Support NeoGAF

[belgurdo]

Man, this game is a lot more interesting when you're playing the smoother PC version and you get those blinding speed boots and enough weaponry to chop through an entire town (guards are still giving me problems, but more training with these awesome glass weapons I spent 10 minutes hunting people down for will take care of that. :lol )

I also forgot how long this game is...I've been playing for about four days and I still haven't really moved east of Balmora. I think back to San Andreas and how large that game's map was, and I'm trying to figure out how much larger Vvardenfell is. Anyone have a proper comparison?

 

[SteveMeister]

Vvardenfell's roughly 10 square miles (the area of Cyrodiil in Oblivion is around 16 square miles.) Not sure how big GTA:SA is.

 

[belgurdo]

Vvardenfell's roughly 10 square miles (the area of Cyrodiil in Oblivion is around 16 square miles.) Not sure how big GTA:SA is.

Good God. And I heard Daggerfall is even bigger... something about three months to travel the entire map

 

[Suikoguy]

Good God. And I heard Daggerfall is even bigger... something about three months to travel the entire map

Yeah, but the majority of the map of Dagger fall was filled with.. nothing

 

[LegendofJoe]

I've almost explored the entire map of Morrowind and both the expansions. I'm really glad I don't officially know how much time I've put into the game, talk about a life sucker. If Oblivion is just as huge, with as many quests you can count me out. I'd love to get sucked back in, but nowadays I just don't have the time-which is very unfortunate.

 

[SteveMeister]

I've almost explored the entire map of Morrowind and both the expansions. I'm really glad I don't officially know how much time I've put into the game, talk about a life sucker. If Oblivion is just as huge, with as many quests you can count me out. I'd love to get sucked back in, but nowadays I just don't have the time-which is very unfortunate.

Well, the nice thing about Oblivion is that you can save any time. So you can play when you get the time, be it for 15 minutes or an hour or 3 hours or whatever. And the journal's better organized, so it's easy to pick up where you left off

Oh, and now it keeps track of how long you've played with a character

 

[Ark-AMN]

And the journal's better organized, so it's easy to pick up where you left off :

Indeed, the main reason why I could never fully enjoy Morrowind was that if I ever left the game for a while and came back, I couldn't remember what on earth I had to do.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I sunk an ass-ton of time into Morrowind. 80+ hours before I even touched the main quest.
For those who can be pulled into it, it's as immersive of a game as we've ever seen. Really looking forward to Oblivion.

I also support the idea that Daggerfall was much, much bigger (and much much emptier) than Morrowind;
but check this unofficial, but supposedly accurate map.

Vvardenfell is bigger than Iliac Bay!! WTF Stevemeister?

 

[Speevy]

I can't wait to play Oblivion. I beat Morrowind and put hundreds of hours into side quests.

 

[SteveMeister]

I sunk an ass-ton of time into Morrowind. 80+ hours before I even touched the main quest.
For those who can be pulled into it, it's as immersive of a game as we've ever seen. Really looking forward to Oblivion.

I also support the idea that Daggerfall was much, much bigger (and much much emptier) than Morrowind;
but check this unofficial, but supposedly accurate map.

Vvardenfell is bigger than Iliac Bay!! WTF Stevemeister?

I think that picture's not precisely to scale.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Then explain this

 

[Zensetsu]

I've sunk so much time into morrowind, first on the xbox and then later when i built my current PC I went back and got the expansions and played through it all again. I would hazard a guess at my total playing time being over 300 hours. There was a point where it was the only game I played for months. It got to the point where I was having trouble making a new character because i'd allready tried all the different archetypes.

There are some really cool Mods still floating around that add some great stuff as well. Theres the high quality face\body replacements although some people don't like them.. A cool one i tried replaced the ashlands with a huge forest, I think it was called green morrowind or something.
Also the command mod that allows you to give orders to subordinates in a guild was fun....and the on that added wandering traders and adventurers on the roads.
Quite a lot of quality stuff out there.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

And this:

 

[Ark-AMN]

I want to explore the Black Marsh!

I hope the Argonians and Khajit have more specialized weapons and armor. I don't like seeing beast races wearing human clothes, they look off.

 

[SteveMeister]

Then explain this

Vvardenfell is only PART of Morrowind.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Don't try to hose me, sir.

Vvardenfell is that big damn island there, that is bigger on the map than Iliac Bay, which was goodamn huge in Daggerfall.

10 square miles for an island, and then 16 square miles for a whole kingdom? This is a tiny-ass empire.

Vvardenfell comparison

 

[pj]

The games were built on different scales. Morrowind is 1/5th daggerfall's scale, according to what I think I may have read.. a couple years ago..

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

The games were built on different scales. Morrowind is 1/5th daggerfall's scale, according to what I think I may have read.. a couple years ago..

In-game, yeah. And Morrowind is better for it.

But, looking at these in-game maps, unless that isn't Vvardenfell covered in lava, then something is fucked up.

 

[pj]

In-game, yeah. And Morrowind is better for it.

But, looking at these in-game maps, unless that isn't Vvardenfell covered in lava, then something is fucked up.

I don't understand what you mean..

Btw 16 square miles isn't the whole kingdom, it's just cyrodil

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I don't understand what you mean

And if you haven't ever tried to get somewhere by walking in Daggerfall, you wouldn't.

Btw 16 square miles isn't the whole kingdom, it's just cyrodil

I know this. Cyrodil is a kingdom. Tamriel is an Empire.

 

[pj]

And if you haven't ever tried to get somewhere by walking in Daggerfall, you wouldn't.

It's not that I don't understand your argument, it's that I don't know what your argument is.

We've already established that morrowind and daggerfall were made on different scales, what else is there to explain?

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

You are suggesting that Daggerfall represented Iliac Bay in actual size, but Morrowind purposely represented Vvardenfell in a "smaller-than-life" form, despite the fact that they let you run from coast to coast.

Well... Lemme hear it from Stevie.

I think that picture's not precisely to scale.

Wha'snap?

 

[LegendofJoe]

Well, the nice thing about Oblivion is that you can save any time. So you can play when you get the time, be it for 15 minutes or an hour or 3 hours or whatever. And the journal's better organized, so it's easy to pick up where you left off

Oh, and now it keeps track of how long you've played with a character

Thanks for the response, that's good to hear that the journal's been redone. It'll make it a lot easier for me to quit in the middle of long quests and not come back a few weeks later to find myself totally confused as to what I was doing last. Who am I kidding there's no way I won't end up buying Oblivion sooner or later. I should have better self control this time around too.

 

[Synbios459]

While we're talking about Morrowind, I was hoping you guys could give me some tips. I've had it for a long time, and made my character, but that's it, any tips?

 

[pj]

You are suggesting that Daggerfall represented Iliac Bay in actual size, but Morrowind purposely represented Vvardenfell in a "smaller-than-life" form, despite the fact that they let you run from coast to coast.

I never said that, I haven't played daggerfall in a long time, so I don't remember the size of iliac bay. All I said was that morrowind was made on a smaller scale.

What does the scale have to do with the ability to run from coast to coast? It's the same area, it's just smaller than it would be if it had been in the same scale as daggerfall.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

We got some semantics goin' on here.

Saying that something has been made on a smaller scale can be taken two ways.

1. Literally a shruken representation of a larger object. Just like model cars and trains.
As if Daggerfall featured a 1:1 iliac Bay, but Morrowind featured a 1:5 Vvardenfell.
As if Vvardenfell actually is bigger than Iliac Bay, but Bethsoft decided to make a miniature, Epcot version of the island in Morrowind for the sake of the game. As if 1 foot in Daggerfall does not equal one foot in Morrowind.

2. One might also understand it to be the scale of the project. As if Bethsoft didn't want to try and tackle a place as large as Iliac Bay again, and parred their design down to a single small island. It's their island, they can tell us that is as large or as small as the want. But then 1 foot in Daggerfall DOES equal one foot in Morrowind.


Either answer is acceptable to me, I'm just looking for closure. But if Morrowind features a miniature Vvardenfell, then Steve's comment about the fan-map (which featured the same geography as the Bethsoft maps, but actually labeled the island as Vvardenfell) having incorrect scale is very odd.
I'm not taking his assesment as strict canon, mostly because I realize that it was off-the-cuff.

Summary: If that lava covered island is indeed Vvardenfell, and Morrowind's Vvardenfell was not miniaturized, then I'm left going "Huh?"

 

[RaySpencer]

so what about Oblivion? do we know how big it is? is it part of that big map ?

.... i know nothing :'(

 

[pj]

We got some semantics goin' on here.

Saying that something has been made on a smaller scale can be taken two ways.

1. Literally a shruken representation of a larger object. Just like model cars and trains.
As if Daggerfall featured a 1:1 iliac Bay, but Morrowind featured a 1:5 Vvardenfell.
As if Vvardenfell actually is bigger than Iliac Bay, but Bethsoft decided to make a miniature, Epcot version of the island in Morrowind for the sake of the game. As if 1 foot in Daggerfall does not equal one foot in Morrowind.

2. One might also understand it to be the scale of the project. As if Bethsoft didn't want to try and tackle a place as large as Iliac Bay again, and parred their design down to a single small island. It's their island, they can tell us that is as large or as small as the want. But then 1 foot in Daggerfall DOES equal one foot in Morrowind.

I'm like 95% sure it's option 1.

Either answer is acceptable to me, I'm just looking for closure. But if Morrowind features a miniature Vvardenfell, then Steve's comment about the fan-map (which featured the same geography as the Bethsoft maps, but actually labeled the island as Vvardenfell) having incorrect scale is very odd.
I'm not taking his assesment as strict canon, mostly because I realize that it was off-the-cuff.

ok now I see where you got confused. Yeah it does seem odd that he would say that if option 1 is true..

 

[pj]

so what about Oblivion? do we know how big it is? is it part of that big map ?

.... i know nothing :'(

I heard oblivion is all of cyrodil, aka imperial province. That would mean the game is on an even smaller scale than morrowind.

So if 1 daggerfall foot = 5 morrowind feet, 1 daggerfall foot would probably = 20 oblivion feet

Take that with a large grain of salt, though. I have no idea how reliable the source is, and my math is sketchy at best.

 

[RaySpencer]

I heard oblivion is all of cyrodil, aka imperial province. That would mean the game is on an even smaller scale than morrowind.

So if 1 daggerfall foot = 5 morrowind feet, 1 daggerfall foot would probably = 20 oblivion feet

Take that with a large grain of salt, though. I have no idea how reliable the source is, and my math is sketchy at best.

sounds smaller but bigger 0.o ....im confused

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

sounds smaller but bigger 0.o ....im confused

Pull up a chair.

 

[Tarazet]

I love the 7-minute speedrun of Morrowind. It really deflates the grandiosity of the game.

 

[SteveMeister]

This is an inane thing to be complaining about. When it comes down to it, does it really matter if Vvardenfell and Cyrodill are on the same exact scale to each other? They are separate games. It's not like you can travel from one to the other. In addition, Cyrodiil is also oddly shaped -- the 16 miles doesn't mean it's a 4 mile by 4 mile perfect square, whereas Vvardenfell is fairly regularly shaped. And don't forget there are over 200 dungeons and the planes of Oblivion that simply are not counted in that 16 square miles. And finally, if you look at all those maps, the shapes and proportions of the various islands, countries and land masses vary quite a bit. It's not like they are renderings of physical terrain made by professional cartographers, the result of actual survey

Oblivion is a huge, huge game. And even with the landmass being 60% larger, there's still a better distribution of things to do in that landscape as compared to Morrowind's.

 

[SteveMeister]

I love the 7-minute speedrun of Morrowind. It really deflates the grandiosity of the game.

Not really -- it represents hundreds and hundreds of hours figuring all that stuff out. It doesn't bother me in the least. And it also resulted in us fixing some exploits (for example, in Oblivion you can only have a specific number of potions affecting you at once, the number is based on your Alchemy skill.)

 

[Birbo]

Talking mudcrab!

Sunk so much time into it and think I only came about halfway through to completion of the main quest. Love the game but had to put it down for a few months due to some family issues and could never pick it back up. Wish I had the time and the constitution to finish it.

Morrowind is my Rushmore.

 

[Kuran]

Then explain this

WHAT! Daggerfall runs in DOSBOX?! That means I can play Daggerfall in OSX without having to use VPC?! Yay!

Could you, if you wish.. message me on AIM to answer some simple questions? I'm 'kuranbmr'...

 

[Kuran]

double post...

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

This is an inane thing to be complaining about

It's not inane, and I'm not complaining.
Would I have spent the time to dig up all those pics and camp this thread if I wasn't a big fan of the series?

I loved Daggerfall, and I loved Morrowind even more. Seeing that the little island that I adventured every inch of was supposedly bigger than the gaint wasteland of Daggerfall blew my mind.

It's extremely interesting to me, given my interest in the series, to think that Morrowind's Vvardenfell might not be full size. I simply never thought of it like that; you put a few hundred hours into an island and you think you know it. So while, as a game aficianado, I can appreciate the decision, if true, to "scale down" the geography of the games, as someone who spends obsene amount of time in these locations, there is an unsatisfying element in the realization that I did not get to experience the "whole thing."


Give merchants more money plz. That mudcrab was like my common-law wife.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Could you, if you wish.. message me on AIM to answer some simple questions? I'm 'kuranbmr'...

No. Because I don't use AIM and I didn't take that screenshot; I found it through Google.

 

[pj]

This is an inane thing to be complaining about. When it comes down to it, does it really matter if Vvardenfell and Cyrodill are on the same exact scale to each other? They are separate games. It's not like you can travel from one to the other. In addition, Cyrodiil is also oddly shaped -- the 16 miles doesn't mean it's a 4 mile by 4 mile perfect square, whereas Vvardenfell is fairly regularly shaped. And don't forget there are over 200 dungeons and the planes of Oblivion that simply are not counted in that 16 square miles. And finally, if you look at all those maps, the shapes and proportions of the various islands, countries and land masses vary quite a bit. It's not like they are renderings of physical terrain made by professional cartographers, the result of actual survey

Oblivion is a huge, huge game. And even with the landmass being 60% larger, there's still a better distribution of things to do in that landscape as compared to Morrowind's.

Sorry if it looked like we were complaining, we were just a little unclear about your statement and the scale of the games. The scale being smaller won't really make the game any less fun, in fact it will probably make it more fun since there won't be miles of nothing, but some part of me wants a 1:1 scale game that encompasses all of tamriel.. OH MY WOULD THAT OWN SO HARD

 

[belgurdo]

I have realized that one of my weapons contains a "levitate" spell.


I think I just broke the game

 

[Krowley]

in response to the original post.

i'm pretty sure that san andreas is actually bigger in terms of land mass than morrowind... You have to consider that you are using vehicles in that game and you can move much faster. i would say the sizes are very similair when you figure how long it would take going from one side to the other, but i think it would take longer to walk in san andreas.

also,

Morrowind = best rpg of this generation.