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[mrklaw]

I love my PSP. I love the games on it. I love the screen. Its all gorgeous. But the graphics in games aren't really that good.

Fantastic for a handheld - yes. But not really anywhere near PS2 level. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I'm sure it'll improve a lot with the next wave of games, and when Sony lift the speed cap. I just wanted to bring some calm to the hyperbole.

I liked RR a lot, but the textures are pretty lowres.
I was looking forward to wipeout after comments on the graphics, but they are fairly dull, there are very few textures around (lots of gourad shading in the distance), and not that great.
Strangely, I find minna no golf one of the best graphically. Perhaps its the use of more static graphics that shows the screen off more?

With it having almost the same memory levels as PS2, it should be capable of similar results. I guess if Sony changed the specs regarding memory at the last minute, this won't show up properly in games until the fall.

The thing that PSP has brought to handhelds IMO is a different style of game. Console level depth/production values, which seems to nicely fill a gap in what Gameboy has traditionally offered. I never thought console games would work in a portable environment, but they do.

 

[warhead]

Wait about 2 years and we'll discuss this subject again.

 

[Docpan]

? You haven't played Wipeout Pure then.

 

[Amir0x]

This is the most unnecessary thread of all time.

Yes, the PSP graphics are fantastic.
Yes, they blow any comparable handheld right out of the fucking water.
Yes, they will impress anyone who isn't batshit insane.
No, they are not AT PS2 level yet, but will be at some point.

Discussing ended, thread balooned, etc.

 

[FightyF]

Your last paragraph really sums up why I was and still am excited for it.

As far as your earlier points go...I noticed all of that in the earlier game screens. Because of the lower resolution, you'll notice a lot more extreme LOD differences, and low res textures, and the lack of textures for things in the distance.

For some dumb reason everyone was expecting GT on the PSP to rival GT4...when in reality it's going to look completely different from a technical POV, with the same art basically.

But it made some certain technological jumps that the handheld console market needed.

 

[drohne]

i think they compare pretty well to ps2 launch games. though i really wish wipeout was 60 fps. i don't like this business about underclocking the system. i don't care about battery life. i do care about graphics.

 

[Amir0x]

i think they compare pretty well to ps2 launch games. though i really wish wipeout was 60 fps. i don't like this business about underclocking the system. i don't care about battery life. i do care about graphics.

You have to make SOME concessions. I do care about battery life when it starts averaging less than 4 hours.

 

[FightyF]

It's interesting...since it may mean as battery technology advances, games will look better and better on the PSP.

 

[Andvary]

...
Fantastic for a handheld - yes.

But.. but....
nevermind.

 

[Koshiro]

? You haven't played Wipeout Pure then.

meet

I was looking forward to wipeout after comments on the graphics, but they are fairly dull, there are very few textures around (lots of gourad shading in the distance), and not that great.

Don't make your knee-jerk reaction to a PSP critisism thread so obvious next time.

 

[mrklaw]

Did you not read the bits where I say I love my PSP?

I'm just trying to bring some context to people calling it a portable PS2 and a 'this gen' console. Its not - at least yet - but it is still great.

And Amir0x - the 'dull' comment from the US launch thread. It does get better, but the textures aren't always very vibrant. I don't know if thats a colour depth thing, or a style thing. Again, its still great, and zone does surprisingly well for some tracks they haven't bothered to texture

Don't make your knee-jerk reaction to a PSP critisism thread so obvious next time

Don't make your knee-jerk reaction to a post of mine out of context. I've been very active in the original PSP launch thread, and the video encoding blah blah. Its a great bit of kit and worth every penny I spent on it. That doesn't forbid me from posting my opinion. I got into the game more last night and like it a lot. But the first track you play just looks dull to me.

 

[Jonnyram]

Re: Wipeout's graphics.
I too am not blown away by either the textures or the framerate.
The effects and draw distance are decent though.

 

[Fafalada]

I liked RR a lot, but the textures are pretty lowres.

They are largely the same res as they were in R5 though. 1st gen PSP games in general targeted (and met) performance of 1st gen PS2 games (mainly referring to polygon and texture budgets here).
It's another matter if they'll ever compare to PS2 5years down the line, but the software certainly has room left to grow (and I don't mean just in clock speed variations).

 

[aoi tsuki]

The graphics were about what i expected, although some of the effects in Wipeout Pure (bloom lighting and particle effects) were a bit more than what i expected. i really wish there was a replay mode.

What did disappoint me a bit was the screen. It's big, with vibrant colors, and generally looks great. But it's not what some people on GAF hyped it up to be. i don't know who it was (IGN?), But i seem to remember someone saying it was like holding an HDTV in your hands. Right... There's some noticeable ghosting and the size of the screen at it's resolution makes games look pixellated.

My Clie has a 480x320 resolution and is only a little larger than a business card. The color is crap compared to the PSP screen, but the sharper Clie screen is almost like going from PSP to GBA. Similarly, i've seen a few Pocket PCs with displays as vibrant as the PSP screen. Simply put, if you've seen enough small LCD screens, the PSP screen isn't as breathtaking, though what's on the screen is another story.

Overall, i'm extremely glad i bought my PSP, much moreso than my DS. i can't stop playing Wipeout and Lumines - ask my left thumb that's still recovering. But some of the hype around the screen was extreme.

 

[masud]

Yeah the graphics kind of let me down after all the "PS2 level" talk on GAF. They are nice though, about what I'd expect from a 250 dollar handheld.

 

[captainbiotch]

PS2 level graphics isn't really something to brag about anyway. But it definately beats mutated n64/PS1 graphics

 

[Foobar]

Most of the games I've seen thus far look Dreamcasty. PSP seems like a low-end PS2, DS a high-end N64, nothing really mindblowing either way. Both will get better in time, but no, PSP does not equal PS2 quality just yet. It could change, might not, just wait and see.

Still, I think its funny Sony gamers are suddenly all about the graphics.

"Impressive for a handheld" is such an odd statement, no matter how I look at it, it sounds somewhat insulting. Like, "Aww, don't fret PSP, you'll be like a PS2 someday."

 

[Chittagong]

I've heard an estimate of RR being around 0.5 million polygon. Dunno the reason for this. There could be many:

- Sony limiting clock speed as alleged
- In lack of final silicon, Namco taking safe + sure route to ensure game will make launch
- Some bottleneck in the system we don't know of

My guess is that the second option is closest to reality. If so, I'd expect Fall 2005 titles to look a lot better. But if it's the clockspeed or bottleneck, things don't look too good - that performance will be outdone very soon.

 

[Daigoro]

Don't make your knee-jerk reaction to a post of mine out of context.

maybe you want to read his post again?

 

[Koshiro]

maybe you want to read his post again?

^

 

[Jonnyram]

What did disappoint me a bit was the screen. It's big, with vibrant colors, and generally looks great. But it's not what some people on GAF hyped it up to be. i don't know who it was (IGN?), But i seem to remember someone saying it was like holding an HDTV in your hands. Right... There's some noticeable ghosting and the size of the screen at it's resolution makes games look pixellated.

The size and brightness of the screen are great. But one problem I have playing Wipeout is I hold the PSP like a retard, so when I'm using airbrakes on corners, I tend to change the angle of the PSP. In Zone mode, I've ended up playing while looking at 30 degrees sometimes... I hope I can improve this aspect of my playstyle

 

[Porridge]

Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing. People are goin' bonkers over barely 1st generation PS2 graphics and that's supposed to take the handheld market out of the "gaming ghetto"? Yes, it's unusual to see such graphics on a system, but still . If the thing had more power under its hood than PS2, I'd shut up. That, I'd consider, to be revolutionary

 

[kevm3]

Well these are also FIRST generation PSP graphics as well. Look at how much the PS2 progressed from where it started.

 

[cvxfreak]

I'm urged to create a thread that's called "DS graphics aren't *that* bad". :lol

 

[MrAngryFace]

this thread is complete bullshit. I swear the next portable could come from Gods ass and you guys would still find shit to bitch about.

 

[Folder]

maybe you want to read his post again?

LOL!
Go Go GAF!

 

[nubbe]

At the end of the day a handheld is still a handheld… you'll see

 

[mrklaw]

maybe you want to read his post again?

OK. so he's telling *Docpan* not to knee-Jerk?

Well to me thats difficult to read as the comment is directly below my quote.

Anyway, that'll teach me to read stuff more carefully

 

[Jonnyram]

this thread is complete bullshit. I swear the next portable could come from Gods ass and you guys would still find shit to bitch about.

Buddha's ass would make a better portable.

 

[Daigoro]

yup. he was calling out doc for trolling in your thread when he obviously didnty read it well, if at all.

 

[mrklaw]

this thread is complete bullshit. I swear the next portable could come from Gods ass and you guys would still find shit to bitch about.

Woo - a negative post from MAF - I am now complete.

The size and brightness of the screen are great. But one problem I have playing Wipeout is I hold the PSP like a retard, so when I'm using airbrakes on corners, I tend to change the angle of the PSP. In Zone mode, I've ended up playing while looking at 30 degrees sometimes... I hope I can improve this aspect of my playstyle

If you set the controls to one airbrake, you can use the right shoulder button and steer with the nub. It gives you a nice 'handbrake' effect and is much easier to hold.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Im afraid only a banning would make you complete.

 

[Kseutron]

RR V would look better than RR PSP on the psp screen

I launched both games a few weeks ago to compare, and yes, RR V shows a lot of aliasing but it also puts much more polygons on screen

 

[Lyte Edge]

He's right. PSP graphics aren't "*that* good." They're GREAT.

It depends on how you look at it, really. Clearly the system is leaps and bounds ahead of every other portable system out there visually. Ridge Racers looks better overall than Ridge Racer V did. Minna No Golf looks like the PS2 version. Twisted Metal Head-On is very close to Twisted Metal Black. But then Dynasty Warriors is nothing like its console counterparts, and Metal Gear Ac!d isn't even Metal Gear Solid 2 quality.

But really, it's hard to bitch when these games are still the best-looking for a portable, and plus, the system is only FOUR MONTHS OLD. Give it a while; developers will learn new tricks to make the games look even better.

 

[Fafalada]

My Clie has a 480x320 resolution and is only a little larger than a business card. The color is crap compared to the PSP screen, but the sharper Clie screen is almost like going from PSP to GBA.

14" monitor will clearly look sharper at same res then 25" too, but I don't think you'll find many people thinking that's a "good" thing.

Could definately do without the ghosting though, but in my defense, when I hyped the screen on here it still had faster response times.

I've heard an estimate of RR being around 0.5 million polygon.

Mind giving a hint where you got that estimate from?
Namely, that's just Way low - you can get more out of the machine without really trying.
And RR also seems to stand rather well against R5 polygonwise (less car detail, but longer view distance and rendering 3 camera views vs 1 in R5)...

RR V would look better than RR PSP on the psp screen

Maybe... but this is a two way thing - I ran RR PSP on my Samsung 927Df and it also looks nicer then R5 there. Progressive scan helps of course...

 

[Porridge]

this thread is complete bullshit. I swear the next portable could come from Gods ass and you guys would still find shit to bitch about.

I would want that portable in colors other than green, if that's possible.

PSP is worthless until the prices for both hardware and software are reasonable. That's that. You just don't charge $50 for a portable game, I don't care how "on par" any of the titles are with console games, a portable video game can never be on par with any console experience.

 

[TTP]

(less car detail, but longer view distance and rendering 3 camera views vs 1 in R5)...

3 camea views? Aren't they just 2 (first and third person)?

 

[ourumov]

Well, I was amazed at first with Ridge Racers...Specially in some of stages where the road is so crisp that it seems it has bump-mapping applied to it. However, the lowres reflections, the lack of geometry and the softer visuals made me prefer RRV soon. Not going to argue again with people in these forums about how much RRV graphics rock, because 99% of them are judging this game based on IGN's captures and not on gameplay impressions (most people here doesn't own RRV). But the fact is that RRV looks awesome when played on a CRT with a scart RGB cable (composite gives an horrible picture on PS2 (on GC and DC it was fairly good)) and that its sharpness makes it an awesome visual experience.
I still want to see the level of geometry RRV showcased coupled with awesome effects and texturing...And that would be the definite game when it comes to RR graphics. RRV is still the only game that has made me believe I was INSIDE a city. As Faf says there were problems with the distance drawing...Sometimes there is popping that looks very bad. In the top of my mind you can see it in the beach track (the 90º turn that makes into a jump and then integrates to the old RR beach track) when looking at the "light". There is another popping moment in Above the City...When you go down the "monorail" there is a turn to the left and then a turn to the right...Then, when looking at the background you can see the building appearing all of a sudden.


Anyways, returning to the main subject of this thread, I have to say that after the initial shock, PSP's graphics aren't that great. People here was a bit skeptical about PSP graphical capabilities but if you were expecting this...well, then you have a problem. A problem because there are certain titles that look worse than some of we expected: Ape Escape (don't missunderstood me because I think the game rocks despite the graphics doesn't), Metal Gear Ac!d (horrible low res textures coupled with an horrible dithering) or just Tales of Eternia (which in certain areas looks very dull). That doesn't stop other titles to look awesome: RR, Popolocrois (despite the ghosting problems), Vampire Chronicle...

In my opinion, the first batch of games look like crap when compared to the games we will see at the end of the next year. It's not a matter of developers mastering the system but the fact that the system has enough power to look much better. Anyways, those graphics (crap or not) are enough for me...What I was desiring since the GB days was decent sound and PSP has been the first one to brough decent sound to my ears (through headphones of course).

 

[soundwave05]

I felt the same too initially. The graphics weren't quite even Dreamcast level IMO, more like a '98 era PC video card.

But playing more of Ridge Racer has convinced me that the system already is pumping out graphics on par with the DC right now (some of the later tracks are awesome). I haven't played WipeOut yet, but that's getting a lot of praise too.

Its not bad for a system with a performance cap put on it (I hope we get higher capacity batteries soon). I think in a year, PSP will be able to look overall like higher end DC stuff/approaching solid looking PS2 software.

Games like Gran Turismo I think will raise the bar for sure.

 

[number386]

The graphics currently are not mindblowing, bearing in mind they are first gen and are limited the clock speed of 200mhz graphics should get better with time. Although power is not the end all to games, my favorite PSP game by far is Lumines a game that could be done on GBA with minor sacrifices. I would put the games currently out in the midpoint between ps1, and ps2 power. That being said the screen picks up a lot of slack, factoring in the 4 inch screen the resolution of 480x272 is staggering. Per ratio it is the equivalent to high definition gaming, the rival of 1024x768 in PC games, and easily destroying the resolution of standard TV 640x480. In a sense for some of you this is your first taste of High Definition gaming, enjoy!!!

 

[Fafalada]

3 camea views? Aren't they just 2 (first and third person)?

I didn't mean playable cameras - I meant simultaneous camera views.
Every 1/60th of a second,
RR renders Frontview, Backview, and reflection view.
R5 renders only Frontview.

 

[Izzy]

As good as PSP games currently look, keep in mind:

It was confirmed in last week's Edge magazine, with Ridge Racers' associate producer Hideo Teramoto, that Ridge Racers was running underclocked and that future Namco titles will be using the maximum 333 MHz speed.

 

[ourumov]

R5 renders only Frontview.

I thought you could always change the viewing, pressing R2/L2... Anyways, The thing that makes me more curious about RRV is the size of the texture/polygon pool. Quite frankly there is a lot of texture repetition...

Edit: I see your point...There is no mirror in RR5...Hence when pressing R2 you continue rendering just one camera...

 

[TTP]

I didn't mean playable cameras - I meant simultaneous camera views.
Every 1/60th of a second,
RR renders Frontview, Backview, and reflection view.
R5 renders only Frontview.

Oh right. I forgot about the rear mirror

 

[Lazy8s]

There's handheld technology competitive to PSP that came out many months before it.

 

[ecliptic]

They look like PSone graphics to me.

 

[Amir0x]

They look like PSone graphics to me.

Yeah, they look like PSone graphics to me too! :lol :lol

 

[Companion Cube]

'I love my DS. I love the games on it. I love the screens. Its not gorgeous. But the graphics in games aren't really that bad.

Fantastic for a handheld - no. But not really anywhere near GBA level...'

It's only a matter of time..

 

[Infernal Monkey]

'I love my DS. I love the games on it. I love the screens. Its not gorgeous. But the graphics in games aren't really that bad.

Fantastic for a handheld - no. But not really anywhere near GBA level...'

It's only a matter of time..

What.

 

[Chittagong]

Mind giving a hint where you got that estimate from?
Namely, that's just Way low - you can get more out of the machine without really trying.
And RR also seems to stand rather well against R5 polygonwise (less car detail, but longer view distance and rendering 3 camera views vs 1 in R5)...

Maybe... but this is a two way thing - I ran RR PSP on my Samsung 927Df and it also looks nicer then R5 there. Progressive scan helps of course...

From a company doing IC that has to do with 3D acceleration ;-)

Seems very low to me too. I think they just didn't want to take any risks on the final configuration not being able to run the game. The art style more than makes up for it, it doesn't look bad at all, IMO.

How does the TV out in PSP work, btw? Signal straight from board amplified like Game Boy Capture or output though devkit? I saw PSPs attached to small plasma screens recently in GDC an it looks very nice.