Report: Valve made 17B~ in revenue this year. With 336 employees. “One of the most efficient businesses of all time.”

StreetsofBeige said:
The avg pay might be $1.3M/person, but how much of that is Gabe?

$1.3M per person x 336 people = $441M in wages.

For example, If Gabe took $300M of that leaving $141M, divided out that still leaves $420k/person. Still a shit load, but his taken salary will affect it.

But who knows. Maybe he takes zero wages and just lives off his ownership shares. Similar to Steve Jobs taking $1 salary and got the rest in other comp.
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At $17B revenue, and assuming it's mostly 30% cuts. That leave about $5.1B in net revenue. Some of that will be VR Hardware, but for sake of argument let's just use $5B flat.

$5B net revenue
Less $441M in wages
Less xxxx all operational costs (anyone have a guess what all their website and server stuff would cost?)
Less xxxx marketing
---------------------------------------
= xxxx Est profits before taxes
= xxxx Est profits after taxes

Who knows, they are probably clearing maybe $2.5-3B net profit?
 
StreetsofBeige said:
At $17B revenue, and assuming it's mostly 30% cuts. That leave about $5.1B in net revenue. Some of that will be VR Hardware, but for sake of argument let's just use $5B flat.

$5B net revenue
Less $441M in wages
Less xxxx all operational costs (anyone have a guess what all their website and server stuff would cost?)
Less xxxx marketing
---------------------------------------
= xxxx Est profits before taxes
= xxxx Est profits after taxes

Who knows, they are probably clearing maybe $2.5-3B net profit?
Click to expand...
I say that it's pretty good estimate
 
IntentionalPun said:
Honestly I eventually came to the opinion Valve is kind of gross. Instead of using that revenue to create potentially thousands of jobs they've just hoarded it all with such a small amount of people. We all think of corporations as the bad guys but a business with that much revenue staying so small is not providing to society what a corporation with the same revenue would.
Click to expand...
Valve has no obligation to provide you or society with anything, ever. Their only obligation is to their customers and judging by how successful they are , I'd say their customers are satisfied.
 
jshackles said:
Granted, it's been quite some time since I put myself out there in an attempt - but the process was very... I dunno, fluid(?). Very strange.

The way the company is set up, nobody is really in charge of anything - unless they want to be. Everything is very territorial and clique-ish. Where in a typical company you'd be brought on to a particular department (for example, I wanted to work on Steam's back-end systems / IT infrastructure as well as UX and UI) but at Valve each one of those things was overseen by either a single person or small group of people who considered that "their thing". So you automatically come in as "the outsider" or "that guy who thinks he can do my job, but better" - and these are the people who have a say in whether someone gets hired. Sometimes these people or departments wouldn't exactly work together, but they'd come together to try and decide if I was someone that should be hired.

There was also an HR-esque department that had a say in all the hiring decisions, and these were (in my experience) very non-technical people - so again you're swimming upstream. In my experience, the technical teams didn't exactly get along with the HR team either, and it made things really awkward. They called me in for "meetings" that were part job interview, part hang session, and part "we're just looking to see if you'd be a good fit around here". They let me know on several occasions that even if I was great at doing the stuff I wanted to do, since there were no bosses and no rules they have people all the time that come in to do a certain task but then end up spinning off their own department or project or thing - so everyone they hired had to have that kind of "Valve DNA". I met a lot of people who worked there for less than two years, and outside a handful of "rock stars" it turned out they had quite a bit of turnover. Stability in the job seemed pretty rare.

It felt kind of like getting picked for teams in sports in high school. Except the teams are already full, they already have their own way of winning every game, and they don't really want new players. You show up to the line-up, and sometimes they pick one person and then tell everyone else to scram. Sometimes they just tell everyone to scram. Sometimes they pick the weirdo in the corner that nobody likes, and you'll never know why.

Valve is "always hiring" in the sense that if you really do have what it takes to fit into their weird work culture (while having top-notch skills in your area of expertise) then you can join their club. For me, the more I interacted with the people there, the more I realized that I'm too much of a straight shooter and that I'm not made for kissing ass to people who were obviously wrong about things. That was my real rub with Valve, it's like they had success despite themselves - and it gave them the wrong ideas about what people wanted out of their platform. It kind of stung at the time, but it turns out in hindsight that they were absolutely right about me not being a good fit for the place. Guess we can't all be millionaires.

That being said, they've continued to improve their platform and have brought a lot of good ideas to life in the last almost decade since my experiences with them. And, they do genuinely seem to care about things that other platforms (cough cough Epic) seem to ignore or think aren't important. Obviously at lot has taken place there, and they've finally got good people or put together a good team that took them in the direction I was hoping to steer them way back when.
Click to expand...
Almost sounds like how dev studios were in the 80s and 90s. Just kept it going, instead of common corporate conformity.

Thanks for sharing.
 
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jshackles said:
Granted, it's been quite some time since I put myself out there in an attempt - but the process was very... I dunno, fluid(?). Very strange.

The way the company is set up, nobody is really in charge of anything - unless they want to be. Everything is very territorial and clique-ish. Where in a typical company you'd be brought on to a particular department (for example, I wanted to work on Steam's back-end systems / IT infrastructure as well as UX and UI) but at Valve each one of those things was overseen by either a single person or small group of people who considered that "their thing". So you automatically come in as "the outsider" or "that guy who thinks he can do my job, but better" - and these are the people who have a say in whether someone gets hired. Sometimes these people or departments wouldn't exactly work together, but they'd come together to try and decide if I was someone that should be hired.

There was also an HR-esque department that had a say in all the hiring decisions, and these were (in my experience) very non-technical people - so again you're swimming upstream. In my experience, the technical teams didn't exactly get along with the HR team either, and it made things really awkward. They called me in for "meetings" that were part job interview, part hang session, and part "we're just looking to see if you'd be a good fit around here". They let me know on several occasions that even if I was great at doing the stuff I wanted to do, since there were no bosses and no rules they have people all the time that come in to do a certain task but then end up spinning off their own department or project or thing - so everyone they hired had to have that kind of "Valve DNA". I met a lot of people who worked there for less than two years, and outside a handful of "rock stars" it turned out they had quite a bit of turnover. Stability in the job seemed pretty rare.

It felt kind of like getting picked for teams in sports in high school. Except the teams are already full, they already have their own way of winning every game, and they don't really want new players. You show up to the line-up, and sometimes they pick one person and then tell everyone else to scram. Sometimes they just tell everyone to scram. Sometimes they pick the weirdo in the corner that nobody likes, and you'll never know why.

Valve is "always hiring" in the sense that if you really do have what it takes to fit into their weird work culture (while having top-notch skills in your area of expertise) then you can join their club. For me, the more I interacted with the people there, the more I realized that I'm too much of a straight shooter and that I'm not made for kissing ass to people who were obviously wrong about things. That was my real rub with Valve, it's like they had success despite themselves - and it gave them the wrong ideas about what people wanted out of their platform. It kind of stung at the time, but it turns out in hindsight that they were absolutely right about me not being a good fit for the place. Guess we can't all be millionaires.

That being said, they've continued to improve their platform and have brought a lot of good ideas to life in the last almost decade since my experiences with them. And, they do genuinely seem to care about things that other platforms (cough cough Epic) seem to ignore or think aren't important. Obviously at lot has taken place there, and they've finally got good people or put together a good team that took them in the direction I was hoping to steer them way back when.
Click to expand...

That's crazy. If anyone deserves a job there it's you. I have been using enhanced Steam for so long at this point that I forget what it's like without it when I look at stuff directly in the client.

How long ago was that? I remember you from CAG fucking ages ago.
 
Mengy said:
That's an odd take. Sounds like you are jealous of those who do work for Valve and upset because Valve doesn't grow and hire more people? 🤔

Its wise on their part to stay private and small, and their revenue is a testament to the value they DO provide to society.

Sounds like some people in this thread simply hate others who are successful?
Click to expand...
That's not his point though.

They clearly care about their customers.

But if they cared about their customers enough they could afford to fund actual AAA games that take creative risks and move the industry forward, to ensure there are more great games and amazing experiences for gamers to enjoy.

Hell they could bankroll exclusive games and far more experimental indie games.

They could do all sorts of amazing things to enhance gaming for their core customers but they don't.

They grow and grow and grow and don't really give much back to either the developers they rent seek off of (who take all the risk and only benefit from from 70% less their own publisher's cuts) or to the players that sit as the entire foundation to their business overall.

It is at least a little gross that we're all largely ok with this.
 
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vkbest said:
PSN is not going to be a competitor for the monopoly Steam it is. Also, a PC can be a console, it's simply software.
Click to expand...
If Sony wants to bring their store in PC, they will do it. If Valve wants to bring their store to PlayStation, they can't because Sony doesn't allows them to do so. Sony has the monopoly of game sales in PS, Steam doesn't have it in PC.

Steam isn't a monopoly, because anybody can create their own gaming store in PC, there are dozens. League or Legends and the other Riot games, Fortnite and the other Epic games, Roblox, the chinese, lus CD Projekt/EA/Ubi/MS/etc stores. There's a ton outside Steam. I mean, Roblox even happens to haev more players than Steam.

If Sony makes their PC store a seamless expansion of their console PSN, it will be bigger than Steam.

Humdinger said:
I'm surprised to hear they only have 336 employees. Compare to MS's Xbox division, which has 20,000 employees, or Sony's Playstation, which has 12,000.

Not that those are equivalent, I understand. Valve doesn't develop games (much). They just do whatever they do behind the scenes to make Steam run.
Click to expand...
The difference is that Valve mostly just runs a store. The other two make consoles and have a ton of game development teams

asdasdasdbb said:
Course they are. And it's really not that much different in behavior. PC is just further along on the GAAS train than Sony is.
Click to expand...
No, the popularity of PS/home consoles and PC is very different per country. Same goes with top game genres and even if less different, there's a notable difference in age ranges and gender distribution.

They are pretty different markets with pretty different behavior. Not just in how big GaaS percentually are in each place.
 
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yurinka said:
If Sony makes their PC store a seamless expansion of their console PSN, it will be bigger than Steam.
Click to expand...
What do you mean bigger?

Cause the number we know right now is:
154 million Steam
vs
119 million PSN

Are you telling me that Sony can succeed on the PC with their own store and actually be bigger than Steam?

Despite all the flaws of Phill, he as right and he talked about digital libraries. I can't see anyone, for any reason, buying games on any other platform IF its available on steam. Do you think SONY titles are enough to make people shift?
 
lets us all ignore the chilldren exploiring casino , its ok we allow this because of steam, as long its not sony.
 
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This is so depressing. All this revenue wasted on a fucking glorified retail store. Mother fuckers should be making games but nope. Should be making high end steam boxes or steam machines, but nope. Treating its fanbase with contempt. Over 20 years without Half Life 3.

We talk about evil corporations, greedy execs like Jimbo, Phil Spencer and Kotick, but they answer to their CEOs who answer to the shareholders. Valve dont answer to nobody and a decent storefront is the best they can do for their most loyal fanbase. 8GB GPU thats less powerful than the ps5 six years after the gen started. What a fucking joke. Garbage company.
 
BennyBlanco said:
That's crazy. If anyone deserves a job there it's you. I have been using enhanced Steam for so long at this point that I forget what it's like without it when I look at stuff directly in the client.

How long ago was that? I remember you from CAG fucking ages ago.
Click to expand...
Thanks man! Yeah, this was circa 2016 or so - like I said it's been a minute, and my own personal experience may not be reflective of the way things are these days.

Also, these days you can run Enhanced Augmented Steam in the client with the open source projects Millennium and Extendium:

Extendium - Millennium

steambrew.app steambrew.app

:messenger_sunglasses:
 
Rubim said:
What do you mean bigger?

Cause the number we know right now is:
154 million Steam
vs
119 million PSN

Are you telling me that Sony can succeed on the PC with their own store and actually be bigger than Steam?

Despite all the flaws of Phill, he as right and he talked about digital libraries. I can't see anyone, for any reason, buying games on any other platform IF its available on steam. Do you think SONY titles are enough to make people shift?
Click to expand...
If sony does decide they want a pc storefront, i am not sure if their goal would be to be bigger than steam.

But i also don't really buy the digital libraries argument. Most people don't use BC, they tend to play newer games, and somehow the digital library doesn't explain why people don't mind moving to pc gaming.

edit: i should have paid closer attention that this is what the other guy was saying.
 
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Bernkastel said:
And charging 1200$ for Magnus to your loyal customers is okay? Or increasing the already inflated price of Series consoles citing RAM price hike.
Click to expand...
Arguing ghosts over here. I don't think anyone said anything to this effect. Also, we don't have a spec sheet for Magnus at this point to judge the value proposition.
 
Durin said:
I mean it's been openly said Gabe is pretty much retired from Valve day to day, but he owns the majority of the company.
Click to expand...
Good to know, every time I inquire, I am told he is still actively involved. I am not sure if he was retired at the Steam Deck launch, but he was actively involved in promoting that.
 
DR3AM said:
So let's fuck our loyal customers and charge the $750+ for a 5 years old specs PC
Click to expand...
The loyal cusotmers are clever enough to not pay for online gaming and cloud saves, i bet they are also clever enough to not buy overpriced hardware.
lh032 said:
lets us all ignore the chilldren exploiring casino , its ok we allow this because of steam, as long its not sony.
Click to expand...
I thoguht Sony also profits from gambling-like mechanics.
 
Sorcerer said:
Good to know, every time I inquire, I am told he is still actively involved. I am not sure if he was retired at the Steam Deck launch, but he was actively involved in promoting that.
Click to expand...

He might have times where he's more involved, or certain projects maybe...but I think the dude can just do whatever he wants. At the very least, he's not a 9-5 guy at Valve anymore.
 
DrFigs said:
If sony does decide they want a pc storefront, i am not sure if their goal would be to be bigger than steam.

But i also don't really buy the digital libraries argument. Most people don't use BC, they tend to play newer games, and somehow the digital library doesn't explain why people don't mind moving to pc gaming.

edit: i should have paid closer attention that this is what the other guy was saying.
Click to expand...
It loses a bit of sense if you play consoles, it makes more sense if you are on PC.
But the argument about moving to pc gaming is a bit weird, it was more in the sense of XBOX vs PS. People don't complain about moving stores when going to Nintendo for example.

Regardless, i dont think any launcher can compete with steam atm, they have too much QOL.
 
ReasonBeing said:
Arguing ghosts over here. I don't think anyone said anything to this effect. Also, we don't have a spec sheet for Magnus at this point to judge the value proposition.
Click to expand...
While I did make the post about Steambox costing 750 $ because I saw it on twitter. How do you have no issue with DR3AM DR3AM using it to console war but you have issue with me replying to him with Kepler's prediction? I was literally quoting Kepler there and you have a issue with that?
 
Wall Street looks at this kind of stuff and drools. Why can't other companies operate with 300 people and have obscene profits!?
 
Is it really efficient, though? I mean, sure, they're profitable, but it's hard not to be when they sit on their ass and sell product with an absolute bare minimum of effort. I mean, should we really be praising people for sitting back and watching money roll in, because they have a guaranteed revenue source?

There's still seriously stupid problems baked into the Steam client itself which have not been addressed for more than a decade now. A decade. And of course there's shit they do on purpose, which sucks, like forced updates.

And let's not forget that everything you buy from them is a glorified rental, because you need to phone home eventually.

Rant over... I guess.
 
RCX said:
Are they hiring?

I could be the janitor or teaboy
Click to expand...
They are only looking for Steam Machine warriors. Especially sought after are former Xbox or PlayStation warriors with years of experience.

Working hours: 24/7
Vacation: Which part of 24/7 did you not understand?
Work location: Home Office
Pay: You get nothing
Social status: You will be laughed at or pitied
Health insurance: None, but a visit to a psychiatrist is strongly recommended
 
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It's happened guys, steam became too big and too good and it became cool to hate on it now. It's already getting bad but we're gonna see it more and more. This happens to everyhing.
 
Walliwallipaloo said:
Is it really efficient, though? I mean, sure, they're profitable, but it's hard not to be when they sit on their ass and sell product with an absolute bare minimum of effort. I mean, should we really be praising people for sitting back and watching money roll in, because they have a guaranteed revenue source?

There's still seriously stupid problems baked into the Steam client itself which have not been addressed for more than a decade now. A decade. And of course there's shit they do on purpose, which sucks, like forced updates.

And let's not forget that everything you buy from them is a glorified rental, because you need to phone home eventually.

Rant over... I guess.
Click to expand...
What do you think efficiency means?

They're making 17B a year and according to you, by sitting on their assess and do the absolute bare minimum effort. Nothing fits the definition of efficient better than that.
 
Brakum said:
What do you think efficiency means?

They're making 17B a year and according to you, by sitting on their assess and do the absolute bare minimum effort. Nothing fits the definition of efficient better than that.
Click to expand...
How efficient is that, really? I'd say 300+ employees sitting and doing fuck-all is rather inefficient, no matter the scale. I mean, in pure business terms.

Not that I personally think that way, mind.

And the rest of that was just me bitching. Which is obvious.

Pay: You get nothing
Click to expand...
Naw, you at least get Steam Points, f'sure. And card drops!
 
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Bernkastel said:
While I did make the post about Steambox costing 750 $ because I saw it on twitter. How do you have no issue with DR3AM DR3AM using it to console war but you have issue with me replying to him with Kepler's prediction? I was literally quoting Kepler there and you have a issue with that?
Click to expand...
I don't have time to read every post by DR3AM DR3AM but them rejecting the value proposition at an assumed price is not console warring, that's them just stating their perspective on what they believe is being offered. More importantly, it is at least somewhat on topic, being that it is a Valve device he is referring to.
 
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ReasonBeing said:
I don't have time to read every post by DR3AM DR3AM but them rejecting the value proposition at an assumed price is not console warring, that's them just stating their perspective on what they believe is being offered. More importantly, it is at least somewhat on topic, being that it is a Valve device he is referring to.
Click to expand...
ok so it is okay to console war about steambox rumoured price but if I reply with a quote from a reliable leaker like Kepler on the rumored price of Magnus its wrong? You fanboys are something else.
 
DeltaPolarBear said:
You told them to create jobs with their profits but with no regard to if those jobs were NEEDED, So you are forcing them to hire people to do bullshit jobs because you want their money.
Click to expand...
Oh those jobs are definitely needed when considering the state of some of their games, but that 9th yacht isn't going to buy itself so ... ya know ...
 
Walliwallipaloo said:
How efficient is that, really? I'd say 300+ employees sitting and doing fuck-all is rather inefficient, no matter the scale. I mean, in pure business terms.

Not that I personally think that way, mind.

And the rest of that was just me bitching. Which is obvious.
Click to expand...
They're updating the Steam main, SteamDeck specific improvements, SteamOS, working on 3 new product launches, plus the backend required for all that which includes Steam Input (rivalled only by the subscription based ReWASD) and of course everything behind Proton that has single handedly made an entire OS viable.

Then you add in the stuff that I'm not interested in like their GAAS, plus whatever they're working on outside of the public eye like HL3.

That's a lot for a company that does fuck all
 
yurinka said:
If Sony makes their PC store a seamless expansion of their console PSN, it will be bigger than Steam
Click to expand...

Now THIS is the most delusional post I've ever read in here.

NeoGAF is an echo chamber where the majority agrees that Sony makes the best products since sliced bread.

There is literally zero reason that Sonys store should be bigger than Steam.
Everyone who tried to compete with Steam has failed, and even pc players are steam fans.

Epic Games failed. Microsoft failed. Ea failed, Ubisoft failed.
Gog, which is seen as a great store like steam, are behind steam alot.

There are no room for more stores. Pc players don't care, they don't want to spread out their games on several stores.
A Sony store would add nothing to the pc scene which isn't already there. There's no loyalty to anything other than steam, and Sonys games would fail hard if they weren't on Steam.
 
The vibes that bitter haters like DR3AM DR3AM , _Ex_ _Ex_ , Crunchbox Crunchbox , EverydayBeast EverydayBeast brings into this thread:

acytbk.jpg


There's a reason valve has this popularity.

Theres no denying that it is thanks to them being first on pc to have their own store.
Because people were there day one, they have their entire library on Steam.
Plenty of other stores have tried to compete, and they have all failed.

Epic Games have even tried to use their Fortnite money to gain customers by giving out new games, and 99 percent of people who uses the epic Games store are using the launcher to launch Fortnite, and to log in and claim free games every Thursday.

The main reason gog can compete with Steam is because they cater to different markets.
Steam is where you go to play modern games, and gog are for old games, or Indies. At least that is my preference, and I feel like I see the pattern of plenty of other people does as well.

Ubisoft and EA had their own stores for years after pulling their franchises from Steam, and after many years they now brought them back, because they just sell alot better on steam.

Microsoft always had a horrendous store on pc which is crazy since it's their own OS.
The only reason it's being used on pc is because of game Pass and play anywhere titles.

There's a huge player base that completely ignores big games if they don't arrive on steam. Alan Wake 2 allegedly suffered alot from being an epic exclusive.
 
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The_Mike said:
The vibes that bitter haters like tanners tanners , DR3AM DR3AM , _Ex_ _Ex_ , Crunchbox Crunchbox , EverydayBeast EverydayBeast brings into this thread:

acytbk.jpg


There's a reason valve has this popularity.

Theres no denying that it is thanks to them being first on pc to have their own store.
Because people were there day one, they have their entire library on Steam.
Plenty of other stores have tried to compete, and they have all failed.

Epic Games have even tried to use their Fortnite money to gain customers by giving out new games, and 99 percent of people who uses the epic Games store are using the launcher to launch Fortnite, and to log in and claim free games every Thursday.

The main reason gog can compete with Steam is because they cater to different markets.
Steam is where you go to play modern games, and gog are for old games, or Indies. At least that is my preference, and I feel like I see the pattern of plenty of other people does as well.

Ubisoft and EA had their own stores for years after pulling their franchises from Steam, and after many years they now brought them back, because they just sell alot better on steam.

Microsoft always had a horrendous store on pc which is crazy since it's their own OS.
The only reason it's being used on pc is because of game Pass and play anywhere titles.

There's a huge player base that completely ignores big games if they don't arrive on steam. Alan Wake 2 allegedly suffered alot from being an epic exclusive.
Click to expand...
wot dude
I don't think i showed any hate on Value or Steam
least in mine language "respect the customer" is not a slang or sarcastic word
 
Privately owned and traded companies are a good idea.

We've seen what the public versions are capable of.

Congrats to Valve.

Now. Please make some cool games to play and offering a great platform service. :)
 
The_Mike said:
Now THIS is the most delusional post I've ever read in here.

NeoGAF is an echo chamber where the majority agrees that Sony makes the best products since sliced bread.

There is literally zero reason that Sonys store should be bigger than Steam.
Everyone who tried to compete with Steam has failed, and even pc players are steam fans.

Epic Games failed. Microsoft failed. Ea failed, Ubisoft failed.
Gog, which is seen as a great store like steam, are behind steam alot.

There are no room for more stores. Pc players don't care, they don't want to spread out their games on several stores.
A Sony store would add nothing to the pc scene which isn't already there. There's no loyalty to anything other than steam, and Sonys games would fail hard if they weren't on Steam.
Click to expand...
Don't discourage them, I really want Sony to launch a PC store for the laughs 😂
 
zombrex said:
Right now they are an excellent company but the big question is what happens when Gabe is no longer around. That is what people should fear.
Click to expand...
If Gabe is somewhat retired from active duty at the company, then whatever plan they have in place when Gabe is totally gone, are pretty much already in place or being ironed out as we speak. His family will inherit the company, and things will go on as usual I imagine. It seems like the employee's sort of have a leadership role in the company as well so to speak, at least internally. It seems to be what the teams wish to pursue at any given time is what drives the company outside the storefront.
 
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