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[R0ckman]

What happened to that scene where it showed "The Queen's brother" as an entirely different character? The scene where your guardian goes "Why don't you put that down so we can talk?" and the awoken guy goes "Out here in the wild, this IS how we 'talk'."

I remember when I got to the rift and saw that guy and was like "WTF, are there different paths in the story?"

I don't see why some people are calling this unlikely? The story I posted in the other thread lines up with this pretty well and there's sufficient evidence in videos from 2013 to give some water to this theory.

Today people seem to lack critical thinking skills, if it's not TOO much of a stretch it's usually easy to fill in the missing pieces to a puzzle, but maybe people are now in the mindset that you need absolutely everything laid out on the table.

 

[R_thanatos]

I think we all know what happenned to destiny story "i could tell you" but it's not my place to do so.

 

[Maulik]

So any guesses if the media will get a chance to ask Bungie all of our questions?

 

[Impala26]

What happened to that scene where it showed "The Queen's brother" as an entirely different character? The scene where your guardian goes "Why don't you put that down so we can talk?" and the awoken guy goes "Out here in the wild, this IS how we 'talk'."

I remember when I got to the rift and saw that guy and was like "WTF, are there different paths in the story?"

DLC INCOMING

(or simply cut entirely, if the OP speculation is to be taken as truth)

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

So any guesses if the media will get a chance to ask Bungie all of our questions?

One guess: No.

 

[kaching]

The story is certainly spartan but it's hardly any worse than 95% of videogame storytelling, as much as the hyperbole to contrary is flying around here. It leaves much to be explained but I rather like that approach given the scope of what seems to be intended for this game world over the next several years. I'm fine with the story playing out more as disconnected vignettes and leaving the bigger picture shrouded in mystery. That's frankly been Bungie's strength in storytelling, IMO. Once they reveal how everything ties together, it tends to get very mundane and uninspiring. They're best at crafting beautiful worlds to explore (and shoot lots of stuff in) while driving story slowly forward with minimalist detail to keep the intrigue high. It works for me.

 

[backflip10019]

So any guesses if the media will get a chance to ask Bungie all of our questions?

I sincerely doubt that we'll ever hear anything about this. Maybe in 20 years when a tell-all story or book is written about it, but not until then.

 

[Euron]

I'm pretty certain that the gutting of Destiny's story had to do with Joe Staten's departure. Why he left is something I don't know, maybe it had to do with Activision focus testing? But regardless, I feel Bungie lost their vision after Joe left and had to scrap much of the game.

The marketing for the game seemed so much different in 2013 than it did in 2014. Just watch the PS4 reveal trailer. It seemed that Bungie was creating a hugely ambitious world at first but once key staff members left they most likely had to scale everything down.

 

[Ooccoo]

Activision probably called and asked Bungie to deliver the game in small chunks to generate more profit through DLCs and season passes. The only problem is that people will probably not eat the DLC blindly like they thought and Destiny will end up being one of the biggest failures of our generation. $400 millions of fucking dollars for a tragically bad FPS that brought NOTHING new to the genre. Probably one of the most overhyped products of all time.

 

[Effect]

So any guesses if the media will get a chance to ask Bungie all of our questions?

Not a question of getting the chance to ask them. It's will they even bother to and will Activision/Bungie even acknowledge the issue. They can continue to just ignore it and the gaming media likely won't bother to press them further if they ask at all.

 

[Klyka]

Activision probably called and asked Bungie to deliver the game in small chunks to generate more profit through DLCs and season passes. The only problem is that people will probably not eat the DLC blindly like they thought and Destiny will end up being one of the biggest failures of our generation. $400 millions of fucking dollars for a tragically bad FPS that brought NOTHING new to the genre. Probably one of the most overhyped products of all time.

The 500 million are for the entire franchise, planned over 10 years. Not for this one first game.

 

[Ooccoo]

I'm pretty certain that the gutting of Destiny's story had to do with Joe Staten's departure. Why he left is something I don't know, maybe it had to do with Activision focus testing? But regardless, I feel Bungie lost their vision after Joe left and had to scrap much of the game.

The marketing for the game seemed so much different in 2013 than it did in 2014. Just watch the PS4 reveal trailer. It seemed that Bungie was creating a hugely ambitious world at first but once key staff members left they most likely had to scale everything down.

He probably left because he knew the game was becoming shit and didn't want to be associated with a failed project and blatant false advertisement. I'd have done the same really, better to quit than give your name to something you don't believe in. Destiny is nowhere near as close to the game it pretended to be and the reviews mirrored that.

 

[Pooya]

What was that site a gaffer made with all the cards in one page?? Reading through the site/app is so inefficient, uh. Is there any thing more on that I don't have time to explain stranger? The only scene where it looked like there was some emotion or anything was that little light bit. Everything else felt so dead.

 

[farisr]

Don't know if true or not, but would explain the severe downgrade in quality compared to past Bungie titles. (strictly talking about the story/storytelling here folks, like this topic)

 

[Ooccoo]

The 500 million are for the entire franchise, planned over 10 years. Not for this one first game.

It's for a single game. Bobby Kotick even said so. They plan for Destiny to have a ten year lifespan, but the budget for the first game was indeed $500 millions. At least this is what I found, and the number include marketing.

 

[Definity]

I don't even have time to tell you why I don't have time to tell you the story.

 

[LiK]

What was that site a gaffer made with all the cards in one page?? Reading through the site/app is so inefficient, uh. Is there any thing more on that I don't have time to explain stranger? The only scene where it looked like there was some emotion or anything was that little light bit. Everything else felt so dead.

Indeed, having to dig a few levels deep to read a paragraph is a pain. Wish they just listed them codex style. Whoever designed the Grimoire UI is a jerk.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

This is all really interesting, something clearly went wrong and things were rushed.

I mean if you just play the story missions in order it doesn't work. Even if you do every bounty and mailed bounty you will not be high enough level to complete the story missions in order. You have to re-do missions and PVP to level up.

there is no way they intended that. It makes no sense that you can't just go from A-B-C-D in the story mode.

utterly crazy, I love Destiny. Its my GOTY but man I think some crazy stuff went down.

 

[Klyka]

It's for a single game. Bobby Kotick even said so. They plan for Destiny to have a ten year lifespan, but the budget for the first game was indeed $500 millions. At least this is what I found, and the number include marketing.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-budget-nowhere-near-500-million-bungie-says/1100-6420802/

“For marketing you'd have to ask Activision people, but for development costs, not anything close to $500 million,” Parsons told GameIndustry International in an interview. “I think that speaks a lot more to the long-term investment that we're making in the future of the product.”

“We’re pouring everything it takes into Destiny to ensure it meets our fans' expectations, and our own,” Osborne added. “Activision is, too. But the budget for Destiny, including associated marketing costs and pizza Wednesdays, is nowhere near 500 million dollars.”

http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/13/5807752/destiny-500-million-budget-activision-bungie

And the $500 million budget is many things. It’s production, and it’s marketing. It’s everything. You can see some of the money when you look at the game’s presence at E3. Every time you see a commercial for Destiny you’re seeing some of that cost. The $500 million isn’t the cost to make a single game, it’s the cost to get a franchise rolling, in the public eye and ready to ship.

...

$500 million is a huge sum for a single game, but it’s merely an impressive number when you look at the possibility of three or more games stretched across the ten-year deal that Activision signed with Bungie. We don’t know what that budget means, how it’s broken down, or if the other games will require other discrete investments from Activision once Bungie has shipped, but the conversation around the number and what it means is deeply flawed.

This isn’t the price of one game, this is the amount of money Activision is willing to spend to create a framework from which to launch multiple games, post-launch content, and the tools and technology to ideally allow easier and faster development on the sequels.

 

[nubbe]

I think we all know what happenned to destiny story "i could tell you" but it's not my place to do so.

think of the children

for the love of the maker, think of the children

 

[Impala26]

I don't even have time to tell you why I don't have time to tell you the story.

Destiny OT6 Thread Title right there

 

[Queen of Hunting]

My fiancee was skeptical about Destiny given its lead-up and how the bits of gameplay showcased seemed to be Halo-esque in physics, but having an overall muted color palette and seemed to be yet another in the long entry of games that had a post-apocalypic setting.

I thought she was being overly critical/cynical and reassured myself "Oh, but it's Bungie, it's going to be a great game." The departure of Joe Staten and then the outright axing of Marty O'Donnell really made me sour on this game--call it at gut feeling. And you described it perfectly well why. Why would this happen to two of Bungie's most well-known employees right on the cusp of their launch of a massive, epic new IP? All that fomented in my head after thinking about this was, "uh oh, something's not coming out right about Destiny, is it?"

And eventually my fears/concerns were realized. It's still a great concept going forward and it's gameplay mechanics are sound, but the overall execution is just poor, at least for a Triple-A studio like Bungie. And that's really a shame due to how much money (not the $500 mil, but still a lot) were poured into this game's development and all the excellent voice talent just squandered.

yup two founding members of a company for so long dont just up and leave and in ones case get fired. the fact that marty's case was settled outside of court probably means bungie and activision doesnt want the details going public either.

its aslo interesting how joe has gone back to microsoft and isnt even working on halo.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It's for a single game. Bobby Kotick even said so. They plan for Destiny to have a ten year lifespan, but the budget for the first game was indeed $500 millions. At least this is what I found, and the number include marketing.

I don't know why you're blaming Activision. And Bobby Kotick just repeated what Bungie said, from the head of production:

So what I’ll say to you is: we said that we were a ten-year game, and both Activision and Bungie have committed to being wholly behind the large effort, and it’s a large investment for both sides. I don’t think there’s any set date – ten years is just representing the go-forward presence and the way that we think about doing things.”

And further proof-http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-06-23-bungie-coo

The shitty story? That's on Bungie. The content that was 'held back/cut'? That's on Bungie. The decisions made for the game? That's on Bungie.

People keep attributing the bad things that were put in Destiny on Bungie and it's like....you what?

 

[Impala26]

yup two founding members of a company for so long dont just up and leave and in ones case get fired. the fact that marty's case was settled outside of court probably means bungie and activision doesnt want the details going public either.

its also interesting how joe has gone back to microsoft and isnt even working on halo.

Can't blame him, probably both burned out on Bungie AND Halo. I think the same can be said about Marty. Regardless of how much fans would like him back to work on future Halo soundtracks, I just can't see that happening. I would shit bricks if he did however, lol.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

What was that site a gaffer made with all the cards in one page?? Reading through the site/app is so inefficient, uh. Is there any thing more on that I don't have time to explain stranger? The only scene where it looked like there was some emotion or anything was that little light bit. Everything else felt so dead.

No. But I'm betting a lot of these story beats do get incorporated in to the game eventually (probably Destiny 2). The Exo stranger was apparently part of Crow's group (but was apparently a "male" originally) in the earlier builds. It would also explain why she's not a Guardian and who she's talking to on the radio. It would also explain why she's not really working with the Guardians (besides you who she's vetting pretty hard) when you'd think she would have the same goals (defeating the darkness). So why is she working with this splinter group? The only thing I can think of that would contradict it is a line she says "Only then will the Traveler begin to heal." but you could probably explain that away (Maybe the Vex are a more pressing issue and she told you what you needed to hear to get motivated / Maybe the Traveler needs to be whole before it can be taken out). Plus in that same conversation she mentions sides need to be taken "Even if it's the wrong side".

 

[pj]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-budget-nowhere-near-500-million-bungie-says/1100-6420802/



http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/13/5807752/destiny-500-million-budget-activision-bungie

According to wiki, bungie has about 500 employees. At a fairly conservative estimate of $100k per employee (salary, insurance, 401k matching, etc), that's $50 million a year. That doesn't include the cost of rent, utilities, computers, software licensing, and all the other various things that go into a game.

Obviously there havent been 500 people working on destiny for 5 years, but it seems very unlikely that the development costs of THIS game were under $200 million.

 

[Meier]

A different publisher would have delayed Destiny until it was right and fit more in line with the demo. I would have been fine with Destiny being delayed and released in 2015 (or even 2016). Just as long as the final game I would have received was a lot of fun to play.

No they wouldn't -- this would only happen in your dreams. The real world requires you to actually make money and appease stockholders. Activision would have been murdered if they didn't get this shipped this year.

Delays of that magnitude are why companies like Square-Enix are struggling and having to do anything they can to stay afloat. A project of this size costs a lot of money.. you simply can't eat another $100-$200 million in dev costs and then delay making a billion dollars in sales or so on top of that when any changes would have done nothing to help sales.

 

[WGMBY]

Plus in that same conversation she mentions sides need to be taken "Even if it's the wrong side".

Based on the new storyline info the argument could be made that she's referring to your character when she says that

 

[Meier]

Activision probably called and asked Bungie to deliver the game in small chunks to generate more profit through DLCs and season passes. The only problem is that people will probably not eat the DLC blindly like they thought and Destiny will end up being one of the biggest failures of our generation. $400 millions of fucking dollars for a tragically bad FPS that brought NOTHING new to the genre. Probably one of the most overhyped products of all time.

This is a nice dream if you're desiring for it to do poorly (which frankly is a strange thing to wish), but unfortunately the game has sold well and will continue to sell well. All told, it should easily ship 20 million copies. How much they actually profit remains to be seen, but a big chunk of the upfront cost is just getting the series off the ground, creating a lot of assets, engine work, etc. The sequels will still have high dev costs due to bonuses and the like for developers, but they won't require as much upfront work.

 

[HTupolev]

I'm at work so I can't really look for all of them but this one right here http://destiny-grimoire.info/#Card-106050 is

Spoiler

actually Rasputin talking. Basically he saw that he could not defeat the Darkness if he had to care about also protecting humanity, so he actually started the collapse to give himself time and to get rid of his burden. "The Gardener" is the Traveler, who was found on Mars above the Black Garden, hence "The Gardener". There's also another card from Old Russia I think where the AI mind of the colony ship there talks about "The Tyrant" who is supposed to be Rasputin. And on Mars in the missions "The Buried City" at the end you find an AI that is immediately taken over by Rasputin at the end of the mission and he basically silences it and takes full control of it.

I've seen that card, and it doesn't make it obvious at all that

Spoiler

Rasputin initiated the collapse. It does certainly suggest that he ultimately reacted to it unusually, and perhaps selfishly. But even that ultimately doesn't tell us much about his present role in the story. It's entirely possible that Rasputin winds up being a Durandal of sorts.

 

[catapult37]

The bad guys are called "The Darkness." That should sufficiently set your expectations no matter what may or may not have changed during development.

 

[PanicFreak]

So you're overleveled, so the levels are easy and that bores you.

Why don't you switch to the hard mode where enemies are 3 levels about the Normal one?

Why do you overlevel if you know it makes the game boring?

Why do you do patrols so much if they're boring and you overlevel due to them? (<- which is the cause of a good chunk of your problems)

If you're overleveled increase the difficulty. Don't grind anymore, just do the story missions, play when you feel like it, do some PvP matches if you feel like it and don't worry for the bounties at this point (if you're already overleveled)

When you reach level 20 there are new difficulty setting where you won't feel as overpowered.



Yup. That E3 2012 trailer with the biggest areas and gameplay posibilities was insane. I'd do nasty things in order to be able to play "that" Bioshock Infinite.

Even if it was controversial (in GAF, not press since they gave it high scores) I think it's a really good game. A really good game that failed to reach the original in some ways, but that doesn't make it bad on its own.



And subscription based MMOs have problems solved through patches that are released months after the game launch. I don't see the problem here. People that wanted to kill Arthas in WoW had to resub. People that wanted to go to Uludar had to resub. List goes on.

Their option were probably ask for a monthly fee (which wouldn't work on consoles) or do a DLC program (which is a common practice in consoles).

The problem is not that they left open storylines. It's a common practice in those kind of games. The problem is that the one that they were supposed to "close" was a boring mess with an uninspired ending.

I'm not complaining about the DLC. I just wasn't impressed enough by the regular game to "resub", so to speak. I'll never play that content unless it's on a steep discount. I'm also not sure I'll purchase the large expansion next year.

I'm just so disappointed by the whole thing.

 

[angrygnat]

Well color me corrected. I have been a huge defender of Destiny thus far but some of these stories are beginning to sound as if there is a lot of truth to them. I stopped reading the piece about halfway through because I didn't want to accidentally read any spoilers. If this is true, if Bungie and Activision ruined this games story just so they could milk it for a few more bucks, it's going to make me question continuing to buy this. It still doesn't make any sense why they would do it. Destiny was a shoein to be the biggest selling new IP of this generation. Why hobble the story to make short term profits now? Over the course of the next ten years the profits could potentially be much greater. If this turns out to be true I will be so disappointed. My naïveté strikes again.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Based on the new storyline info the argument could be made that she's referring to your character when she says that

Exactly. In context it sort of sounds like she's talking about the Awoken, but the way she says it makes it sound like she's talking about something she's not being fully up front with.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Well color me corrected. I have been a huge defender of Destiny thus far but some of these stories are beginning to sound as if there is a lot of truth to them. I stopped reading the piece about halfway through because I didn't want to accidentally read any spoilers. If this is true, if Bungie and Activision ruined this games story just so they could milk it for a few more bucks, it's going to make me question continuing to buy this. It still doesn't make any sense why they would do it. Destiny was a shoein to be the biggest selling new IP of this generation. Why hobble the story to make short term profits now? Over the course of the next ten years the profits could potentially be much greater. If this turns out to be true I will be so disappointed. My naïveté strikes again.

Well, it's not like Bungie left Microsoft to work on more personal, avant garde games.

 

[Dunlop]

Well, it's not like Bungie left Microsoft to work on more personal, avant garde games.

1 - The Halo series was fully fleshed out (story wise)
2 - WTF does MS have to do with any of this?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I've seen that card, and it doesn't make it obvious at all that

Spoiler

Rasputin initiated the collapse. It does certainly suggest that he ultimately reacted to it unusually, and perhaps selfishly. But even that ultimately doesn't tell us much about his present role in the story. It's entirely possible that Rasputin winds up being a Durandal of sorts.

The bit near the end where

Spoiler

He cast off his shields and let people die on purpose.

Seriously, that card has more lore into it then the whole freaking game can muster to show us and it's fucking amazing. What do we get? Some shitty exo that doesn't explain anything?

 

[BajiBoxer]

The story is certainly spartan but it's hardly any worse than 95% of videogame storytelling, as much as the hyperbole to contrary is flying around here. It leaves much to be explained but I rather like that approach given the scope of what seems to be intended for this game world over the next several years. I'm fine with the story playing out more as disconnected vignettes and leaving the bigger picture shrouded in mystery. That's frankly been Bungie's strength in storytelling, IMO. Once they reveal how everything ties together, it tends to get very mundane and uninspiring. They're best at crafting beautiful worlds to explore (and shoot lots of stuff in) while driving story slowly forward with minimalist detail to keep the intrigue high. It works for me.

Actually I'd say it's much much worse. Just calling reactions "hyperbole" doesn't make it so. People have laid out pretty well how the story is very poorly told, and been very rational about it. I'm all for mystery and leaving some things unexplained too, but it really is a haphazard mess the way the story in Destiny has been handled. Filling in the gaps with the final product being pretty mundane and uninspired would be an improvement to what we were given. The setting and design are interesting, but that's not the same as storytelling. They may have even been better off giving even less story without throwing in the poorly written nonsensical pieces we had. Then they could have done a more fleshed out dlc campaign in the future that wasn't hampered by pre-existing scenes.

 

[GeordieMark]

I've had a lot of fun with Destiny so far, and think it has received a lot of unfair criticism on certain aspects of the gameplay, but I can't even begin to defend the story. It's a mess.

I was thinking about it yesterday and trying to piece together some sort of coherent theory as to why the different races are fighting each other, and what on earth is going on overall, and I ended up more confused than when I started.

Judging by what I've seen of the game pre-release, and what I've played of the game, this seems like an example of a dev who simply ran out of time and had to start canning parts of the game in order to hit the release date.

I can't believe Bungie are satisfied with how the story ended up. It really is nonsense as things stand. Grimoire cards look like a sticking plaster-solution that was implemented hastily when it became clear that what was shippable by the publicised release date was a confusing mess in terms of story.

I really hope Bungie can turn it around because Destiny has a ton of potential and is really playable. It's a game that deserves a far better story.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

1 - The Halo series was fully fleshed out (story wise)
2 - WTF does MS have to do with any of this?

They wanted to split from MS for the industry's largest new IP multiplatform deal that is in effect an MMO-like game as platform to rake in even more DLC/expansion money.

 

[Apeboy]

Destiny looking more like Hellgate London everyday.

The hype. The promises. The drama.

 

[M3Freak]

The key question now is this: will you buy the DLC?

The only way I can answer this for myself is that I want buy the DLC, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm concerned the DLC will just be more of the same bullshit.

I'm glad I didn't pay full price for this disappointment. I pre-ordered the game at Future Shop during their annual E3 pre-order sale and saved $20.

 

[watership]

Can't blame him, probably both burned out on Bungie AND Halo. I think the same can be said about Marty. Regardless of how much fans would like him back to work on future Halo soundtracks, I just can't see that happening. I would shit bricks if he did however, lol.

I'm sure Joe was giving a nice choice job at MS. I just hope he does some VO work on some grunts for Halo 5.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

The key question now is this: will you buy the DLC?

The only way I can answer this for myself is that I want buy the DLC, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm concerned the DLC will just be more of the same bullshit.

I'm glad I didn't pay full price for this disappointment. I pre-ordered the game at Future Shop during their annual E3 pre-order sale and saved $20.

Yes. I will pay out the ass for anything Destiny related and more content.

and yes I am part of the problem.

 

[DJ_Lae]

The key question now is this: will you buy the DLC?

The only way I can answer this for myself is that I want buy the DLC, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm concerned the DLC will just be more of the same bullshit.

I'm glad I didn't pay full price for this disappointment. I pre-ordered the game at Future Shop during their annual E3 pre-order sale and saved $20.

Not until I have confirmation that the DLC will actually add new stuff of note - if it's just some new patrol mission types and strikes/story missions in areas we've already been dozens of times, nope.

 

[boredofcanada]

Activision probably called and asked Bungie to deliver the game in small chunks to generate more profit through DLCs and season passes. The only problem is that people will probably not eat the DLC blindly like they thought and Destiny will end up being one of the biggest failures of our generation. $400 millions of fucking dollars for a tragically bad FPS that brought NOTHING new to the genre. Probably one of the most overhyped products of all time.

It may be a lot of things but it's not a "tragically bad" FPS. The shooting aspect of Destiny is spot on.

 

[Doran902]

It may be a lot of things but it's not a "tragically bad" FPS. The shooting aspect of Destiny is spot on.

Agreed . They nailed the actual gameplay. They nailed the art as well. The only thing "tragically bad" is the story and the lack of social functionality inside of what was suppose to be a social game.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Destiny's current story is a whole room of Chekhov's Guns all jamming before the third act.

 

[MDSLKTR]

He probably left because he knew the game was becoming shit and didn't want to be associated with a failed project and blatant false advertisement. I'd have done the same really, better to quit than give your name to something you don't believe in. Destiny is nowhere near as close to the game it pretended to be and the reviews mirrored that.

"Probably left because"..." I'd have done the same really" jesus, keep dreaming lool

 

[kaching]

Actually I'd say it's much much worse. Just calling reactions "hyperbole" doesn't make it so. People have laid out pretty well how the story is very poorly told, and been very rational about it.

People have certainly laid out why they don't like the story, but not necessarily why it's objectively worse than most VG storytelling such that it deserves more criticism relative to that.

The setting and design are interesting, but that's not the same as storytelling.

Establishing setting is most certainly a part of any basic storytelling. Don't try to convince me that you're criticisms are rational if we can't even agree on a basic precept like this.

They may have even been better off giving even less story without throwing in the poorly written nonsensical pieces we had. Then they could have done a more fleshed out dlc campaign in the future that wasn't hampered by pre-existing scenes.

This is what I'm talking about regarding hyperbole. "Nonsensical" doesn't fit the story I've experienced in this game. The story is sparse but straightforward, not in the least bit difficult to follow at all. It certainly leaves plenty of unanswered questions, but that's hardly the same as nonsensical. And that story hardly hampers what they can do with any dlc campaign in the future. By its very minimalism, it leaves the possibilities quite open-ended. There's nothing in the story told so far that has established such rigid canon that shackles any future storytelling in any significant fashion.