How can you not see that as typical tough guy bullshit? Mature tough guys wouldn't post a fucking meme about someone committing suicide, especially if that "meme" is a racial slur.
Recruit killed himself amid culture of abuse, Marine Corps says
- Thread starter Dalek
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How can you not see that as typical tough guy bullshit? Mature tough guys wouldn't post a fucking meme about someone committing suicide, especially if that "meme" is a racial slur.
Guess I forgot my audience, sorry brad.
Killing yourself is an emotional devastating thing no matter who you are or what you did or didn't do. As a service member the fact you make light of it for anyone is disgusting. Its not something you should just brush off because he didn't cross the finish line and its a disgusting attitude. As I said you would never say this kind of crass shit about a service member doing this and the fact that someone who isn't yet is fair game is a sad state of affairs.
What? There's a time and a place for GAF memes and it's not in a thread beginning with "Recruit killed himself", especially when said recruit could have very likely been the recipient of harmless "memes."
You're just a piece of meat in the grinder until the end when you're a burger right? Love this army REAL MEN shit...
He tried to be a REAL MAN, a MARINE now he's DEAD cause he couldn't take it ROFL
Nailed it.
You're a real piece of work.
lightskintwin
Banned
I mean, it's not a Gaf meme. It's an old expression and it highlights a very cold and cynical view of the world and sadly an accurate one.
Now whether it was in poor taste to post it in this thread, which is your main contention is something I agree with you on.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Whenever I think of the marines, see their logo etc, I ALWAYS think about that 20/20 or nightly news segment on the hazing, particularly the part where they painted the recruits' genitals with nail polish
ALL THE TIME. No "guy must be a badass". Just "I wonder how he got the nail polish off".
Sorry, bro.
ALL THE TIME. No "guy must be a badass". Just "I wonder how he got the nail polish off".
Sorry, bro.
"Guess I forgot my audience" implies that he thinks it's perfectly fine to say it because he's on GAF, or something, it was a really vague statement.
Though I don't know about you but is the n-word part of the saying? I've always heard it as "people die all the time", which whilst still just as insensitive isn't as bad as saying it in reference to the Recruit in question.
LucidMomentum
Member
This thread has shown me that I'm clearly not the type of person who would make it in the military.
It's like a constant thing though. When will the Marines get to the bottom of it? Do they care to try that much?
It's like a constant thing though. When will the Marines get to the bottom of it? Do they care to try that much?
People die every day apparently or something.
lightskintwin
Banned
LOL No, the n word isn't part of the older expression, just updated for newer audiences.
Yeah I thought so. But, as I said, "newer audiences" or not it's still a racial slur. This isn't a Black Twitter thread, there's no reason to use it here other than to show off your insensitivity in front of everyone.
lightskintwin
Banned
I mean, I've heard it phrased the exact way he said it, it usually highlights making a big deal out of one man's death when Blacks are dying in their communities, by police officers, and in jail cells on a daily basis.
I don't follow this kind of news very often, how common is it? I mean, you're thinking of an institution that has been around for over 2 centuries, it has to be pretty hard to overcome an entrenched abusive culture, especially since there are probably obstructionist leaders within the Marine Corps from the "Full Metal Jacket" days that still believe that hazing is an effective training tool for toughening troops.
It's definitely not going to get fixed in a day.
lightskintwin
Banned
Bingo.
LucidMomentum
Member
Yeah but we only hear about the worst and / or most newsworthy cases. How often does this happen on a daily basis and people don't speak out about it?
How long has it been happening? Saying it won't get fixed in a day when it's still happening with what seems to be the same frequency as 10, 20, 30 years ago is absurd.
Someone hit me with the stats so that last statement is overturned, please. I'd like to be educated on that at least so I can have some comfort that it just doesn't come up for PR reasons and then keeps on happening all the same behind the scenes.
The fact that every Military person in this thread has had a story of some sort, even of differing levels, is what really gets me.
Like why do people just accept it?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
And consider that some of these people turn into cops..
Because it's all about boys being boys and sure its a tragedy but it was unavoidable and they really weren't cut out to be marines anyway. /s
To some degree, you have to trust other soldiers with your life. If Johnny Headcase doesn't have the mental fortitude to get through a stressful situation like basic, how well can I really trust him in a combat situation? It's the same reason we have physical fitness requirements. Can it be done better? Probably.
You don't really train for the 99% of your career miltiary that will be extremely boring and ordinary. That shit's a cakewalk. You're training for that 1% when everything has gone wrong.
LucidMomentum
Member
Why the fuck does that make widespread hazing, among other issues like rape and abuse, okay?
Are people trying to equate the hazings and abuse administered by peers and the encouragement of said abuse by people in administrative and managerial positions as some sort of mental fitness test?
I would expect to be tortured as a POW, not as someone doing their job.
The military trains people to follow orders and be cogs in a machine. Insubordinate behavior is seen as a risk even if it does not actually break the written rules. Anything that goes against the currently established structure needs to be snuffed out. Your question does not even make sense from a military perspective.
Obviously there is a difference in how this is handled in different countries, branches and social cliques etc but that's the reality behind all the pretense and bullshit.
tornjaw
Member
I'm glad not everyone followed that advice. My Drill Sergeant in ITB (Infantry Training Brigade) was a hulking, beast of a man. I respected and looked up to him and without his relentless pursuit of excellence of all of us I probably would not have the mindset I do today nor would I be where I am at in life. Thank you, Drill Sergeant Mills, you terrifying bastard.
Neoleo2143
Member
I can understand the situation about "breaking them down and building them back up", or I would if it were carefully observed by a psychiatrist of some sort. Are Psyche exams common in these procedures? I would hope so.
I think the best teachers are those that are completely willing to let the student fail but unwilling to let them feel like a failure. Many cause the opposite which causes the psychological issues.
I think the best teachers are those that are completely willing to let the student fail but unwilling to let them feel like a failure. Many cause the opposite which causes the psychological issues.
lightskintwin
Banned
My father was my Drill Sergeant (Master Sergeant to be exact) hulking, beast of a man, which is why I have respect for the people in our military and the type of discipline and career path they can offer people.
devildog820
Member
The problem is that he snapped while being subjected to things well beyond the training regimen. So any evaluation wouldn't have shown issues in most cases. If DIs that follow the rules thought he was close to breaking under normal training they would've backed off. These guys didn't and now a life is gone.
The problem with letting failure occur in the Marines is that if you fuck up, you can wipe out a whole platoon.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Between this and the rape stuff I kept far away from the military no matter how bad life got. I'd rather starve to death in the street than unconditionally submit myself to mindless macho bullshit with zero character or integrity that goes unpunished and uncorrected the vast majority of the time. The military really needs to get over itself, cut the bullshit, and kick out anyone involved with any of this kind of shit. Soldiers fulfill a very heavy and solemn duty so they should have the highest moral integrity.
I didn't want to be the first to post this. I agree with this post. I am a veteran and war is hell. Not everyone is cut out to be military and unfortunately some people can't hack it. I believe that the military should just be up front and take every precaution to protect and weed out those who don't have the physical and mental stamina for punishment. It may sound harsh but I don't want to be in a fox hole behind enemy lines with someone who prone to bug out because they are 'upset'.
This is a sad tragedy though. Proper monitoring of this recruit should have had him washing out long before it got to this point.
Whether or not this specific case, or BMT in general, constitute an unreasonable amount of hazing or abuse is arguable. Rape is obviously a major problem, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I wouldn't want to deploy with people who had never had there mental wherewithal tested, and I think the experience that I had(or witnessed) in BMT was 100% acceptable.
Edit: As Cimarron kind of mentions, I think the failure here is that nobody realized he was at the breaking point, and was in a position to hurt himself.
BlitzerRadic
Member
He could have asked to see the chaplain and quit. I know at least a couple guys in my company did that when I was in boot camp.
He could also just not have jumped off a stairwell, but the point is that people who commit suicide have mental health issues and need help. Saying they should have made better decisions is kind of missing the point. Probably the Marines should be filtering out people with mental health issues in a way that doesn't involve pressuring them to destruction.
John Kowalski
Banned
I once visited a military base, and they had this promotional poster covering a wall right next to the entrance. It said things like "help us make the military great" and stuff. But with big red letters, someone had written "THIS IS HELL" on it. The poignancy of it left a big mark on me. Haven't had a positive opinion on the military ever since.
The regular army never mind royal marine psych exams everyone here and looks at all your medical history. It is one of the only employers exempt from the disability discrimination act.
Surely the US most do this?
I asked about this earlier in the thread.
This is clearly bad. I'm guessing part of the problem is that military enlistment rates keep dropping, so hitting the targets gets harder and harder.
Ah thank you.
That is really troubling I expected the US to have more stringent checks than we do after those base shootings a few years back.
For Intel and some Spec Ops positions they are pretty heavy on the checks because of the nature of those positions, but so far in my experience the actual recruiters themselves aren't very privy to digging deeper than they need to unless you make something of that nature known.
I've been trying to get into the Navy for nearly a year now, but because I had one scuffle with a (soon to be former) brother in law when he broke into our house and tried to forcefully extract his kids in a fit of rage after yelling at my sister, the mother, nevermind his rather healthy list of criminal misconduct vs my spotless record at the time (even going as far as almost attacking one of my parents at the time, he got to the phone first and made the call), I've been treated like a psychopath and have had to jump through so many hoops that I'm about ready to simply either try my luck with another branch or just quit altogether.
I wouldn't mind if this was for an Intel position that I was hoping to land, but I haven't even literally been to MEPS yet.
We used to get a big kick out of the "MARINES DON'T STEAL" poster.
The military, in general, can be a positive force in one's life, just have to choose the right path.
highrider
Banned
I served in the Army from the late 80s to early 90s. My job was data gathering meteorological information for artillery and my school at Ft. Sill Oklahoma had Marine instructors and students, and other students from allies. Those Marine instructors would hit Marine students with an open hand. They were rough guys. Marines have a tough job, but there's no excuse for treating a person this way.
Messofanego
Banned
Same last name as me...at least justice was served.
Blackpanther25
Member
It depends on which branch and how you join. I personally never witnessed hazing (but hey Navy is different from the Marines).
I very much like you never joined a fraternity as well due to hazing. I'm not one for that.
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