http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan
is that true ? I dunno.. it doesnt make sense to me.. any answer please ?
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Question about HD resolution " 1080i VS. 720p "
- Thread starter Twix
- Start date
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan
is that true ? I dunno.. it doesnt make sense to me.. any answer please ?
Oh god. Here we go again. The 1080i image is interlaced, (it draws every other line in every frame) so in theory, it is worse quality. 720p is a progressive signal (it draws every line in every frame) and is theoretically superior. However, to most people, they look about the same.
1080i is largely found on CRTs instead of 720p. There are exceptions. Don't sweat it. They both look great.
1080i is largely found on CRTs instead of 720p. There are exceptions. Don't sweat it. They both look great.
Well, if you have a rear projection crt hdtv set like mine, (Hitatchi 51") then you are not getting a true 720p signal anyway. It's really a 540p "upconvert." For myself, I just keep it set at 1080i all the time. Even on action/sports events it looks crystal clear to me! My eyes don't seem to catch all of the so called blurring that is supposed plague 1080i signals. To me it looks fantastic!
CorruptionDee
Member
As for the whole 720p vs. 1080i, it's an argument that seems to go on forever. Is 720p really superior to 1080i? The answer is NO. Progressive scan is better than interlaced, this is true. So while a 720p image for fast moving pictures, like a sportscast, will look smoother and free of jaggies, it has less active pixels than a 1080i broadcast. 720p images are free of jaggies, and are flicker-free due to their higher scan rate, but I wouldn't say they're superior. I have seen and compared both a million times, and I still prefer 1080i. For sports, I guess 720p has the advantage of being "jaggie-free".But with film, it's a different story altogether. I find that film in the 1080i format looks significantly more detailed than a film in the 720p format. With games, it's a toss up. Both formats are awesome, and both excel in certain areas. 1080i has a higher resolution. 720p has a lower resolution, but is pro scan, and free of jaggies and flickering. 720p excels in video with a lot of fast movement. I actually prefer watching Yankee games in 1080i, rather than 720p though. In 1080i, it looks more detailed on the closeups.
The reason 720p looks slightly sharper to some people, is because it's pro scan, meaning it displays all the active pixels on screen in one shot, as opposed to 1080i having to do it in two shots. Another contributing factor would be that very few TVs actually resolve the full 1920x1080 of a 1080i broadcast, as where many sets that can display 720p natively fully resolve a 720p broadcast. If a set did the full 1920x1080i, the opinions of some people might change, because even though it can only display half of the active pixels at a time, it still has more active pixels than a 720p broadcast. Many people know, but for those that don't, here goes:
720p= 1280x720p= 921,600 active pixels
1080i= 1920x1080=2,073,600 active pixels divided by 2= 1,036,800 active pixels on screen at a time, assuming a set can display all the availible active pixels. For what it's worth, with the exception of Sony's super fine pitched tube, most CRT HDTVs can only resolve about 800 or 900 lines of horizontal resolution, out of a possible 1920 lines.
The reason 720p looks slightly sharper to some people, is because it's pro scan, meaning it displays all the active pixels on screen in one shot, as opposed to 1080i having to do it in two shots. Another contributing factor would be that very few TVs actually resolve the full 1920x1080 of a 1080i broadcast, as where many sets that can display 720p natively fully resolve a 720p broadcast. If a set did the full 1920x1080i, the opinions of some people might change, because even though it can only display half of the active pixels at a time, it still has more active pixels than a 720p broadcast. Many people know, but for those that don't, here goes:
720p= 1280x720p= 921,600 active pixels
1080i= 1920x1080=2,073,600 active pixels divided by 2= 1,036,800 active pixels on screen at a time, assuming a set can display all the availible active pixels. For what it's worth, with the exception of Sony's super fine pitched tube, most CRT HDTVs can only resolve about 800 or 900 lines of horizontal resolution, out of a possible 1920 lines.
Ecrofirt said:
I started asking myself the same thing a couple of years ago. When I bought my HDTV in January 2003, 1080i was the only resolution anyone was broadcasting in. It was the first high defintion resolution. Its the only resolution my TV supports. Then ESPN decided to start doing 720p, and then ABC followed, and then Fox. Everyone else is broadcasting in 1080i. My HDTV cable box converts the 720p stations to 1080i and I can't imagine it looking any better. Monday Night Football is pretty stunning, along with every other sporting event I watch in 1080i. I've watched Nascar races, The Kentucky Derby, SuperBowl, and the 2002 Salt Lake Winter games on BravoHD, all in 1080i and it all looks incredible.
CorruptionDee
Member
Very tough question that I cannot answer. However, I will tell you that for broadcasts, 1080i is more important, as it is more widely supported. All the premium channels like Discovery, HBO, Showtime, Starz, Cinemax, TMC, INHD, HDnet, etc. have embraced the 1080i format. The thing is, very few channels spit out the full 1920x1080i and even fewer TVs are actually capable of displaying all 2 million+ pixels. For 720p, ABC and Fox have embraced it. From what I have been reading, many broadcasters barely have the necessary bandwidth needed to broadcast in 1080i, so 1080p will be limited to Blu Ray and the PS3. Analysts expect 1080i to remain the main HDTV format for HD broadcasts. Only HDnet (Mark Cuban's channel) plans on broadcasting in 1080p. Some stations prefer 720p for their broadcasts, and like it because it requires less bandwidth than 1080i. 1080i requires a minimum (if I'm not mistaken) of 19mbps of bandwidth. The purest 1080i of seen comes in the form of DVHS tapes, which are playback at a full 1080i and 28 mbps. KLee says that Blu Ray has an even higher bit rate, so we may be seeing picture quality that surpasses real life in the not so distant future. 1080p is awesome, but the only sets that are comfirmed to fully resolve that resolution is the Sony Qualia and the new HP 1080p DLP RPTV, which retail at $13k and $5k respectively.
CorruptionDee said:
:lol
I can still notice a difference between 720p and 1080i on my 36" Sony HD CRT, and definitely prefer 1080i. 720p does have a slight bit more fluidity to it though. However, in the high-speed scenes, or in some sports broadcasts, both tend to suffer equally in the blur department, so I tend to stick with 1080i anyway where there's an option. I know how upscaling is supposed to work, but I have no idea what's actually happening with my TV's use of it, and I could care less. Both 720/1080 look fantastic, as the first reply pointed out. Embrace them <3
i remember people saying the current sony 1080p sets cant actually take in a 1080p signal, is that true? for everything else they just upconvert to 1080p, right?CorruptionDee said:
and for anyone with a high res sony set, how is the built in scaler (whatever resolution i/p to whatever resolution)? hows it compare to the faroudja ones? (small example of faroudjas scaler here)
720p might be better for certain programming but many prefer the extra resolution of 1080i. alot of this however is tilted toward your HDTV and how it scales
1080i HDTV: 1,080 scan lines x 1,920 pixels/line @ 2,073,600 pixels = 1,036,800 onscreen
720p HDTV: 720 scan lines x 1,280 pixels/line @ 921,600 pixels = 921,600 onscreen
DVD/SDTV: 480 scan lines x 720 pixels/line @ 345,600 pixels = 172,800 onscreen
i won't even list VHS & most PS2 game resolution... yuk
a broadcast standard wont happen but who knows, 720p might be a standard one day - like MP3s are in audio today - due to much smaller file size yet relatively close active pixel count onscreen.
1080i HDTV: 1,080 scan lines x 1,920 pixels/line @ 2,073,600 pixels = 1,036,800 onscreen
720p HDTV: 720 scan lines x 1,280 pixels/line @ 921,600 pixels = 921,600 onscreen
DVD/SDTV: 480 scan lines x 720 pixels/line @ 345,600 pixels = 172,800 onscreen
i won't even list VHS & most PS2 game resolution... yuk
a broadcast standard wont happen but who knows, 720p might be a standard one day - like MP3s are in audio today - due to much smaller file size yet relatively close active pixel count onscreen.
CorruptionDee
Member
Magnus said:
I also have a 36-inch Sony HDTV. Mine is the 36XBR800. Great set, with awesome image quality, before and after a few tweaks. Although mine is two years o0ld, I'd still like to get it ISF'ed. In any case, although the set is 1080i, I have seen 720p in its native format, and I still prefer 1080i for almost everything. For sports highlights, if you watch ESPN HD, you'll notice that many of the highlights in 720p look slightly smoother, because they don't have as many jaggies. But when the action settles down, 1080i shows more detail. I've seen Yankees games in HD, and when they zoom into the players' faces, I feel like I'm right on the field with them.
CorruptionDee
Member
japtor said:
I can't vouch for the Sony, but I know for a fact the HP MD6580 65-inch widescreen HDTV that I was talking about is a 1080p set that does accept a 1080p signal via its HDMI ports. That's another problem with 99% of the current so-called 1080p sets. Most of them CANNOT accept a true 1080p signal, let alone display the full 1080 resolution. If I had $5k to blow, I'd definitely snatch up the HP. It sounds amazing. It has every jack imaginable, and can display a full 1080p. Also, it even has a VGA input.
TheJesusFactor
Member
I think for Video Games, 720P is the better format especially for 60 frames per sec games. Movies won't suffer as much because they are displayed at 30 fps on a monitor that refreshed at 60 hz. So the interlaced image will actually look progressive in motion with proper progressive conversion. Quality will depend on the converter box. However, any game that tries to display motion at 60hz will suffer under 1080i, you will see every interlaced image and no level of progressive conversion will be satifactory.
Videogames almost always have fast action where the player viewpoint is constantly changing. The videogame world moves faster than Sports. So for 60fps games, unless the game is displayed at 1080p, I only want it at 720p. If the game is only 30fps, then I don't mind 1080i.
So here is my take:
1080i is best for 30fps broadcast and games
720p is best for 60fps broadcast and games.
1080p beats them both.
If you are going to get a TV, make sure that it either displays a full 1080P resolution or 720p resolution. Most HDTV on the market, only displays 540 lines of resolution and then they market it as 1080i. Currently, I still think DLP is the best bang for the buck. You get relatively great value, consistant image quality throughout its lifespan, true 720p and 1080p models and less energy use (less electric bill).
Videogames almost always have fast action where the player viewpoint is constantly changing. The videogame world moves faster than Sports. So for 60fps games, unless the game is displayed at 1080p, I only want it at 720p. If the game is only 30fps, then I don't mind 1080i.
So here is my take:
1080i is best for 30fps broadcast and games
720p is best for 60fps broadcast and games.
1080p beats them both.
If you are going to get a TV, make sure that it either displays a full 1080P resolution or 720p resolution. Most HDTV on the market, only displays 540 lines of resolution and then they market it as 1080i. Currently, I still think DLP is the best bang for the buck. You get relatively great value, consistant image quality throughout its lifespan, true 720p and 1080p models and less energy use (less electric bill).
DemonCleaner
Member
AB 101 said:
there is no such thing as 1080i native... thats bullcrap. as good as all hd-crttvs do NOT have a resolution of 1920x1080 so they are not 1080 native. most of them are around 1300 x 540 or so... so one could call them 540 native.
Warm Machine
Member
DemonCleaner said:
well, 1080 / 2 = 540. So you are getting the equivalent vertical resolution of 1080i...but I agree with you all the same, it not true resolution.
GitarooMan
Member
DemonCleaner said:
maybe not in CRT, but aren't the new Sony SXRD's 1920x1080 native?
The annoying thing with 720P Xbox games is that I can't even display them at all on my HDTV due to it being a 1080i only set (It's an older set that only supports 1080i as it was the only standard at the time). So I still play Xmen Legends 2 in 480p. I hope/pray/suspect that X360 will upconvert to 1080i automatically to avoid alienating those customers that only have 1080i, but I have not seen positive confirmation of that on any official MS PR stuff.
CorruptionDee
Member
KingV said:
It probably means that your set cannot support 720p. If you're using an HD cablebox, I suggest you go into the menu and make sure that the cablebox is not outputting a pure 720p signal. If only 1080i is checked, the cablebox should convert all incoming 720p signals to 1080i for display on your set.
CorruptionDee
Member
KingV said:
From what I understand, it does. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft knows that the majority of HDTV owners don't have sets that display 720p properly, if at all. Based on everything I've read thus far, all reports suggest that the Xbox 360 will convert 720p signals to 1080i for display on 1080i sets that don't support internal conversion, unlike the current Xbox.