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Positive games VS. negative ones...

Mihyaeru

Member
Well, I just thought I would create a topic for the discussion on positive games versus negative games. Why people want to see the cruel actions and the more harsh part of reality in an escape from it is beyond me.


However there are people that do crave that type of game. Do you think it is just a reflection of there true desires? I'm not speaking of just games with violence, but games where cruelty and immoral things are at the core. Ninja Gaiden for example is a very violent game but the people you kill are actually bad people and your reasoning is for the Justis of your slayed family and clan. And it is fantasy violence ninjas are not out killing people in the streets ATM much less doing it for immoral reasons.


Games like GTA on the other hand have realistic violence carried out on innocent people in the game. That is a bad part of out actual reality why would we want to promote this and why should we enjoy this type of behavior? Things that most people do in these games are things that they would probably not do in reality though.


So that begs the question do you think that if there were an alternative to GTA with the same core game-play and open ended aspects, yet set in a more positive and or fantasy setting, some of the current players of the violent GTA would switch over? I do. I also believe that it doesn't need to be "censored" yet there should be a option to travel another path a just one for example. And mostly I would just like to see more fantasy in games than the more harsh parts of reality.


"When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge."-Albert Einstein.

I would much rather see people creating and enjoying fantasy worlds and because of them, aspiring to draw our reality closer to it. Rather than enjoying simulated part taking in the more disgusting parts of humanity.


"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world"-Albert Einstein.

I for one would love to see games where you know people reached into there imagination pulled a part of it out and expressed it through the art of video-games as apposed to getting your creativity "off the streets".



"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom."-Albert Einstein

Ennobling=To make noble Noble=Having or showing qualities of high moral character, such as courage, generosity, or honor: a noble spirit.

Games like GTA in IMO do nothing in that direction and in fact take a step back so in closing this post, I would just like to say, I would really like to get the feeling after playing a game, that I am standing on a branch... metaphorically speaking. I think games like KOTOR and Jade Empire are a step in the right direction, Yes they have a dark path yet you can take the light path and doing so in that game in a game ,where you could have gone the other direction gives your actions even more nobility in my opinion.


So, any thoughts on this subject?
 
Oh and I would also like to hear your thoughts on the differences between eastern and western games and the reasoning for the differences. Japanese games seemingly tend to be more creative, fantasy set and positive.
 
You know what game I really enjoyed? The Punisher. I just wish they hadn't censored so many of the good parts. If you're going to cram a man kicking and screaming into a wood chipper, you really should be allowed to see it. I mean, I knew what I was doing. That analog stick didn't rapidly tap itself back and forward. It wasn't an accident.

GTA...

...Has enough defenders and detractors as it is.
 
Servizio said:
You know what game I really enjoyed? The Punisher. I just wish they hadn't censored so many of the good parts. If you're going to cram a man kicking and screaming into a wood chipper, you really should be allowed to see it. I mean, I knew what I was doing. That analog stick didn't rapidly tap itself back and forward. It wasn't an accident.

GTA...

...Has enough defenders and detractors as it is.


GTA is a popular game, & a well understood example though. That's why I used it in particular but its not GTA I am spacifically talking about it's whats behind it and other games as well. And I'm not saying it should be stopped more so asking why it is enjoyed, peoples thoughts on that and if people think there should be another option.
 
I wish the game would be over if you accidentally killed someone in the Spider-Man games. And when he webs his fists up, they should deal less damage.
 
The game industry is relatively new, so that topic isn't over yet, far from it. It needs more thought and actually I agree with you on the GTA thing, but you can't forbid people to buy that unless it is considered to be criminal to play such game(I'm sure that is not impossible, but not likely). I do however think it should have been rated AO from the start and future GTA's too, but not because there might be sex in it.
 
The GTA games are some of my favorites of all time, and I would never play something that used the same engine or whatever in a more positive setting. What's the point? Shit would be so boring it's not even funny.
 
theREBELins said:
The GTA games are some of my favorites of all time, and I would never play something that used the same engine or whatever in a more positive setting. What's the point? Shit would be so boring it's not even funny.

Surely they could improve the ass graphics... That would be a start.
 
Mihyaeru said:
Games like GTA on the other hand have realistic violence carried out on innocent people in the game. That is a bad part of out actual reality why would we want to promote this and why should we enjoy this type of behavior? Things that most people do in these games are things that they would probably not do in reality though.

Why shouldn't we enjoy them? The point of videogames and alot of entertainment in general is to escape from reality. The part people often forget abotu GTA is that you aren't forced to kill innocent people. The missions you're sent on are often to kill murderers and other criminals. But its part of the world, they want to allow you to do anything you want.
 
Holy shit.

Mihyaeru said:
Why people want to see the cruel actions and the more harsh part of reality in an escape from it is beyond me.
Because no two people fully share similar interests.
However there are people that do crave that type of game. Do you think it is just a reflection of there true desires?
Yes, I do think that people's desires reflect their desires.
GTA ... is a bad part of out actual reality why would we want to promote this and why should we enjoy this type of behavior?
Because it is marketable.
And, going back to my first point, some people may happen to be interested in that kind of behavior for purposes of entertainment.
if there were an alternative to GTA with the same core game-play and open ended aspects, yet set in a more positive and or fantasy setting, some of the current players of the violent GTA would switch over? I do.
We're not talking about soda brands, here.
Those 10 million GTA3/whatever copies aren't unsold when new games come out. If someone wants to make a "fantasy" game like it and strikes the proper balance of content, gameplay, and marketing as GTA has, all the power to them. Despite the supposed flood of all these "games like GTA" you hear some people speak of, the individual names of them are hard to remember when they fall off of the charts, aren't they.
I for one would love to see games where you know people reached into there imagination pulled a part of it out and expressed it through the art of video-games as apposed to getting your creativity "off the streets".
Holy shit.
Ennobling=To make noble Noble=Having or showing qualities of high moral character, such as courage, generosity, or honor: a noble spirit.
How prudent of you to furnish a definition forthwith.
Games like GTA in IMO do nothing in that direction and in fact take a step back... I think games like KOTOR and Jade Empire are a step in the right direction
Just because GTA doesn't make the rewards for "good behavior" more explicit doesn't mean they're not present. If you do the follow the missions correctly, you have the justification for the protagonist's actions that you've asked for, and if you don't fuck the mission up, you have less resistance to the goal's completion (i.e., no cops). In fact, you should commend GTA's implicit rewards of good behavior over Bioware's method of blatantly pointing the choices out to you.
Oh and I would also like to hear your thoughts on the differences between eastern and western games and the reasoning for the differences. Japanese games seemingly tend to be more creative, fantasy set and positive.
Holy shit.
 
people generally want their entertainment to be the opposite of what their life is usually like. Like I think I read somewhere that when we are at war 'feel good movies' and happy things tend to make a lot more money. But when everything is going well, sad/depressing entertainment does a lot better.
 
As much as I'm not a fan of the GTA games and the activities found in the game, my attitude is that if it allows people with certain tendencies an outlet to rid of negative energy and aggression, than that's a very good thing.
 
People have such a simplistic view of gta, the effects of media on humans and the relationship to supposed behavior that follows or is "released" by it that I'm starting to think that everyone involved is just too stupid to handle ethical questions about the whole thing. I'm glad it's largely confined to games and we don't have to go through this again with other forms of media. <looks at recent rumblings from the fcc>. Nevermind.
 
http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue-sky-in-games-campaign-launched.html

blueskybanner5.gif
 
I think it's hilarious how he plays it straight in his first post and then lets slip his true motive in the second post :lol
 
FortNinety said:
As much as I'm not a fan of the GTA games and the activities found in the game, my attitude is that if it allows people with certain tendencies an outlet to rid of negative energy and aggression, than that's a very good thing.
exactly. As far as i remember, in GTA 3 (and possibly VC) you were never told to kill innocent people or cops. Players CHOSE to do so, much like players in other games CHOOSE to shoot hostages and kill the dumb bitch they have to escort
 
The key for me with GTA is this. The Getaway series, arguably one of the blackest most violent games in existence has nowhere near the sales of GTA. Why? The Grand Theft Auto series has always had a comedic attitude towards the things you do in the game. When you kill people, they yell "My toolbox!" or "Yup i've been drinking again." In the Getaway and Macabre games like it, it has a serious, extremely serious tone to the violent acts that occur, even if they would be less violent in real life than GTA. Grand Theft Auto's popularity isn't due to it's violence, it's because of it's comic slapstick approach to that violence, from ramming a hospital car till the gurney falls out and then ramming that too to finally kill a guy, to RC toy wars, it's all about immersion and attempts at comedy and parody of real violence. Thats why Manhunt didn't get GTA sales and never will.
 
Please do NOT equate gaming with anything resembling religion or philosophy, even movies aren't there yet. Besides, for all of man's noble promises, our practice tends to be different...
 
dog$ said:
Holy shit.

Because no two people fully share similar interests.
Yes, I do think that people's desires reflect their desires.
Because it is marketable.
And, going back to my first point, some people may happen to be interested in that kind of behavior for purposes of entertainment.
We're not talking about soda brands, here.
Those 10 million GTA3/whatever copies aren't unsold when new games come out. If someone wants to make a "fantasy" game like it and strikes the proper balance of content, game-play, and marketing as GTA has, all the power to them. Despite the supposed flood of all these "games like GTA" you hear some people speak of, the individual names of them are hard to remember when they fall off of the charts, aren't they.
Holy shit.
How prudent of you to furnish a definition forthwith.
Just because GTA doesn't make the rewards for "good behavior" more explicit doesn't mean they're not present. If you do the follow the missions correctly, you have the justification for the protagonist's actions that you've asked for, and if you don't fuck the mission up, you have less resistance to the goal's completion (i.e., no cops). In fact, you should commend GTA's implicit rewards of good behavior over Bioware's method of blatantly pointing the choices out to you.
Holy shit.

On the matter of it not selling, I think it would. I was talking about if Rock-star were to make a more positive game. If done right I think it could be better. using the same style of game-play mechanics in another setting with other ways of doing things, I would give an Example but I don't really play GTA. I couldn't get into it.

capitalCORN said:
Please do NOT equate gaming with anything resembling religion or philosophy, even movies aren't there yet. Besides, for all of man's noble promises, our practice tends to be different...

Actually I was categorizing it as art. It's Einstein that put art on the same subject with those so I guess its him you are in disagreement with... you'd have to tell him, lol. Or do you not consider games as art?




slayn said:
people generally want their entertainment to be the opposite of what their life is usually like. Like I think I read somewhere that when we are at war 'feel good movies' and happy things tend to make a lot more money. But when everything is going well, sad/depressing entertainment does a lot better.

Hmm, that makes sense.
 
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