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Religion and you.

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I used to be a walking punk rock cliche in high school! I've been an atheist since then, but now I am actually really into religion. Not in practising it, because I don't want to upset the hungry ghost of Karl Marx, of course. I just like learning and reading about and how it has affected humanity and culture. It is also helpful in reference to literature; which is just an extension of humanity and culture!

In conclusion, I was a lame kid back in the day.

EDIT - I also have a really weird neuroticism with trying to understand people. I really want to know what people live for and how they view their existence.
 
Der Kommisar said:
Personally, I think saying that you KNOW there is nothing is just as ignorant as saying that you KNOW there is.
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Most atheists don't have that mindset -- a common misconception by a lot of people. Most of the atheists I have come to know are just down-to-earth, logical people. They find it hard to believe in something there is no proof of. They don't say that they KNOW there is no God.


White Man said:
Same here. As someone with a deep interest in Western art, a solid understanding of the faiths that influenced the relevant civilizations is necessary, just as it's necessary to understand the fragile political situation of Restoration-era England if you want to understand Gulliver's Travels. Without religion, Milton and Dante's work simply could not exist. Neither could Phillip Pullman. Religion is very important, but not for the reasons the masses think it is.
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It's nice to see someone who thinks the same way I do. :) Religion is very fascinating, and it's had a hand in so many things in history... the better understanding you have of religion (and not just any specific one, but the concept of religion itself) the more you can come to appreciate the bits of history, literature, and art that are associated with it.
 
Dan said:
I'm a weak athiest. I was raised Catholic, but extremely poorly. The Catholic church should be embarassed and ashamed that they could confirm someone as poorly educated about their teachings as myself. Or maybe that would make them proud... *shrug* I really, really regret getting confirmed, but I was still working out my lack of faith. I think it's pretty ridiculous that they expect 13/14 year olds to make that kind of decision. I can't stand walking into a church anymore. Vile places.

I've got a pretty big beef with organized religion though, at least western religions. They seem to just promote ignorance. I have far less distaste for the people who are intelligent about their faith and pursue and question it in a personal manner.
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Ha, you shouldn't feel guilty. Like you said, it's the church's problem that they can't figure out that a 13/14 year old will not finalize their ideas about religion for a good number of years afterwards...
 
cloudwalking said:
Most atheists don't have that mindset -- a common misconception by a lot of people. Most of the atheists I have come to know are just down-to-earth, logical people. They find it hard to believe in something there is no proof of. They don't say that they KNOW there is no God.
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a·the·ism
n.
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
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Well that may be true, wearing the lable of athiest comes with those connotations.
 
Making claims about what exists outside the universe is an inherently stupid thing to do.

(weak atheist)
 
hXc_thugg said:
I used to be a walking punk rock cliche in high school! I've been an atheist since then, but now I am actually really into religion. Not in practising it, because I don't want to upset the hungry ghost of Karl Marx, of course. I just like learning and reading about and how it has affected humanity and culture. It is also helpful in reference to literature; which is just an extension of humanity and culture!

In conclusion, I was a lame kid back in the day.
Click to expand...

In college, I was a Mao-praising militant Marxist, well-fed on a diet of Nietzsche, Thomas Hobbes, and Francis Bacon. My RA was an Atlas Shrugged-thumping Objectivist with a penchant for Locke and Adam Smith. We could've served as the premise to a BBC comedy.

I have no idea why your comment made me remember this. He once defaced my Karl Marx poster by glueing a dollar bill to Karl's noggin. The bastard.
 
Well we all technically exist in our own universes. Which gets into boring debates about what defines reality and if we can even tell if something is real.
 
Der Kommisar said:
Well that may be true, wearing the lable of athiest comes with those connotations.
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Right, it does. And that's why there's really 2 definitions to the word, because not everyone fits the exact same mold.

I think the very best definition comes from the site I posted a few posts back:

"What is atheism?"

Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. This absence of belief generally comes about either through deliberate choice, or from an inherent inability to believe religious teachings which seem literally incredible. It is not a lack of belief born out of simple ignorance of religious teachings.

Some atheists go beyond a mere absence of belief in gods: they actively believe that particular gods, or all gods, do not exist. Just lacking belief in Gods is often referred to as the "weak atheist" position; whereas believing that gods do not (or cannot) exist is known as "strong atheism".

Regarding people who have never been exposed to the concept of 'god': Whether they are 'atheists' or not is a matter of debate. Since you're unlikely to meet anyone who has never encountered religion, it's not a very important debate...

It is important, however, to note the difference between the strong and weak atheist positions. "Weak atheism" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. "Strong atheism" is an explicitly held belief that God does not exist. Please do not fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are "strong atheists". There is a qualitative difference in the "strong" and "weak" positions; it's not just a matter of degree.

Some atheists believe in the non-existence of all Gods; others limit their atheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making flat-out denials.

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
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White Man said:
In college, I was a Mao-praising militant Marxist, well-fed on a diet of Nietzsche, Thomas Hobbes, and Francis Bacon. My RA was an Atlas Shrugged-thumping Objectivist with a penchant for Locke and Adam Smith. We could've served as the premise to a BBC comedy.

I have no idea why your comment made me remember this. He once defaced my Karl Marx poster by glueing a dollar bill to Karl's noggin. The bastard.
Click to expand...
I would've watched that comedy, but only if you shagged his gf/bf and he ended up having to go on welfare for some reason.
 
MrAngryFace said:
Well we all technically exist in our own universes. Which gets into boring debates about what defines reality and if we can even tell if something is real.
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I'd say thats more philosophical than religious.
 
Trident said:
Making claims about what exists outside the universe is an inherently stupid thing to do.

(weak atheist)
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Well thats the problem, alot of people believe the phrase "outside the universe" is as absurd as a " square circle" - Its just nonsensical, scientifically speaking. Besides, the Abrahmic religions clearly give their gods a physical power, that is seen and heard in THIS universe. Things like heaven in the sky, and hell below, had to be 'interpreted' differently when we learned that above the sky, is more sky. A sensible atheistic postion is - show me the evidence - and I will make a decision. Prooving a negative is impossible.
 
My father is a preacher and has always been one of the most religious people I know so I was raised to believe Christianity. I ended up becoming more agnostic, but ever since I saw an excorcism (it was at church camp and by a person who kept speaking in differemt languages, and I know pretty well how would could NOT fake it) I have turned back to Christianity. It scared me sh!tless you could say:)

I will admit while I do pray and stuff I don't do most "normal" religious things like go to church or read the Bible on a regular basis. I live in a small town in Oklahoma with practically a church on every corner, and even though my dad has his own I just don't feel good going. I do kind of feel guilty because my dad has been VERY good to me, always been nice and givin me just about everything I could want, but by not being "religious boy" and going to his church I feel bad:(

Anywhoo, I am no religious expert by any means but the reason why despite being made perfect we have evil. Satan (aka Lucifer) betrayed God and took 3/4 of the Angels with him even before God created man, and so after God created man God warned Adam and Eve to not eat from the tree of good and evil, well Satan convinced Eve to eat it and she convinced adam and that was something that they decided of their own free will. God told them not to yet they did, so they (and consequently all of us) suffered for it.

BTW, I broke up with my girlfriend about 2 months ago over religious differences, I was a Baptist, she was a bitch.
 
cloudwalking said:
Some atheists go beyond a mere absence of belief in gods: they actively believe that particular gods, or all gods, do not exist. Just lacking belief in Gods is often referred to as the "weak atheist" position; whereas believing that gods do not (or cannot) exist is known as "strong atheism".
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Well, it makes sense.

I might say Weak Atheism and Agnosticism are almost interchangeable with eachother.
 
DaMan121 said:
Well thats the problem, alot of people believe the phrase "outside the universe" is as absurd as a " square circle" - Its just nonsensical, scientifically speaking.
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Fair play. I wasn't clear enough. We can amend what I said before to be, "making claims about what exists outside the universe, if anything, is an inherently stupid thing to do."

Although there is a difference, as "square circle" is logically incoherent, whereas "outside the universe" isn't. It's just completely unknowable.

DaMan121 said:
A sensible atheistic postion is - show me the evidence - and I will make a decision. Prooving a negative is impossible.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, that's what a weak atheist is.
 
I'm a Reformed Presbyterian.

For some reason when I was about 17 I started getting really religious (mom is a little religious, dad is an atheist). I didn't go to church or anything. I just started studying Christianity a lot. Well, when I was 18 I started going to a Baptist church, and a year later I found myself going to a Baptist Bible college.

I can say it was both a really horrible and a really good time. If anyone has ever seen rules to the infamous Pensacola Christian College, ours were very similar. They are generally mocked by normal people, and rightly so. That was the bad part. The good part las the really cool friendships I made.

Anyway, since I had started studying religious matters at the age of 17 I was always leaning in the Reformed direction. I became good friends at this school with a guy who was also Reformed. After my first year I just couldn't go there anymore because of the theology. So I came back home, starting attending a nice public university and going to a Reformed Presbyterian church in town. That's been the situation for the last year.

The way Christianity conducts itself in America is really digusting to me. I hate the mixing of politics and religion. I'm a big liberal or whatever you want to call it, but I'm never going to mix religion with my political ideology. I would expect the same from people on the other side, but that's obviously asking way too much. At the same time, I guess my opinion of not mixing politics and religion is part of my political ideology, and therefore I am guilty of whatever accusations I'm making. Well, whatever, it makes me sick.
 
MrAngryFace said:
Well we all technically exist in our own universes. Which gets into boring debates about what defines reality and if we can even tell if something is real.
Click to expand...

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
-PKD

I would've watched that comedy, but only if you shagged his gf/bf and he ended up having to go on welfare for some reason.
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His girlfriend was pretty hot, and when we got in our philosophical nerd S&M battles, she'd usually make more concessions to my side, since extreme Randianism is more repugnant than severe Maoism. I could've totally hit below the belt and scored a victory for the people.

I'm still good friends with this RA. We held different viewpoints, but we really became close friends by having arguments over this stuff. i don't believe that either of us had met someone with such a divergent set of ideas along with the will to intelligently defend them. In hindsight, we were both foolish, and we laugh about it today. Our ideas have sort of converged to a point of totally apathy. Ah, mid-20s ennui. Our eventual goal is to start a publishing firm together.

Unfortunately, he is from Long Island, and is thus a total scumbag. People criticize Mao for killing 20 million plus in the cultural revolution; if White Man had a cultural revolution in the US, that figure would be dwarfed.
 
Well reality is well, its there, its just there isnt A reality I dont think. Proof of that is found in this forum. Nintendo fans for example.
 
White Man said:
In college, I was a Mao-praising militant Marxist, well-fed on a diet of Nietzsche, Thomas Hobbes, and Francis Bacon. My RA was an Atlas Shrugged-thumping Objectivist with a penchant for Locke and Adam Smith. We could've served as the premise to a BBC comedy.

I have no idea why your comment made me remember this. He once defaced my Karl Marx poster by glueing a dollar bill to Karl's noggin. The bastard.
Click to expand...

My Sophomore year of high school we had started discussing the Chinese communist revolution in my history class. All I did was talk about how impressive Mao Zedong was and how Americans have such a negative view of communism. I think my teacher thought there was something wrong with me.
 
Ive been raised up as a muslim. Both my parents are muslim so Ive grown up as one myself, although Im not a very good example of one. I drink and I dont pray apart on fridays but apart from those rules theres not much I can think of that I dont really obey. As a child I used to listen to everything my parents would tell me about islam and I would consider that a fact but over the last few years thats changed quite a bit. There are a lot of things that I question about my religion and others but I still believe in God. Its probably something thats been drilled into my head, but at the same time I cant really think that this whole world was created by the big bang, believing that God made it all seems to make more sense to me really.
 
Synbios459 said:
Anywhoo, I am no religious expert by any means but the reason why despite being made perfect we have evil. Satan (aka Lucifer) betrayed God and took 3/4 of the Angels with him even before God created man, and so after God created man God warned Adam and Eve to not eat from the tree of good and evil, well Satan convinced Eve to eat it and she convinced adam and that was something that they decided of their own free will. God told them not to yet they did, so they (and consequently all of us) suffered for it.
Click to expand...


I am pretty sure that Luficer is not Satan, it's just a misconception. The Bible has never explicitedly stated that Lucifer and Satan are even the same angel. The Angel who became the adversary against God also didn't took 3/4 of the Angels with him, it was a third of the Angels of heaven. And finally, the snake that trick Adam into eating the apple nas never been identified as Satan in any text.

I'm an agnostic with some buddhist belief by the way.
 
I'm terribly drunk but all I know is:

and everything just feels like rain
the road we're on, the things we crave
and everything just feels like rain
the nights i sleep, what's left to dream
when everything feels like rain

This is for the OP, obviously.
 
Religion or general spirituality? There is a difference. The former is the world's oldest form of team sport and psychological dominance.
 
I am an Athiest but have a problem with being called an athiest, I dont see why I should be labelled because I dont share a religious view point.
I was brought up Roman Catholic by my parents (mother really). She goes to church most weeks but never ever asks me to go anymore because she respects my own, and other people beliefs. I'm a 'non-believer' as a result of many factors (mostly insignificant on there own, but added up are quite substantial) and I firmly feel deep down that this is all there is and we must make the best of it.
 
I hold the belief that it's santa/toothfairy/easter bunny for grown ups.
 
I'm an atheist. Believing in a god would probably be nice, but would require a level of intellectual dishonesty I'm not ready to reach just yet.
 
I'm a bit surprised... most threads dealing with religion are slightly more caustic that this one, and why I tend to stay out of them...

Roman Catholic here, and quite proud of it.

(Remind me to bug the athiests about the nature of morality and ethics at some point.)
 
DavidDayton said:
(Remind me to bug the athiests about the nature of morality and ethics at some point.)
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why would would the nature of morality and ethics bother an atheist?
 
I'm of the opinion that most people aren't capable of responsibly partaking in taking religion seriously. The catch 22 being that most people who would be capable of responsibly taking religion seriously are the ones who wouldn't be able to be all that serious about religion.
 
I am an atheist.
When I was younger, I believed that it was my obligation to convince others of my opinion. I thought of religion as the ultimate evil in human history and Marilyn Manson was my favourite artist. :lol
Nowadays, my stance on religion is more reconciliatory. I wouldn't use the word "opium" to describe it, as I think placebo fits much better.
Who am I to take this away from anyone?
 
how old is the universe according to christians?
 
I was born into Catholicism.

I've never been overly offended by my religion or felt the need to backlash against it the way some people do. I find mass boring, and I never really go and practice or anything... but when I have, I've found myself thinking - this could be so much better. Does monotone warbling old women really do justice to God if he's up there looking down? I'm sure he doesn't mind, but I just think it could be better/more-interesting/energetic. I have a friend who stopped a preacher on the street and got into a huge theological argument which basically involved him telling the preacher to fuck off and shut up. I remember standing there and thinking - why? I'm not fond of street preaching myself, but I just walk on and ignore it. Why was he so offended by it? I just couldn't get it.

I am open minded. I don't believe anything per se, except that the origins of this universe and any over-arching reason for it is probably so massive its incomprehensible. I don't believe that anything of human creation could explain it - religion, science, anything -

I hate all forms of extremism. Religious-right are a terrifying plague on this Earth.
 
catfish said:
how old is the universe according to christians?
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dr%20evil%20pinky.jpg

1 Million years!


AFAIK, there are conservative christians who add the age of the people mentioned in the bible and come to the conclusion of less than 10,000 years but there are also those who share the scientific estimate of 13 billion years.
 
I'm with Gene Roddenberry on this one:-

"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will -- and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain." (Gene Roddenberry)
 
Athiest.

You know while we're having a religion thread I may as well bring this up, something thats been annoying me for a while. Now let me say that while I respect the right of any individual to practice their religion of choice there are some people that just piss me off.

White people that loudly declare that they are buddhist at every possible opportunity and insist on sharing with everyone who doesn't give a fuck. There are a few in my classes at university, one bitch in particular that just brings every single thing in a conversation back to herself and the fact that she is buddhist.

Its entirley transparent that she's conviced that it makes her "hip and cool" and that she thinks she's so much more enlightened than the rest of us.

Seriously, every second sentance out of her mouth starts with the words "well i'm a buddhist so...blah blah blah". At totally innapropriate times, in the middle of tutorials that have NOTHING to do with the subject, etc.

Very annoying.

I'm sure there are white buddhists out there not like this, the fact that i don't see them is because they arn't the sort of people who feel they need to DECLARE IT ALL THE TIME.
Its probably a lot like they way we pay attention to the fundamentalist nutjob christians because they're so vocal and we ignore the ones who approach it in a personally sensible and realistic way.
 
Zensetsu said:
Athiest.

You know while we're having a religion thread I may as well bring this up, something thats been annoying me for a while. Now let me say that while I respect the right of any individual to practice their religion of choice there are some people that just piss me off.

White people that loudly declare that they are buddhist at every possible opportunity and insist on sharing with everyone who doesn't give a fuck. There are a few in my classes at university, one bitch in particular that just brings every single thing in a conversation back to herself and the fact that she is buddhist.

Its entirley transparent that she's conviced that it makes her "hip and cool" and that she thinks she's so much more enlightened than the rest of us.

Seriously, every second sentance out of her mouth starts with the words "well i'm a buddhist so...blah blah blah". At totally innapropriate times, in the middle of tutorials that have NOTHING to do with the subject, etc.

Very annoying.
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yeah, I hate those people. I knew a person like that, but it wasn't just religion. just everything, like I would say, "yeah my friend lost his job the other day..." and begin to tell a story about it and she would interject very loudly with "OH, THATS LIKE my friend, he lives In California (we are from NZ and she was 18 and of the belief that california was inherently cool because of I dunno, music or ads or tv or somthing) and he has a job that pays 300 000 bucks a year"

and then she would end it there, which, if you think about it, isn't in the slightest like my friend who lost his job at all. I really fucking hated that.

/sidetracked.
 
My case with religion might be quite different than most of you...

I was raised a muslim, and my father has always been pretty religious, and I live in a country where Islam is the official religion, it's taught in schools, in mosques, it's not uncommon to hear Quran recordings playing at high volume from anywhere, and nobody ever dares to publicly object to that.

I used to be religious when I was a kid, used to pray all the time and do everything, but my faith kept getting weaker as I grew older, and it probably hit rock bottom when I watched Carl Sagan's Cosmos (don't laugh! :lol), and started understanding the theory of evolution and thinking about everything from a scientific point of view.

I'd say I'm probably an atheist now, but I find it very difficult to accept and admit, I often feel VERY guilty and bad about it, but I can't help it... It really sucks, like whenever my friends say anything religious I always say something like "It's all bullshit" or "It doesn't exist" or "there's no heaven or afterlife", and I *always* feel terrible immediately afterwards, like I just committed the ultimate sin and I'm going to hell for it :(

I guess I'm stuck in the "What IF" zone.

It also sucks living among a society where 80% the population is muslim and religious, or at least in my work environment, their conversations are often religion-influenced and I have to "play along"... It would be social suicide to admit that you are an atheist to people you're not very close in this society, I believe it's even illegal or someshit.

So what am I?
 
Funniest thing about religious nuts is how poorly they actually think of god himself. Take the Muslim extreamists branding everyone non-Muslim a infidel whose going to burn on the shores of hell for worshipping 'god' under a different name.

"Ahh Christopher. Well I see you spent your life as a good person, you cared for your friends and relatives, lead a clean, crime free life and worshipped me with all your heart....unfortuantly, technically, I can't let you into heaven because you called me God instead of my real, proper name of Allah. So I'm afraid I'm going to have to send you to hell instead where you'll spend the rest of eterninty having your heart violently and painfully ripped out just as your about to beat the boss on an endless loop in Enclave (light side - gotta love my irony right!? haha). Sorry about that Chris. But rules are rules!"

(opens trapdoor)
 
Straightballin said:
Put it this way science cannot explain the reason why were here. Only one thing can and thats religon if you belive in it.
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Very poor reason to believe in religion. You have to be fucking stupid or extremely desperate if you choose to believe most religions' explanation of why we're here.

NO OFFENSE.
 
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