(Reuters) EU calls emergency meeting as crisis stalks Italy
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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criesofthepast
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Buying my dream home in Italy is about to get a lot cheaper 
...and would collapse faster then you can say "Nationalism is a fucking bitch but thankfully in this case it prevents a clusterfuck of corruption and bullshit that is already overwhelming within the current European Union".ThoseDeafMutes said:
Besides, I sure as hell don't want to share political space with the Italians, Dutch, Czech and Hungarians. Lega Nord, Party for Freedom and Jobbik can all poop themselves :I
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Bento said:
Your objections are as empty as your future. You are semi-autonomous because we allow it, and you will federate because we demand it. This conversation is over.
fushi
Member
And a lot of other things, really.Purkake4 said:Nah, just the economic and financial systems share some striking similarities. Well, except for the massive debt
Yeah, all those Greeks are surely rioting against the banks and not the government...Rourkey said:
That is to say, I've no clue what you're basing this on. There is obviously a lot of vitriol against the banks -- for good reason, I might add -- but to say that there is no animosity against the governments of respective countries and their luxurious spending habits is wildly incorrect.
fushi said:
Almost every time I see an interview on the BBC with Greek rioters bankers and the "financial meltdown that we didn't cause" are getting the flack but then I suspect that might be editorial bias at the BBC who don't like to equate these sovereign debt problems to spend thrift governments being government funded themselves..
I'm not seeing how that is the casePhoenix said:
If there was one world currency, the crash would not matter as much. Italy would simply become... Europe's New Jersey... or something. Do Americans feel like each state should have its own currency? I'm not necessarily in favour of one currency, but this is not really a solid argument against it.
Maybe I don't understand though, my grasp of economics as anything other than applied psychology is limited.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_policyDead Man said:
Ether_Snake
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How convenient.
I said it before: the western governments are doing all they can to make themselves "more competitive" in the face of a yuan that is taking too long to appreciate. We are seeing a great balancing act with China, which was inevitably going to occur on its own as this is a guaranteed result of trade between different countries, but since the Western countries' "competitiveness" was not going up as fast as China's was going down (read: our standard of living was not falling as fast as the Chinese' standard of living was rising), the governments are now forced to take action and speed up the process to bring life back to the economy. So the trick is to declare all governments unsolvable, and implement austerity measures to make us all cheaper workers.
And eventually, all western countries who don't follow will find themselves in an uncompetitive position. So everyone will have to join the ride down.
I wonder when we Canadians will see our own "austerity measures" crammed down our throats. One thing is certain: it will come.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Is Germany the only anomaly in the EU?
Ether_Snake
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ThisWreckage said:
I doubt they can stay in this position forever.
ThisWreckage
Banned
It's no coincidence that the countries doing the best in the worldwide economy are primarily the ones that are isolationist, neutral in terms of war, and part of no union.
United currencies work best in transfer unions: that is, political entities in which it is acceptable (on the balance) to residents of one region that their tax dollars be siphoned (in part) to service other regions of the union. The United States is an example of such a transfer union. So is the United Kingdom: Liverpool may be performing shoddily and require funds from London to keep the schools open and the roads safe, but nobody complains much. This bargain is palatable (in part) because of the sense of shared sacrifice, common cause, and collective governance.Dead Man said:
This is NOT the case in Europe. Germany is not pleased about paying Greece's public-sector debts because (in part) they feel they have no say in how Greece has spent its money. When the wealthier parts of Europe try to construct a debt-relief plan it includes heavy austerity measures because the banks (and the populace) in these wealthy parts feel they aren't running some charity; the Greeks resent it because they feel put upon by foreigners. Thus the Eurozone is being smashed against the reality of insufficient common purpose- common sovereignty, common tax-raising authority, common finance and spending policies.
It's reasonable to expect, I think, much the same would happen with a single world currency. There must be a counterflow to the flight of capital and the loss of demand; transfer unions are one way for that to happen and not bloody likely in a worldwide currency regime. The other best option is currency revaluation.
Ether_Snake said:
Unlike the TARP bailout the PIIGS bailouts won't be profitable. Citigroup, JP Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley and even Lehman/Bear Stearns were illiquid not insolvent like Greece and Portugal.
Additionally US citizens can and do move amongst the states and regions, matching capital flows amongst the US with labour flows. In the EU a Greek is unlikely to pick up and move to France due to the incredible differences in culture, labour practices and language.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
I have a solution:
Throw Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland out of the European Union. Invite them back in some time later when their politicians and public are mature enough for political union - so see you in about 80 years.
Oh, and please throw Greece out twice for good measure.
Throw Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland out of the European Union. Invite them back in some time later when their politicians and public are mature enough for political union - so see you in about 80 years.
Oh, and please throw Greece out twice for good measure.
Ether_Snake said:
if Italy is Europe's third largest economy, how can the other countries afford to bail them out?
Its almost like the banks are shitting on the very countries that bailed them out in the first place. Rather than being even a tiny bit humble, its like 'oh thanks, back to business, if we lower your credit rating we'll make a fortune betting against your currency lol'
D
Deleted member 1235
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netherlands.TacticalFox88 said:
also france and germany. Germany has quite high unemployment though I think?
2010 figures...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union
Scroll down a bit and you have a list you can sort by surplus/deficit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union
Scroll down a bit and you have a list you can sort by surplus/deficit.
Plus, they can print dollars and have USD debt, plus they're problem is political, not economic (since they have such lower taxes compared to the rest of the developed world, they can raise them anytime they want, unlike Portugal, e.g., which can't really pay for much more taxes).jorma said:
(but yeah, rating agencies being American is also a reason)
D
Deleted member 1235
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sorry, I wasn't counting the countries that didn't tie themselves to the sinking ship made of eurobuxjorma said:
John Dunbar
correct about everything
catfish said:
finland gots the eurobux
Lagspike_exe
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France is on the edge as well. They're extremely exposed to the failing PIGS economies.catfish said:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images...ew/02marsh-image/02marsh-image-custom1-v3.gif
D
Deleted member 1235
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:O really? Never been/didn't know this, I thought Scandinavia in general pulled the avoid on the euro.John Dunbar said:
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