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[Measley]

What would your prescription be?

Cut taxes, end entitlements, demolish the public sector, and then wait as the money from the wealthy trickles down.

 

[Averon]

Sure. But it was not merely ADP's employment report that caused increased expectations. A host of other metrics indicated increased hiring and economic activity.

I'm fine with the other numbers. Sometimes I feel like ADP is just throwing darts at a boards. At times they get reasonably close and other times they are really, really off the mark. Their June numbers, of course, is the latter.

 

[Incognito]

It's very odd how every other measure of employment - UI claims, private payroll growth (which showed 150k increase), ISM indexes - all improved month over month, yet the final BLS numbers are down steeply. That's one of the stories of this recovery - the official payroll numbers are entirely de-coupled from every other reading. It's incredibly weird.

And Obama is continuing to dig his own grave with huge cuts in spending.

this came across my twitter feed from david leonhardt of the nytimes -- not sure what to think about it.

Ian Shep. of HFE asks whether late Easter messed up seasonals. If last year's seas adjust had been used, jobs would've = +182k. Thoughts?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

this came across my twitter feed from david leonhardt of the nytimes -- not sure what to think about it.

That would be fucking great

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Cut taxes, end entitlements, demolish the public sector, and then wait as the money from the wealthy trickles down.

Least we're not SAVING JOBS MMMDERP. REMEMBER THAT?

 

[Evlar]

this came across my twitter feed from david leonhardt of the nytimes -- not sure what to think about it.

My answer would be: U6 is up; the rest is something of a shell game.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm about to go ape shit on a tea partier that I work with. He always complains about too much gov't spending and how much he hates unions (even though he always says how much he loves getting overtime money).

This son of a bitch is now complaining and is pissed off that the space shuttle is ending. He's purely blaming Obama for killing it and kill 10s of thousands of jobs.

Does he not understand the hypocrisy? AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I'm about to go ape shit on a tea partier that I work with. He always complains about too much gov't spending and how much he hates unions (even though he always says how much he loves getting overtime money).

This son of a bitch is now complaining and is pissed off that the space shuttle is ending. He's purely blaming Obama for killing it and kill 10s of thousands of jobs.

Does it not understand the hypocrisy? AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

That's standard tea partier.

KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY MEDICARE

 

[eznark]

I'm about to go ape shit on a tea partier that I work with. He always complains about too much gov't spending and how much he hates unions (even though he always says how much he loves getting overtime money).

This son of a bitch is now complaining and is pissed off that the space shuttle is ending. He's purely blaming Obama for killing it and kill 10s of thousands of jobs.

Does he not understand the hypocrisy? AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

I enjoyed the shuttle launch. I'm glad it was the last one but I enjoyed it. So damn cool. Your co-worker sounds like a fucking idiot.

 

[speculawyer]

Demanding new stimulus.

Brilliant.

Should we go back to the all the Bush strategies that caused the financial meltdown? That will be a funny thing if Obama loses . . . . hey, let's go from bad to worse! woo-hoo!

As I've been harping for years now, there is not much anyone can do to make things better. However, some policies will be worse than others. Between high energy prices and very cheap foreign labor, the USA just cannot really grow much. Period.

 

[eznark]

What would your prescription be?

You see slack in some sectors as a “general glut”
But some sectors are healthy, only some in a rut
So spending’s not free – that’s the heart of the matter
too much is wasted as cronies get fatter.

The economy’s not a car, there’s no engine to stall
no expert can fix it, there’s no “it” at all.
The economy’s us, we don’t need a mechanic
Put away the wrenches, the economy’s organic

 

[RustyNails]

As I've been harping for years now, there is not much anyone can do to make things better.

We need few more mega stimulus packages in order to move the economy forward. I think this is the first time in history where a recession is not being countered with tax increases and more spending programs. On the contrary, we are focused on debt ceiling which is incredibly distracting from the real issue: jobs. Once again, Republicans are successful in shifting the debate despite being a minority in two branches. A debt ceiling vote is as routine as apple pie, but for some reason (I can think of a few actually), we started playing chicken with debt ceiling which in turn is shaking the confidence of investors and global economy even more (on top of a tepid recovery). I'm thoroughly convinced about the Republican game now, and it is absolutely clear. Destroy the economy, oust the Muslim black panther giving orders, and put a good (read white) christian conservative in. I'm truly convinced. Sorry eznark, TA and others who try to present the other side in a respectable manner. But there's no way this batch of Republicans have any good faith in America right now. I don't hate the Republican party itself, just the politicians in the office right now. Both the parties should be holding meetings and conferences on how to boost the economy and create more jobs, but one wants to be the schoolyard bully and dictate it's terms.

I'll be very interested in the Republican platform after August 2nd.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Nearly all the indicators were positive, hm.

And instead of fighting over jobs, Obama is about to broker a deal that slashes spending like never before. I think it's becoming more and more clear he's not getting re-elected. He will not do anything that might fail, or has little chance of working. Hence his utter silence on jobs, unless it's the weekly presidential youtube speech no one listens to. This guy dug his own grave and jumped in it just to increase his poll numbers

 

[reilo]

I think it's becoming more and more clear he's not getting re-elected.

So, Obama wins 2012 in a landslide then.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Nearly all the indicators were positive, hm.

And instead of fighting over jobs, Obama is about to broker a deal that slashes spending like never before. I think it's becoming more and more clear he's not getting re-elected. He will not do anything that might fail, or has little chance of working. Hence his utter silence on jobs, unless it's the weekly presidential youtube speech no one listens to. This guy dug his own grave and jumped in it just to increase his poll numbers

Why would he fight over jobs?
His top advisor says jobs aren't a key factor in 2012

Who cares about jobs

President Obama’s senior political adviser David Plouffe said Wednesday that people won’t vote in 2012 based on the unemployment rate.

 

[RustyNails]

Hence his utter silence on jobs, unless it's the weekly presidential youtube speech no one listens to. This guy dug his own grave and jumped in it just to increase his poll numbers

Nope, he compromised for a vote on the debt deal and prevented America's debt rating from becoming junk like Portugal's.

 

[Chichikov]

Nearly all the indicators were positive, hm.

And instead of fighting over jobs, Obama is about to broker a deal that slashes spending like never before. I think it's becoming more and more clear he's not getting re-elected. He will not do anything that might fail, or has little chance of working. Hence his utter silence on jobs, unless it's the weekly presidential youtube speech no one listens to. This guy dug his own grave and jumped in it just to increase his poll numbers

This is way to early to talk about 2012
Remember how after Bin Laden a second term was an open and shut case?
Yeah.
The public has a really short memory, at the polls, people will think of the economy of 2012, not 2011.

He'll need to performance better though.

QE3!

http://www.slate.com/id/2298563/

Be right back, I need to buy more silver

Why does Ben Bernanke still has a job?

 

[Cyan]

Nope, he compromised for a vote on the debt deal and prevented America's debt rating from becoming junk like Portugal's.

That... hasn't actually happened yet.

 

[PhoenixDark]

This is way to early to talk about 2012
Remember how after Bin Laden a second term was an open and shut case?
Yeah.
The public has a really short memory, at the polls, people will think of the economy of 2012, not 2011.

He need to have a better job performance though.

Who thought Bin Laden was a second term lock outside of liberals though? Everyone else recognized the economy would be the lasting story, while the Bin Laden bump would disappear. 9.2 unemployment and anemic economic growth don't disappear overnight. And while it's true the economy will probably gain momentum once the summer is over, what about next summer when the same cycle of high gas and no jobs repeats itself?

Watch his remarks:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...gd3H_video.html?tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost

His first words "obviously the debate in Washington has been on debt limit, but matters most to Americans and what matters most to me as president is getting the economy on a sound footing..." As if he's blaming Washington for focusing on debt while he proposes 4 trillion in cuts. He hasn't focused on jobs in some time, and Americans know it.

 

[eznark]

Why does Ben Bernanke still has a job?

Politics.

Bernanke allows Obama to keep calling this the past administrations recession.

 

[PantherLotus]

This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. I think I need a break from poli-reality for a bit.

 

[eznark]

At least the Royals are still hot.

 

[Chichikov]

Politics.

Bernanke allows Obama to keep calling this the past administrations recession.

Come one now, you really think people know who Bernanke is?
Also, I think you give this White House waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit in regard to their ability to frame anything.

But I do agree that it's politics.
Just good old money politics.
Wall Street wanted Bernanke, so Obama complied.

You don't want to fuck with Wall Street anyway.
You put someone that they don't like and the markets goes down.
And we can't have the stock market go down.
After all, Wall Street is the engine of the economy.

Or something.

At least the Royals are still hot.

That's cold.

Making fun of Roylas fans is like pushing a handicapped kid down a flight of stairs.
Sure, it's easy and entertaining, but deep down, you know it ain't right.

 

[mckmas8808]

Why does Ben Bernanke still has a job?

Because the guy helped save our economy?

Bernanke allows Obama to keep calling this the past administrations recession.

Because it was. We aren't in a recession right now.

 

[Hitokage]

Because the guy helped save our economy?

Although this is arguably because of his position rather than actions.

 

[Big Baybee]

Politics.

Bernanke allows Obama to keep calling this the past administrations recession.

It isn't?

 

[gcubed]

Although this is arguably because of his position rather than actions.

the guy basically lived and breathed economics of the great depression. I give him a little more credit than just being fed reserve chariman

 

[eznark]

Because it was. We aren't in a recession right now.

Walks like a duck and sings like a duck

 

[Chichikov]

Because the guy helped save our economy?

I can't tell if you're joking.
Seriously, I can't.

the guy basically lived and breathed economics of the great depression. I give him a little more credit than just being fed reserve chariman

Really?
Did you read the article that started this discussion?

Or are you arguing in favor of quantitative easing?
Even though its results were exactly what its critics were predicting?

 

[PantherLotus]

At least the Royals are still hot.

 

[Chichikov]

At least he manage to change his avatar from that weird underage sex-doll robot thing he had before he died.
He will be missed.

p.s.
Can I get his tag?

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Walks like a duck and sings like a duck

Hey, the big boys are doing just dandy right? Fuck the rest, it'll drip down eventually. Recession over.

 

[polyh3dron]

It's very odd how every other measure of employment - UI claims, private payroll growth (which showed 150k increase), ISM indexes - all improved month over month, yet the final BLS numbers are down steeply. That's one of the stories of this recovery - the official payroll numbers are entirely de-coupled from every other reading. It's incredibly weird.

And Obama is continuing to dig his own grave with huge cuts in spending.

He took the GOP's bait.

 

[eznark]

Hey, the big boys are doing just dandy right? Fuck the rest, it'll drip down eventually. Recession over.

At least someone got some hopey change, I guess.

 

[gcubed]

I can't tell if you're joking.
Seriously, I can't.


Really?
Did you read the article that started this discussion?

Or are you arguing in favor of quantitative easing?
Even though its results were exactly what its critics were predicting?

QE2, not QE1. QE2 may have been a little overkill, unfortunately a booming stock market doesnt improve consumer confidence, nor trickle down to employees. I'm still waiting on my pre-recession benefits to kick back in since they lowered them "due to the economy" while we have been having the best quarters in years.

 

[Loudninja]

Update on Social Security Cuts

Rep. Barney Frank says Minority Leader Pelosi reassured House Democrats that the COLA change (which amounts to escalating cuts to Social Security over time) floated in the press will not happen.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/07/update_on_social_security_cuts.php?ref=fpblg

 

[mckmas8808]

Hey, the big boys are doing just dandy right? Fuck the rest, it'll drip down eventually. Recession over.

Recessions aren't solely based on the unemployment rate. We know this. Stop making it seem as if it does.

 

[jamesinclair]

Its time to elect a new president that will take the actions necessary to get this economy moving.

-Return to the tax rates of the 80s
-Use the new income to buy up the most profitable companies. Apple. Google. Oil. Apple has a market cap of 330.92B. 200B buys you all you need, and thats just a couple of months of Pentagon money.
-Instead of directing massive profits (after R&D allocation) to the pockets of a few privileged wealthy, direct profit directly into infrastructure and education investment
-Enjoy millions of new jobs and monies.

 

[NihonTiger90]

I was waiting for someone to do this. From the Des Moines Register's original story on Bachmann signing that pledge:

Former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, a Republican, is reviewing the pledge, a spokesman said Thursday night. Several other GOP presidential candidates didn’t respond to requests for comment, including former Michigan Gov. Mitt Romney, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, and retired Georgia businessman Herman Cain.

Of course, they got Mitt and his dad (former Mich. Gov. George Romney) mixed up, though I'm sure Mitt wishes he had the kind of appeal that his dad did.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Doesn't seem like that would fix our economy. More like, let's wait for another bubble and then watch it burst.

And good luck finding someone that would know how to properly invest in our infrastructure without losing those jobs after they've been completed. Although you would still create many new jobs to maintain and watch the newly built projects.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Its time to elect a new president that will take the actions necessary to get this economy moving.

-Return to the tax rates of the 80s
-Use the new income to buy up the most profitable companies. Apple. Google. Oil. Apple has a market cap of 330.92B. 200B buys you all you need, and thats just a couple of months of Pentagon money.
-Instead of directing massive profits (after R&D allocation) to the pockets of a few privileged wealthy, direct profit directly into infrastructure and education investment
-Enjoy millions of new jobs and monies.

I think there's a legitimately interesting question to be discussed about the value of nationalizing things like oil production, but that plan is patently ridiculous.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I think there's a legitimately interesting question to be discussed about the value of nationalizing things like oil production, but that plan is patently ridiculous.

What about the cost of production?

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Its time to elect a new president that will take the actions necessary to get this economy moving.

-Return to the tax rates of the 80s
-Use the new income to buy up the most profitable companies. Apple. Google. Oil. Apple has a market cap of 330.92B. 200B buys you all you need, and thats just a couple of months of Pentagon money.
-Instead of directing massive profits (after R&D allocation) to the pockets of a few privileged wealthy, direct profit directly into infrastructure and education investment
-Enjoy millions of new jobs and monies.

I'm voting for you jamesinclair. Only if you throw Microsoft in there as well.

 

[jamesinclair]

I think there's a legitimately interesting question to be discussed about the value of nationalizing things like oil production, but that plan is patently ridiculous.

Because our current situation is not ridiculous at all.

But yes, oil should be nationalized. Its the only thing keeping the world propped up at this point.

Look at the "winning" US states, like Alaska and Texas. Oil.
Look at the "winning" emerging economies, like Brazil and Russia. Oil.
Look at the "fuck us look how rich we are" countries like Qatar. Oil.

Meanwhile, what do places like Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc have in common? No oil.

I'm voting for you jamesinclair. Only if you throw Microsoft in there as well.

I pick no favorites. Whoever is bringing home the most money.

It's unpatriotic to not share it

 

[Vanillalite]

The Incidental Economist!

I bet you’re getting a subsidy for your health insurance, too!
July 8, 2011 at 3:26 pm
This post is co-authored by Aaron Carroll and Austin Frakt

We’re getting a strange amount of pushback from people who deny that their employer-sponsored health insurance is “subsidized”. Some deny that a tax deduction is a subsidy. Some deny the existence of “tax expenditures” at all.

So let’s try again. Take this chart:

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Because our current situation is not ridiculous at all.

But yes, oil should be nationalized. Its the only thing keeping the world propped up at this point.

Look at the "winning" US states, like Alaska and Texas. Oil.
Look at the "winning" emerging economies, like Brazil and Russia. Oil.
Look at the "fuck us look how rich we are" countries like Qatar. Oil.

Meanwhile, what do places like Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc have in common? No oil.

Dude, that is the sloppiest reasoning of all time.

 

[jamesinclair]

Dude, that is the sloppiest reasoning of all time.

No its not.

Go down the list of states, countries etc.

Make a list of haves and have-nots (economic growth)

Youll note an extremely high correlation with oil production.

Fun fact: You know how California had its economic peak in the 1980s? Guess when California hit its peak oil output.

How is it that northern europe (norway, sweden, GB, russia, germany etc) are all doing so well, and southern europe is in deep shit?

Look at where the oil is.

 

[thekad]

Nearly all the indicators were positive, hm.

And instead of fighting over jobs, Obama is about to broker a deal that slashes spending like never before. I think it's becoming more and more clear he's not getting re-elected. He will not do anything that might fail, or has little chance of working. Hence his utter silence on jobs, unless it's the weekly presidential youtube speech no one listens to. This guy dug his own grave and jumped in it just to increase his poll numbers

That didn't work.

Do we have some good news at the very least?

Nope.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Do we have some good news at the very least? Reading this thread is depressing at times.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

No its not.

Go down the list of states, countries etc.

Make a list of haves and have-nots (economic growth)

Youll note an extremely high correlation (which is not causation) with oil production.

Fun fact: You know how California had its economic peak in the 1980s? Guess when California hit its peak oil output.

How is it that northern europe (norway, sweden, GB, russia, germany etc) are all doing so well, and southern europe is in deep shit?

Look at where the oil is.

The suggestion that the Greek/Irish debt crises were caused by a lack of state oil production... come on, now.