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Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney |OT| This reminds me of a lawsuit!
- Thread starter Sadist
- Start date
Because layton 6 just came out in NA.
and you have got SMT4 so..!
Btw, I am gonna buy the game later today!
Earthpainting
Member
I finished the first witch trial and lawd I enjoyed it. The only thing that didn't really sit right with me was
that after a while, you were not only out to clear Espella, but also pin it on someone else (as you do as a video game defence attorney). Somehow I wasn't as keen to prove the other person did it when the punishment was going to be DEATH BY FIRE. That shit's a little more hardcore than I'm used in these games. My friend who was also playing it at the same time was also teasing that Snowy the lil' lamb was going to be witch, which also made me uneasy. Thank god Snowy was only a milk thief and not a murderer.
Spieler Eins
Member
It's funny how this is rated 6+ in EU, while DD was rated Mature (in the US at least, never checked it here)
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I've decided it's not Barnham I hate. It's his fans.
Also MFW he takes out an actual sword during trials
Nearing the confrontation in the second witch trial now. I love howPhoenix has to cross-examine the parrot. Nice little AA1 callback.
Yep, his fans are horrible.
Nocturnowl
Member
Finished the game. I liked it a lot.
I also loved the chemistry between Layton and Wright. Great idea for a crossover.
Oh, and I just have to comment on the post-credits scene:
I was so sure Darklaw was Bezella, but I'm glad it didn't end up becoming too predictable. I found the whole "research facility" thing a little bit weird, but ultimately I liked how it all ended.
I also loved the chemistry between Layton and Wright. Great idea for a crossover.
Oh, and I just have to comment on the post-credits scene:
EDGEWOOOOOOOOOOOOOORTH!!
Okay, I just finished chapter four after reading impressions in this thread.
I think I need a moment to digest what the fuck just happened.
Also, I really liked the scene at the start of Chapter 5 when
As it stands, I think I'm preferring this game's story to Dual Destinies. But that might be a bit premature of me to say, and Blackquill is still a far superior character to Barnham.
I think I need a moment to digest what the fuck just happened.
Also, I really liked the scene at the start of Chapter 5 when
Phoenix confronts Barnham about Maya's death. I think it's great that this story isn't just Layton and Wright tackling a mystery and the story actually has an emotional impact on the main characters.
As it stands, I think I'm preferring this game's story to Dual Destinies. But that might be a bit premature of me to say, and Blackquill is still a far superior character to Barnham.
His Theme is pretty good, though.
Higgins113
Banned
You guys...Chapter 4
Agredd, but that's not a huge insult, considering the standard is pretty high.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
Barnham is a mere mid-boss. The true Demon Lord is of another ilk.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
At least he's not annoyingly bad like Klavier Gavin, I prefer Barnham by a country mile.
Achting her Pirate! I have to disagree there.
Completed the game. Pretty good, ending was precictable if you played other Layton games, but all in all a fun cross-over. Dat one cameo at the end!
Chrono Helix
Member
I laughed so hard at that.
"Did he really sell off... Holy shit he did WTF!"
you see him taking a swig from a bottle with a skull and crossbones on it, and immediately dismiss it as a visual gag, but later on... WTF!
I finished this a couple of days ago and I loved it. The story definitely feels more like a Layton story then an Ace Attorney one, which is pretty weird since it was the Ace Attorney writer who wrote it. I'm a huge fan of both series so I liked both the gameplay types, but the Ace Attorney sections were more fun. The puzzles were a bit on the easy side for the most part but the courtroom sections had a nice challenge to them so I guess it evens out a little. Overall I loved this game and would say if you are a fan of either series then it's worth playing.
I still prefer him to Franziska Von Karma, and while I prefer Klavier as a character, at least Barnham isn't solving the cases and grilling the witnesses for you as early as case 2.
To me, Barnham's like Edgeworth, if he didn't spend the first game as a terrible person or have a personal relationship with Phoenix. I wouldn't expect him to reach the heights of him, Godot or Blackquill anyway.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Yeah, I suppose it's more a personal thing. Don't like his style or music.
Oh sure, everyone has their favourites or a certain dislike for characters, but overall Barnham did a good job. I was just waiting for some sort of hook, a more eccentric character flaw which all the other Ace Attorney prosecuters kind of have. He didn't have one, which is a shame.
The game does have some great witnesses though.
Spoilers!
The game does have some great witnesses though.
Spoilers!
Emeer for example is hilarious. At times he felt like Larry Butz. Spouting non-sensical stuff, not telling everything... I laughed out loud when admitted he sold of Gold Layton's arm.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Yep, the witnesses are amazing, too bad you can't interact with them more like in PW games (as they are walking around usually during cases and you can talk with them). In this game if you find someone (apart of not knowing if he is a witness) there only like 1 or 2 dialogue lines.
But of course, surprise witnesses during the trials are awesome also.
I just watched the announcement trailer from 2010 again. The plot seems to be completely different from what it actually ended up being. There seems to be a bigger focus on the "vs." part of the title in the trailer. The character design of the Storyteller isn't even the same either. Very interesting.
Earthpainting
Member
Good god, Chapter 4 was quite something. I figured out who did it pretty fast, and even though I was right, they still kept throwing twists and turns my way to keep me engrossed. I normally play these games in short bursts, but I couldn't put this down. Especially the ending is something I did not see coming at all.
Luke accusing Maya just broke my heart. That was not logical and definitely not gentleman-like, my boy. The professor is gone for a few hours and he's already unlearning everything. This is why he'll never be the Number One apprentice he claims to be! I'm also not sure how he figured out there was a hidden passage in the courtroom at the end either.
Speaking of which, holy crap they offed both Maya and Layton in a single chapter! I don't doubt they'll bring them both back eventually, but I still didn't expect them to go there to begin with. The entire chapter, I was waiting for the twist that Layton was never actually turned into gold and was instead being held captive in a cell or something. Especially when they were talking about fake magical gems, I was so certain this would happen.
Emeer also cracks me up. Hot damn that guy is a piece of work. His constant theft, styling on everyone with his bling and having a personal bard, and his eagerness to drink from cups with skulls on them was never not hilarious. I enjoyed that the prosecution was just utterly done with his bullshit and didn't even want to bother anymore with trying to cover for him. As the trial progressed, Barnham would just instantly go to UGH WHAT DID YOU DO NOW?
Speaking of which, holy crap they offed both Maya and Layton in a single chapter! I don't doubt they'll bring them both back eventually, but I still didn't expect them to go there to begin with. The entire chapter, I was waiting for the twist that Layton was never actually turned into gold and was instead being held captive in a cell or something. Especially when they were talking about fake magical gems, I was so certain this would happen.
Emeer also cracks me up. Hot damn that guy is a piece of work. His constant theft, styling on everyone with his bling and having a personal bard, and his eagerness to drink from cups with skulls on them was never not hilarious. I enjoyed that the prosecution was just utterly done with his bullshit and didn't even want to bother anymore with trying to cover for him. As the trial progressed, Barnham would just instantly go to UGH WHAT DID YOU DO NOW?
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Finished yesterday night the game. The last trial is too long and apart of how all works out explanation, is not that interesting. The first part of the trial with the
. But still the game is pretty great, and when it's good it's amazingly good. Would put it after Trials and Tribulations and Dual Destinies on my list.
It's also a pity that a staple of the phoenix wright trials
.
Loved the final
though, that was great.
BTW The credits theme is GLORIOUS! Simply fantastic,
There also a huge error in one of the anime cutscenes in
. Im pretty sure the story was changed in mid process but it was to late to change that cutscenes so they left it like that.
soldiers, is much more fun
It's also a pity that a staple of the phoenix wright trials
the villians breakdowns, only happens two times (London trial and first witch trial), becuase there are really no villians in the game (still poor Darklaw killed 2000 people and her mother, something I didn't really like, and I also didn't like how Layton handed the situation, becuase Phoenix proved in Dual Destinies he can handle that situation much better to find the truth).
Loved the final
Phoenix wright scene with talking Edgeworth cameo
BTW The credits theme is GLORIOUS! Simply fantastic,
best of both worlds in orchestra!
There also a huge error in one of the anime cutscenes in
I think its chapter 8, when Layton enters as a prosecutor, Maya doesn't have her "soldier" costume so the would fuck up the surprise of the shadows fort he people at the trial
FeenieVonKarma
Member
What the shit! This completely took me by surprise since I was waist deep in Persona 4 Golden for the past month or so.
Must try & buy this when I get home.
Must try & buy this when I get home.
I was enchanted by almost every moment of this 30-hour long game! I just beat it today, and... WOW what an amazing game!
Of a Phoenix Wright game I'm surprised that no moment in it bored me. Not even in the investigations. It was as if every piece of dialogue had something interesting to show me, and the Witch Trials were superb.
And also, I've heard some people complain about the ending being bad or disappointing. I don't really know what they had expected since Layton was involved, but I do understand why they'd be if they hadn't played a Layton game before.
I really loved the game from start to finish. It's probably right up there with Phoenix Wright 1 and Trials & Tribulations for me. It's way better than Dual Destinies was, that's for sure!
Of a Phoenix Wright game I'm surprised that no moment in it bored me. Not even in the investigations. It was as if every piece of dialogue had something interesting to show me, and the Witch Trials were superb.
And also, I've heard some people complain about the ending being bad or disappointing. I don't really know what they had expected since Layton was involved, but I do understand why they'd be if they hadn't played a Layton game before.
I really loved the game from start to finish. It's probably right up there with Phoenix Wright 1 and Trials & Tribulations for me. It's way better than Dual Destinies was, that's for sure!
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I was enchanted by almost every moment of this 30-hour long game! I just beat it today, and... WOW what an amazing game!
Of a Phoenix Wright game I'm surprised that no moment in it bored me. Not even in the investigations. It was as if every piece of dialogue had something interesting to show me, and the Witch Trials were superb.
And also, I've heard some people complain about the ending being bad or disappointing. I don't really know what they had expected since Layton was involved, but I do understand why they'd be if they hadn't played a Layton game before.
I really loved the game from start to finish. It's probably right up there with Phoenix Wright 1 and Trials & Tribulations for me. It's way better than Dual Destinies was, that's for sure!
Im not dissapointed for the explanation per se, because it makes sense, but I thing it brings it down
1
Darklaw is not really a villian but the poor girl really killed like a thousand people and her mother by accident (and his father dies becuase he couldnt cope with the lies). The ending is also a happy one, but it doesn't make sense becuase a real person would turn crazy knowing that. Sincerely I would have blamed something like the air or and animal playing the bell, instead of giving the fault to one of the girls, it wouldn't have change a thing of the aftermatch.
Layton handles the problem in a terrible way, he may be a magnificent puzzle resolver and archeologist, but he's no phsycologist, I can assure you that. He drives two girls crazy only to discover the stupid truth that was in no way needed (im refereing the blaming someone, not the truth about the village that was already resolved).
Is worse when in DD Phoenix handles a similar situation MUCH better.
Is worse when in DD Phoenix handles a similar situation MUCH better.
In loved, the first part of the trial with the
10 soldiers up until you discover the flower girl in the tower
the narrator gives the explanation of the village and the anime custcenes with the fire
I think is when Espella goes to the top of the tower
And when this game is good, is really good, but I also think Dual Destinies is at the end of the day a much better Phoenix Wright game and more fun to play, and, apart of some amazing witnesses and Maya in this game, has much better main characters for the cases.
I was enchanted by almost every moment of this 30-hour long game! I just beat it today, and... WOW what an amazing game!
Of a Phoenix Wright game I'm surprised that no moment in it bored me. Not even in the investigations. It was as if every piece of dialogue had something interesting to show me, and the Witch Trials were superb.
And also, I've heard some people complain about the ending being bad or disappointing. I don't really know what they had expected since Layton was involved, but I do understand why they'd be if they hadn't played a Layton game before.
I really loved the game from start to finish. It's probably right up there with Phoenix Wright 1 and Trials & Tribulations for me. It's way better than Dual Destinies was, that's for sure!
Couldn't agree more!
It is an fantastic game, the best game of the year so far for me no doubt.
It absolutely crushes Dual Destinies, which almost felt a bit like a fake AA game to me at least.
Such a shame it's over, at least there's the mini episodes to look forward too
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Couldn't agree more!
It is an fantastic game, the best game of the year so far for me no doubt.
It absolutely crushes Dual Destinies, which almost felt a bit like a fake AA game to me at least.
Such a shame it's over, at least there's the mini episodes to look forward too
I don't really understand this fake AA sentiment. What about it is fake apart of being a tad bit easier.
This isn't a common consensus, but I'm also in that camp, that Dual Destinies felt like a fan-fic or a "fake" Ace Attorney game. The vibe in Dual Destinies is just not the same as it was in either the first three games nor in AJ:AA. Not that it has to, but it just feels like it's missing something IMHO, particularly because the case scenarios are so overblown and far-fetched. I mean,
Case 5 has a robot-rebellion and the whole thing being centered around a spy sent by the government and a prosecutor who's practically cosplaying as a samurai for no apparent reason, while also having a job outside of being a convict is just too far-fetched even for Ace Attorney
FYI Dual Destinies was also the first mainline game to not be written by Shu Takumi who wrote all the 4 other games including Trials & Tribulations and Apollo Justice.
Well, to each their own, I guess. I think there is also a common consensus that Dual Destinies is better, but why so many seem to think that, is something I haven't been able to get behind
Spieler Eins
Member
All more reasonable than Mayas shitty powers that completely ruined AA3. And certainly not any less farfetched than this game's ending.
Still, this game is better than DD, but DD is better than all the others except AA1.
Yeah Dual Destinies just didn't feel "right", something was off about it. It's hard to put a finger on but it just felt very random? And it was waay too simplified, I really missed the exploration.
But I don't want to start a big discussion about it, this is just how I feel.
Feel free to disagree
But I don't want to start a big discussion about it, this is just how I feel.
Feel free to disagree
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Far fetched? the series has freaking ghosts!!
And I already knew this, but I don't treat Shu Takumi as a writting god like some people on neogaf treat him, in fact he is the man that accomplish to do the best and worst in the series. A mediocre Justice for all and a horrible apollo justice, thats also from him, and as much as he says, Apollo Justice didn't only suck becuase of the forced Phoenix Wright, it sucked because the majority of characters are pretty mediocre.
The writting team of Dual Destinies did a much better job than him creating an Ace Attorney game after the fantastic Trials and Tribulations, and they even made intersting bland characters from Apollo Justice.
Dont get me wrong, the man writes amazingly well (Ace Attorney, final case of Justice for All, Trials and Tribulations and Ghost Trick all assest that), but he is not god, and the series can continue perfectly without him.
And Dual Destinies is easier, but also plays much better. The multiple witnesses thing is amazing and fun, but the rest of the trials gameplay is sincerely, the worst in the series after the convulted special ending case in PW1. Who really thought it was a good idea to present something that works, but doesn't bring new info or changes the statement, but the game creates an invisible flag that wants to to press again a statement you aready read fully (because it came before), but this time at the end it changes the last sentence, all this with out fast forward text. BRILLIANT! And the game does this in multiple instances. It breaks the flow of the game and is not fun.
I understand not everyone think Takumi is a godly writer like me and, like you said, some others at NeoGAF do, and I do also understand why. His latest games have had a couple of plot-holes in them, most notably Apollo Justice had a lot of issues and is generally considered the low-point of the franchise if I'm not mistaken.
To me it still boils down to the fact that despite of Takumi not always doing his best, he's still leaps and bounds over the new writer Takeshi Yamazaki IMHO, mainly because Takumi knows how to write great dialogue, and to be honest I remember the series more for its humor and dark tales than I remember it for its convoluted crime-scenarios.
One thing I just haven't been able to like in either Ace Attorney Investigations nor Dual Destinies was Yamazaki's tendency to make crimes ridiculously convoluted... as in, even more over-the-top and long-winded than what Takumi used to make. As a result I found myself dozing off several times during each of the case in the respective games; and all because the characters kept repeating the details over and over about space-elevators and rooms switching place and stuff like that. It was just not interesting to me at all.
So despite of Takumi probably having more plot-holes and mistakes in his case-scenarios than the new guy, I still think Takumi has a better sense of creating mysteries and tales that you get invested in. I understand that's not "Ace Attorney" is to everyone though.
As for whether the series can continue without Takumi? Well sure it "can", but honestly I'm not sure if I'd want to buy the next one Yamazaki writes. People have been talking about how Ace Attorney Investigations 2 is one of the best in the franchise... strangely it's also the only one that hasn't been localized, so it's a VERY niche group of people that have played it so far. I've played until case 3, and while I can admit I like it better than the first Investigations game so far, it's still got the same issues I found with the first one as well as Dual Destinies. Crimes are too convoluted and too over-the-top and it's what the characters go on and on about for 60% of the time. To me it gets monotonous and if that's the future of Ace Attorney, then you can count me out as a fan. That's pretty much how i feel about the whole "Ace Attorney without Takumi" thing
And I'm sorry if I'm starting to throw this discussion off-topic. I'll stop it here
To me it still boils down to the fact that despite of Takumi not always doing his best, he's still leaps and bounds over the new writer Takeshi Yamazaki IMHO, mainly because Takumi knows how to write great dialogue, and to be honest I remember the series more for its humor and dark tales than I remember it for its convoluted crime-scenarios.
One thing I just haven't been able to like in either Ace Attorney Investigations nor Dual Destinies was Yamazaki's tendency to make crimes ridiculously convoluted... as in, even more over-the-top and long-winded than what Takumi used to make. As a result I found myself dozing off several times during each of the case in the respective games; and all because the characters kept repeating the details over and over about space-elevators and rooms switching place and stuff like that. It was just not interesting to me at all.
So despite of Takumi probably having more plot-holes and mistakes in his case-scenarios than the new guy, I still think Takumi has a better sense of creating mysteries and tales that you get invested in. I understand that's not "Ace Attorney" is to everyone though.
As for whether the series can continue without Takumi? Well sure it "can", but honestly I'm not sure if I'd want to buy the next one Yamazaki writes. People have been talking about how Ace Attorney Investigations 2 is one of the best in the franchise... strangely it's also the only one that hasn't been localized, so it's a VERY niche group of people that have played it so far. I've played until case 3, and while I can admit I like it better than the first Investigations game so far, it's still got the same issues I found with the first one as well as Dual Destinies. Crimes are too convoluted and too over-the-top and it's what the characters go on and on about for 60% of the time. To me it gets monotonous and if that's the future of Ace Attorney, then you can count me out as a fan. That's pretty much how i feel about the whole "Ace Attorney without Takumi" thing
And I'm sorry if I'm starting to throw this discussion off-topic. I'll stop it here
I agree with this. While I liked Dual Destinies for its characters and settings, I really dislike how complex the crime scenes can get. My favourite case in the series is Turnabout Goodbyes, because once you figure out who did it, everything just sort of clicks. Even though
the killer intentionally set things up to make the crime scene appear different, the explanation is simple and clear, as is the motive.
L'belle's
As well as this, the motives behind the characters doing all these complex things just don't feel human. They really go through these extra lengths to put the body somewhere else because reasons.
I agree that it's better than the first, but so far, I'm having the same problem with Ace Attorney Investigations 2, especially case 3. People talk a lot about how good it is because you get to play as
Greg
I just find it so much easier to play through Takumi's games. I've still not finished this one, but I'm enjoying the murder methods and explanations a lot more. If this game and Ghost Trick have shown me anything, it's that Takumi's good at creating fantasy worlds that still have their own established rules and boundaries, in addition to good pacing. Apologies if this is too off-topic.
Linkstrikesback
Member
I've forgotten where puzzles go when you miss them in this game.
Someone remind me!
Someone remind me!