PS4 turning into versatile (PC-ish?) platform?
- Thread starter borghe
- Start date
And that's precisely why comparing PC and console is unfair as well, absolutely anyone can write a PC program and send it to people. The barrier to entry is £0.
Also, the barrier for Android is less than that for iOS. I think I spent about £15 on mine.
It's actually consoles that have an insanely high barrier to entry, and why comparing indie output on them to the PC sounds crazy to me. Most indies never touch consoles because of those barriers to entry.
I didn't include PC in there because, while you can distribute on your own website, real sales dollars really need to come from online stores which are a much closer barrier to entry as say PS4 or XBONE.
Also I think there's a tooling issue on consoles. Only time will tell if the tools eventually reach a point like they have on mobile or PC where you have engines and frameworks available that allow very small teams rapid turnaround on quality products.
Lastly... Sony needs a referral program for its web store and devs to be able to purchase/distribute their own keys easily to get marketing out there more.
Not sure the likelihood on any of this.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Which is fine, if the choices are better. But if they're not, why do you need them?
To an Android device using touch controls? Or requiring a separate controller? Does not sound like a great option to me.
544 to 720 on the resolution, so yeah, the Shield wins that. And it does allow 60fps streaming versus the Vita's 30fps.
But it's also more expensive. It's twice as heavy and much bulkier. And streaming is limited to the local network, not over the internet.
Indeed. Good indie support isn't partnering up with some indie developers and helping them release their game on your console.
Good indie support is an open publishing platform, with open, available tools for anyone to download and use. The consoles are nowhere near that at the moment - Xbox Live Indie Game Arcade was pretty much that, but with stupid restrictions on the games themselves.
Whereas the Vita has poor controls for most console games and you have no other option to change that. Whereas on PC, you could have a variety of devices with different controllers, different form factors, different feature sets - you're not limited to these two specific pieces of hardware. The PC is still more versatile in this regard, I don't know how you could even begin to argue that.
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
Either goes, that's versatility.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Huge mistake mentioning PC. It's the sole focus of the thread now.
Due to PC's not being a closed platform, that's actually not true.
Also, using that god awful back touch panel as buttons is acceptable to you? For real?
Edit: OT, it'll most likely end up as the most versatile of the consoles, though i guess the American version of the X1 would take that for now?
Wiktor
Member
Well..for one thing Nvidia Shield isn't limited by the terribly low res screen Vita had
Both Nintendo and Sony meet these criteria.
It was almost all these two companies talked about last year, from giving away free development kits, to providing free Unity licenses, to removing almost all restrictions on publishing, and allowing self publishing and pricing.
This is patently and demonstrably false. Many of the biggest hits on the PC in the last few years (e.g. Minecraft, League of Legends, Chinese MMOs) have been distributed independently. In case you thought these were the rare exceptions, consider F2P ad supported browser based games, which are a huge industry in themselves and have no centralized store front.
Obviously, you can use a storefront like Steam to help your game find an audience more easily. But the suggestion that it is a prerequisite for success on PC suggests a relative lack of PC knowledge.
Kacho
Member
Playstation has a long ways to go before they can be considered a truly versatile "PC-ish" platform. They've certainly made some good moves with the PS4 to open up additional options that weren't necessarily there before on prior consoles, but I'm not convinced that they are anywhere close to the PC.
Yeah, probably. This will get a ton of replies though. lol
Yeah, probably. This will get a ton of replies though. lol
So it streams better, but it's not a better option for streaming because of unrelated stuff. Gotcha.
I honestly don't know if it can stream over the internet or not so I will take your word for it, but you can't possibly think that won't change at some point.
As a developer who has already jumped through the hoops and could be approved for PS4 development (I sadly do not have the time right now), approval for indie PS4 development is largely just busy work for serious devs. Now I can't speak to the tools themselves.. But at the very least Unity and Unreal are available with the standard licensing agreements for those systems. And from friends I've talked with, the system APIs are pretty much what you'd expect compared to iOS, Android, DirectX, OGL, etc.
fair enough. I don't think it's entirely false, but you make a big point with the largest titles being independently distributed. It's still a closer mix than one OR the other though.
I'll be interested to see if Sony and Microsoft give up so much time at E3 a couple of years from now. I feel like as soon as the AAA train gets going they will be quickly be pushed to the background just like last-gen.
Here you go.
EDIT: Another video since the one in the article that thread is about appears to not work.
No, they don't.
I can't download the SDK, start developing, then test on my PS4 as it stands. I have to go to Sony and beg for a development kit and a deal to publish in the PlayStation store. Nor the WiiU.
This is still 100 miles away from good indie support.
Sony just need to do what they're doing with PSMobile (I can start developing today, test my games on my Vita or a simulator and submit them). Extend that to the PS4 and remove any restrictions that would mean they can't be equal to every other game.
Nothing is more versatile than something you can build yourself.
Captain Tuttle
Member
This is what I expect will happen, by the companies and the fans
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Is there a mod that allows internet streaming for the Shield? It doesn't have that feature out of the box, right?
Regarding the touch panel for buttons, is it ideal? No. But for many games it doesn't all that much anyway. Take AC4 on the Vita. I think the only thing I use the back touchscreen is to use the telescope while sailing, and the front touchscreen is only used to enter Eagle Vision, or whatever the heck that's called. Really not an issue at all.
Unmoses
Member
It's ironic isn't it- Much of the huge cost in the 3d world is art and design assets, and if this Juggernaut of a machine, along with the world of gaming is trending away from AAA large $$$ towards indie (I don't say it is personally, but I've read a few posts recently that suggest this), what's the point? Were the cheap linux based consoles just too soon?
Wii U uses Unity, and PS4 will as well, so you can download Unity Free and start developing on your PC immediately while working out all the other details. Indie self publishing is made easy on the systems also, with "no concept approval", as detailed by Nintendo last year during their indie push.
If you want to just post a zip file on your website for anyone to download, great. However if you wanted to get your game on Steam, you would have to jump through some hoops as well. That's the reality of any distribution system, be it retail stores, Amazon, or one of the major video game companies.
This always irks me. The mentality that these other platforms do not exist or are not relevant to a conversation on a gaming centric forum seems to make no sense to me.
These platforms not only exist, but innovate on a scale so much greater than console platforms. Ignoring the PC's versatility through its open nature and ability to encourage competition and breed both innovation and creativity, is like burying your head in the sand and turning a blind eye to just how crucial these platforms are to moving gaming forward.
But that's the point of an open platform, I don't need it on Steam. Besides, even the controlled ecosystems of platforms like iOS and Windows Phone, it's a lot easier to get my game on those systems than any of the consoles. On Android there isn't even any approval process!
So, with Unity - can I develop my game and then submit it to Sony? I don't need to test it on a PS4? Development tools are getting good these days! Sorry - being tied to a controlled resource that is hardware development kits is dumb and is not open. Either let me order a PS4 dev kit straight up and have it delivered no questions asked, or let me test my game on my own PS4 hardware.
gothamghost
Member
Is Sony more indie friendly now? Seems that way but it has a lot of work ahead of it to be as versatile as a PC.
Yes, they've made some very indie friendly moves: they allow self publishing and they give away development kits.
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ni...pproval-Process-NDAs-Certification-57860.html
In the EU and the US there is no concept approval for [a developer's] game. You can make what you please. You don't have to ask us 'Can I please make a platformer?' ...go ahead and do it.
As far as the hardware, yeah, you need to test your game and use the console development tools. Sony and Nintendo aren't going to do your QA for you. You also can't develop a PC game without a PC.
Lol. I'm not arguing that Sony and Nintendo are stopping people from developing certain types of games.. I'm arguing that the accessibility to get going and submit it is significantly higher than other platforms like the PC (Windows, OSX, Linux) or mobile (iOS, Android, Windows Phone, etc).
I can buy a PC. I can't buy a PS4 development kit without some sort of process, can I? Lets not forget the likely hugely inflated cost of it. Can I register now to some site and download the console development tools? No approval process? Downloading Unity will not give me all I need to develop on the PS4. Lets not ignore the fact that many people may not want to use Unreal, Unity, Cryengine or any other engine and development toolset. What if I want to create my own?
well, you can't develop a console game without a PC either
the difference is with PCs you develop and deploy on the same hardware and software platform, both of which are widely available to anyone with a few hundred bucks to spend. that's not the case with any console.
Damigos
Member
Yes, it is. That is one of the many things i like about that console.
MMO? Check
Indies? Check
Exlcusives? Check
AAA ? Check
Best version of multi plats? Check
Cheap ? Check
What i would really like it to have though is mods. The one things that console owners never had, and probably never will..
Also, backwards compatibility
MMO? Check
Indies? Check
Exlcusives? Check
AAA ? Check
Best version of multi plats? Check
Cheap ? Check
What i would really like it to have though is mods. The one things that console owners never had, and probably never will..
Also, backwards compatibility
between the indies, aaa, f2p, mmos, near-ideal third parties (pc gaming gets this one a lot of the time), first party titles and vita remote play the PS4 is by far the most versatile gaming ecosystem
yeah, this is the only case where pc gaming may win out - unless the game is local co op focused or is better played on a tv
yeah, this is the only case where pc gaming may win out - unless the game is local co op focused or is better played on a tv
No, but how is that relevant? If you're going for 'out of the box' features, then all you can do with PS4 or PC is turn the damn thing on. The select what other programs you'd like. As PC is an open platform, there's a lot more out there.
gothamghost
Member
That is debatable.
Damigos
Member
I meant for console multiplats..my bad
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Okay, but what do you have to fucking do to make the Shield stream over the internet? Do you apply some mod patch to Nvidia's software or something? That's all I'm asking. I don't know what you have to do to make the Shield do that. It could be easy, or it could be complex. I know the Vita does it with zero effort from me.
This is quite a losing argument saying that vita has the best streaming service if the Shield and Steam and other services can do a better job with less latency and arguing it's not 'better' because of the device ergonomics or pricing. Also you want streaming over the internet? please tell me your joking.
gothamghost
Member
Are you arguing that if the PS4 can stream to the Vita and the PC can't then the PC is less versatile than the PS4?
with the exception of super high end pc's graphics and certain genres like RTS, it is
That's fine, however it's not that steep a hurdle. The process to becoming a licensed developer is fairly simple and painless. The biggest hurdles are showing some working code and having a business license (which you'll need anyway if you plan on bringing in profits from software sales).
Yes, you have to buy the hardware, and yes it costs a couple thousand dollars, however that's the price of business. If you want to make a free web app, go for it. It will probably play on the console's web browser.
It's also not as clear cut black and white as you're making it out to be. You can release your game for free on your free website and ask for donations. Prepare for 0% of anyone anywhere to care, though. If you want any exposure, it will require some hoops be jumped through, be it Steam's or Nintendo's or Sony's or even just a message board's as you drum up interest. And to do that, yes, you will have to show something, be it a business plan, working code, a business license, a concept trailer, a demo, or whatnot.
Mr. Poolman
Member
A closed platform will never ever be as versatile as an open platform.
You might argue that the PS4 is getting more Indy support usually restricted to PC, but to say "as versatile as a PC" is quite an exaggeration.
Oh for the love of Odin...
You might argue that the PS4 is getting more Indy support usually restricted to PC, but to say "as versatile as a PC" is quite an exaggeration.
Oh for the love of Odin...
TangoAlphaLima
Member
I'm not joking. I'm roughly 6 months to a year away from getting Google Fiber in my home.
No, not that specifically. Just stating that the best remote play combo going seems to be PS4 + Vita.
Care to elaborate on what bestows the PS4 with a greater versatility than the PC or other platforms?
hemtae
Member
I'm not seeing it. Ignoring all the non-gaming stuff that the PS4 can't do, PC gets more games, more options in the games, and more control methods to use in the games.