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[C- Warrior]

I unfortunately wanted to see the flora and fauna over at the gamefaq boards regarding the 360.

Which was a big mistake, as I know have fanboy declarations in my head...

1) Some were saying that Blue Ray won't be supported by developers because it costs more to manufacture than DVD?



2) They said that DVD can be read faster. What?! I thought Blue Ray's had faster transfer rates, and that it just took longer to 'write' onto a Blue Ray medium.


3) The GPU of the PS3 is actually weaker than the Xbox 360's.

Damn, GAF--I need to be gamfaq'ed cleansed.

Thanks!

 

[Jonnyram]

1) Some were saying that Blue Ray won't be supported by developers because it costs more to manufacture than DVD?

This is a given. Also it's a proprietary format - isn't DVD pretty much an open format now?

2) They said that DVD can be read faster. What?! I thought Blue Ray's had faster transfer rates, and that it just took longer to 'write' onto a Blue Ray medium.

The seek times are worse, but the transfer rate should be the same or better... apart from more recent DVD-ROM drives.

3) The GPU of the PS3 is actually weaker than the Xbox 360's.

No idea.

 

[Ponn]

Well, what do you mean by not supported by developers? Because of the size of the discs it makes them pretty enticing for most developers of games. Especially shooting for HD graphics, the price difference between Blu-Ray and DVD should be pretty slim. And if Blu-ray actually takes off as a movie format, which at this point it probably has a better chance then HD-DVD being part of the PS3. It's seek time may be longer then a DVD, well for the most part because they are so huge in size. I haven't heard anything specific though. Maybe someone has some actual tech specs.

 

[DeEJaYMiND]

*pssstt* it's BLU not Blue

 

[ManaByte]

Well, what do you mean by not supported by developers? Because of the size of the discs it makes them pretty enticing for most developers of games. Especially shooting for HD graphics, the price difference between Blu-Ray and DVD should be pretty slim. And if Blu-ray actually takes off as a movie format, which at this point it probably has a better chance then HD-DVD being part of the PS3. It's seek time may be longer then a DVD, well for the most part because they are so huge in size. I haven't heard anything specific though. Maybe someone has some actual tech specs.

Not so much developers, they'd love to have the extra space, but Blu-Ray WILL be more costly for publishers to put their games on because as of right now the discs annot be pressed at the same plants where DVDs are produced and that raises the cost for a game to be published on Blu-Ray. Honestly I can see first-party Sony titles shipping on Blu-Ray to push the format, but a vast majority of third parties will stick with DVDs for quite a while.

Also, BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are being released as a "movie format" with each one having some titles the other won't. They are splintering the home video market the same way SACD and DVD-Audio splintered the high-definition home audio market and both Toshiba and Sony can rot in hell for doing this.

Edit: It doesn't matter how well the PS3 does, it has absolutely nothing to do with the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray "war".

 

[Ponn]

Not so much developers, they'd love to have the extra space, but Blu-Ray WILL be more costly for publishers to put their games on because as of right now the discs annot be pressed at the same plants where DVDs are produced and that raises the cost for a game to be published on Blu-Ray. Honestly I can see first-party Sony titles shipping on Blu-Ray to push the format, but a vast majority of third parties will stick with DVDs for quite a while.

Also, BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are being released as a "movie format" with each one having some titles the other won't. They are splintering the home video market the same way SACD and DVD-Audio splintered the high-definition home audio market and both Toshiba and Sony can rot in hell for doing this.

Edit: It doesn't matter how well the PS3 does, it has absolutely nothing to do with the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray "war".

I wouldn't stick with that edit. The PS2 was a boon to DVD getting into households the way it did. If Sony can also get the rental chains on their side then it would be all over HD-DVD. Honestly though they should have came to a deal to avoid any consumer confusion. They do have an uphill battle regardless with DVD still being fairly new for alot of consumers.

 

[ManaByte]

I wouldn't stick with that edit. The PS2 was a boon to DVD getting into households the way it did. If Sony can also get the rental chains on their side then it would be all over HD-DVD. Honestly though they should have came to a deal to avoid any consumer confusion. They do have an uphill battle regardless with DVD still being fairly new for alot of consumers.

The PS2 did jack-fucking-shit for DVD in the US. In Japan, yea it definitely helped, but in the US the format was already well established by October 2000 and most people had a DVD player. Hell, you could buy a progressive scan player for $100-$150 less than what a PS2 cost that year and it was much easier to get.

The Blu-Ray/HD-DVD situation is much more complex than "oooh the PS3 is selling well, lets drop support of HD-DVD!" Studios have commited to HD-DVD for very specific reasons mostly due to cost issues (even with the higher-capacity HD-DVD spec just announced, it's still cheaper than Blu-Ray) and most importantly copy protection measures. If Sony offered the same data-reading technology that HD-DVD uses for copy-protection; there would be a single format and studios wouldn't be split over the two.

During the talks, there was a deal on the table to make a new format that combined HD-DVD and Blu-Ray by using Blu-Ray's disc format and HD-DVDs copy protection and data-reading methods. Both Sony and Toshiba rejected that and as such they will remain two separate formats with the studios supporting HD-DVD sticking with that format because of the sense of security it gives them.

 

[Ponn]

I think you are pretty confused or misinformed on the PS2 issue with DVD's. I worked at Blockbuster from 1999 to 2002 and DVD was just catching up too VHS in 2001 - 2002. PS2 really helped too increase those sales being at the 299 price point. And you were still having a hell of time getting a good dvd player at 150 bucks. Hell I had paid 300 for a toshiba the year before PS2 came out and it wasn't even progressive scan.

a good article from gamespot on all this blu-ray stuff

gamespot blu-ray

Cema DVD player totals for 1999 - 4,019,389

and for 2000 - 8,498,545

and for 2001 - 12,706,584

 

[ManaByte]

Uh, PS2s are NOT counted in DVD player sales...

Those are stand-alone player sales numbers.

 

[gofreak]

3) The GPU of the PS3 is actually weaker than the Xbox 360's.

The released specs say otherwise, but we simply don't have enough information about RSX to reach a conclusion yet. Xenos is a lovely design, it's very neat and looks very efficient, but that's not to be confused with absolute power (though, of course, it may indeed be more powerful). We've had a lot more reporting and information on Xenos, and it might leave the impression that it's more powerful (i.e. when you see enthusiastic reporting about Xenos and none about RSX), but we're really in a void of detail re. RSX imposed by Sony and NVidia. That'll hopefully change sooner rather than later.

 

[Amir0x]

The released specs say otherwise, but we simply don't have enough information about RSX to reach a conclusion yet. Xenos is a lovely design, it's very neat and looks very efficient, but that's not to be confused with absolute power (though, of course, it may indeed be more powerful). We've had a lot more reporting and information on Xenos, and it might leave the impression that it's more powerful (i.e. when you see enthusiastic reporting about Xenos and none about RSX), but we're really in a void of detail re. RSX imposed by Sony and NVidia. That'll hopefully change sooner rather than later.

I hope TGS is awesome for this sort of news...

 

[Ponn]

Uh, PS2s are NOT counted in DVD player sales...

Those are stand-alone player sales numbers.

Yes I know that, but you notice when they started to go up dramatically? 2000. Before that sales were pretty down and no where near the "dvd players were already in most households" you said. During the PS2 launch DVD's got even more attention and people standing on the sidelines who had a choice between a 150 to 200 dvd player or a 299 ps2 that could also play dvds was a no brainer. Then walmart started carrying cheaper dvd players to compete and BAM, took off like crazy. We went from 2 shelves and no widescreen at Blockbuster to half and half walls of dvd and vhs. And then widescreen, and right before I left we were actually starting to get more dvd format titles then vhs.

This is from thedigitalbits.com which has been a pretty cool site for any DVDphiles from the beginning. The guy pretty much hits on the head. He too has said the new formats will probably end up falling into obscurity regardless but again would have had a better chance if they had combined their efforts. It really is too soon to be asking people to jump into yet another format. At this point it will be much more practical for someone to go with a Blu-ray PS3 then a standalone 300 plus HD-DVD player. Even then the market is going to still be pretty small until HD TV's get into more households.

I'm going to go out in a limb right now and post something that some of you may consider a bit controversial. But I think the writing is on the wall. I think the format war is over before it's even begun, and the Toshiba/HD-DVD camp is toast.

Why? You know how many PlayStation 2 systems Sony's sold since that unit's launch? 87 million. Let me repeat that. 87 million. 1.5 million were sold in the PS2's first month of availability alone.

Now, let me follow this up by noting that Microsoft's newly announced Xbox 360 system is going to run on existing DVD media (for games and movies), but will not support HD-DVD format discs.

All of this is about what we expected, based on rumors as to what Sony and Microsoft were planning for their systems. But it's a very bad omen for the HD-DVD camp. Sony, within a few months of the time they expect to launch movies on their Blu-ray Disc format, is going to have several million machines on the market capable of playing them. Tens of millions by the end of the first year. And each of those machines is going to be more than capable of driving high-end HD displays. What is the HD-DVD camp going to have in that timeframe? Not even a fraction of that number of dedicated players.

Sony has the two biggest PC manufacturers in the world, Dell and HP, on their side, along with Apple, Hitachi, LG, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Royal Philips, Samsung, Sharp and Thompson. Plus they've 20th Century Fox, Disney, Sony Pictures (Columbia TriStar) and now MGM in their camp... AND they've got the PS3 on the way.

Toshiba has Microsoft in their camp, sort of. On the hardware front, they have NEC, Sanyo and Memory-Tech. And in Hollywood, they've got Warner, New Line, Paramount and Universal.

Think about that. If I'm a high-end, home theater-phile, early adopter type, am I going to be jonesing to get my hands on a Sanyo or Toshiba HD-DVD player, or a Sony or Pioneer Blu-ray Disc player (or a PS3)? Are you kidding me?

This thing is over. It's done. Toshiba and Warner Bros. just haven't figured it out yet.

There's word today (including this story at Technology News) that Toshiba is reluctant to back down from support of its 0.6 mm data layer format (DVD/HD-DVD) for fear of angering its supporters in the DVD camp, some of which have already been gearing up to replicate discs based on 0.6 mm. Here's my take: Get the hell over it, folks.

 

[Fafalada]

The seek times are worse, but the transfer rate should be the same or better... apart from more recent DVD-ROM drives.

Transfer rates depend on what speed BD drive you're talking about. A 4xBDR is faster then theoretical max speed for DVD drives, recent or not.

While on the subject, does Anyone have official spec for BDR seek times? Just wondering what exactly is this based on.

 

[gofreak]

Slightly OT, but I didn't want to create a new topic just for this (particularly in case it's already been posted - it's new to me though). Re. the Bluray/HD-DVD negotiations and their impact on PS3:

"The only hope is if we can reach an agreement in a week or two on a new format that is not that different from Blu-ray physically,” Kutargai told reporters at a gathering of business executives when asked if there were still time to agree on a unified format and have that incorporated in the PlayStation 3."

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-5-2005_pg6_5

Keep your fingers crossed..

 

[Jonnyram]

Transfer rates depend on what speed BD drive you're talking about. A 4xBDR is faster then theoretical max speed for DVD drives, recent or not.

Are they putting 4x in the PS3?

 

[cybamerc]

Are they putting 4x in the PS3?

6x

 

[thorns]

Are they putting 4x in the PS3?

They haven't announced what speed drive they are going to use yet. I don't know where people are getting the 6x information from. It's not on the official specs list at least.

 

[gofreak]

They haven't announced what speed drive they are going to use yet. I don't know where people are getting the 6x information from. It's not on the official specs list at least.

I think there was confusion with the "6x the capacity of dvd" comment. That's probably where it came from.

A 6x drive would be fantastic, but not very likely imo.

 

[GhaleonEB]

They haven't announced what speed drive they are going to use yet. I don't know where people are getting the 6x information from. It's not on the official specs list at least.

How does that compare to a 12x DVD?

 

[Twix]

RSX1 = not finished yet
RSX2 = PS3 a year from now


by adding the two equations together:

RSX1 + RSX2 = ΣRSX more powerful than anything else !!

 

[gofreak]

How does that compare to a 12x DVD?

IIRC, 12x DVD-rom = 16.2Mb/s transfer rate

1x Bluray = 36.5Mb/s transfer rate (6x would be 219Mb/s)

I've no idea about other specs.

 

[thorns]

IIRC, 12x DVD-rom = 16.2Mb/s transfer rate

1x Bluray = 36.5Mb/s transfer rate (6x would be 219Mb/s)

I've no idea about other specs.

you're confusing Megabytes and megabits..

I think it is:
12X DVD-rom: 133Mb/s
1x Blu-Ray: 35.6Mb/s

Sony will most likely go with 2x Blu-Ray (My guess)

 

[AndreasNystrom]

BluRay has 54.0Mbps for reading discs, and 36.5Mbps for recording.

all according to www.bluray.com/faq

They also say there will be a 2x spec soon, and there will be up to 8x

 

[GhaleonEB]

BluRay has 54.0Mbps for reading discs, and 36.5Mbps for recording.

all according to www.bluray.com/faq

They also say there will be a 2x spec soon, and there will be up to 8x

Sounds like 2x is what will be available around PS3 ship time. Thanks for the quick answers guys.

 

[thorns]

BluRay has 54.0Mbps for reading discs, and 36.5Mbps for recording.

all according to www.bluray.com/faq

They also say there will be a 2x spec soon, and there will be up to 8x

54Mbps is for "Video BD-ROM" and 36.5Mbps for normal blu-ray discs whatever that means?
I think very few games will use BD in the first few years, there is simply no need for that much storage space. All music, sounds, textures etc. will be most likely compressed.

 

[Ponn]

54Mbps is for "Video BD-ROM" and 36.5Mbps for normal blu-ray discs whatever that means?
I think very few games will use BD in the first few years, there is simply no need for that much storage space. All music, sounds, textures etc. will be most likely compressed.

Where do you find this Video BD-Rom and normal Blu-Ray discs at?

Oh, are you looking at the HD-DVD specs?

 

[thorns]

Where do you find this Video BD-Rom and normal Blu-Ray discs at?

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/186/2

 

[Ponn]

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/186/2

Ok I see it, but I don't see an explaination of the difference. I'm sure we will find out more later.

 

[gofreak]

you're confusing Megabytes and megabits..

I think it is:
12X DVD-rom: 133Mb/s
1x Blu-Ray: 35.6Mb/s

Sony will most likely go with 2x Blu-Ray (My guess)

I thought the DVD figures were a bit low! But my googling was using lowercase bs for those figures so I'll have to plead innocence Thanks for the correction!

 

[Bebpo]

If 2x Blue-ray is pretty much the same speed as 12x dvd I don't see any problem with sticking a 2x drive in the machine. 4x would be overkill but nice anyways.

The dvd:blue-ray ratio will probably be about the same as the cd:dvd ratio with the PS2. Most early PS2 games were cd, but the big names would use dvd just to show off. Now everything is dvd except for the one or two really low-budget developers still using cd (Nippon-Ichi for instance; and I expect them to still be putting their games out on cd format for PS3).

 

[monkeymagic]

Confusion is arising between the maximum video bitrate and data bitrate

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/ces2005_storagevisions_blu-raydisc-12903.pdf

The official specs confirm data bitrate to be

BD-ROM = 54Mb/s
BR-R/RE = 72Mb/s

and video bitrate

MPEG2 = 36Mb/s
MPEG4 AVC = 12Mb/s

Naturally, video bitrates fall within the data bitrate specs to allow for audio.

Sony stated that PS3 Blu-Ray drive will read at 6X and MS confirmed X360 DVD drive will be 12X:

6X BD-ROM = 324Mb/s
12X DVD-ROM = 133Mb/s

So the PS3 drive is about 2.5x the speed of the X360 drive

 

[dorio]

RSX1 = not finished yet
RSX2 = PS3 a year from now


by adding the two equations together:

RSX1 + RSX2 = ΣRSX more powerful than anything else !!

There is only 1 RSX and its the ps3 chip.

 

[monkeymagic]

As fast costs vs DVD replication are concerned this is the latest info

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/050525-12993.pdf

May 25, 2005

Blu-ray Disc Ready for Cost Effective Manufacturing

Process Improvements and Cost Reductions

Prepare Blu-ray Disc for Mass Production

Hollywood, CA – May 25, 2005 – Broad acceptance and adoption of Blu-ray Disc has led to the maturation of the complete disc manufacturing process. Having multiple companies involved with each step has contributed to process improvements and cost efficiencies that bring the long-term cost of manufacturing BD-ROM discs in line with current DVD replication costs.

Given that the costs won't be much higher (if at all) for initial replication, I suspect Sony will encourage developers/publishers to use BD-ROM for launch titles for both marketing and anti-piracy reasons.

 

[thorns]

Confusion is arising between the maximum video bitrate and data bitrate

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/ces2005_storagevisions_blu-raydisc-12903.pdf

The official specs confirm data bitrate to be

BD-ROM = 54Mb/s
BR-R/RE = 72Mb/s

and video bitrate

MPEG2 = 36Mb/s
MPEG4 AVC = 12Mb/s

Naturally, video bitrates fall within the data bitrate specs to allow for audio.

Sony stated that PS3 Blu-Ray drive will read at 6X and MS confirmed X360 DVD drive will be 12X:

6X BD-ROM = 324Mb/s
12X DVD-ROM = 133Mb/s

So the PS3 drive is about 2.5x the speed of the X360 drive

nice fanboy logic there :lol

1. Sony did not say anything about speed of BR drive, 6x is the storage space.
2. BR-R/RE is 36Mps, 72 is for 2x.

so:
2X BD-ROM (most likely scenario): 72Mb/s or 108Mb/s (for Video)
12X DVD-ROM: 133Mbs/s

I'm not sure if data discs use the video bitrate or if it's just for video.
in any case, xbox 360 drive 1.84x or 1.23x faster than ps3 drive when using blu-ray. Of course it will change if sony uses 4x blu-ray or greater, but they'll probably be too expensive.

 

[monkeymagic]

nice fanboy logic there
I'm not sure if data discs use the video bitrate or if it's just for video.

You clearly don't understand the difference between video bitrate and data bitrate but I've provided the official link to you with the specs and yet you choose to ignore them (conveniently)

But then I don't see a link backing up all your 'assertions' so I guess it's clear who the fanboy is here.

If it makes you sleep better you can continue believing a 12X DVD drive is faster than a 6X BRD drive but you're going to have to try harder to convince anyone else

 

[Amir0x]

You clearly don't understand the difference between video bitrate and data bitrate but I've provided the official link to you with the specs and yet you choose to ignore them (conveniently)

But then I don't see a link backing up all your 'assertions' so I guess it's clear who the fanboy is here.

If it makes you sleep better you can continue believing a 12X DVD drive is faster than a 6X BRD drive

I don't think you understand what thorn is trying to say. He's trying to say Sony won't be having a 6X BRD drive in the PS3. He's saying it'll have at most a 2X BRD drive.

 

[thorns]

You clearly don't understand the difference between video bitrate and data bitrate but I've provided the official link to you with the specs and yet you choose to ignore them (conveniently)

But then I don't see a link backing up all your 'assertions' so I guess it's clear who the fanboy is here.

If it makes you sleep better you can continue believing a 12X DVD drive is faster than a 6X BRD drive but you're going to have to try harder to convince anyone else

Ok first of all,

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200202/02-0219E/

Large Capacity Optical Disc Video Recording Format "Blu-ray Disc" Established

"Blu-ray Disc" Key Characteristics

1) Large recording capacity up to 27GB:
By adopting a 405nm blue-violet semiconductor laser, with a 0.85NA field lens and a 0.1mm optical transmittance protection disc layer structure, it can record up to 27GB video data on a single sided 12cm phase change disc. It can record over 2 hours of digital high definition video and more than 13 hours of standard TV broadcasting (VHS/standard definition picture quality, 3.8Mbps)

2) High-speed data transfer rate 36Mbps:
It is possible for the Blu-ray Disc to record digital high definition broadcasts or high definition images from a digital video camera while maintaining the original picture quality. In addition, by fully utilizing an optical disc's random accessing functions, it is possible to easily edit video data captured on a video camera or play back pre-recorded video on the disc while simultaneously recording images being broadcast on TV.

This is for the 1x specification.

Second,

Playstation 3 press release and specification:

http://e3.playstation.com/news/releases/nws_000.aspx

Nothing about blu-ray drive speed.

 

[Lord Error]

If 2x Blue-ray is pretty much the same speed as 12x dvd I don't see any problem with sticking a 2x drive in the machine. 4x would be overkill but nice anyways.

4x would certanily not be overkill. If they stick 2x drive in there, it would make perfect sense for developers to aviod using it for games and just stick to DVDs, as the DVD reading in that drive will most likely be 12-16x, thus faster than BR disc. Since that would make the BR option bad choice for games, it would be a waste to put 2x drive to begin with, and they should just stick to 1x which would be used for movies.

thorns, those specifics seem outdated. I think 2 layer BRD with 54GB per side is already made.

 

[cybamerc]

I think the 6x BD drive was mentioned in a PowerPoint slide.

 

[monkeymagic]

Ok first of all,

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200202/02-0219E/



This is for the 1x specification.

36Mb/s refers to video bitrate which we have already established must fall within the maximum data bitrate in order to allow for audio.

Also, in future, it would also be nice if you came up with links a little more recently than 2002 :lol

 

[Amir0x]

I think the 6x BD drive was mentioned in a PowerPoint slide.

As gofreak mentioned, we believe the slide was making note of its 6x storage capacity over DVD, not that the drive would be 6X.

I'd love to be wrong, of course, because if true that drive would be fucking blazing. Not to mention likely absurdly expensive, but hey if they get it in at 349/299, I won't care

 

[thorns]

36Mb/s refers to video bitrate which we have already established must fall within the maximum data bitrate in order to allow for audio.

Also, in future, it would also be nice if you came up with links a little more recently than 2002 :lol

Stop being so clueless. All you pointed out was some marketing presentation.
The 72Mbps is the disc speed, not the DRIVE speed. BD-RE is the name of the rewritable disc. It's similar to when you buy blank DVDs they have 4x on them. The data rate is 36Mb/s and COULD be 54Mb/s on BR-ROMs (i.e. game s or movies) but i'm not sure on that. It has nothing to do with video bitrate at all.

On 2x vs. 4x, 4x might a bit too expensive if it launches in spring, but I think there are already 2x drives out now, which might make it more sensible They probably don't want to do the first production run of 4x drives with the playstation 3, they would rather use those with standalone players to sell them at a premium? Well who knows what they'll do.

 

[Panajev2001a]

BD-ROM's transfer-rate is 54 Mbps, the one you quoted is BD-R/BD-RE.

 

[Amir0x]

BD-ROM's transfer-rate is 54 Mbps, the one you quoted is BD-R/BD-RE.

Panajev, you need a new avatar... your current one is a redX! You need to be distinctive!

 

[AndreasNystrom]

So, CD = 300kB/sec.
DVD = 1250kB/sec
and BD 6750kB/sec which is.. ~5,4x DVD.

Then we have DVD 12x = 15MB / sec. (which seems like a normal number)
133MB / sec, ... its as fast as the PCI-ports are, right?

Dont confuse MB = MegaByte, with Mb = Megabit.

 

[Fafalada]

Are they putting 4x in the PS3?

No idea, but we can always hope
Anyway, you didn't say anything in regards to seektimes - do you know what you referred to in the first post from some official source or not? And if yes, what is the supposed average seektimes supposed to be?

I'm not sure if data discs use the video bitrate or if it's just for video.

It's a freaking digital format - ALL the data is the same, there's no such thing as 'video disc'. Either you can read data at 54Mbps or you can't - and the official spec says yes for BDROM media.

 

[Jonnyram]

36Mb/s refers to video bitrate which we have already established must fall within the maximum data bitrate in order to allow for audio.

Are you quite sure about this? I always thought data bitrate is lower because it uses more checksums to ensure higher accuracy.

 

[thorns]

It's a freaking digital format - ALL the data is the same, there's no such thing as 'video disc'. Either you can read data at 54Mbps or you can't - and the official spec says yes for BDROM media.

umm not necessarily. Video data is generally more tolerant to errors since a wrong bit here or there might not change so much (or maybe it might - it all depends on the encoding used also, some encoding schemes are more error tolerant than others), so it might be possible to read at a higher rate than normal data where a bit flip might result in the whole file being corrupted.

 

[monkeymagic]

umm not necessarily. Video data is generally more tolerant to errors since a wrong bit here or there might not change so much (or maybe it might - it all depends on the encoding used also, some encoding schemes are more error tolerant than others), so it might be possible to read at a higher rate than normal data where a bit flip might result in the whole file being corrupted.

Again showing a complete lack of understanding and contradicting yourself along the way - do you even read what you've written? :lol

Are you quite sure about this? I always thought data bitrate is lower because it uses more checksums to ensure higher accuracy.

DVD NTSC (NTSC Film)

Video:
Up to 9.8 Mbps* (9800 kbps*) MPEG2 video
Up to 1.856 Mbps (1856 kbps) MPEG1 video
720 x 480 pixels MPEG2 (Called Full-D1)
704 x 480 pixels MPEG2
352 x 480 pixels MPEG2 (Called Half-D1, same as the CVD Standard)
352 x 240 pixels MPEG2
352 x 240 pixels MPEG1 (Same as the VCD Standard)
29,97 fps*
23,976 fps with 3:2 pulldown = 29,97 playback fps (NTSC Film, this is only supported by MPEG2 video)
16:9 Anamorphic (only supported by 720x480)


Audio:
48000 Hz
32 - 1536 kbps
Up to 8 audio tracks containing DD (Dolby Digital/AC3), DTS, PCM(uncompressed audio), MPEG-1 Layer2. One audio track must have DD or PCM Audio.

Extras:
Motion menus, still pictures, up to 32 selectable subtitles, seamless branching for multiple storylines, 9 camera angles. And also additional DVD-ROM / data files that only can be read by computer DVD drives.

Total:
Total bitrate including video, audio and subs can be max 10.08 Mbps (10080 kbps)

Notice how the video and audio bitrates all fall under the maximum data bitrate for DVD

The 36Mb/s in Blu-Ray documentation refers to the maximum mpeg2 video bitrate.

Total bitrate including video, audio and subs is 54 Mb/s which is confirmed on the offical Blu-Ray site at http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/ces2005_storagevisions_blu-raydisc-12903.pdf

 

[Kleegamefan]

BD-ROM drives (like the one in the PS3) are 54mb/sec for a 1X drive

BD-R/RE drives (recordable) are 36mb/sec for a 1X drive