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[Trident]

Like I said before, can you really tell me, even with the most graphically impressive XBOX360 title we've seen thus far, that it looks more than 2 or 3 times better than a similar game on the original XBOX? Because I haven't seen one.

Dude, your avatar is fucking disturbing.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

So, they just got out dev kits and are supposed to launch this year?

 

[drohne]

i do wonder where shooter developers will go next gen...ps3 may be prohibitively expensive (and scei may impose graphical standards), 360 has no japanese audience, and the revolution philosophy is antithetical to 2d shooters. maybe they'll just stick with ps2. :/

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

If true, that is dirt cheap. Hopefully Nintendo will be willing to cut smaller companies a break on royalties. I seriously hope that gives a bunch of indie developers a chance at producing something new and exciting.

Edit: You know, a dev kit that cheap has to make the likes of EA and Activision a little nervous. Nintendo could seriously be lowering the barrier to entry and open the door for smaller, more agile companies to take some risks. If these smaller companies start succeeding with budgets a fraction the size of EA's will they (EA) be able to adapt?

I wonder though, they're talking about SDK(Software development kits), is this the title developers will use when they have final hardware. To top it all off the dev kits comapnies like EA and Ubisoft will be getting soon will be dev kits that are not a 100%.

I think that article that Revo-gaming posted was more accurate then previously thought. If any one remember, they took a shot at Matt-IGN and crew for posting those lame ass specs.

http://www.revogaming.net/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=172

 

[Error]

i do wonder where shooter developers will go next gen...ps3 may be prohibitively expensive (and scei may impose graphical standards), 360 has no japanese audience, and the revolution philosophy is antithetical to 2d shooters. maybe they'll just stick with ps2. :/

PSP?

 

[PolyGone]

Dude, your avatar is fucking disturbing.

:lol you haven't lived til you've seen a cartoon woman dressed as a maid being led around on all fours by the dog collar 'round her neck. I know. Its fucking sick.

 

[dynamitejim]

Like I said before, can you really tell me, even with the most graphically impressive XBOX360 title we've seen thus far, that it looks more than 2 or 3 times better than a similar game on the original XBOX? Because I haven't seen one.

There are a lot of them that do. Just watch some of the HD videos on Gamespot or Game Trailers. MGS4, Gears of War, Dead Rising, etc.

 

[joeposh]

I don't see why everyone is latching onto the 2x as powerful quote... it says in the article that the power was upped quite a bit in the latest version, and that a fourth one running at 90-95 percent will be offered to the big developers soon. To me that means that no one has really seen what this system is capable of yet. Obviously it's not going to be a ps3, but it sounds like it could pack a powerful graphical punch. Not having to do HD really frees up alot of resources for the developer, and the Gamecube was alot more powerful than people gave it credit for (see Zelda and RE4). What's yet to be seen is whether developers will actually take the time to make sure their games take advantage of the architechture correctly. Hopefully they will be forced to this time around, since doing straight ports from other next gen systems won't really be an option.

 

[dkeane]

i do wonder where shooter developers will go next gen...ps3 may be prohibitively expensive (and scei may impose graphical standards), 360 has no japanese audience, and the revolution philosophy is antithetical to 2d shooters. maybe they'll just stick with ps2. :/

Maybe, sort of how they stuck with the deamcast. But with the Revolution being cheap and having a variety of options for control, ...you never know.

 

[thetrin]

i do wonder where shooter developers will go next gen...ps3 may be prohibitively expensive (and scei may impose graphical standards), 360 has no japanese audience, and the revolution philosophy is antithetical to 2d shooters. maybe they'll just stick with ps2. :/

Dreamcast for the win.

But honestly, I think the Revolution controller would actually be really cool for shooters. It could actually work really really well.

 

[kaizoku]

exactly why can't console games be this way? there's plenty of them out there that are just like this.

people shouldn't like at it as, the portable market is one thing, and the console market is another, because the bottom line, regardless of how different the markets can be, Nintendo's new business model can work on both markets.

The touch series would not work on a home console, where you have to sit, let it load, play and then swap for the next session.

DS can be done at any time, during your lunch, on the train, just plug and play. DS can hit the groups like mums and business people because its a convenience/lifestyle/fashion gadget. Web browser reflects that, its not essential, or better than alternatives, but its convenience and lifestyle.

Home consoles are not and will never be able to tap into the same things, not in the same way. They could do a Nintendogs or Brain Training of some sort, but it would require huge tweakage of the basic formula.

I dont think they will though, I think Nintendo has other plans for its home console strategy.

 

[TehOh]

i do wonder where shooter developers will go next gen...ps3 may be prohibitively expensive (and scei may impose graphical standards), 360 has no japanese audience, and the revolution philosophy is antithetical to 2d shooters. maybe they'll just stick with ps2. :/

Dreamcast

 

[thetrin]

PSP?

PSP in TATE perhaps? Holding the PSP like that would be a fucking pain in the neck, though. I WOULD look super awesome, though.

 

[drohne]

2d shooters demand very precise control, and also the ability to stay perfectly still -- if a game ignored very fine movements of the wand it'd sacrifice precision, and if it responded to fine movements it'd be impossible to hold still. and 2d shooters are fundamentally digital rather than analog.

Spoiler

and playing a 2d shooter by flailing around would be ridiculous and depressing.

 

[kaizoku]

i do wonder where shooter developers will go next gen...ps3 may be prohibitively expensive (and scei may impose graphical standards), 360 has no japanese audience, and the revolution philosophy is antithetical to 2d shooters. maybe they'll just stick with ps2. :/

Handhelds FTW!!

But you can turn the revmote sideways NES style or use the Shell?

 

[raYne]

So, they just got out dev kits and are supposed to launch this year?

Eh? This is like the 3rd set of dev kits that've been shipped out... It even says so in the article.

If you needed to put a name to them, this would be the "Gamma" kits. :lol

 

[PolyGone]

There are a lot of them that do. Just watch some of the HD videos on Gamespot or Game Trailers. MGS4, Gears of War, Dead Rising, etc.

I'm unconvinced.

Compare MGS3 to MGS4, if you haven't done so already. Yeah, MGS4 looks fucking incredible, but its not like its even 10x better, in terms of polycounts, textures etc.

There are certainly elements of Dead Rising, specifically textures or the polycounts in the models that don't look much better than current gen. I would argue Dead Rising doesn't look much better than Resident Evil 4, except maybe 2-3 times better since there are so many characters on screen.

And is Gears of War more than 2 or 3 times better than Doom 3?

edit: again, not saying these games look bad. But I don't see anything that would make me say they look anything more than 2 or 3 times better if I were asked to describe them in a general way.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I think they will aim for a similar pick up and play thing with the Revolution as they've done with DS.

I bet Revolution has a Sleep mode as well, so just power-on with the remote and continue where you left off.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

So, no new details on the GPU? Because, as far as Rev specs go, that's probably what I'm most interested about at the moment.

Here you go http://www.revogaming.net/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=172

 

[cvxfreak]

Handhelds FTW!!

But you can turn the revmote sideways NES style or use the Shell?

Both, yeah.

 

[Zombie James]

The original Xbox supports HDTV resolutions, but the Revolution can't... so how can the Revolution be 2-3x more powerful than the Gamecube and still not be as powerful as an Xbox? I'm kind of confused about this...

 

[argon]

i do wonder where shooter developers will go next gen...ps3 may be prohibitively expensive (and scei may impose graphical standards), 360 has no japanese audience, and the revolution philosophy is antithetical to 2d shooters. maybe they'll just stick with ps2. :/

Why do you say that? The virtual console will open a whole lot of people up to classic 2D shooters.

If Nintendo allows companies to sell games online through their network, it would be a huge boon to shooter developers.. and $2000 for a dev kit is sweet! (does that include the hardware?)

 

[PolyGone]

The original Xbox supports HDTV resolutions, but the Revolution can't... so how can the Revolution be 2-3x more powerful than the Gamecube and still not be as powerful as an Xbox? I'm kind of confused about this...

The original Xbox does not support true HDTV resolutions, it actually does the same as Gamecube, which is progressive scan.

 

[Zombie James]

The original Xbox does not support true HDTV resolutions, it actually does the same as Gamecube, which is progressive scan.

According to HDTV Arcade, quite a few games support 720p...

 

[thetrin]

I still think the Rev would be a great platform for shooters. None of us have held a waggle wand yet, so we can't say whether or not it really would work for a shooter, but worst case scenario, they could use it sideways or in a shell.

 

[PolyGone]

According to HDTV Arcade, quite a few games support 720p...

so is that true 720p and 1080i, or is it a stretced 480p?

 

[drohne]

revolution is about simple, inclusive games, and modern 2d shooters exclude practically everyone. it's hardly the ideal destination for boutique developers like g. rev or cave. maybe taito will make a waggly space invaders.

 

[dynamitejim]

I'm unconvinced.

Compare MGS3 to MGS4, if you haven't done so already. Yeah, MGS4 looks fucking incredible, but its not like its even 10x better, in terms of polycounts, textures etc.

There are certainly elements of Dead Rising, specifically textures or the polycounts in the models that don't look much better than current gen. I would argue Dead Rising doesn't look much better than Resident Evil 4, except maybe 2-3 times better since there are so many characters on screen.

And is Gears of War more than 2 or 3 times better than Doom 3?

edit: again, not saying these games look bad. But I don't see anything that would make me say they look anything more than 2 or 3 times better if I were asked to describe them in a general way.

Have you seen the 720p MGS4 trailer floating around? The game is still early and it already looks 10x better than MGS3. There really is no comparison between the two.

Dead Rising has been looking better and better. The lighting looks nearly photorealistic at times.

GC topped out at RE4, a game that still has a lot of imperfections. Something 2-3x the GC won't be capable of the advanced lighting, physics, audio, etc. of what were seeing on the other new consoles now, let alone what we'll be seeing in 2-3 years time.

One thing to consider is that the Rev controller will be far less lenient on frame rates. You're gonna a solid 60fps to really feel the interactivity. So while the other consoles will devote power to HD resolutions, Rev games will probably have to devout whatever extra power it has to making sure games run at a smooth 60fps.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Eh? This is like the 3rd set of dev kits that've been shipped out... It even says so in the article.

If you needed to put a name to them, this would be the "Gamma" kits. :lol

I don't know, someone said the 1st was just a gamecube with the new controller. Maybe Nintendo will suprise us all by not making a delay.

 

[Oblivion]

Like I said before, can you really tell me, even with the most graphically impressive XBOX360 title we've seen thus far, that it looks more than 2 or 3 times better than a similar game on the original XBOX? Because I haven't seen one.

Guess you obviously haven't heard that Xbox360 is 10 times more powerful than Xbox, cause it is. I mean, look at the games. How can you NOT see a 10 fold improvement. Must be Nintendofanboydom.

 

[Zombie James]

so is that true 720p and 1080i, or is it a stretced 480p?

Don't know personally, but if 720p was nothing more than stretched 480p all games would support it. So logically i'd say it's native.

 

[drohne]

Guess you obviously haven't heard that Xbox360 is 10 times more powerful than Xbox, cause it is. I mean, look at the games. How can you NOT see a 10 fold improvement. Must be Nintendofanboydom.

...or maybe a tenfold increase in computing power doesn't result in something that looks "ten times better." by extension, what do you suppose a twofold increase in computing power will get you?

 

[PolyGone]

Have you seen the 720p MGS4 trailer floating around? The game is still early and it already looks 10x better than MGS3. There really is no comparison between the two.

Dead Rising has been looking better and better. The lighting looks nearly photorealistic at times.

GC topped out at RE4, a game that still has a lot of imperfections. Something 2-3x the GC won't be capable of the advanced lighting, physics, audio, etc. of what were seeing on the other new consoles now, let alone what we'll be seeing in 2-3 years time.

One thing to consider is that the Rev controller will be far less lenient on frame rates. You're gonna a solid 60fps to really feel the interactivity. So while the other consoles will devote power to HD resolutions, Rev games will probably have to devout whatever extra power it has to making sure games run at a smooth 60fps.

Yeah but Nintendo was speaking about the Revolution's graphical capabilities in a very general way. They don't like to tout the numbers as they appear on paper, they never have.

And I still disagree with you about the above games. I'm talking about poly counts, textures, etc and even the MGS4 HD trailer has textures which aren't very clear. Nintendo may have to run games at 60fps (that is yet to be seen) but then, they don't have to worry about running in resolutions any higher than 480p.

Also, take a look at Sega's next gen titles, like that Sonic or their sci-fi fps game. 2-3 times better than current gen, if I've ever seen it.

 

[LM4sure]

Well that sucks. I imagine there will be a lot less third party support for the Revolution than there was for the Gamecube. The Revolution is going to be much less powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3, and probably would be a pain in the ass to port games. Things aren't looking good. Hopefully Nintendo will have some kickass software. That's reason enough to buy one.

 

[Snow]

Here you go http://www.revogaming.net/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=172

Thanks. This is the crucial bit of those GPU rumourspecs though:

Although he acknowledged that Revolution will not be as powerful as 360 or PS3, he said that the optimisation level of Revolution is similar to that of the GameCube: although it did not have the highest hardware specification, it managed to churn out the best graphics in titles such as Resident Evil 4.

While there is a good chance that the GPU has better functionality than the IGN "it's believed to be an extension of flipper" specs make it look like, I'm extremely doubtful that it can keep up to the competition in the same way GCN could. Still, the ArtX team did some cool stuff with the GCN GPU, so even if it is miles behind Xenos and RSX in power, I'm still very curious what they did with Hollywood.

Has it ever actually been confirmed that the ArtX team is the one who is designing Hollywood?

edit: Hollywood, not Broadway

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

revolution is about simple, inclusive games, and modern 2d shooters exclude practically everyone. it's hardly the ideal destination for boutique developers like g. rev or cave. maybe taito will make a waggly space invaders.

So boutique developers wouldn't benefit from a console with low development overhead? :lol Or the Revolution ethos won't allow them to use the platform for traditional genres? :lol :lol

I suspect that the shmup fans out there will follow Cave around wherever they go, so it hardly matters to their bottom line as long as the hardware can handle the ports. I also suspect that Cave could probably figure out how to turn the Revmote horizontal.

 

[Oblivion]

...or maybe a tenfold increase in computing power doesn't result in something that looks "ten times better." by extension, what do you suppose a twofold increase in computing power will get you?

I'm well aware of that. Don't know what exactly MS was referring to with the "10X better" talk, but many people (including those on GAF) think it means for graphics. Even though not a single one looks that good.

And about your shooter question, you can use the shell, you know.

 

[imastalker co.]

...but it's difficult to imagine a controller less suited to 2d shooters than the waggle wand. it's also difficult to imagine the revolution's likely audience playing 2d shooters.

1. tell me, why isn't this set up right here adequate for shmups?

i think anyone that has any interest in shmups (especially developers), knows that using the "lazer pointer" on the revolution controller obviously isn't the way to go.

2. dude, i mean c'mon man. why are you only seeing one side of things? you can't seriously believe that revolution is only going to appeal to non-gamers.

The touch series would not work on a home console, where you have to sit, let it load, play and then swap for the next session.

did it ever occur to you that, i dunno, this might sound a bit crazy to you, but, maybe, and just maybe, Nintendo would try to create something that's the equivelant to the Touch Generation line?

i dunno, cooking, fishing, orchestra conductor? oh look, things that can't be done on DS, yet, can still be instant fun.

and really, to say that consoles aren't capable of instant pick up and play games is sooooo absurd, that im just not gonna listen to anything else you have to say. did you see how fast some GameCube games would boot up and throw you right in? did you know that one of Nintendo's focus with Revolution was to make something that booted up very quickly?

anyways, here are some Iwata quotes to think about as you remind yourself that dev kits are supposedly $2,000...

"And third, even though the game experience enjoyed by players will be far different on Revolution, developing for it will be familiar. It will not require a steep new learning curve. In this way, just like Nintendo DS, it's a place where the best ideas - not the biggest budgets - will win."

"We have a great opportunity to develop innovative software with great ideas. Brain Training DS had a small development team, and took advantage of the new design. 10 people, and total development, was less than 4 months! Many have been concerned that time and money and risk for next gen is too much. Nintendo wants to provide a stage on which to showcase your ideas. Nintendo is willing to help bring those ideas to life, if seeing the controller today sparks new ideas, Nintendo is ready for your proposals! "

yeah, i dunno, but i can definitely see the Revolution being quite the safe haven for all those smaller devs that might end up having to fold shop, or get swallowed up.

Technos, Cave, and what the hell, Treasure, are are developers that i'd love to see make Revolution their primary platform for development next gen.

 

[Oblivion]

Thanks. This is the crucial bit of those GPU rumourspecs though:
While there is a good chance that the GPU has better functionality than the IGN "it's believed to be an extension of flipper" specs make it look like, I'm extremely doubtful that it can keep up to the competition in the same way GCN could. Still, the ArtX team did some cool stuff with the GCN GPU, so even if it is miles behind Xenos and RSX in power, I'm still very curious what they did with Broadway.

Has it ever actually been confirmed that the ArtX team is the one who is designing Broadway?

Broadway is the CPU. The GPU is Hollywood.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So what's that supposed to mean? That the console is not actually less powerful than X360 (which is hard to believe) or that the controller is so great that the difference in power doesn't matter?

They're compensating with their wand.

Remember when Rogue Squadron Trilogy was heading to Xbox? IGN made bold claims that this game was in production and they were the only ones who knew about it. Months passed and no other major site reported this. Finally IGN ran a story claiming that Factor 5 canned the game. BS.

To be accurate, I don't believe they ever said it was Factor 5 doing the porting.

So a Rev dev kit is about $2,000? That's mighty impressive. Nintendo's keeping their promise of offering even the smallest studio access to the Revolution.

GAF should buy one. :lol

...but it's difficult to imagine a controller less suited to 2d shooters than the waggle wand.

Ehh, either moving the wand side to side or just using the d-pad, combined with one or two buttons for shoot seems like a game that wouldn't even need the 'chuck attachment.

One thing to consider is that the Rev controller will be far less lenient on frame rates. You're gonna a solid 60fps to really feel the interactivity. So while the other consoles will devote power to HD resolutions, Rev games will probably have to devout whatever extra power it has to making sure games run at a smooth 60fps.

Oh hell yes, I'd love that.

 

[drohne]

expecting hardcore shooter fans to buy into a platform otherwise brimming with edutainment and spastic novelty games sounds like a dicey proposition to me, but it's hard to argue with three laughing emoticons in one post! it's settled: there will obviously be lots of 2d shooters on revolution.

 

[kaizoku]

Well that sucks. I imagine there will be a lot less third party support for the Revolution than there was for the Gamecube. The Revolution is going to be much less powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3, and probably would be a pain in the ass to port games. Things aren't looking good. Hopefully Nintendo will have some kickass software. That's reason enough to buy one.

Not necessarily, 3rd parties more or less have to support multiplatform next gen if they want to turn profit, very few will stay exclusive to one console.

If anything such is the power and resources required for PS3 and 360 I'm wondering how these companies hope to make much profit. Every game has to be a hit, no bombs, no mistakes, no going over schedule or over budget. One bad game could see a big company struggle for years or go under completely. Its not going to be pretty cos we all know a lot of games will be made next gen which will not sell well at all.

Revolution, like the DS, might turn out to be a great business plan for many games and developers.

 

[PolyGone]

expecting hardcore shooter fans to buy into a platform otherwise brimming with edutainment and spastic novelty games sounds like a dicey proposition to me, but it's hard to argue with three laughing emoticons in one post! it's settled: there will obviously be lots of 2d shooters on revolution.

Its like your whole argument doesn't take the dreamcast, and Under Defeat being the latest example, into account.

 

[PolyGone]

Not necessarily, 3rd parties more or less have to support multiplatform next gen if they want to turn profit, very few will stay exclusive to one console.

If anything such is the power and resources required for PS3 and 360 I'm wondering how these companies hope to make much profit. Every game has to be a hit, no bombs, no mistakes, no going over schedule or over budget. One bad game could see a big company struggle for years or go under completely. Its not going to be pretty cos we all know a lot of games will be made next gen which will not sell well at all.

Revolution, like the DS, might turn out to be a great business plan for many games and developers.

And they won't even have to charge a $10 premium.

 

[Snow]

Broadway is the CPU. The GPU is Hollywood.

Indeed it is. I'll edit my post to make me look slightly less stupid.

 

[human5892]

That dev kit price is likely the best news Rev fans could hope for in lieu of actual information about the machine or games themselves. At that price, a company would almost be stupid not to try an inexpensive game idea out on the Revolution...say, a 2D shooter, for instance.

 

[Confidence Man]

I'm well aware of that. Don't know what exactly MS was referring to with the "10X better" talk, but many people (including those on GAF) think it means for graphics. Even though not a single one looks that good.

And about your shooter question, you can use the shell, you know.

If you know better then why would make such a silly statement?

 

[Companion Cube]

That makes sense. Still hard to pony up anything more than $100 for such a meager improvement. With the cheap price for the console and devkits maybe we'll see PSP->Rev ports.

 

[imastalker co.]

expecting hardcore shooter fans to buy into a platform otherwise brimming with edutainment and spastic novelty games sounds like a dicey proposition to me

but wouldn't you agree that anyone that plays modern shmups, are hardcore gamers, and well, end up buying all the systems? i'd say it's damn likely. especially when it's a Nintendo system.

 

[kaizoku]

did it ever occur to you that, i dunno, this might sound a bit crazy to you, but, maybe, and just maybe, Nintendo would try to create something that's the equivelant to the Touch Generation line?

i dunno, cooking, fishing, orchestra conductor? oh look, things that can't be done on DS, yet, can still be instant fun.

and really, to say that consoles aren't capable of instant pick up and play games is sooooo absurd, that im just not gonna listen to anything else you have to say. did you see how fast some GameCube games would boot up and throw you right in? did you know that one of Nintendo's focus with Revolution was to make something that booted up very quickly?

eugh, stop being stupid for the sake of an argument. You really think the same people who bought into Brain Training will buy into Rev for the same reasons? You basically said so yourself, Touch series won't work. I did say they need another approach, which you also mentioned.

If you think Touch series philosophies can be adapted to any home console you need to go revise your knowledge about the Touch series and why people love them. Just cos you would play a home console game for 30 minutes, doesn't mean the non-gamers will.