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Retard Pack > Premium Pack

I'd say the mainstream Madden gamer already has their one copy for 2005.

Madden is just one good example of a popular mainstream game that will make no discernable use of the HDD. And regardless of how many people have already purchased Madden this year Madden 360 is still going to be one of the top selling games for the system. You could insert any popular mainstream game in it's place.


Unfortunately the retard pack isn't going to be able to play his existing version of Madden. Of course he probably doesn't even care cause he has the PS2 version of Madden anyway.
 

As someone on this message board pointed out, when the mainstream consumer picks up Madden for his core Xbox 360 console it's going to play perfectly fine on the core console, he's going to be able to log onto Xbox Live with the free silver membership and download all of his roster updates at no cost, and he's never going to see any reason why he needs a HDD. Now some of you might say "that's great, see the Xbox 360 is giving people choice and catering to everyone's needs," but you're forgetting something. That Madden gamer, he represents the majority. We the people who see value in the HDD and the potential it opens up for games and functionality of the console represent the minority. The mainstream "Madden gamer" outnumbers us 10:1 and so the HDD may just be here at launch to just lead us the faithful hardcore gamers into the next-gen with Xbox 360. Whether the HDD will be well supported by game developers over the Xbox 360's life is uncertain and completely depends upon what the mainstream gamer chooses. Just as the Duke controller was slowly phased out of the market so too may the HDD, eventually. As I pointed out before it doesn't really matter what percentage of Xbox 360 owners buy a HDD system at the launch of the console, what really matters is what percentage end up having a HDD system by the end of the generation.
Sticky this.
 
PhatSaqs said:
Holla.

Seriously, everyone is going so anal over this, I'm sure when the PS3's price is announced, the same shit is going to happen. Oh well - go figure; this is Gaming Age after all - the forum for idiots.
 
border said:
On top of that, your system face will not have all that tacky "Pimp My Ride" chrome on the faceplate and drive tray (which, as I understand can't be removed by exchanging the faceplate).

Does it come with flames down the sides, and a pinstripe?
 
Excelion said:
I know composite hide the jaggies/shimmers on your PS2 games, but really, that's not an option for a gamer. And AFAIK, Xbox360 isn't compatible with Xbox1 cables.

Actually it's the other way around, Component removes the jaggies and shimmer.
Composite only smothens up the image on those walmart $100 specials.
 
Agent Icebeezy said:
I play online, I know the levels will be there to download. Ill be ready
Why should a developer create levels for download and purchase when only some tiny percentage of the userbase could even store them? Yeah it might work for a game like Halo where there's millions of people that bought the game, but if your title sold more modestly why should you waste your time? The whole "demos, music, downloads" thing on LIVE gets totally borked if only a few hardcore folk pick up the HDD. Creating pre-release demos is generally a hassle for developers, so if they can't be guaranteed a lot of exposure they will be less likely to do that as well.
 
MidgarBlowedUp said:
Actually it's the other way around, Component removes the jaggies and shimmer.
Composite only smothens up the image on those walmart $100 specials.

Progressive scan doesn't remove jaggies.
 
---- said:
Teh Retard: http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6527/xbox360pack29if2rp.jpg

Looking at PS2 vs. Xbox why wouldn't you expect the core system to become the eventual standard Xbox 360?

The 85/15 launch breakdown should give you early adopters no comfort. Remember that the original Duke controller was in 100% of the initial Xbox systems sold (100/0 breakdown) and yet the mainstream consumers chose the controller-S in the end. The controller-S became the standard Xbox controller even though the Duke was the only controller on the market for the first year. The way that MS initially distributed the system didn't influence or control what the mainstream consumer eventually chose. In a similar way the Xbox core system with wired controller and no HDD very well may become the default standard Xbox over this generation. And why wouldn't it? Since when did the mainstream consumer care about "value?" The Xbox was a better value than the PS2 and yet the mainstream chose PS2 over Xbox by a huge margin.


-Did the mainstream consumer care that the Xbox had a HDD standard and the PS2 didn't?

-Did the mainstream consumer care that the Xbox could load games much faster than the PS2?

-Did they care that you could download massive level expansions for the Xbox games and you couldn't for PS2?

-Did they care that Xbox games could stream data off the HDD to allow for larger worlds and store greater details on the HDD to remember the location of people and items in those worlds?

-Did the mainstream consumer care about added expenses like having to buy a crappy memory card for the PS2?

-Did the mainstream consumer care about having only 2 controller ports by default?


No!
So why wouldn't you expect the core system to eventually become the default standard Xbox 360?

As someone on this message board pointed out, when the mainstream consumer picks up Madden for his core Xbox 360 console it's going to play perfectly fine on the core console, he's going to be able to log onto Xbox Live with the free silver membership and download all of his roster updates at no cost, and he's never going to see any reason why he needs a HDD. Now some of you might say "that's great, see the Xbox 360 is giving people choice and catering to everyone's needs," but you're forgetting something. That Madden gamer, he represents the majority. We the people who see value in the HDD and the potential it opens up for games and functionality of the console represent the minority. The mainstream "Madden gamer" outnumbers us 10:1 and so the HDD may just be here at launch to just lead us the faithful hardcore gamers into the next-gen with Xbox 360. Whether the HDD will be well supported by game developers over the Xbox 360's life is uncertain and completely depends upon what the mainstream gamer chooses. Just as the Duke controller was slowly phased out of the market so too may the HDD, eventually. As I pointed out before it doesn't really matter what percentage of Xbox 360 owners buy a HDD system at the launch of the console, what really matters is what percentage end up having a HDD system by the end of the generation.

The existence of the core console has created great reason for fear, uncertainty, and doubt with regards to the future of the HDD. Everyone who runs out and buys a HDD or Xbox 360 premium edition at launch should do so only with the understanding that there are no guarantees that that HDD will be well supported and regularly used by developers over the next 5 years. Judging by how the mainstream consumer chose the PS2 over the Xbox there is a very good possibilty that the core console will in fact end up as the default system for Xbox 360 owners.


Some of this is missing the point though.
When I bought my PS2 for $299 this is what I got.

1. Video cable backward compatibility
2. An enhanced Playstation One console
3. A nice DVD player with wired remote control
4. 2 USB ports (which saved me money when I got FFXI.)
5. A Playstation 2

I paid $30 for a memory card which I consider a small price to pay for a PS2, PS1, and DVD player. I was able to sell my PS1 for $50 which easily covered the cost of the memory card and left me with $20 left over to cover all the tax or to go towards a new game.

Above is what Microsoft still hasn't figured out, which is sad because even Soccer Mom "got it".
 
StRaNgE said:
that should last your ass a few years if used just on a wirless remote controll.

Funny, I don't remember my remote control having vibration features (not to mention the many other differences between a remote and a game controller).

That being said, I'm sure 36 batteries will last quite some time. Still gotta pay $20 to hook the controller up to a PC though.

edit: they only last 40 hours on 2 batteries :lol
 
So to Recap for those just joining us tonight on the GAF rant-o-matic -

Xbox 360 had its price unveiled , much to the anger of the entire internet. For 300 bones you can get just a system with a wired controller and blah blah blah, look at the news page. For an extra hundred bones you can get a chrome dvd drive , a hard drive - required for backwards compatibility and a bunch of crap you may or may not need.

It has seemingly been decided that, begrudgingly, the premium pack is in fact better then the 'retard bundle' has the core systems' been named.

Really though upon further thought I have to agree that both bundles are mildly retarded and I'd like to think that next year to compete there'll be a 3rd SKU made meant to replace the other 2 that has just the system with it's hard drive and 1 wireless gamepad with nothing else for whatever is competitive at the time.

Other facts for the day include-

Wired Controller is free with core system , a second one will set you back 40 bucks
Wireless Controller is free with premium pack BUT you need to buy a 20 dollar cord, a 20 dollar charging station and a 12 dollar battery to make it fully functional. A second controller will set you back 50 USD, so to get 1 controller and all its goods you'll need to blow 100 bucks.
 
Pachinko said:
Other facts for the day include-

Wired Controller is free with core system , a second one will set you back 40 bucks
Wireless Controller is free with premium pack BUT you need to buy a 20 dollar cord, a 20 dollar charging station and a 12 dollar battery to make it fully functional. A second controller will set you back 50 USD, so to get 1 controller and all its goods you'll need to blow 100 bucks.
I don't think that's right. It's bad but not as bad as you said.

Xbox 360 Play and Charge Kit
Ensure endless Xbox 360 Wireless Controller gaming, even when your batteries run low.
Suggested retail price: $19.99

Xbox 360 Rechargeable Battery Pack
Forget batteries and power your Xbox 360 Wireless Controller with 25 hours of play per charge.
Suggested retail price: $11.99


So it should be about $32 + tax on top of a $50 controller to get 1 fully functional working wireless controller that only lasts 25 hours on a charge. :lol
 
kutaragi3vs.png
 
border said:
It means that if you're serious about wireless, I don't think you'd be caught without the recharging cord ($20) and the battery pack ($12). The controller will take standardized rechargable AA batteries, but that does not leave you at the same level of reliability since if they go dead you cannot continue playing.


Shit. I've already got a AA recharger (they better fucking be NiMH batteries); but I'll have to spend another $20 on a plug and pray charge kit.

EDIT:

Hmmm, now that I think about it, I might buy another couple of sets of batteries and just always keep a set fully charged and in rotation.
 
---- said:
So it should be about $32 + tax on top of a $50 controller to get 1 functional working wireless controller that only lasts 25 hours on a charge. :lol
It's ridiculous. Thing is, with a wireless controller, I don't want wires. Ever. So I'd just as soon buy a gross of AA batteries that will last me years then spend extra money on more shit.
 
---- said:
So it should be about $32 + tax on top of a $50 controller to get 1 functional working wireless controller that only lasts 25 hours on a charge. :lol

Holy crap, I didn't even realize how dismal the battery life was.

40 hours on AA batteries and 25 hours on the rechargable pack :lol
 
So now having a battery pack and charger is a prerequisite for having a "functional working wireless controller." Okey.

I see I must have missed those components in the box for all the wireless controllers I've bought over the years. Damn, you think I can get a replacement for my Wavebird battery pack and charger? How bout all my Logitech ones?
 
MassiveAttack said:

You have got to be the dullest and least clever troll in the history of video game trolling. OMG PLEASE NOT ANOTHER (gasp!) PHOTOGRAPH! I STILL HAVEN'T STOPPED CRYING FROM THE LAST TWELVE! WHY DID I EVER BUY AN XBOX WHY WHY WHY?
 
Kolgar said:
Maybe I'm naive, but I'd like to think Sony will use MS's nickel-and-diming schemes against it, so as to come out looking like the good guy.

Sony: "We care about gamers." Show us the way, Ken! :lol

LOL..jesus man, where do you think MS learned all that nickle-and-diming? Thats a nice mem card you have in that ps or yours.....nice hd you added to your ps2...nice wireless controller you got there......oh, did you say you wanted component cables?.....sony been doing the same thing since the day they entered gaming.

Believe it or not, both are in the business to make money. heaven forbid they succeed, right! pft
 
StRaNgE said:
Forget rechargables.

for those of you freaking out on AA batteries.

go to home depot.

36 batteries for 11 bucks.

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDU...ID=ccchaddfhgihhdmcgelceffdfgidgjk.0&MID=9876


that should last your ass a few years if used just on a wirless remote controll.

you guys need to lay off the crack.

i already told ya 36 AA's only cost 11 dollars.
at 2 for the controller and months between replacing you have in one 11 dollar purchase probably enough batteries to last the entire 5 year system life of the console.
 
StRaNgE said:
you guys need to lay off the crack.

i already told ya 36 AA's only cost 11 dollars.
at 2 for the controller and months between replacing you have in one 11 dollar purchase probably enough batteries to last the entire 5 year system life of the console.

Except you need to replace them after 40 hours.

That gives you 720 hours of playtime before you're done with that 36 pack. And that is going by the likely generously rated battery life. Good luck getting to 5 years.
 
VALIS said:
You have got to be the dullest and least clever troll in the history of video game trolling. OMG PLEASE NOT ANOTHER (gasp!) PHOTOGRAPH! I STILL HAVEN'T STOPPED CRYING FROM THE LAST TWELVE! WHY DID I EVER BUY AN XBOX WHY WHY WHY?


Well its got you in a tizzy. :lol
 
schesh.. 400$ aint a lot of money for a product you will use a LOT

hell a lot of people buy graphics cards that cost 400$

whine, whine, whine, always the same with new products
 
Dr_Cogent said:
Exactly.

Pretty much, my attitude - as a developer I am going to target my software to the market. If the market mostly doesn't have something, I won't even bother writing the code to support it - because what benefit does it grant me? Very little is what.

So I take it you arent making a game where you could make a few extra bucks by having d/lable content? or maybe seeing a hd in the system enables better caching? And unless you are the head honcho at said dev house, you'll code what they tell you to.

If you are a developer, I bet you design quests or levels while others do the coding. You sure as hell dont sound like a game designer though.
 
SpokkX said:
schesh.. 400$ aint a lot of money for a product you will use a LOT

hell a lot of people buy graphics cards that cost 400$

whine, whine, whine, always the same with new products

I don't think many people are complaining about the $400 package. Its the retard pack, the segmentation, and the fucking ridiculous accessory pricing that is the problem.
 
MidgarBlowedUp said:
I never said it did.

Component cables and a properly calibrated CRT TV do a good job of cleaning up your image.

Only nurbs can remove jaggies.

hahahahahaha.

only nurbs can remove jaggies? Do you know what nurbs are?

Also, composite cables can reduce jaggies... but the problem with that is they do so by introducing their own inaccuracies; dot crawl along high contrast edges.
In practical terms, it's like replacing the jagged edge with a slightly checkered dithered pattern... that moves and is somewhat visually distracting.
 
Norse said:
LOL..jesus man, where do you think MS learned all that nickle-and-diming? Thats a nice mem card you have in that ps or yours.....nice hd you added to your ps2...nice wireless controller you got there......oh, did you say you wanted component cables?.....sony been doing the same thing since the day they entered gaming.

Believe it or not, both are in the business to make money. heaven forbid they succeed, right! pft
I always thought it was crazy how Sony sold a blue stand for the PS2 so that it didn't fall over. That seemed like the most trivial accessory. Why didn't they make the PS2 so that it didn't need a stand? Now we've got $20 faceplates which don't even serve a function.

I think MS's pricing scheme has now outdone any console manufacturer I can think of. Even if retailers were to mark down these MSRPs heavily some of them would still be ridiculous. I can't imagine the 20GB HDD accesory or the wi-fi adapter ever having a remotely reasonable retail price when they're starting out at $100. Am I now supposed to look at the PS3, Revolution as though they are giving me a $100 wi-fi feature for free?
 
Sal Paradise Jr said:
If I can save games onto my PC harddrive via wireless network, then I may end up getting the "retard pack". The only real reason I used my Xbox hdd was for ripping songs for custom soundtracks, but that's also going to be possible now w/o a hdd (I have a psp and MediaCenter PC).

$400 is a bit too steep, and I won't exactly die if I don't have a wireless controller within the first few months.

I doubt they'd do that because it would be a cheating nightmare on Xbox Live.
 
sangreal said:
Except you need to replace them after 40 hours.

That gives you 720 hours of playtime before you're done with that 36 pack. And that is going by the likely generously rated battery life. Good luck getting to 5 years.

720 hours on an $11 brick of batteries is a great deal. I actually get 48 great quality batteries for $9.99 at Costco. 960 hours for $10. How much am I going to play this? Maybe a dozen hours a week? Some weeks I won't even play at all. That's getting on two years for $10 in AAs.
 
ChrisReid said:
720 hours on an $11 brick of batteries is a great deal. I actually get 48 great quality batteries for $9.99 at Costco. 960 hours for $10. How much am I going to play this? Maybe a dozen hours a week? Some weeks I won't even play at all. That's getting on two years for $10 in AAs.

Depends on how much you play, I suppose. But even with your example of 12 hours a week it is cheaper in the long run to purchase the extra $32 worth of accessories to recharge it.
 
ChrisReid said:
720 hours on an $11 brick of batteries is a great deal. I actually get 48 great quality batteries for $9.99 at Costco. 960 hours for $10. How much am I going to play this? Maybe a dozen hours a week? Some weeks I won't even play at all. That's getting on two years for $10 in AAs.

...except that batteries age and you'll probably get less time with them as they age. Plus if you give a crap about the environment, they're pretty wasteful...

The wireless controller is the one thing I'd change about the $400 package, I'd rather have a wired controller (assuming they were unwilling to give me a rechargeable battery pack)...I could use rechargeable AAs, but one annoying thing about them is that they discharge over a couple of weeks, even if they aren't being actively used. I think I'd be irritated if the X360 hit a dry spot, then I get a new game and find out I can't play for an hour or so because my batteries have gone dead in the meantime...
 
just a note: The retail sales sheets (someone posted them at txb) have the battery and play & charge kit as one item for $20. It doesn't list the seperate battery at all

Its probably wrong, but we can always hope. That would make the controllers $70 instead of $82.
 
sangreal said:
just a note: The retail sales sheets (someone posted them at txb) have the battery and play & charge kit as one item for $20. It doesn't list the seperate battery at all

Its probably wrong, but we can always hope. That would make the controllers $70 instead of $82.
OK, so now we have to add in the price of every available accessory every time we determine the "real" price of a product. Gotcha.

The more available accessories, the bigger the rip-off!!
 
Rhindle said:
OK, so now we have to add in the price of every available accessory every time we determine the "real" price of a product. Gotcha.

The more available accessories, the bigger the rip-off!!

Well, lets see.. $20 charger or $10 of batteries every few months?

I know which one I'm going with.

Either way, it isn't an optional fee and not including it is simply deluding yourself.

Same with not including the price of a memory card when evaluating the core system.
 
Rhindle said:
OK, so now we have to add in the price of every available accessory every time we determine the "real" price of a product. Gotcha.

The more available accessories, the bigger the rip-off!!
I think the main point is that wireless controllers are a bigger monetary investment upfront and especially in the long run compared to wired controllers. I think that when the initial hype of wireless controllers dies down like it did with wavebird the wired controller will become the more popular selling item.


http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/xbox360accessories.htm

^Lists the rechareable batteries and the play and charge kit seperately.
 
---- said:
I think the main point is that wireless controllers are a bigger monetary investment upfront and especially in the long run compared to wired controllers. I think that when the initial hype of wireless controllers dies down like it did with wavebird the wired controller will become the more popular selling item.


http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/xbox360accessories.htm

^Lists the rechareable batteries and the play and charge kit seperately.

why exactly would you want the play and charge kit and batteries to come together?

what happens when you have to replace the batteries because they aren't holding any more power? Being forced to buy the play and charge kit along with it? Real smooth. "wah wah microsoft is ripping me off, but here! please rip me off more! I insist!"
 
sangreal said:
Well, lets see.. $20 charger or $10 of batteries every few months?

I know which one I'm going with.

Either way, it isn't an optional fee and not including it is simply deluding yourself.

Same with not including the price of a memory card when evaluating the core system.
Batteries are not optional when you buy a wavebird. Should you figure a lifetime supply of those, so it's really $150 instead of $40?

Shouldn't you figure in the price of all the electrical power it's going to take to run your console?

How about pricing a car? I mean, gas isn't optional you know.
 
DopeyFish said:
why exactly would you want the play and charge kit and batteries to come together?

what happens when you have to replace the batteries because they aren't holding any more power? Being forced to buy the play and charge kit along with it? Real smooth. "wah wah microsoft is ripping me off, but here! please rip me off more! I insist!"

What happened to loving choices? I should have the option between say $20 P&C kit or maybe $12 for the charger and $12 for the battery.

Also, the only reason --- posted that was in response to my post about the sales sheet having them as one item.
 
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