Radical anarchist feminist

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Grizzlyjin said:
I actually came into contact with some people who were close to what you're describing. Met my first open Communist too, which was fun. I'm a political nerd, so even if I don't agree with you, I'm still curious to hear about your worldview.

I never really got into it with someone about anything. I'm pretty liberal myself but it was like listening to a parody of liberals on King of the Hill. As wild and off the wall as these people got sometimes, I can't really argue against the basis of their philosophy. Being more inclusive should be something we strive towards. That's why it's hard to take my conservative friends seriously because their argument is usually not coming from a place of understanding. It's the majority telling a minority group how it should be all the time. Which just doesn't seem right.

Also, I never got the scent of any animus against me as a man just for being a man. And I'm talking about some ultra super mega radical feminist. Like these are the women organizing the marches and events. Even if I don't use the same language as them all the time, I think any group is going to appreciate it if you at least try to hear them out. Which I have no problem doing. I'm a guy. I've always been a straight guy. I have no concept of what it's like to be a woman today.
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Fair enough. This response gives me confidence.
 
Tinfoilhatsron said:
What does Feminism have to do with Anarchy? They are polar opposites of each other.
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...what? The opposite of feminism is patriarchy and the opposite of anarchy is statism. Anarcha-feminism is about class struggle against the state and the patriarchy combined, taking into account women's perspectives due to the belief that the patriarchy is upheld by the state.
 
I really don't mean to sound offensive but that title seems like its one of those fighting games where they just put words in there to make it sound more exciting.

Super Radical anarchist feminist: 3rd Ultra Strike Edition X or something like that.
 
Alcotholic said:
I only judge based on actions, not appearance. My only exposure of feminism is based on what I read or watch online and formulate my own opinions. Tumblr feminists certainly do not represent the full movement as I'm sure majority are extremely reasonable people. But I try to disassociate myself from these modern movements as they could be too exclusionary towards many people. It could be the most in offensive, middle-of-the-road belief, but I'm a fairly non confrontational guy.
Although it's hard to really pinpoint where my political views lie when most of my discussions are with my queer anarchist faerie brother who debates the beliefs of Jesus Christ and the pros and cons of zoophilia and veganism.
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Hey now, I said I wasn't referring to you with my mention of egalitarianism :p. I don't believe you're one of those "unsavoury people" I mentioned in my post, I was mostly saying that egalitarianism can have some negative connotations and that's why I don't use the term. I'm sure you're cool OP!
 
Tapejara said:
Hey now, I said I wasn't referring to you with my mention of egalitarianism :p. I don't believe you're one of those "unsavoury people" I mentioned in my post, I was mostly saying that egalitarianism can have some negative connotations and that's why I don't use it. I'm sure you're cool OP!
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I know ;)
I jut thought it would be appropriate to expand my views off of your post.
All ideologies will have a few unsavory people.
 
Anyway OP, do not let the "labels" scare you, just go, take out all your prejudices, be respectful of their perspective, listen, dialog with them (just do not try to impose your perspective) and party in the night!
 
Alcotholic said:
But I try to disassociate myself from these modern movements as they could be too exclusionary towards many people.
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Just so you know, Egalitarian and Humanist and most of those "i am not a feminist, i am a X" are the poster boys for "modern movements that can be too exclusionary towards many people"
 
What do you call egalitarianism that's currently focusing on an issue related to females?
Female egalitarianism?
Seems like you could just keep it simple and call it feminism.
 
lol this is such a non-issue. You're just gonna talk to them. Why do you have to worry about impressing them of how much activism you do? You don't even have to bring up philosophies if you can't deal with a little discussion and possible arguing. I would love to chat with people who are passionate about something rather than be all "I'm not into politics" even though that's incredibly important to everything in our lives (unless if you're a rich white dude then you don't need care about politics since you'll always be catered for).

What is egalitarianism about? I thought it was just a cute diversionary answer to not liking the feminism label. Like All Lives Matter to Black Lives Matter. Shit, I'd love to see you bring up "I'm not into feminism, I believe everyone deserves equal treatment, so I call myself an egalitarian" and see it spark off.
 
Reneledarker said:
For example, with humanism, only what is considered to be a "human" on the society you live will have all the benefits that being human haves.
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I don't fully understand how this applies to me being an egalitarian. I've never heard humanism described this way before and doesn't really make sense.
 
Messofanego said:
What is egalitarianism about? I thought it was just a cute diversionary answer to not liking the feminism label. Like All Lives Matter to Black Lives Matter. Shit, I'd love to see you bring up "I'm not into feminism, I believe everyone deserves equal treatment, so I call myself an egalitarian" and see it spark off.
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I just don't agree with the methods that many feminists present themselves with. I would be a feminist otherwise. But what's the point of calling oneself a feminist if they believe everyone should be equal? Isn't the main focus of feminism for rights for women? I mean, I agree with that, but to me it doesn't leave room for inspection of other areas of civil rights. "But that's where intersectional feminism comes in." Then what's the point of feminism? or egalitarianism for that matter? If labels are an issue here, then I won't label myself. I don't wish to be associated with labels. That's my argument- I agree with equality for everyone.
My main criticism is the approach of these movements.
 
Alcotholic said:
I just don't agree with the methods that many feminists present themselves with. I would be a feminist otherwise. But what's the point of calling oneself a feminist if they believe everyone should be equal? Isn't the main focus of feminism for rights for women? I mean, I agree with that, but to me it doesn't leave room for inspection of other areas of civil rights. "But that's where intersectional feminism comes in." Then what's the point of feminism, or egalitarianism for that matter? If labels are an issue here, then I won't label myself. I don't wish to be associate with labels. That's my main argument- I agree with equality for everyone.
My main criticism is the approach of these movements.
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The point of feminism is that the rights of women are often being ignored or eroded, so in the context of actual reality focusing on the rights of women is in fact working towards equality. Usually (from what I can tell, anyway) egalitarianism is a term used by misogynists that believe women don't face any issues in society, so maybe you shouldn't be using it.
 
I find that most people that call themselves "Egalitarian", honestly are not egalitarian at all. They merely just want to oppose "SJW"s.

I guess they think that if they fight for no one's rights then by default they fight for everyone's...somehow? I don't get these people.

Or I guess they believe that everyone's equal already, but if that's the case then why call yourself an egalitarian? It makes no sense to me. That's like calling yourself a fire-fighter in a world with no fire! What's the point?

There's nothing wrong with being egalitarian, cause I would consider myself one, it's just that I'm lamenting about these, let's say, Psuedo-Egalitarians who only says they are just to try to one-up an "SJW".
 
Alcotholic said:
She hasn't explicitly stated that, but from what I've gathered from her Facebook posts, photos and other stuff. It's what I've come to the conclusion to.
The words she uses seems to subscribe to that ideology.
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What people post on facebook rarely reflects how they go about their daily lives.

Otherwise everyone in America that was a shade darker than albino would be already dead from all the crazy things the far right say about them.
 
Messofanego said:
What is egalitarianism about? I thought it was just a cute diversionary answer to not liking the feminism label. Like All Lives Matter to Black Lives Matter. Shit, I'd love to see you bring up "I'm not into feminism, I believe everyone deserves equal treatment, so I call myself an egalitarian" and see it spark off.
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You might say feminism is focusing on gender / sex inequalities. Yes, other inequalities are considered, but even the wikipedia definition stresses the importance of sexual / gender inequality. Of course, it's so broad that no one definition will fit every branch of it.

Egalitarianism, on the other hand, does not necessarily emphasize one dimension of inequality over others.

For example, as an egalitarian, I am very concerned with the racial gap in the US. Because I am also interested in potential inequalities between men and women (or transgender), one could also label me as a feminist; but I choose to define myself as an egalitarian to emphasize that I am more concerned with inequality of any sort, rather than specifically sex inequalities.

I think egalitarianism also allows for relatively less dogmatic approach to the "patriarchy" concept. It seems most feminist theory I have read stresses a binary model of privilege, which I believe is a simplification that leads to erroneous beliefs.

In other words, yes, poor white men might be "privileged" in comparison to rich white females along certain dimensions, but I think egalitarianism recognizes "Hey there's also income inequality going on here. This is also an issue."
 
Alcotholic said:
I just don't agree with the methods that many feminists present themselves with. I would be a feminist otherwise. But what's the point of calling oneself a feminist if they believe everyone should be equal? Isn't the main focus of feminism for rights for women? I mean, I agree with that, but to me it doesn't leave room for inspection of other areas of civil rights. "But that's where intersectional feminism comes in." Then what's the point of feminism? or egalitarianism for that matter? If labels are an issue here, then I won't label myself. I don't wish to be associate with labels. That's my main argument- I agree with equality for everyone.
My main criticism is the approach of these movements.
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It's kind of like the #AllLivesMatter thing.

"But I don't get why you have to say BLACK lives matter? I mean, don't ALL lives matter? Shouldn't they be talking about all lives instead of just black lives?"

Feminism is an approach that specifically focuses on women but that doesn't mean it's to the exclusion of other things. Feminism is also helpful to men since it helps strip away the patriarchal expectations that men are forced to live within by society, for example. And there are different kinds of feminism; a radical feminist pretty much by definition will be a socialist in some form, while a liberal feminist will not. Just saying "well I'm egalitarian" without first being familiar with these tendencies kind of does a disservice to all the work and theory that feminists (or anti-racists, or socialists, or leftists of whatever stripe) have put into their areas of research for centuries and frankly can sometimes allow people to ignore the other approaches by handwaving them away as people who are only interested in one subject.
 
Alcotholic said:
I just don't agree with the methods that many feminists present themselves with. I would be a feminist otherwise. But what's the point of calling oneself a feminist if they believe everyone should be equal? Isn't the main focus of feminism for rights for women? I mean, I agree with that, but to me it doesn't leave room for inspection of other areas of civil rights. "But that's where intersectional feminism comes in." Then what's the point of feminism? or egalitarianism for that matter? If labels are an issue here, then I won't label myself. I don't wish to be associated with labels. That's my argument- I agree with equality for everyone.
My main criticism is the approach of these movements.
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Would you tell a gay rights or Black Lives Matter activist that you feel like their fight is not inclusive enough, and doesn't leave enough room for other civil rights?

Even when you're well-intentioned, calling yourself egalitarian is code for "I have it pretty good, why do I have to label myself like those people who suffer from specific issues, like systemic racism or daily sexual harrassment? Vague egalitarianism it is!". It doesn't solve anything because there is no edge to it, no precise goal. But it sure is easier.
 
Sotha Sil said:
Would you tell a gay rights or Black Lives Matter activist that you feel like their fight is not inclusive enough, and doesn't leave enough room for other civil rights?

Even when you're well-intentioned, calling yourself egalitarian is code for "I have it pretty good, why do I have to label myself like those people who suffer from specific issues, like systemic racism or daily sexual harrassment? Vague egalitarianism it is!". It doesn't solve anything because there is no edge to it, no precise goal. But it sure is easier.
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Did I say anything about the issues PoCs or LGBTQ face? No.
#AllLivesMatter is bullshit.
There are issues more important that we have to face right now, but I think feminism often misses the mark.
 
Alcotholic said:
I don't fully understand how this applies to me being an egalitarian. I've never heard humanism described this way before and doesn't really make sense.
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Honestly I do not understand the notion of "egalitarianism" in the type of civilization we live. Why? Because for all humans to be "equal" you need to live in a society that considers everyone to be a "human" or a "full human" and not a "sub-human" or "less than human". For example, in the USA minorities like blacks, latinos do not get the same privileges that being white have. Now, if you add white + men + hetero + wealthy then you get the most privileges. If you are black + trans + poor + lesbian + anarchist then you are probably at the bottom and your life is considered to be that of a "less than human" by institutions like the police.

So in order to be "equal" the ones that are considered "less than human" need to take conscience of the place in society they are to find the way to fight all this types of oppression and exploitation relations. So, a women that considers herself feminist, is not against all the other forms of liberation, with feminism she us just taking on the forms that affect her as woman. Now, if you add intersectional feminism in your practice of feminism you are taking in account the other forms of oppression that also affect you and at the same time, the form that also affect someone else depending on the type of "labels" that living in this specific type of civilization adds to you.

Also sorry for my English, is not my first language and I do not practice it too much. Also this is just a perspective, not an universal point of view.
 
Alcotholic said:
Did I say anything about the issues PoCs or LGBTQ face? No.
#AllLivesMatter is bullshit.
There are issues more important that we have to face right now, but I think feminism often misses the mark.
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What are the more important issues and how does feminism miss the mark?
 
"I'm not a feminist but an egalitarian" is kind of a dog whistle for the disregard for women's struggles, often resulting in "but what about men?" as response to questions of inequalities as a woman.
 
Lime said:
"I'm not a feminist but an egalitarian" is kind of a dog whistle for the disregard for women's struggles, often resulting in "but what about men?" as response to questions of inequalities as a woman.
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OP, I think I found one of your friends.

You already have an awareness of the issues and are doing the right thing in your own way; you don't report to anyone and you can label your position whatever you feel is appropriate. If respectfully not wanting to debate it with them isn't enough to avoid their ire, I'm afraid you'll have to avoid those people.
 
smorgasbird said:
OP, I think I found one of your friends.
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Lime said:
"I'm not a feminist but an egalitarian" is kind of a dog whistle for the disregard for women's struggles, often resulting in "but what about men?" as response to questions of inequalities as a woman.
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its sad that it's becoming that because ideally all of us in here are egalitarian. it really has been corrupted by some holier than thou types than just want to say "you only care about women / minorities, well i care about everyone" while missing the point that people are trying to work to get womens / minority rights up to the standards of everyone else.

smorgasbird said:
I dunno about that, you implied OP was an MRA despite it being clear he has good intentions.
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no he didnt. he explained how people are misusing the term "egalitarian" Lime made no judgement on the OP
 
smorgasbird said:
I dunno about that, you implied OP was an MRA despite it being clear he has good intentions.
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I wasn't saying OP was, I was pointing out how the expression is generally used and understood in these types of conversations. I should have made that clear in my post.

It's basically a meme by now.
 
Reneledarker said:
Honestly I do not understand the notion of "egalitarianism" in the type of civilization we live. Why? Because for all humans to be "equal" you need to live in a society that considers everyone to be a "human" or a "full human" and not a "sub-human" or "less than human". For example, in the USA minorities like blacks, latinos do not get the same privileges that being white have. Now, if you add white + men + hetero + wealthy then you get the most privileges. If you are black + trans + poor + lesbian + anarchist then you are probably at the bottom and your life is considered to be that of a "less than human" by institutions like the police.
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Egalitarianism is precisely fighting for the idea that every human is indeed "human" and has equal access to some basic rights. I realize there are multiple definitions, just like any "ism", but I think that's a pretty common theme.

I think you are getting tripped up over semantic definitions in this case. Or since you mention english is not your first language, perhaps, egalitarianism translates to something else?

Here's the wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism
 
Alcotholic said:
Did I say anything about the issues PoCs or LGBTQ face? No.
#AllLivesMatter is bullshit.
There are issues more important that we have to face right now, but I think feminism often misses the mark.
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I know you didn't. I was making a point. If you think other kinds of movements can fight against the specific discrimination and abuse they face without calling themselves "inclusive egalitarians", why can't women?
 
Well, no one like the insufferable asshole who thinks they know more and do more than everyone else.

Doesn't matter the ideology.
 
Lime said:
"I'm not a feminist but an egalitarian" is kind of a dog whistle for the disregard for women's struggles, often resulting in "but what about men?" as response to questions of inequalities as a woman.
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Prime example of the "you're either with us or against us" mentality that plagues identity politics.
 
smorgasbird said:
OP, I think I found one of your friends.

You already have an awareness of the issues and are doing the right thing in your own way; you don't report to anyone and you can label your position whatever you feel is appropriate. If respectfully not wanting to debate it with them isn't enough to avoid their ire, I'm afraid you'll have to avoid those people.
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I think this is a perfectly fine sentiment, but considering the OP thinks that feminism is somehow exclusive of

Alcotholic said:
men, women, black, white, gay, straight, cis, transgender, etc.
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issues, it's a little troubling.

You can label yourself whatever you want without misunderstanding what modern feminism covers. Frankly, it's puzzling to me that OP thinks that feminism somehow isn't inclusive of all of the above. Using the most extreme sect of a movement (in this case, "radical anarchist feminists") to characterize the entire movement is extremely disingenuous.
 
Just go and see for yourself. If you don't enjoy yourself, then stop being friends with them. Its not that hard. Go in with an open mind.

If they are constantly being negative and judgmental then you should stop being friends with them as well. Those types of people will put you in an early grave.
 
Kwixotik said:
"Why do Nidorina and Nidoran have to be listed separately and ascribe to gendered characteristics?! Ugh, I can't believe you play that filth"
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To be fair, it is a bit bothersome they haven't mushed up both Nidoran pokemon since gender became an actual mechanic.
 
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