their eye.

 

[gcubed]

gotta maintain the rep! (I was eating lunch)


Do I honestly believe what? That both sides' true believers feel like they are getting screwed? Of course.

It feels like the GOP is definitely winning this particular tug of war, but the same could be said immediately preceding ObamaCare and even to some extent TARP and the auto bailouts.

What it truly shows is that deep down everyone is on my side and hates and mistrusts politicians and expects that at any moment Washington will piss in their eye.

i dont think its very deep down

 

[eznark]

i dont think its very deep down

My hope is that Obama opened a whole lot of young eyes to the reality of politicians. When you realize your savior is a shit heel it takes a long time to trust again (or Aaron Rodgers coming along and sweeping you off your feet!)

 

[Oblivion]

Ooh, interesting:

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) delivered a blunt message to the Republican Conference Tuesday morning: Quit the “grumbling” and “whining” and come together to rally behind Speaker John Boehner to pass his debt ceiling plan.

:O

http://dailykos.com/story/2011/07/2...ining-and-start-supporting-Boehner?via=blog_1

 

[A Human Becoming]

No. What you are talking about is a budget plan, which has nothing to do with the debt limit. We're talking about raising the debt limit. Republicans will vote no on a bill that raises the debt limit. They are the only reason the debt limit is not raised right now. No other reason. You don't need a plan to raise the debt limit. You just have to vote yes on a bill that raises the debt limit. The Republicans refuse to do it.

I know the two are separate, but wasn't Boehner only willing to get it raised if they agreed to his plan? Hasn't he said it needs to be raised, while the Tea Party Caucaus doesn't want it to be? They make up what, 60 people in the House?

 

[Cyan]

My hope is that Obama opened a whole lot of young eyes to the reality of politicians. When you realize your savior is a shit heel it takes a long time to trust again (or Aaron Rodgers coming along and sweeping you off your feet!)

Sorry, what? I saw "Aaron Rodgers" and the rest of your post faded into invisibility.

 

[Averon]

Ooh, interesting:



:O

http://dailykos.com/story/2011/07/2...ining-and-start-supporting-Boehner?via=blog_1

Boehner and Cantor can't control the tea-party faction. Pressuring them to get on board will likely have the opposite effect.

 

[mckmas8808]

Boehner and Cantor can't control the tea-party faction. Pressuring them to get on board will likely have the opposite effect.

Hmmm......I wonder. If Cantor is begging them to do it, I can see the tea party Congress members signing on now.

 

[timetokill]

One economist is predicting a massive drop in retail sales and there's also a story about how employers are discriminating against people who have been unemployed for more than 6 months.

There've been several stories about this for a long while now. It's definitely not new.
That's why it's always so wonderful when anybody talks about a "recovery."

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I know the two are separate, but wasn't Boehner only willing to get it raised if they agreed to his plan? Hasn't he said it needs to be raised, while the Tea Party Caucaus doesn't want it to be? They make up what, 60 people in the House?

that 60 people can actually stop the GOP from doing anything.

If they don't get any Democrats, the GOP needs a little under half of those 60 Tea Party members to pass anything.

And since 59 of them said they won't pass any bill that raises the ceiling, Boehner may be forced to work to try and pick up the twenty something votes he needs to pass anything by appealing to Democrats.

But he has not shown any willingness to do this.

 

[Azih]

The discussion was about why poor/middle class people are for lower taxation on the rich.
Which is –

• Not true
• Not directly related to welfare (even if the only thing you’re funding is war, there is still the question of who pay what).

The question as far as I'm concerned is not so much whether the poor/middle class are *for* lower taxes on the rich as it is *why don't they vote for higher taxes on the rich then*.

Which is what the comments on messaging are addressing.

 

[Dude Abides]

My hope is that Obama opened a whole lot of young eyes to the reality of politicians. When you realize your savior is a shit heel it takes a long time to trust again (or Scott Walker coming along and sweeping you off your feet!)

Fixt.

 

[gcubed]

Sorry, what? I saw "Aaron Rodgers" and the rest of your post faded into invisibility.

both his post and Aaron Rodgers are overrated

 

[eznark]

Fixt.

I've posted a bunch of negative stories on Walker. I just like that I called his victory 4 years ago on here (and was laughed at by the two or three other Wisconsin people).

both his post and Aaron Rodgers are overrated

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

They. Don't. Care.

Polls show the public would hold the GOP liable for default. Polls also show they have a wildly unpopular position by insisting the wealthy pay no new taxes in a deficit reduction bill. No fucks have yet been given.

That is because there is no ceiling for how many fucks don´t get given

Spoiler

 

[TacticalFox88]

Ooh, interesting:



:O

http://dailykos.com/story/2011/07/2...ining-and-start-supporting-Boehner?via=blog_1

I'll still be cynical until something fucking passes. Fuck Gridlock politics

 

[GhaleonEB]

Ooh, interesting:

:O

http://dailykos.com/story/2011/07/2...ining-and-start-supporting-Boehner?via=blog_1

He's the whip, he's just whipping.

 

[mckmas8808]

There've been several stories about this for a long while now. It's definitely not new.
That's why it's always so wonderful when anybody talks about a "recovery."

People talk about a "recovery" because the economy is rated (if you want to use that word) by more things than just employment.

If you pull back and look at the whole picture our economy has been in a slow/tepid recovery for almost 2 years.

 

[eznark]

He's the whip, he's just whipping.

He isn't the whip anymore, he's Majority Leader

 

[Suikoguy]

People talk about a "recovery" because the economy is rated (if you want to use that word) by more things than just employment.

If you pull back and look at the whole picture our economy has been in a slow/tepid recovery for almost 2 years.

Yep, and that's a whole different issue. Namely, increase of employee workload with threat of replacement, and additional automation investment.

 

[Chichikov]

The question as far as I'm concerned is not so much whether the poor/middle class are *for* lower taxes on the rich as it is *why don't they vote for higher taxes on the rich then*.

Because we only have two parties in this country, and neither support that (well, the dems say they do, but talk is cheap).

 

[TacticalFox88]

People talk about a "recovery" because the economy is rated (if you want to use that word) by more things than just employment.

If you pull back and look at the whole picture our economy has been in a slow/tepid recovery for almost 2 years.

Technically, even if the economy was measured solely on jobs, it'd be a "recovery" also, since it has steadily been going down since Obama took office.

 

[GhaleonEB]

He isn't the whip anymore, he's Majority Leader

Heh. In effect, yup. But he also carries a whip.

 

[eznark]

Heh. In effect, yup. But he also carries a whip.

Are you not intimidated!

 

[Patrick Klepek]

Does the Boehner vote happen today?

 

[PhoenixDark]

both his post and Aaron Rodgers are overrated

You wouldn't say that if had to face him twice a season : /

 

[Chichikov]

You wouldn't say that if had to face him twice a season : /

I faced eznark more than twice last season, and I fucking swept him.

 

[eznark]

Here is how you get tea partiers to vote for the Boehner plan, promise a veto!

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...07/obama-team-urges-boehner-reid-compromise/1

Not a chance in hell Obama has that kind of backbone.

 

[mckmas8808]

Here is how you get tea partiers to vote for the Boehner plan, promise a veto!

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...07/obama-team-urges-boehner-reid-compromise/1

Not a chance in hell Obama has that kind of backbone.

At this point I think he would. But lets be real it ain't even passing the Senate. It's easy for him to say this because he knows it's not going to come to his desk.

 

[ToxicAdam]

promise a veto!

Consipicuously absent in his remarks from last night.

 

[Diablos]

Boehner plan is still six months, right?

Fuck that, DON'T VOTE

 

[scorcho]

Consipicuously absent in his remarks from last night.

but not today - http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/07/26/business/AP-US-Debt-Showdown.html

but as mentioned, there's no reason for Obama to threaten to veto a bill that would never pass the Senate anyhow.

 

[Diablos]

People will smarten up once we default and see that it was the Republicans fault. Then 2012 elections come along, the majority will be thrown out. Democrats swing back into power a la '06, '08.

Fuck no. If anything it would be the other way around. If the GOP is brave enough (despite opposition from basically everyone but their House majority) to allow default to occur, they will make damn sure Obama takes the blame for it.

Best case scenario for 2012 is basically: Obama gets re-elected but the Senate gets taken over by Republicans. Democrats overtake some of the teatards' seats in the House, gaining anywhere from 10-30 seats. It won't be enough for a majority since Republicans got like 60+ last year. Would be pretty shocking despite GOP antics if the Dems completely wiped that away or came anywhere close.

The Senate is a lost cause, so you better be hoping like hell Obama gets re-elected. It'll be more gridlock than ever before, but the executive branch will at least keep the GOP from truly going forward with a destructive agenda.

 

[slit]

Fuck no. If anything it would be the other way around.

Best case scenario for 2012 is basically: Obama gets re-elected but the Senate gets taken over by Republicans. Democrats overtake some of the teatards' seats in the House, gaining anywhere from 10-30 seats. It won't be enough for a majority since Republicans got like 60+ last year. Would be pretty shocking despite GOP antics if the Dems completely wiped that away or came anywhere close.

The Senate is a lost cause, so you better be hoping like hell Obama gets re-elected. It'll be more gridlock than ever before, but the executive branch will at least keep the GOP from truly going forward with a destructive agenda.

Your math is off. They only need like a net gain of 24 or 25 to regain majority.

 

[Diablos]

Ah, shit. Still. Takeover of the House seems highly unlikely. If the country defaults it gets pinned on Obama.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Consipicuously absent in his remarks from last night.

Not really. Last night I heard the president mention he would not support a short term extension of only 6 months. Boehner's plan contains this, and so he is doing what he promised. Who really supports a short term extension. Only reason to have one or not is political. The issue should be settled and not be fought again till after the elections, when people have a chance to make their voice heard. That seems fair to me.

 

[Diablos]

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2011/07/26/gop-reject-debt-deal-to-sabotage-obama-trump/

Off-and-on Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump feels Republicans should reject a debt ceiling deal because the resulting default will sabotage President Obama’s reelection in 2012.

“Absolutely the Republicans have the leverage — I don’t care about the polls,” The Donald said on the friendly confines of Fox News.

“When it comes time to default, they’re not going to remember any of the Republicans’ names. They are going to remember in history books one name, and that’s Obama. They’re not going to be talking about Boehner or anybody else . . . ”

Trump scorned any talk of compromise and advocated a 100 percent Republican-dictated solution.

“Frankly, the Republicans would be crazy unless they get 100 percent of the deal that they want right now to make any deal,” he said. “If this happens, for instance if this stuff is going on prior to an election, (Obama) can’t get reelected. He possibly can’t get elected anyway.

“The fact is, unless the Republicans get 100 percent of what they want, and that may include getting rid of Obamacare, which is a total disaster, then they should not make a deal other than a minor extension that would take you before you the election which would ensure Obama doesn’t get elected, which would be a great thing.”

A new Ipso-Reuters poll, released Tuesday, showed a 56 percent majority of Americans want a negotiated end to the debt crisis that would include both budget cuts and revenue measures such as closing tax loopholes for the very wealthy.

Fuck Donald Trump. He's right though. If they allow default to occur Obama will never recover from this. This is potentially like Iran Contra but for global economics. Fucking insane.

 

[speculawyer]

Ah, shit. Still. Takeover of the House seems highly unlikely. If the country defaults it gets pinned on Obama.

Have you looked at a poll in the last 3 weeks? Ever read about the 90's shutdown with Clinton & Gingrich?

 

[Diablos]

Have you looked at a poll in the last 3 weeks? Ever read about the 90's shutdown with Clinton & Gingrich?

The implications are different this time; i.e. we fall back down into a deep recession and the global economy goes down with it.

 

[Clevinger]

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2011/07/26/gop-reject-debt-deal-to-sabotage-obama-trump/


Fuck Donald Trump. He's right though. If they allow default to occur Obama will never recover from this.

Neither will the GOP...

 

[GhaleonEB]

Not really. Last night I heard the president mention he would not support a short term extension of only 6 months. Boehner's plan contains this, and so he is doing what he promised. Who really supports a short term extension. Only reason to have one or not is political. The issue should be settled and not be fought again till after the elections, when people have a chance to make their voice heard. That seems fair to me.

I keep saying, Boehner only switched from demanding a big deal to a short extention when Obama held a press conference and said an extention until 2013 was one of his 'bottom lines'. It's all a political game to Boehner.