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Putin Is Down With Polygamy

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Piecake

Member
The discussion was sparked by what appeared to be the forced marriage, in May, between a 17-year-old Chechen girl named Louisa Goilabiyeva and a 57-year-old police chief in her village, Nazhud Guchigov. The cop began flirting with the girl when she was 16 and then insisted on marriage even when she balked: She had a much more age-appropriate boyfriend. A Moscow reporter got wind of the story and wrote it up, saying that Guchigov had set up checkpoints around the village to prevent Louisa’s family from fleeing with the girl. Moreover, Guchigov, it turned out, was already married. The story kicked up a media firestorm in Moscow, and the wedding was quickly canceled.

So when Kadyrov stepped in for his friend Guchigov and said that Louisa’s family consented to her marriage to the man (whose age was quickly revised down to 47), the wedding was back on, and Moscow eagerly sang along to Kadyrov’s tune. The Kremlin’s ombudsman for children’s rights — who was behind Russia’s ban on American adoptions — said that Louisa’s marriage wasn’t premature. After all, he said, in the North Caucasus, puberty hits earlier, so 16 was a great age for marrying. “There are places where women shrivel up by 27,” he said.

He later apologized for his remarks, but it didn’t stop the wedding. The bride was taken from her family’s home by one of Kadyrov’s most notorious adjutants and taken to Grozny, where the union was celebrated with great pomp. Kadyrov attended the lavish reception, and Kremlin television provided breathless coverage, calling it the wedding of the century or, in some cases, the millennium. (Louisa, in the meantime, looked like she was about to faint.)

At the reception, Louisa had her picture taken with Guchigov’s first wife — though the photo was later removed from Instagram.

All of this sparked a debate in Russia: How could this happen in 2015, in a secular state that outlaws underage marriages, let alone forced ones, and polygamy? And yet, many veteran observers of Chechnya and the Muslim North Caucasus noted that polygamy was now commonplace in the region. People simply have religious weddings and do not register the unions with the authorities, making it impossible to calculate how many there are — or to prosecute people for them. The phenomenon, however, has been widely observed for years, ever since Kadyrov pushed Chechnya on the path of religious revival.

Louisa’s wedding, however, brought the debate to Moscow. Russian pollsters started running numbers on what Russians thought about allowing polygamy among Russian Muslims. (Most are against it, but a full third thought it wasn’t such a bad idea.) In May, nationalist pseudo-politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky said polygamy among Muslims already exists and so should be legalized; the following month, Kadyrov proposed legalizing polygamy in the North Caucasus — which, let me remind you, is a territory of the Russian Federation. Even the Russian Orthodox Church was ready to talk. Meanwhile, when a lone member of the parliament proposed a law criminalizing polygamy, the initiative was duly shot down by Yelena Mizulina, the parliamentarian who was among the most vocal supporters of Russia’s anti-gay laws and other “traditional values” initiatives. Criminalizing polygamy, Mizulina said, was “absurd.” The reason for polygamy, she argued was that “there are not enough men, the kind with whom women would want to start a family and have children.” Last week, Mizulina was promoted to the upper chamber of parliament.

Louisa’s wedding happened two months ago, but the debate in Moscow continues. On July 21, the Russian edition of Esquire printed a long article that tracked the stories of three Russian converts to Islam who had become second or third wives, and how they didn’t mind — but even liked — their status. Moreover, the women live not in the North Caucasus, but in the Russian capital.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/2...ya-christian-far-right-europe-ramzan-kadyrov/

So, more Russians are in favor of polygamy than they are of homosexuality? The Russian government is more tolerate of polygamy than homosexuality? I really have a hard time understanding this...
 

PSqueak

Banned
So, are there russians claiming that polygamy is a slippery slope that will lead to gay marriage? or are such fallacies exclusive to the USA?
 

Dennis

Banned
This story is depressing.

If the wedding is against her will, and the marriage is consummated presumably against her will, then this is rape of a 17-year old girl.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
The Russian government is more tolerate of polygamy than homosexuality? I really have a hard time understanding this...

There's a lot of places in the world where this would be true, like Africa.

Still.

russia-unveils-straight-pride-flag.jpg
 

PSqueak

Banned
What happens if one phrases it as a woman taking many men?

In a similar note, what is i called when there is a marriage between multiple partners, but like, i don't mean on guy and two wives (for example), but like, the wives are also married to each other, not just the guy, what im saying, in which all parties are equal.
 

cameron

Member
The photos and video of the wedding are depressing as fuck. All those people, excluding the bride, look like they are okay with it. Fuck that. Religious nutters.
 

Piecake

Member
There's a lot of places in the world where this would be true, like Africa.

Still.

russia-unveils-straight-pride-flag.jpg

Well, yea, but did you honestly expect that polygamy was more supported than homosexuality in Russia, an economically advanced European nation? It doesnt surprise me that polygamy is more tolerated and accepted in some societies in Africa and the middle east, but it did surprise me that was also true in Russia.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/2...ya-christian-far-right-europe-ramzan-kadyrov/

So, more Russians are in favor of polygamy than they are of homosexuality? The Russian government is more tolerate of polygamy than homosexuality? I really have a hard time understanding this...

Most of Southern Russia allowed for polygamy until the modern era. In addition, I'm sure that Putin is wondering if legalizing polygamy could help combat the plummeting Russian birthrate.
 

leroidys

Member
OK, really sad article, but this is about fuckhead Kadyrov not fuckhead Putin. Article title isn't just sensationalist, but totally inaccurate.
 

Piecake

Member
OK, really sad article, but this is about fuckhead Kadyrov not fuckhead Putin. Article title isn't just sensationalist, but totally inaccurate.

It is somewhat sensationalist, but not totally inaccurate. Putin's government did not object and actually consented to the wedding and their was debate in the Russian congress about legalizing polygamy. The person who spoke out in support of polygamy was then shortly promoted. Moreover, polygamy in the Russian capital is apparently tolerated as well
 

leroidys

Member
It is somewhat sensationalist, but not totally inaccurate. Putin's government did not object and actually consented to the wedding and their was debate in the Russian congress about legalizing polygamy. The person who spoke out in support of polygamy was then shortly promoted. Moreover, polygamy in the Russian capital is apparently tolerated as well

Kadyrov essentially rules his own fiefdom within Russia. Officially, Chechnya is actually a republic within the RF. What happens there is a reflection of Kadyrov's power, not Kremlin policy. I also don't see any evidence for the assertion that Mizulina was promoted solely for defending polygamy. It's overall an extremely poor effort from Foreign Policy.


EDIT: Not criticizing you for posting it, just to be clear.
 

Piecake

Member
Kadyrov essentially rules his own fiefdom within Russia. Officially, Chechnya is actually a republic within the RF. What happens there is a reflection of Kadyrov's power, not Kremlin policy. I also don't see any evidence for the assertion that Mizulina was promoted solely for defending polygamy. It's overall an extremely poor effort from Foreign Policy.


EDIT: Not criticizing you for posting it, just to be clear.

Then why have it air on Russian national television and call it the wedding of the century? If the Russian government simply had to accept what Kadyrov decided even though they disagree with it, why give it national coverage? Why go that far when Russia could have just as easily downplayed the whole thing?

I mean, I agree that Kadyrov did what he wanted to do and Russia couldnt do much about it, but then Russia did not have to debate the issue in their congress and air it on national television either. That really doesnt strike me as an anti-polygamy position by the Russian government.
 

leroidys

Member
Then why have it air on Russian national television and call it the wedding of the century? If the Russian government simply had to accept what Kadyrov decided even though they disagree with it, why give it national coverage? Why go that far when Russia could have just as easily downplayed the whole thing?

I mean, I agree that Kadyrov did what he wanted to do and Russia couldnt do much about it, but then Russia did not have to debate the issue in their congress and air it on national television either. That really doesnt strike me as an anti-polygamy position by the Russian government.

Media in Russia is filled with opportunistic, empty beings with absolutely no agenda other than gaining power and wealth. Anything said or done by the political elite in Russia is seized on and lauded by Russian media to try and impress them and stay in their good graces. To put forward that Russian media has any sort of agenda based on (fucked up) morality or policy goals is to give them too much credit.
 

Piecake

Member
Media in Russia is filled with opportunistic, empty beings with absolutely no agenda other than gaining power and wealth. Anything said or done by the political elite in Russia is seized on and lauded by Russian media to try and impress them and stay in their good graces. To put forward that Russian media has any sort of agenda based on (fucked up) morality or policy goals is to give them too much credit.

I am saying that Putin could have quietly canceled that broadcast if he really wanted to.
 

leroidys

Member
I am saying that Putin could have quietly canceled that broadcast if he really wanted to.

The kremlin doesn't exert hat kind of control over the media where every story is pre-screened, as far as I have read. They just make life miserable for anyone with opposing or sincere views, and appoint bootlickers to run their state media.
 

orochi91

Member
Putin probably sees Polygamy as the answer to Russia plummeting birth rates.

Interesting social experiment, to say the least.
 

Piecake

Member
The kremlin doesn't exert hat kind of control over the media where every story is pre-screened, as far as I have read. They just make life miserable for anyone with opposing or sincere views, and appoint bootlickers to run their state media.

Well, I am not going to pretend to know how the Russian state and media inter-relate, but I would agree that it seems very doubtful that the Russian state pre-screens every news story. However, this story seems like it has important political and social considerations. I could be wrong, but I think that is the type of story that would get run past the Russian state so the media doesnt get in trouble after airing it.
 

Replicant

Member
This story is depressing.

If the wedding is against her will, and the marriage is consummated presumably against her will, then this is rape of a 17-year old girl.

This. Fuck those cretins for forcing a girl against her will. The fact the country celebrated this is fucking vile.
 
OK, really sad article, but this is about fuckhead Kadyrov not fuckhead Putin. Article title isn't just sensationalist, but totally inaccurate.

Kadyrov essentially rules his own fiefdom within Russia. Officially, Chechnya is actually a republic within the RF. What happens there is a reflection of Kadyrov's power, not Kremlin policy. I also don't see any evidence for the assertion that Mizulina was promoted solely for defending polygamy. It's overall an extremely poor effort from Foreign Policy.

This.

It's a very sad story but the news are totally sensationalist and are obviously doing anti-Russia propaganda. I'm not Russian and I don't agree with Putin's views but this is bad journalism. Kadyrov and muslim Russians are the ones who are pushing in favour of polygamy. And now the West thinks that all Russians are celebrating this nonsense.
 

devilhawk

Member
Thread title should be about the girl who is being forced to get married not goddamned polygamy.
I think there is an interesting discussion to be had on polygamy assuming all participants are willing and of age, but that is certainly not the case here.
 
So, are there russians claiming that polygamy is a slippery slope that will lead to gay marriage? or are such fallacies exclusive to the USA?

what the fuck are you talking about


and this story is a bit old despite the recent timestamp on that article but nevertheless it's pretty embarrassing
not that we should be surprised at this development
 

Monocle

Member
Truly Russia is a bastion of traditional values. Healthy gay relationships? God no! Nonconsensual polygamy involving an old guy and a teenager? A-OK!

Inspiring.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Wha? None of this make sense. She looks so sad. :(


In another weird note, the guy doesn't look like he's nearing 60. But what is wrong with him?
 

benjipwns

Banned
Media in Russia is filled with opportunistic, empty beings with absolutely no agenda other than gaining power and wealth. Anything said or done by the political elite in Russia is seized on and lauded by Russian media to try and impress them and stay in their good graces. To put forward that Russian media has any sort of agenda based on (fucked up) morality or policy goals is to give them too much credit.
The kremlin doesn't exert hat kind of control over the media where every story is pre-screened, as far as I have read. They just make life miserable for anyone with opposing or sincere views, and appoint bootlickers to run their state media.
Boris Berezovsky is rolling in his grave.

;)
 

Amalthea

Banned
It's always those good ol' fashioned moral places that condemn homosexuality but are totally cool with polygamy (for men only of course) forced marriages of underaged girls, rape culture and
fucking animals
.
 
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