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[Revolver]

Scores from the Holiday issue...

Killzone - 9.5
NFSU 2 - 8.0
LotR: The Third Age - 7.0
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - 7.0
Outlaw Golf 2 - 7.0
Goldeneye: Rogue Agent - 6.5
Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War - 9.5
The Urbz - 8.0
Karaoke Revolution Vol. 3 - 8.5
X-Men Legends - 7.5
Vietcong: Purple Haze - 5.0
Neo Contra - 6.5
Capcom Fighting Evolution - 7.0
Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude - 7.0
Tak 2: Staff of Dreams - 6.5
King Arthur - 3.5
EyeToy: AntiGrav - 7.0
Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promathia - 7.5
Alien Hominid - 5.0
NCAA March Madness 2005 - 8.5
Kuon - 7.5
Get on da Mic - 7.0
Fight Club - 4.0
Ape Escape: Pumped and Primed - 6.0
BloodRayne 2 - 7.5
Gretsky NHL 2005 - 7.0
Spyro: A Hero's Tail - 6.5
SpongeBob Squarepants Movie - 6.0
The Bard's Tale - 8.0
Dukes of Hazzard: Return of the General Lee - 5.5
Samurai Warriors: Extreme Legends - 8.0
Guilty Gear Isuka - 7.5
Taiko Drum Master - 7.0
Shark Tale - 6.5
Crash 'n Burn - 6.5

Sorry if old. I didn't see the scores anywhere...

 

[Wario64]

Welcome

 

[SantaC]

Goldeneye:RA seems to be worse than I first thought.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

If even Killzone got a 9.5 the new Golden eye must REALLY suck.

 

[COCKLES]

Never underesmimate the power of a brown envelope!

 

[Mrbob]

From what I've read Killzone online is supposed to be halfway decent.

I do want to try this game out because it isn't a FPS based on WW2. So for that very reason it gets props. But with all the complaints about single player shoddy AI I'll wait until it becomes Greatest Hits.

Also, does anyone else think the Killzone grunts look eerily similar to the Combine grunts of HL2?

 

[COCKLES]

From what I've read Killzone online is supposed to be halfway decent.

I do want to try this game out because it isn't a FPS based on WW2. So for that very reason it gets props. But with all the complaints about single player shoddy AI I'll wait until it becomes Greatest Hits.

Also, does anyone else think the Killzone grunts look eerily similar to the Combine grunts of HL2?

That's probably HL2's biggest failing. Combine are regulation-visor-goggle baddies we've all seen before....most noticebly in Blood 2 on the PC.

 

[Lord Error]

Combine grunts have different looking masks though. They don't look that much alike.

Anyways, I finally got a chance to play the final version of Killzone at my friend's place last night, and frankly, it wasn't that bad. I guess it helps when you have the proper intro and story to pull you in some more, presentation is really nice, and so are the graphics (in some ways at least) and music. From what I've played, I'd give it 8 at most, but keep in mind that I really value atmosphere in this game more than anything else, and even that atmosphere is not quite perfect due to some nagging technical issues. AI is as shoddy as in the demo, and there's really no fun to be had with it, but again, shooting them down feels good because weapons are pretty good. It would of course be much better if you felt any sense of accomplishment that you outsmarted them, but that's probably never going to happen from what I've seen.

I might get it when it drops down to $20 because there are some nice things about it, but then again I thought the same about Getaway, and eventually just said 'screw it, I'm not buying this'.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Good post, Marconelly.

That about sums it up, but as someone who has given this game more than it's fair share of time, I don't understand how any game reviewer could possibly rate it that high. It's almost a situation on par with Driv3r. It's fun online. As there aren't that many great games to play online with PS2, perhaps that drives it's fortunes with console specific reviewers. However...though it had great aspirations with graphic design etc. it is so undercut by poor technological issues, I can't imagine someone with any experience with shooters rating this game anywhere above average.

 

[Lord Error]

I don't even have much experience with shooters, but there are obvious flaws in the game that just prevent it from getting a score in that range... And I'm not talking about framerate, which one could live with - I'm talking about bad AI, or just some stupid stuff like how fallen helghast guys look like garbage bags / black blobs while they are laying on the ground until you get *really* close to them when their blob model gets replaced with something that actually looks like human. That's just idiotic, and could have been fixed easily with some more clever low poly modelling. Or how they all keep sprouting same phrases over and over, or play the same screams when they die... OK, you don't have much memory to store those samples, but for the love of God, then just make the damn idiots silent. Or come up with some backstory that their voice mutated because of radiation and make some random vocal grunting noise generator that would be their voice.

It's just too bad, as there are things in the game that are not even technologically limited, just poorly thought thru or executed, and they are dragging some wonderful ambiance and otherwise great atmosphere and shooting feel down.

I can see Killzone 3 being a pretty awesome PS3 game, though, as the team definitely has some potential that is right now unfocussed and with too much ambition perhaps.

Oh, and there's certainly big disparity between the quality of intro animation (which looks gob-smackingly awesome) and the between level cinemas (which are average in every sense of the word). I was asking TTP about this, and he thinks the intro animation was outsourced. Next time guys, outsource every cinema, or just try a lot harder...

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

It's fun online. As there aren't that many great games to play online with PS2...

Bzzzt! Try again.

It appears "Great on-line games" is becoming the next highly specious term to be bandied about, alongside "hardcore".

The PS2 has plenty of enjoyable, I'll also stress esoteric, on-line titles. The problem is Socom 2 is the glory hog.

Twisted Metal Black: Online is f'ing awesome.

Amplitude was awesome, but I suck at it.

Tony Hawk, always great on-line. Possibly the most rewarding as it comes close to the old arcade experience where you can learn new trick lines and techniques from other players across the country.

Socom 2 could even be categorized as a lot of fun, even though I f'ing hate it. I hate the game, yet I own it and have 100+ hours of playtime. Christ, it's the most horrible grudgingly conceding your own values game out there. In theory aspects of it are fun, but I'll be damned if the execution and other niggling aspects don't infuriate me. Namely, most of the people playing Socom 2 should be playing Halo or Killzone deathmatch because they don't know how to function as a team.

Perhaps the biggest flaw in Sony's on-line gaming scheme is the same as it's offline business. It's library is far too diverse and awesome for there to be a single - OMG! I MUST PLAY THIS GAME OR DIE! title to polarize the masses.

I'm just going to have to live with the fact that the games I play aren't very popular, so if they make on-line versions of them, the audience still isn't going to be as massive as that bastard Socom 2. >:|

Killzone sure is pretty though. I'd love to see graphics like Killzone implemented in Socom 3 if they did it on the PS2. Although I wonder if Killzone's visuals are a direct result of the limited environmental interaction. Which is a sacrifice I'm not willing to make in Socom. I want more environmental interaction, less god awful PC developer cum console developer controls, and a solid graphics engine. Zipper Interactive needs the PS3 just to compensate for their rubbish game making skills. :X

I also have to say that the guns in Killzone lack stopping power. Even accounting for my rubbish aim, the weapons in Killzone lean on the shoot 3/4 of your ammo into an enemy before putting him down. It would be nice if they issued a patch in which the guns were a bit more effective instead of being noisy Nerf cannons.

 

[Lord Error]

Amplitude and R&C3 are really highly enjoyable online games on PS2. Amplitude may not be everyone's bag of chips, but I think R&C3 could be enjoyed by just about everyone. It's highly polished (technically and gamplay) online experience.

Guns in KZ seemed pretty effective to me. You have to aim carefuly, and to fire in short bursts, much like you'd expect real weapons to be.

I completely agree about Zipper guys being completely inept in the visual department, btw. Socom is one of the worst looking PS2 games.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I didn't find TMB all that fun.

Amplitude and SSX3 are indeed awesome...but since no one is ever online playing either one in a public game...they really don't qualify in my mind. That's the main problem...if it's not Tony Hawk or Socom or a Sports game...good luck finding anyone to play. Especially since there's no universal friends list across games, etc. It totally hamstrings the PS2 online experience. It's free and I've enjoyed it, but it's a hassle to get in some good online gaming so I think you're definitely overrating the experience. I'm not here to dog it, thank god what's there is there, but I'm not going to give the impression that it's something it's not.

I have 160 hours in Socom 2 so I've definitely succumbed to it's charms as well. Part of the reason being that it's the only game online with PS2 (besides something like FFXI) to exhibit a robust amount of online features. Maybe Tony Hawk qualifies for that as well, I'll admit the series has moved further and further from my interest.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Guns in KZ seemed pretty effective to me. You have to aim carefuly, and to fire in short bursts, much like you'd expect real weapons to be.

I like the weapons in KZ, but the amount of hits you need is sometimes inconsistent with enemies. Sometimes head shots are deadly effective, sometimes not. Anyhow, it's worth experiencing and I'm glad I played it, but I don't get the 9's some media are handing out.

I really need to play R&C3 online, it seems that it's another stellar online title for the system.

 

[Lord Error]

I really need to play R&C3 online, it seems that it's another stellar online title for the system.

The best one, IMO.

I'm basing my judgement off the beta testing btw, that only had two maps, and it's been greatly improved in the final game. However beta test didn't have any cheaters, so I'm not sure if the experience is ruined any by them now.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I think R&C3 could be enjoyed by just about everyone.

What's funny is I rented both Killzone and R&C3 to test the on-line play, and I f'ing loathe R&C3 on-line. It's like an FPS crossed with a platformer with all the worst elements of both. And lemme tell you, if you hate bunny hopping in FPS games; you're going to set your PS2 on fire with R&C3.

At least I'm not compelled to run out and buy R&C3 for the on-line experience now. I'll do as planned and wait for the Greatest Hits price drop, pick it up and enjoy the single player experience.

You have to aim carefuly, and to fire in short bursts, much like you'd expect real weapons to be.

I really have no basis for comparison other than Socom 2, as I have no expectations for real firearms due to a total lack of interest in ever owning / using one.

I just assume Socom 2 has reasonably good damage modelling and such. Although experience with the game gives me hints otherwise, y'know like shotguns (Seal side) sucking total balls and such. I don't care who you are, if I shoot you in the gut with a shotgun I expect you to die.

I didn't find TMB all that fun.

Different strokes I guess. For my tastes, TMB is more of what I expect from console on-line gaming. The current sorts of isht available on consoles is mostly PC style stuff, and if I wanted that garbage - duh - I'd buy a gaming PC.

As much as I hate DOA, I'd much rather see that be a more prevalent on-line title for the Xbox as that's more indicative of the stuff I want in on-line console gaming. As is, it's Socom 2 and Halo 2 and the status quo remains safely perched with their crappy console versions of PC style games with inappropriate control schemes.

Especially since there's no universal friends list across games, etc.

I don't understand this argument.

So there's no universal friends list? Currently I own games that my friends don't, and vice versa. All a universal friends list allows is for me to know more people aren't playing the game on-line. What's the point of that?

It's free and I've enjoyed it, but it's a hassle to get in some good online gaming so I think you're definitely overrating the experience.

Don't understand this one much either. Outside of the obvious, there aren't many people playing the games I want to play; I've had a good time on-line with my PS2 and I can also say I had a good time on-line with the DC when the only game I played was PSO.

I mean, yeah there is stuff that pisses me off in general about on-line gaming; ADD afflicted players, lack of communication and team work, and just general nonsense that isn't related to me winning the game. However I don't remember any of that crap when I think about the fun I've had playing on-line.

I mean, if nobody's on-line. I just log off. I don't sit there in the dark hoping someone will join my game.

 

[Lord Error]

What's funny is I rented both Killzone and R&C3 to test the on-line play, and I f'ing loathe R&C3 on-line. It's like an FPS crossed with a platformer with all the worst elements of both.

Yeah, I've read some negative impressions from some people, but I guess I just don't see it that way. I hope you made sure to switch to a dual stick strafe control mode btw, (that works like the controls in Socom for example)

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I tried third person and first person controls. Being a rental, the Hollywood Video print-out instructions on the back of the case are pretty slim. At least they give you the print-out, unlike another chain that will remain anonymous.

I'll probably fart around with it in a year when it goes Greatest Hits again. Right now I've got similar complaints to Socom 2, the game play experience really isn't something I want, there's a severe lack of players. On a Saturday night Killzone had 500 versus the 100 or so on R&C3, which both pale in comparison to that hateful beast Socom 2.

Then the problem with a shortage of players is exacerbated by morons joining our Capture the Flag room and playing it Deathmatch style. WTF? Can you people not f'ing read? Just another reason for more third world countries to want to evaporate our ignorant asses. :X

I'm really hoping Front Mission Online is something special since From Software is too busy developing Weapons of Mass Destruction on the Xbox to release an Armored Core game with on-line play. I mean, if I've got to play something that's Deathmatch style, at the very least the theme and presentation can be appealing.

I also hope Sony Online Entertainment doesn't continue it's tradition of screwing the pooch with Champions: Return to Arms. I was really looking forward to Snowblind's second PS2 game w/ on-line play - wow; and those morons f'ed it all up. =_=;

 

[Defensor]

Killzone is great online. The one thing I don't like about it though is that once a match is over and everyone is in the lobby, you cannnot restart a match. So, everyone has to leave the room and someone has to make another game to join.

Marconelly, you SOCOM hater! You should try playing a game with us some time(whenever we get another SOCOM II reunion going :lol) since the game is only $20. Musashi, Gunstar, Wario, The Take Out Bandit, myself, and the rest of the ol' GAF SOCOM II clan had alot of fun for almost 8 months before we sort of stopped playing. We even tried getting TTP and even kaching to play with us. SOCOM II > SOCOM. The Take Out Bandit, what happened to your GAF East Coast clan? SOCOM II still brings in the 30,000 players a night while Killzone brings in around 900 only.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

The Take Out Bandit, what happened to your GAF East Coast clan? SOCOM II still brings in the 30,000 players a night while Killzone brings in around 900 only.

Oh, that never happened. I mean, I started it, but my combined apathy for the game with the general public outpouring of hatred towards me within the community surely didn't help the fledgling clan.

I'm just not much of one for scheduling games in advance and all that. The worst cases for me were getting on, then constantly being nagged by people on my friends list and whatnot; "Dude! Join my game. Dude! This room. Dude! Dude!"

I'm not ignoring you. I'm just shooting SEALS / terrorists in the face. Please leave a message after the gunshot.

If someone wants to start up a GAF East clan, I think it would still be a good idea. I just don't know if I'll be participating as all my bitching in this thread puts a fine point on the fact that my love / hate relationship with Socom 2 is leaning more towards hate these days.

And then there's that motherf'ing killing machine Wario64. Jesus man, I don't know what he's on or how he does it, but he's a clan unto himself.

 

[Agent X]

I really need to play R&C3 online, it seems that it's another stellar online title for the system.

Yes, it's another stellar online title, and yes, you need to play it.

Different strokes I guess. For my tastes, TMB is more of what I expect from console on-line gaming. The current sorts of isht available on consoles is mostly PC style stuff, and if I wanted that garbage - duh - I'd buy a gaming PC.

Twisted Metal: Black Online is a really fun game, although I admit I haven't played it much in the last couple of months (pretty much since Burnout 3 came out). Although the core game itself is solid, the overall online experience suffers somewhat compared to more recent titles. This is due to the fact that TM:BO was one of the early PS2 online games. It doesn't have a buddy list, it doesn't have voice chat--hell, it doesn't even have keyboard chat unless you're in the game setup screen, and only if you happen to know the secret code and input it. If TM:BO was a 2004 game instead of a 2002 game, then we'd probably have more of these luxuries.

One thing that TM:BO did right that some games still get wrong was the way it handles the servers and whether users drop. Even if the host quits, the game automatically assigns host privileges to another user. That way, the game can continue to its natural conclusion, the same group of people can continue to play together, and the new host can change game options if he wants.

So there's no universal friends list? Currently I own games that my friends don't, and vice versa. All a universal friends list allows is for me to know more people aren't playing the game on-line. What's the point of that?

This is probably the only major piece of the X-Box Live puzzle that's still missing from PS2 online play. Most PS2 games now have a buddy list, which is good; the next step is to integrate it into some sort of "instant messenger," where the buddy list is available across multiple games, and you can leave a message for your friend (in another game) to join you in your game of choice.

It should be easy to implement such a thing on PS2, for future games at least (currently available games don't allow for such a feature). You could even do it for free, without a subscription fee (the same way most instant messaging programs work). I don't know if you'll see it on PS2, since it's generally accepted that we're over the peak for this generation. You might see something like this on PSP and/or PS3, though.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Although the core game itself is solid, the overall online experience suffers somewhat compared to more recent titles.

Oh, I don't disagree that TMB:O is barebones. I get the feeling the sequel we want may not be released until the PS3 launches. Although I've read total pipedream rumors that Incognito is planning / working on a War of the Monsters sequel for the PS3 launch.

I'd much prefer WotM2 over the next Twisted Metal, but both are welcome in my library eventually. ^_^

 

[Agent X]

Oh, I don't disagree that TMB:O is barebones. I get the feeling the sequel we want may not be released until the PS3 launches.

That's funny...I get the feeling the sequel we want might be coming to the PSP first.

Although I've read total pipedream rumors that Incognito is planning / working on a War of the Monsters sequel for the PS3 launch.

Wow, that would be something sweet. Could you imagine romping through a highly detailed city the size of...oh, say Vice City, but with tons more detail...and unleashing your destructive powers online against several other players? Incog, make it happen!

I'd much prefer WotM2 over the next Twisted Metal, but both are welcome in my library eventually. ^_^

Yes, both would be welcome!

 

[Axsider]

Let's post some reviews of german mags:
PLAYPlaystation: 89%
PlayZone: 90%
VGA: 1- (A-)
Official PlayStation Magazine: 89%

Like it or not: IT IS A VERY GOOD GAME ;-)

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I think all it proves is that German/Dutch gamesites and media have very very low standards. It's not a matter of wanting the game to fail, I bought the damn thing. Apparently there are just a bunch of reviewers who are willing to look past the obvious flaws.

 

[GermanOfficer]

I think all it proves is that German/Dutch gamesites and media have very very low standards. It's not a matter of wanting the game to fail, I bought the damn thing. Apparently there are just a bunch of reviewers who are willing to look past the obvious flaws.

The only worthy German gaming mag is the Gamefront. Period.