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[Plinko]

The GOP has an out: CHARITY!

I can guarantee you that if we took away the tax breaks for donating to charity that would come crashing to a halt.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Spending has nearly doubled over the last 10 years.

and revenues are flat, despite GDP incresaing 70%. Virtually the entire increase in spending as a % of GDP is due to the quadrupling of health care costs since 2000 and the wars in iraq and afghanistan.

 

[Plinko]

Rep. Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.) has compared Pell Grants to “welfare”.

"So you can go to college on Pell Grants — maybe I should not be telling anybody this because it’s turning out to be the welfare of the 21st century," Rehberg told Blog Talk Radio in April. "You can go to school, collect your Pell Grants, get food stamps, low-income energy assistance, Section 8 housing, and all of a sudden we find ourselves subsidizing people that don’t have to graduate from college.”

Trying so hard not to rage right now.

Maybe if these douchebags would actually do something in Congress to rein in the MASSIVE increases to tuition over the past 20 years (thanks to administrative overspending) then people would actually be able to afford going to college. Douche.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Where does this logic come from?

You mean facts? They come from the Office of Management and Budget.
Where does the logic come from that says we need to spend a certain % of gdp?

 

[Evlar]

You mean facts? They come from the Office of Management and Budget.
Where does the logic come from that says we need to spend a certain % of gdp?

I never heard it until this Hauser's Law nonsense in the WSJ and the balanced budget amendment bullshit.

 

[GaimeGuy]

You mean facts? They come from the Office of Management and Budget.
Where does the logic come from that says we need to spend a certain % of gdp?

Nothing says you HAVE to, but if you look at the rest of the civilized world, our spending as a % of GDP is low, and our tax revenues as a % of GDP are abyssmally low. Taking that into perspective, is spending the major cause of our problems? Or is it reluctance to empower ourselves through our government to do things that benefit our society as a whole, and to give our government the power to adequately fund such services?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Trying so hard not to rage right now.

Maybe if these douchebags would actually do something in Congress to rein in the MASSIVE increases to tuition over the past 20 years (thanks to administrative overspending) then people would actually be able to afford going to college. Douche.

I bought a gaming PC with my Pell Grant (had some leftover at the end of the year), so... I guess it's like welfare?

but... I couldn't afford college without it. I only used the extra money they gave me at the end of the year

You can't get a Pell Grant unless you are a half time student in college, so I'm not sure where he's coming from with the "giving it to people who won't graduate from college" bit.

 

[DEO3]

Write your representative and senators. Make your voice heard. That's all you can do a t this point :/

Yeah, about that:

“I have had phone calls from constituents all across the Third District suggesting we raise taxes,” said Representative Steve Womack, Republican of Arkansas. “But this economy is too fragile.”

This dude represents a district that is blood red, a district that went to the Republican 75-25. If people from HIS district are screaming at him to raise taxes, then that's the mood around the country.

And yet...

 

[DasRaven]

Opening Bell set to "The Final Countdown."
All Dow stocks down.
Gold at an all time high.
VIX at 4-month high
It will be an interesting day.

 

[gcubed]

expounds on what rich lowry was talking about earlier. anyway, it's pretty nauseating

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/1...-over-pell-grant-funding-in-boehner-debt-bill

tax breaks for charitable giving is welfare
tax breaks for oil companies is welfare
tax breaks for x is welfare

The guy is an idiot

 

[kkaabboomm]

TPM: "BREAKING NEWS -- 9:38 AM: REID TO BRING HIS DEBT PLAN FORWARD TODAY"

I guess he has no faith the Boehner plan will pass the House?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

TPM: "BREAKING NEWS -- 9:38 AM: REID TO BRING HIS DEBT PLAN FORWARD TODAY"

I guess he has no faith the Boehner plan will pass the House?

this will put the pressure and burden on Boehner.

I think if Boehner got behind this bill, he could get all the Democrats, and enough Republicans to pass it, and be done with this whole thing. Put it behind us.

 

[kkaabboomm]

this will put the pressure and burden on Boehner.

I think if Boehner got behind this bill, he could get all the Democrats, and enough Republicans to pass it, and be done with this whole thing. Put it behind us.

he'd get some/most House Dems, but he'd lose a good 100 R's in the process, and make it so they hate him even more and thus ensure he'd probably be a one term speaker.

Rock and a hard place for the man?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

this will put the pressure and burden on Boehner.

I think if Boehner got behind this bill, he could get all the Democrats, and enough Republicans to pass it, and be done with this whole thing. Put it behind us.

Reids bill isnt passing the Senate.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Reids bill isnt passing the Senate.

really?

McConnell had a lot of input on it, plus McCain wants the ceiling raised, and certainly he could influence other GOP members to take the sane route. Nobody is going to filibuster it, so as long as the Democrats stick to their guns, it should be okay.

I think it'll just squeak by.

 

[Clevinger]

There's already one dem who's going to vote no.

 

[Evlar]

This is a procedural hurdle, right? There must be a vote on these two bills- neither of which will ever become law- before other approaches can move through the regular committees and come before the floor. They'll get a vote, get them killed one place or another, then begin work on something realistic.

I'm just guessing here; I don't understand the finest details of the byzantine process of scuppering bills.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This is a procedural hurdle, right? There must be a vote on these two bills- neither of which will ever become law- before other approaches can move through the regular committees and come before the floor. They'll get a vote, get them killed one place or another, then begin work on something realistic.

I'm just guessing here; I don't understand the finest details of the byzantine process of scuppering bills.

do they have the time for all that?

 

[Dude Abides]

I bought a gaming PC with my Pell Grant (had some leftover at the end of the year), so... I guess it's like welfare?

but... I couldn't afford college without it. I only used the extra money they gave me at the end of the year

You can't get a Pell Grant unless you are a half time student in college, so I'm not sure where he's coming from with the "giving it to people who won't graduate from college" bit.

Welfare queen confirmed. I bet you bought a gold-plated keyboard and mouse as well.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

This is a procedural hurdle, right? There must be a vote on these two bills- neither of which will ever become law- before other approaches can move through the regular committees and come before the floor. They'll get a vote, get them killed one place or another, then begin work on something realistic.

I'm just guessing here; I don't understand the finest details of the byzantine process of scuppering bills.

Sounds about right to me, but there better be some all-nighters.

 

[DEO3]

Why don't they just pass a clean bill in the Senate?

It's pretty clear the Tea Party caucus isn't going to vote for anything except Armageddon, so fuck 'em. They make up what? A quarter of the house? Boehner should just team up with Pelosi and form a coalition between her Democrats and whatever sane Republicans he has left. At this rate he's going to be losing his speakership anyway, so why's it matter? Surely, at this point, everyone simply wants to put this mess behind them. Save all these revenue/cuts for the next budget debate, where they belong.

 

[Clevinger]

Why don't they just pass a clean bill in the Senate?

Because then Republicans wouldn't be able to exploit the situation for all it's worth.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Because then Republicans wouldn't be able to exploit the situation for all it's worth.

this time they may have gotten in over their heads

 

[gcubed]

i expected the dems to fold last week, i'm impressed

 

[Chichikov]

i expected the dems to fold last week, i'm impressed

They've already folded.
Over 2 trillions in cuts without a single penny in new revenue?
Man, you're easily impressed.

 

[Clevinger]

Rahm said they got everything they wanted at the time of the signing. Quit spreading bullshit.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/01/economic_policy

Yeah. They said they got everything they wanted with the stimulus, just like how they said the health care bill was an astounding success, just like how they said this last budget was a great success, and just like I'm sure whatever horrible bullshit the final debt ceiling bill will be is destined to be proclaimed "a great success."

Saying, "We barely got shit. These bills are terrible," makes them look bad.

 

[Byakuya769]

They've already folded.
Over 2 trillions in cuts without a single penny in new revenue?
Man, you're easily impressed.

I know I'm at risk of beating this drum too hard, but this is the result of the elevation of compromise over good policy. What's bad slowly is transformed to good by perception.

Yeah. They said they got everything they wanted with the stimulus, just like how they said the health care bill was an astounding success, just like how they said this last budget was a great success, and just like I'm sure whatever horrible bullshit the final debt ceiling bill will be is destined to be proclaimed "a great success."

Saying, "We barely got shit. These bills are terrible," makes them look bad.

The stimulus was dictated by what Rahm thought they could get, and not what economist thought the economy actually needed. Politics over policy.

 

[thekad]

The White House is considering backing a combination of the Boehner and McConnell plans, reports Greg Sargent: "One idea being floated in multiple private discussions would in effect be a fusion of the Boehner plan and the original McConnell plan to transer control of the debt ceiling to the President. The idea would be to preserve the joint commission that Boehner’s plan sets up, and also preserve the spending cut targets in Boehner’s plan. But rather than have those tied to two debt ceiling hikes, the President would have the power to hike the debt ceiling unilaterally in keeping with McConnell’s plan, unless a two-thirds veto-proof Congressional supermajority disapproved of it (which wouldn’t happen)...If the committee didn’t reach the goals, automatic cuts of some kind would be triggered automatically."

lol

 

[gcubed]

They've already folded.
Over 2 trillions in cuts without a single penny in new revenue?
Man, you're easily impressed.

fold as in vote in whatever is handed to them. Are you talking about the Reid's 2 trillion? Thats fake anyway.

lol

aaaannnnddd.... i'm no longer impressed.

 

[Zabka]

i expected the dems to fold last week, i'm impressed

They would have folded if the Republicans could get their act together.

 

[Chichikov]

Obama to speak shortly on the debt ceiling negotiation.
(10:20 eastern time).

 

[Evlar]

Obama to speak shortly on the debt ceiling negotiation.
(10:20 eastern time).

He's on.

EDIT: Just tacitly supported McConnell's plan.

EDIT EDIT: To be clear, he said he would sign either Reid's plan or McConnell's plan.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Looks like they added a balanced budget amendment that would HAVE to be passed to increase the debt limit again later this year to get more Yes votes. So, apparently Bill should now pass the House.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Looks like they added a balanced budget amendment that would HAVE to be passed to increase the debt limit again later this year to get more Yes votes. So, apparently Bill should now pass the House.

.... they expect a 2/3rds majority approval in bothe the house and the senate and ratification by 38 states? wtf

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Looks like they added a balanced budget amendment that would HAVE to be passed to increase the debt limit again later this year to get more Yes votes. So, apparently Bill should now pass the House.

ahahaha

that is never, ever going to go anywhere with that dangling beside it

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

expounds on what rich lowry was talking about earlier. anyway, it's pretty nauseating

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/1...-over-pell-grant-funding-in-boehner-debt-bill

Really??? Helping citizens go to college is welfare? Even if they get higher paying jobs when they graduate which leads to more tax revenue? Everyone should see this short 2 minute video on how much it costs the United States a year for high school drop outs: $319 billion a year. The saying goes that you need to spend money to make money. Holding up the debt ceiling vote over Pell grants confirms why I cannot support Republicans. Someone save us from this madness.

Reids bill isnt passing the Senate.

I read a while back that McConnell does not want to filibuster the debt ceiling bill. He just doesn't want to provide any votes for it. He says if the Democrats can get 51 votes for it, then let them do it. Just no Republican support.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I read a while back that McConnell does not want to filibuster the debt ceiling bill. He just doesn't want to provide any votes for it. He says if the Democrats can get 51 votes for it, then let them do it. Just no Republican support.

If true, that's the most sensible thing I've heard from the senate GOP caucus in like 5 years.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

.... they expect a 2/3rds majority approval in bothe the house and the senate and ratification by 38 states? wtf

I would not count out the states. Local initiatives have been known to pass. We did outlaw alcohol for over 10 years. Also, California did pass marriage = one man + one women amendment. Anything can happen with the right framing.

 

[Blergmeister]

I read a while back that McConnell does not want to filibuster the debt ceiling bill. He just doesn't want to provide any votes for it. He says if the Democrats can get 51 votes for it, then let them do it. Just no Republican support.

Which is probably to give the House the opportunity to shoot it down.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

If true, that's the most sensible thing I've heard from the senate GOP caucus in like 5 years.

How far have they fallen that such a craven, scumbag move is now "sensible"?

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Which is probably to give the House the opportunity to shoot it down.

Yeah, he knows it has to pass the House. So he does not have to be as obstructionist as he was before 2010. Though things could have change since then. There might be some crazies in the Senate, but they are not ready to jump off the bridge like the House.

 

[teruterubozu]

How far have they fallen that such a craven, scumbag move is now "sensible"?

Yeah really. These guys don't want to get their hands dirty on ANYTHING. Worst governing tactic ever.

 

[thekad]

How far have they fallen that such a craven, scumbag move is now "sensible"?

huh? Political, but scumbag?

 

[teruterubozu]

huh? Political, but scumbag?

oh they're completely compatible, political + scumbag.

 

[Averon]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/07/practically_delusional.php?ref=fpblg

Just minutes after President Obama urged the parties to come together and avert this default crisis, things are actually going backwards in the House. And in pretty incredible fashion.

To secure enough votes from his own members for his plan, Speaker Boehner is amending it to basically turn it into Cut, Cap, and Balance Lite.

Here's the key new provision that is apparently going to win enough GOP votes to pass the bill:

The debt ceiling would be raised immediately but not by enough to get the government through next year. To get the second debt ceiling increase, House Republicans want a balanced budget constitutional amendment to pass both chambers first and be referred to the states.

Never going to happen, but that's where we are. It makes you wonder if there's any compromise plan that can get through this House. That's why, even though my gut says there's no way the U.S. is stupid enough to default, I still can't see a clear, viable way out of this.

Holy hell.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Reagan never compromised his ideals when it came to working with Democrats in Congress, correct?

 

[FLEABttn]

Holy hell.

Good luck to them.

 

[jamesinclair]

Nothin says "small government" like a constitutional amendment!

Hey guys, the constitution is sacred! ....so lets change it!

 

[balladofwindfishes]

they're going all in

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

How far have they fallen that such a craven, scumbag move is now "sensible"?

How is letting a bill that you don't support pass without fighting it a scumbag move?