PS4 turning into versatile (PC-ish?) platform?

B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
So PS4 was always an indie darling since its intro. However just judging by the official blog site, announcements since release, and actual releases makeup... Whereas previous gens were very much about AAA tier publisher output, PS4 seems focused on maintaining a very versatile game output. The majority of post-launch titles have been indie. Many of it's biggest and most frequently played game in the community are F2P and or MMOs of some sort. And upcoming what are it's AAA titles? Well, of the next few AAA releases, there are no fewer than two MMORPGs.

Now at surface glance this seems like I'm just heaping praise, but it's really more of a question to everyone. Is this what you expected? Is it what you want?

I was talking with another buddy and he mentioned as I was ragging on XBONE that "I saw TitanFall and Forza running and they looked GOOD. I don't think many owners are crying themselves to sleep." to which my response was "of course they looked good. They are next-gen (now current-gen) games!" Of course I reminded him of the gameplay trailers for things like inFAMOUS SS and MGS V.But it really got me thinking. There aren't a whole ton of "whoa. Now THIS IS NEXT GEN" games in the pipeline (that we know of) for PS4. Granted I don't know much about XBONE, so I am not at all drawing comparisons. But just talking about PS4 in a vacuum, most of what you see announced, reported on, and launched are a handful of AAA titles, and then a ton of indies.

So again, is it what you expected and/or what you want?

My personal take is that I see the problems in the AAA developers/publishers. The industry simply can't sustain as many of those projects as it has in previous generations. However just like summer movies, those are the projects that blow people away and bring in the big numbers. It almost to me seems imbalanced toward indie at this point to overcompensate for the issues currently facing AAA development. As a result you have a PS4 that has a wide swath of developement for it.. Online, MMO, indie, PC-ports (or vice versa), and AAA. But when it comes to those summer movies.. the AAA titles that make people go "wow", there seems to be much less announced or shown now than any other generation past. So I'm still having fun... but hope that sooner than later there will be come continuous "wow" moments. I guess there is always that standard "wait for E3".

edit - to clear things up, I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO SAID IT WAS MORE VERSATILE THAN PC! I just said it was becoming more PC-ish in its release lineup. I do not support the views or opinions of the poster who made that crazy comment.
 
I think Sony made some good decisions on the publishing end and since it's easier than ever to get a port working, obviously there's a ton of support. As a consumer I don't really care. I think the situation on PS4 right now is great. There are big games looming on the horizon.
 
PlayStation has always been the most versatile console platform.

I'd argue more versatile than PC too if it didn't have mods, but that's another thing all together.
 
I think for some people they equate indie games to crappy shareware games from the old PC days. Decent ideas in a half ass body. Fast forward to 2014 and Indie companies are much more; talent filled and inspired developers with previous AAA game design experience looking to bring their passion to the screen without the limitations of marketing telling them what sells. As more an more we see AAA companies cutting staff over the numbers game, these individuals are getting fed up and more than a few are choosing to go it their own way and stopping the AAA bounce from company to company.

Regarding Sony specifically, I don't know their motivation, but it was great that they went this route as it will expose their players to a much more diverse and interesting pool of games. No doubt they will still have their big games as well, but these independent titles will create competition and make everyone better off in the end.
 
Pankratous said:
PlayStation has always been the most versatile console platform.

I'd argue more versatile than PC too if it didn't have mods, but that's another thing all together.
Click to expand...

That'd be one hell of a losing argument. Also, money-hatting a handful of indie PC devs does not in any way shape or form make the Ps4 indie lineup comparable ot the PC one. Sorry to burst that bubble.

That being said, courting and investing in the indie scene is certianly a smart thing for Sony to do. Even big AAA devs are moving away from those huge projects and ar elooking to get into smaller teams, more agile development cycles.
 
I think it's fair to say that PC gaming will still continue to be the indie haven it's always been (moreso now with Steam than it's ever been), but for those that just don't rock PC, PS4 is probably going to be the best bet at playing those titles.

As for AAA whoa gfx, give it a year or two for devs to open it up.
 
Pankratous said:
I'd argue more versatile than PC too if it didn't have mods, but that's another thing all together.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see you try to make that argument, I can't see how any console gets even remotely close.

Also, while indies are doing well on the PS4 (and even the Vita/WiiU), they are still very much closed platforms. The PC, being an open platform, will continue to be the platform of choice for the vast majority of indie developers.
 
Pankratous said:
PlayStation has always been the most versatile console platform.

I'd argue more versatile than PC too if it didn't have mods, but that's another thing all together.
Click to expand...

I think many would argue that XBLIG was a far more versatile branch than anything Sony had done PS3 and prior.

(it's a shame MS handled XBLIG so poorly. But it was still incredibly progressive to allow devs to make home consoles into pseudo dev kits.)
 
Pankratous said:
PlayStation has always been the most versatile console platform.

I'd argue more versatile than PC too if it didn't have mods, but that's another thing all together.
Click to expand...

it's true. it's difficult for the PC to truly match the variety of third person cinematic action games coming to the PS4.

AAA is in a hellish quagmire right now and sony has has no choice but to push the PS4 as a pale reflection of what's happening in the PC space. even if that means rolling out the fanfare every time a six month old indie port graces their game bereft platform.
 
Phawx said:
I think many would argue that XBLIG was a far more versatile branch than anything Sony had done PS3 and prior.

(it's a shame MS handled XBLIG so poorly. But it was still incredibly progressive to allow devs to make home consoles into pseudo dev kits.)
Click to expand...

ehh.... XBLIG was half of a good idea. unfortunately as you pointed out, the other half of that idea went horribly wrong. I'd argue that the current indie setup on PS4 is a much better implementation, though yeah it would be awesome if Sony follows suit with MS (who has already said they are going to allow XBONEs to be "dev kitted")

Mind you I'm not complaining about the PS4 lineup. A good game is a good game whether it's made by 2 or 200 devs. Just as an almost-40 year old gamer you get used to the cycle of "new system(s) release(s). wow'ed for the next 12-18 months." and this cycle has been very different from every generation I've been apart of since the 2600.
 
TangoAlphaLima said:
Mostly. But I've never seen a PC stream games to a Vita before.
.
Click to expand...

There are things like splashtop and then nvidia shield that exist.

And FWIW I don't see how the PS4 can be seen as "versatile" when there is currently 0 backwards compatability.

I love my PS4 but seriously... This is not a road you want to go down. It's a closed platform, end of.
 
borghe said:
ehh.... XBLIG was half of a good idea. unfortunately as you pointed out, the other half of that idea went horribly wrong. I'd argue that the current indie setup on PS4 is a much better implementation, though yeah it would be awesome if Sony follows suit with MS (who has already said they are going to allow XBONEs to be "dev kitted")

Mind you I'm not complaining about the PS4 lineup. A good game is a good game whether it's made by 2 or 200 devs. Just as an almost-40 year old gamer you get used to the cycle of "new system(s) release(s). wow'ed for the next 12-18 months." and this cycle has been very different from every generation I've been apart of since the 2600.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "indie setup"?
 
TangoAlphaLima said:
Mostly. But I've never seen a PC stream games to a Vita before.
Click to expand...

It already streams to the Shield, and it will soon stream to a variety of tablets and set top devices when Steam integrates it. It will only get better and more versatile as anyone can join the game at any time.

Whereas Vita and PS4 are locked to eachother for good. It's an impossible argument.
 
ghst said:
it's true. it's difficult for the PC to truly match the variety of thrid person cinematic action games coming to the PS4.

AAA is in a hellish quagmire right now and sony has has no choice but to push the PS4 as a pale reflection of what's happening in the PC space. even if that means rolling out the fanfare every time a six month old indie port graces their game bereft platform.
Click to expand...

Oh shit.
 
Pankratous said:
PlayStation has always been the most versatile console platform.

I'd argue more versatile than PC too if it didn't have mods, but that's another thing all together.
Click to expand...



To be fair, the versatility of PC doesn't come only from mods, but also from the fact that it has virtually perfect backward compatibility, freedom of choice about OS and hardware etc...


Now, to answer your question OP (because I wouldn't want to make a thread derailling :p ), I don't think PS4 is turning into a versatile platform. Variety always existed on consoles, from indie titles to AAA titles, with niche titles and such.
 
borghe said:
ehh.... XBLIG was half of a good idea. unfortunately as you pointed out, the other half of that idea went horribly wrong. I'd argue that the current indie setup on PS4 is a much better implementation, though yeah it would be awesome if Sony follows suit with MS (who has already said they are going to allow XBONEs to be "dev kitted")

Mind you I'm not complaining about the PS4 lineup. A good game is a good game whether it's made by 2 or 200 devs. Just as an almost-40 year old gamer you get used to the cycle of "new system(s) release(s). wow'ed for the next 12-18 months." and this cycle has been very different from every generation I've been apart of since the 2600.
Click to expand...

I am totally in agreement with you. The PS4 is clearly looking like the winner for indie devs this gen already. Sony is making all of the right moves and has a base that makes porting from PC to PS4 easier.

My comment was towards @Pankratous saying "PlayStation has always been the most versatile console platform." And while Net Yoroze was an interesting thing, it didn't breed nearly as many indie devs.

My argument is that XBLIG which spawned XNA proved FAR more valuable for indies than anything Sony did prior to the PS4.

see5harp said:
What do you mean by "indie setup"?
Click to expand...

My interpretation is less with regards to tools and more of freedom-of-bureaucracy and self publishing that Sony instituted for PS4
 
Probably wasn't a good idea to include "PC-ish" in your title.

Pankratous said:
I'd argue more versatile than PC too if it didn't have mods, but that's another thing all together.
Click to expand...

Okay, it definitely wasn't.
 
ShowDog said:
It already streams to the Shield, and it will soon stream to a variety of tablets and set top devices when Steam integrates it. It will only get better and more versatile as anyone can join the game at any time.

Whereas Vita and PS4 are locked to eachother for good. It's an impossible argument.
Click to expand...

How does streaming to more devices help? You only need it to stream to one. And until something surpasses the Vita (unless for some reason you think the Nvidia Shield already does), then it provides the best remote play option.
 
TangoAlphaLima said:
Mostly. But I've never seen a PC stream games to a Vita before.
Click to expand...

Not to a Vita, yet, but to just about any Android device (that have cheaper memory cards anyway).
ShowDog said:
It already streams to the Shield, and it will soon stream to a variety of tablets and set top devices when Steam integrates it. It will only get better and more versatile as anyone can join the game at any time.

Whereas Vita and PS4 are locked to eachother for good. It's an impossible argument.
Click to expand...
Let's not act like a thing doesn't exist until a big company like Valve or Sony or Nvidia jumps into it. A vast variety of remote access solutions has been around for quite a while.
 
ShowDog said:
It already streams to the Shield, and it will soon stream to a variety of tablets and set top devices when Steam integrates it. It will only get better and more versatile as anyone can join the game at any time.

Whereas Vita and PS4 are locked to eachother for good. It's an impossible argument.
Click to expand...

I won't be surprised that PS4 stream will come on any other devices in the future. But it likely only for Sony devices usually, hopefully it will come to an app for iOS and Android.
 
The closed nature of a platform means by design it's not going to be anywhere near as versatile as a PC. That indies are finding sales is a good thing and is a commonality on many currently released devices (even ones that are tanking at retail). That doesn't equate to a platform being as or more versatile than one that's completely open, because factually it does not. It just means the ps4 is shaping up to be a varied closed platform with a lot of great content big and small, which it is. :)
 
TangoAlphaLima said:
How does streaming to more devices help? You only need it to stream to one. And until something surpasses the Vita (unless for some reason you think the Nvidia Shield already does), then it provides the best remote play option.
Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken, the Shield's screen is higher resolution and it can display streamed games at 60fps while the Vita is locked at 30.
 
Perhaps if the OP had just said that "ease of development and self publishing seems to have gotten better with PS4" instead of comparing the platform to PC (and then XBOX), he'd have more support.
 
animlboogy said:
What a derail. Hey bro, care to explain before this goes any further?
Click to expand...

all I meant is that consoles in prior gens were very AAA publisher focused. Even the middle tier games were simply smaller budgeted games from.... AAA publishers.

This gen, so far on PS4, there is a much larger spotlight being shown on small projects and because of how Sony has setup publishing, small projects from indie developers. As a result were prior gens were largely AAA publishers focusing on a few varied genres, this gen on PS4 are a wide variety of indie devs focusing on a wide variety of genres, and a smaller gathering of AAA publishers focusing on a smaller variety of "safe" genres.

The end result is very similar to where the PC has been for years now with steam. AAA publishing and "safe" genres taking up a very small footprint of Steam releases. The result is variety and "diamond in the rough" discovery and talent. Great for the industry! However it also means fewer and far between "wow" moments.

perfectsil said:
it's more indie friendly than XB1 but just how can you say that compare to PC? it's only getiing a small % of indies on PC
Click to expand...

again, was referring more to the indie footprint growing and overtaking the AAA footprint.. not actual like-quantity or parity or anything.
 
The Order 1886 looks phenomenal and the most 'next gen' of any announced title imo. Then of course there are multiplats that will undoubtedly run at higher fidelity on PS4 such as Destiny, Ground Zeroes, and Watch Dogs. Also, Infamous is probably going to end up being jaw dropping as more media is released after its launch, what we've seen has looked great and I expect even more from that game.
 
ghst said:
it's true. it's difficult for the PC to truly match the variety of thrid person cinematic action games coming to the PS4.

AAA is in a hellish quagmire right now and sony has has no choice but to push the PS4 as a pale reflection of what's happening in the PC space. even if that means rolling out the fanfare every time a six month old indie port graces their game bereft platform.
Click to expand...
Daaaaaaaaaamn.
 
There is always a lack of games in the first year of a console's life, so this drought is fully expected. From a business standpoint it makes sense too. Why release your expensive AAA on a console that has not built up its player base yet? Early on, the longer you wait to release the more games you'll sell. The system is gaining over 1 million more potential game buyers each month.

The types of games you are seeing now, ports, crossgen and indies, are the types of games that can thrive in a low playerbase environment. They are either being released or already exist on other more established platforms so the new console doesn't have to support the entire development costs, or they are relatively inexpensive to begin with.

I also assume that Sony is holding back game announcements in order to have some surprises for E3. On top of that, if the rumors are true that Sony is about to announce VR support for the PS4 then it is likely that they have some VR games in development that can't be announced until the VR itself is announced.

TL;DR Game drought is expected and there are good reasons to expect that Sony is sitting on game announcements.
 
I think console-centric gamers have a warped sense of what "good indie support" is compared to the rest of the industry.

The PS4 is doing better than the Xbox One or Wii U with indies, surely. But compared to PC? iOS? Android? Browser gaming? I don't think people realize how many indie games come out for those platforms a day let alone every month. This could certainly change, mind you. I just think people look at a system like the PS4 and see a few award winning indie games on the way and think this qualifies as good support because their point of reference is exclusively older consoles which had little or no indie support at all.
 
There are a ton of "THIS IS NEXT GET" software coming to consoles. They're just multiplatform.

Destiny, Watch Dogs, Call of Duty Next, Assassin's Creed Next, etc.
 
Opiate said:
I think console-centric gamers have a warped sense of what "good indie support" is compared to the rest of the industry.

The PS4 is doing better than the Xbox One or Wii U with indies, surely. But compared to PC? iOS? Android? Browser gaming? I don't think people realize how many indie games come out for those platforms a day let alone every month.
Click to expand...

throwing mobile and browser in there is pretty unfair as the barrier to entry to those markets is essentially nil (well, $99/year for mobile. hosting for browser.)

edit - also to clear things up, I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO SAID IT WAS MORE VERSATILE THAN PC! I just said it was becoming more PC-ish in its release lineup. I do not support the views or opinions of the poster who made that crazy comment.
 
Eh, you have to pay for MP now so that's not a comparison and it's still a very closed environment. But I do agree they've opened up some some of their channels to be more developer friendly (from my basic understanding).
 
Any hardware with proprietary, hard wired, non-modifiable components, with severe limitations on connectable devices and peripherals, a proprietary, closed operating system, and limited access to the file system is not as versatile as a PC.
 
Out of the consoles, Sony is doing the best job of reaching out to indie developers, and they are on track to having more Unity support as well compared to their competitors. And with Sony's downsizing and business woes it makes sense why indies are an asset. But I fail to see the PC comparisons.

But when it comes to lack of AAA I have to say this generation is more like cross-gen. There were plenty of titles at launch but they were rushed, and we will see them again at the end of this year.

Sony's biggest AAA weakness would be the lack of exclusive multiplayer titles with legs.


TangoAlphaLima said:
How does streaming to more devices help? You only need it to stream to one. And until something surpasses the Vita (unless for some reason you think the Nvidia Shield already does), then it provides the best remote play option.
Click to expand...

Shield has better hardware, bigger battery, higher screen resolution, ergonomic controls, and faster streaming. Vita's only real strength is in its exclusives and pricetag (minus the memory stick and paywall, but then again you need a Nvidia card for Shield).
 
borghe said:
throwing mobile and browser in there is pretty unfair as the barrier to entry to those markets is essentially nil (well, $99/year for mobile. hosting for browser.)
Click to expand...

So iOS/PC/etc. are "cheating" because the barriers to entry are so low? It's not PC's fault that the barriers to entry on consoles are high. Nobody told Sony they had to make a closed platform.

Broadly, I believe what you are saying is that this problem is systemic to consoles. I agree.
 
ghst said:
it's true. it's difficult for the PC to truly match the variety of third person cinematic action games coming to the PS4.

AAA is in a hellish quagmire right now and sony has has no choice but to push the PS4 as a pale reflection of what's happening in the PC space. even if that means rolling out the fanfare every time a six month old indie port graces their game bereft platform.
Click to expand...

This man knows what's up.
 
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