It's offering no real innovation or improvements to the gameplay sector over what we had last gen. The PS4 has the touchpad at least.
Programming Issues on XBox One - Johnathon Blow
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
It's offering no real innovation or improvements to the gameplay sector over what we had last gen. The PS4 has the touchpad at least.
The systems are pretty much identical apart from a weaker GPU, lower memory bandwidth and lower memory latency in the Xbox One. The PS3 and 360 were very different.
Hot Coldman
Banned
The contrast between the views of the indies and the big boys is hilarious.
Rumble in triggers? (pretty huge IMO)
Apart from that improvements in games usually appear inside the game.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Higher numbers are better, lower numbers are worse.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Leave the Xbone alone!
Seriously if you can't handle some harsh truths then I wouldn't really be appalled.
We are judging the situation as it is currently and as it sits, it's sub par in Xbox land right now.
LOL you must have not been here during 2007.
Fried Food
Banned
is the touchpad your idea innovation/improvement to the gameplay sector? Just trying to understand you. If that's what you are saying then isn't an improved kinect in every box a valid improvement?
It sounds like you are saying new gameplay experiences can't come from improved console specs + and the overarching console environment.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Go and read the Xbox facebook group - every official post is being shat upon by hundreds of 'fans' of the page. It's not just GAF that has reacted badly to the Xbone.
Dave Cutler is working on OS and VM for the X1 so I'm guessing things will be fine.
This doesn't mean anything.
dude, you're posting is so bad your making me post in gaming side for the first time in i dont know how many years. If you think GAF is biased towards sony you need to go back and take a long look at the E3 threads for 2006 and Sony Launch threads.
- CPU is (probably) the same. They are otherwise identical being eight Jaguar (the name of the CPU core architecture, low powered core from AMD) cores.
- GPU cores, higher for PS4. They have the same GPU architecture so PS4 wins.
- Memory bandwidth, higher and better for PS4 again.
BlazingDarkness
Member
It means that GAF's reaction is more than 'GAF being GAF' or 'GAF having an agenda'.
Your'e wrong. It means these reactions are being shared even by XBox fans, not just some anti-Microsoft agenda that Neogaf has. In other words, the complaints are legit.
There is a huge power gap between the two, it is absolutely not too early to point out that the PS4 is a far more capable machine.
VibratingDonkey
Member
I'm not sure, but I don't think he likes that.Tim Schafer said:
We know the PS4 is the most powerful console and easy to develop for. The facts are clear as day. The PS4 has 50% more GPU cores than the XBO and RAM that is nearly 3x as fast. If there are development issues for the XBO then that's yet another strike against the system. However, I don't think this is a case where it is too difficult to develop for. What I am concerned about is the lowest common denominator factor. However, if most games are developed for PC first, I suspect that shouldn't be an issue. What is clear, based on what we have seen from both consoles (which is very little), the graphical prowess of the PS4 clearly shines. And I might add, some of the ingame stuff we saw from the PS4 looks better than the cg stuff we saw at the XBO event.
Fried Food
Banned
They both have 8 cores and the XBO's ESRAM makes up for a good deal of the memory difference
Delusibeta
Banned
I'm not convinced 32Mb of fast RAM would be good enough to do anything with.
Fried Food
Banned
Smarter people than anyone in this thread say otherwise
Buttermilk
Member
Xbox Experience, has a nice ring to it.
GDDR5 and DDR3 are fundamentally different. GDDR is bound to a GPU, DDR3 is more of a resource type memory, or system memory. The reason you see nothing for PS4 under e-ram is because everything is unified in one giant pool with super fast (about 2.5x the Mhz) GDDR5 RAM. 32Mb is a negligible ace when you have 8 gigs over it with a 2.5 frequency rate over the competitors 8 GIGS. Not only can it access it faster, so less latency, it also transfers at a much higher rate. eram is hardly an ace when it is only at 102 gb/s and DDR3 at 68.. speed of ps4 is actually 176 gbs for all RAM, so no bottlenecks.
The number of cores is also significantly higher, but that is probably more easier to understand. More cores, same GPU family, is most likely going to better.
Could it be the overhead linking OS the mentioned (one of the three that will work together)? Or was it Kinect dedicated? I am curious to know it's function.
That's the thing that stands out the most to me.
rohlfinator
Member
It's a cache, they're always tiny compared to the full memory pool. I don't think it's expected to close the gap with the PS4, but Microsoft wouldn't be devoting so much die space to it if it didn't do anything.
These are only the complaints of a small amount of people. Same thing happened with Kinect.
CambriaRising
Member
It really isn't.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
It makes the RAM situation on the XBO a bit less terrible for games, but it is still nowhere close to what the PS4 has. It also makes memory management more difficult when developing for it, since you constantly have to shuffle data between different memory pools instead of just having one large pool of very fast memory. Unless that data shuffling is handled automatically by the system of course, but I suspect you'd have to do at least some of it manually in order to get the most performance out of it.
soxinthebox
Member
Video games don't blur in the same way when panning like films. I don't think it's really an apt comparison.
Silverthorn
Member
And this is why Microsoft is evil and needs to lose. You don't want a company holding back progress through contracts, money hatting and back room deals....they should be spending the time building the best hardware and games instead of doing whatever they are...I don't get them.
The big media sites have no problems with the X1. Unless you think most of the 70+ million video game console owners are hardcore gamers? Kinect got the exact same reactions from gaf and a lot of negativity on facebook and twitter. And it did well anyways.
Uno Venova
Banned
What big media sites have no problem with it?
ProfessorMoran
Member
Interesting comments:
Other dev comments:
Other developer reactions;
Quote:
From the cheers of the crowd (or coming perhaps from somewhere else), it's clear that those who were in attendance during Microsoft's Xbox One unveiling were indeed impressed. But what about the people who will be making games for it, what did the developers think about it? A number of them took to the modern soapbox of our day, Twitter, to express their personal feelings towards the new console.
Who were cheering in the crowd? Gerstmann said it's not from the press.
8 CPU cores. PS4's GPU has 50% more cores than the XBO's.
Includes you right? Cause all the "smarter" people outside this thread (digital foundry, devs, Anandtech etc) have overwhelmingly given the nod to the PS4.
Anandtech stated that if used correctly the eSRAM makes the difference between DDR3 and GDDR5 negligible. The GPU seems to be a bit of a different story though.
because they were taking notes on their laptops
Edit: oh and as much as the mindset here by the posters the last two days is an expectation that this is some Death Blow to MS and Xbox One... :lol
no. not gonna happen that way folks.
nice to see some people reading what is really being said
Sites like Forbes, CNN, and the NYTimes.
I don't keep up with game sales very much. It's a tiresome endeavour. But I do wonder about the "success" of Kinect. How many big sellers on Xbox 360 are Kinect only titles. What's the attach rate for Kinect only titles?
It's one thing to say that MS moved a lot of units. But are they selling Kinect specific software at a high and healthy rate, and furthermore are third parties doing the same?
That's success.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
it depends on if whoever is talking thinks LATENCY is more important than BANDWIDTH.
if throwing a small nerf footballs at 1000mph at a someone is better for getting footballs to him than throwing exercise-ball-sized footballs at him but only at 700mph. some think the guy will accumulate more weight in footballs in the first scenario than in the second scenario. DF and others thing the latter is better.
also: the first method is complicated because instead of there being one big pool of solid memory, there's the esram and then the big pool of DDR3. the data has to change hands. with PS4 there is just the 8GB GDDR5 and that's it. very simple. and not to mention that 3GB of it isn't being used for 3 operating systems either.
I've checked both CNN and the NYT and neither of them appear to have articles that are glowingly positive about the console. The CNN article is purely factual and the NYT articulates the challenges the console will face:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/technology/xbox-one-faces-wider-range-of-competition.html
bigboss370
Member
also Xbone RAM for games is 5GB, while 3GB is for the OS'. PS4 likely uses more than 5GB of its 8GB RAM.
They dont say it will make up for it but rather say it with caveats;
They then go on and also note the complexity of Microsoft's approach;Anandtech said:
And then they go on to say the effective memory bandwidth being less is intentional;
Arent you supposed to be talking up the audio processor in the Xbox one?
Arent you supposed to be talking up the audio processor in the Xbox one?
And the cloud processing
I've read about 30 articles today and the tone in the comments is damn near pure unanimous disdain for the xbone...sites like abcnews have hundreds of comments...gamespots tweet challenge that they buried once it appeared only Iraq favored it the xbone.
Big media has been mostly positive, like they fell for the 'skype grandma' and 'make watching tv better schtick', but the comments are a mob scene.
They dont say it will make up for it but rather say it with caveats;
They then go on and also note the complexity of Microsoft's approach;
And then they go on to say the effective memory bandwidth being less is intentional;
Arent you supposed to be talking up the audio processor in the Xbox one?
So basically you just restated exactly what I said? It's implicit that dealing with a slightly more exotic memory set up will be more complex, but it's not the first system to be set up in such a manner. Devs should be accustomed to this by now?
Furthermore, article goes on to state:
Even with that said, the GPU seems to be the difference maker. How much so, I guess we will have to wait and see.
bigboss370
Member
say what?
They actually didn't reach other than cable companies, EA and CoD. GG I guess... I mean if you value those as a worthy entertainment options.
Personally I sure not.