Dang, story's good huh... was debating between this and Theatrhythm and I think I'm gonna settle on this. I've always liked Layton games for every reason except puzzles (lol) so this sounds like a no-brainer for me. I also love jazz and rhythm games, and coming off of Gravity Rush I need another charming game with an interesting story in my life. :V
Picked this game up a couple days ago. This really does feel like a Layton game with Rhythm and sound replacing the puzzles. The Rhythm mini-games are fun and tapping everywhere for collectibles is back .
Really great game, I picked up the only copy a the store I went to.
The rhythm game inside Notre Dam where you tap the A button kicked my fucking ass. That's the only one I can't get better than a D. All the other rhythm segments in the game I have gotten A's. That one, so far, is the one that just kicked my ass. I couldn't get the feel.
I ended up picking both Theatrhythm and this up, so I'm balancing both. I had Rhythm Thief preordered over Theatrhythm because I sorta figured I didn't need one for the FF game since it likely had more copies produced than RT.
Someone brought up JSR, and yeah, that's kinda how I feel about it too in terms of animation. Not as fluid as Ghost Trick, but it's very nice to watch in motion during the dance numbers.
Sega seriously needs to tap into the rhythm genre more often and bring their own style and flair to the genre. They have the perfect sound team for it; a sound team that's used to performing live often, explore different genres and varieties of music all the time, and who know exactly what they're doing. As usual, Sega's presentation and music in a game is the key ticket. They just need better control implementation.
AndrewDean84xX said:
The rhythm game inside Notre Dam where you tap the A button kicked my fucking ass. That's the only one I can't get better than a D. All the other rhythm segments in the game I have gotten A's. That one, so far, is the one that just kicked my ass. I couldn't get the feel.
one? I found that holding the stylus on the screen and shifting back and forth as if you were playing a violin worked. That one truly caught me off-guard at first because I couldn't see the direction in which the arrows were pointing.
If Sega ever decides to capitalize on this IP (lol, we know they won't), I would appreciate better UI implementation and better gyro controls in the future.
If Sega ever decides to capitalize on this IP (lol, we know they won't), I would appreciate better UI implementation and better gyro controls in the future.
I would prefer them to flat out not do gyro games in the future. Pretty much all of the gyro games control terribly and for a rhythm game where timing is everything, relying on the 3DS's gyro is a bad idea. The gyro games add nothing but frustration to the game and for every one of them there is a stylus motion or button combination that would work perfectly with the game.
Oh yes, that one isn't very good. I had much better luck with the one before from the demo with the D-Pad and A button, but that might have been because it was from the demo and I had practice with it. >.>
I've had some issues with the rhythm minigames requiring button presses, almost like they're not registering or something. But the stylus-based ones are completely fine.
The optional NPC Samba de Amigoish D-pad + XAB minigame went okay, though. So I dunno what's up. Maybe I have to break the 3DS's buttons in a bit more?
I would prefer them to flat out not do gyro games in the future. Pretty much all of the gyro games control terribly and for a rhythm game where timing is everything, relying on the 3DS's gyro is a bad idea. The gyro games add nothing but frustration to the game and for every one of them there is a stylus motion or button combination that would work perfectly with the game.
The ones where I had to move the 3DS up or forward or whatever got on my nerves since they were the ones that the gyro seemed to fail at. The gyro ones don't really sync well with the rhythm aspect of the game as it seems like you have to really jerk the 3DS in a direction for it to register, which can take up precious seconds.
I too am going to bring up questions about the button inputs, kind of funny really as usually buttons would be given the nod to trump stylus controls (see Rhythm Paradise/Heaven DS vs the GBA and Wii outings). The main problem comes when you have to press say 3 quickly in a row, while this is clearly trickier anyway it's at these moments where the buttons seems to just lack responsiveness, though i'm probably just making excuses for myself because i'm still bitter about the poodle minigame, NEVER AGAIN!
I bet there's a second one now i've said that
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Oh and the less said about the gyro the better, i'm usually quite up for some motion controls but not like this.
This post is sounding too negative so here's me saying this game is still pretty good.
I think one of the more frustrating aspects is how quickly your score drops if you mess up. I was doing one of the color matching puzzles and had an A and missed the very last move and got dropped down to a C >.<
So: am I hearing that the controls are marred by lag, arranged in a way that makes the control scheme for certain parts of the game harder to use, or both? This stuff's important, because I might get this game eventually.
So: am I hearing that the controls are marred by lag, arranged in a way that makes the control scheme for certain parts of the game harder to use, or both? This stuff's important, because I might get this game eventually.
I thought the controls were pretty great, for the most part. The aforementioned gyro games were the only point it really got annoying.
You americans are in for a treat when you get to the faux-Luke game. My favourite in the whole thing.
Yeah, I never had an issue with the button controlled games that other people are mentioning. The only problems I had with the controls were with the gyro games but I think there's only like 5 or 6 of them.
Yeah, I never had an issue with the button controlled games that other people are mentioning. The only problems I had with the controls were with the gyro games but I think there's only like 5 or 6 of them.
The really frustrating bit about those levels is that they could so easily be replaced with dpad controls.
But it is only a handful like you said, so no big deal.
The main problem comes when you have to press say 3 quickly in a row, while this is clearly trickier anyway it's at these moments where the buttons seems to just lack responsiveness, though i'm probably just making excuses for myself because i'm still bitter about the poodle minigame, NEVER AGAIN!
I did that one last night. Never again, lol. It only happens when you have to do it several times in a row so it's either the game, me, or the 3DS. But since there are other people having issues with the button controls, it mightn't just be me? It's too bad I can't try the game out on another 3DS or anything.
It's nothing too too bad that super-detracts from the experience, though, since you can just buy buffs with coins when the going gets tough (ex: the defensive buff that prevents your Groove from going down too low, the Phoenix Down-like buff that restores half of your Groove if you lose it all, etc). The rhythm games in general are fun and easy to get through when taking items into account.
I'm still liking this game a whole lot even with some of my issues with the gyro and whatnot. I watched some Japanese footage yesterday, and I sorta think that Raphael's (er, well, Ralph in the JP version) English voice is kind of more suitable for the character. Like, he sounds more chill and not as tough (well, probably not the best word, but this has a lot more to do with timbre than anything else; not toughness) as the Japanese counterpart. I like the English timbre more than the Japanese timbre.
Taking a break and then I'll play this a little more.
And on this day i've stumbled upon my very worst fear, one so brutal it must be contained behind spoilers and that fear is as follows...
*minigame spoilers, no plot spoilers*
there's a second poodle bread chomping game, WHY?! and the second Samba De Amigo minigame is absolutely brutal, coming across both of these in succession just killed my desire to play for now.
And on this day i've stumbled upon my very worst fear, one so brutal it must be contained behind spoilers and that fear is as follows...
*minigame spoilers, no plot spoilers*
there's a second poodle bread chomping game, WHY?! and the second Samba De Amigo minigame is absolutely brutal, coming across both of these in succession just killed my desire to play for now.
And on this day i've stumbled upon my very worst fear, one so brutal it must be contained behind spoilers and that fear is as follows...
*minigame spoilers, no plot spoilers*
there's a second poodle bread chomping game, WHY?! and the second Samba De Amigo minigame is absolutely brutal, coming across both of these in succession just killed my desire to play for now.
So: am I hearing that the controls are marred by lag, arranged in a way that makes the control scheme for certain parts of the game harder to use, or both? This stuff's important, because I might get this game eventually.
No lags encountered so far. Gyro is wierd in that you have to really make it deliberate, but its bases its movement in relation to the ground and it clearly says you have to "tilt", not "swing", so they are accurate but could be executed better.
Dark Schala said:
I'm still liking this game a whole lot even with some of my issues with the gyro and whatnot. I watched some Japanese footage yesterday, and I sorta think that Raphael's (er, well, Ralph in the JP version) English voice is kind of more suitable for the character. Like, he sounds more chill and not as tough (well, probably not the best word, but this has a lot more to do with timbre than anything else; not toughness) as the Japanese counterpart. I like the English timbre more than the Japanese timbre.
This goddamn poodle minigame. It really shows how much the ranking system sucks in this game. Three misses at the very end shouldn't drop you from A to D rank :/
edit: wtf, I just got an A in this mingame and the list is showing a B. wtf wtf wtf
I really didn't expect so much adventure gameplay. Like, it might as well be labeled an adventure game with rhythm minigames. It's good, except for the tapping on the screen for medals. Not quite sure if there's much depth or complexity to the adventure gameplay, but I'm only currently past Chapter 1.
This goddamn poodle minigame. It really shows how much the ranking system sucks in this game. Three misses at the very end shouldn't drop you from A to D rank :/
edit: wtf, I just got an A in this mingame and the list is showing a B. wtf wtf wtf
Whoa, that's odd. I've been replaying every mission in story mode until I get an A, and I just checked my Rhythm List and it also only gave me a B on one of the minigames. Maybe your total grade is an average of every time you completed that minigame or something? But then I'd think I would have more than one which didn't give me an A.
Just figured out that it displays your highest score regardless of rank, so you can get all perfects but screw up the final one and end up with a B. The only way then to get an A rank score to display is to get all perfect.
It's really stupid. I hate the guy who thought this ranking system was a good idea.
1. It's very hard to do press A button rapidly and precisely on the 3DS.
2. I need fully fledged out Samba Amigo for the 3ds right now. The control has been nailed here. Best game in the package.
The developer should really make up their minds though. You either go full touch screen or go with just buttons. It's annoying switching between the two schemes.
I think the swipes work really well for the space channel 5 game as well. That and Samba are by far the best games in this. I've never seen a game with so much mind numbing filler and easy "puzzles". And is there a point to these medals? I bought all the movies in the store and I have over 700 medals left and counting LOL
Well, I played it and beat it in... four and a half hours. As someone who's been waiting excitedly for this game since it was first announced, I've gotta say that I'm sorely disappointed... with the story and characters in particular. (So disappointed that I had to get onto NeoGAF and complain about it. :V Counterarguments are welcome.)
Endgame spoilers for Layton: Unwound Future and Rhythm Thief ahead. I use Unwound Future for some comparisons.
I knew this game was going to cop Layton in a lot of ways -- I had no problems with that going into this game. Even some of the character archetypes and story elements are similar, which is fine with me because they've been done well before. But compared to the unraveling of Unwound Future, Rhythm Thief falls flat on its face.
It was frustrating to stumble upon the realization that the mystery in Rhythm Thief lacks any real intrigue. As a comparison, Unwound Future introduces a mystery which is quite, well, mysterious. Intertwining plot threads slowly align to give you the full picture, and while some of the plot elements of Unwound are pretty preposterous, they are at least actually surprising and revelatory. Rhythm Thief's only real mystery -- the motivations of Raphael's father -- is not even addressed, and pretty much the only other meaningful plot twist, Jean-Francois' alignment, is seriously injured by his stupidly obvious character design and his incredibly weak, throwaway motive (which comes in the form of one line about wanting to restore France to greatness). Napoleon being a fake has no impact because Napoleon himself is a one-dimensional power-hungry villain and his doppelganger status is introduced seconds before he dies. This is in comparison to Unwound Future's doppelganger villain, Clive, whose identity and motivations become integral to his character and his actions. Even if you find his status as the big bad to be obvious (which I didn't), his hostility and dangerousness as a character are consistent with his clear-cut motivations.
Rhythm Thief's story issues are exacerbated not only by the dull, off-puttingly low-key voice acting (which is way too low-key in moments when it shouldn't be... I'm looking at you Marie), but also by plot choices that are reversed within minutes or are not properly prepared for/explained. Raphael and the Duchess being shot are prime examples of the former. Even Charlie is utterly confused when Raphael just gets up after being shot and walks it off, especially since he was writhing on the ground on the Eiffel Tower. And then Marie is like "oh the Duchess is okay" at the end of the game. Not that I was given any reason to care about her anyway, but then you just revive her off screen. Great? Beyond that, the significance of a bunch of central plot tools was completely lost on me. I still don't understand what the Bracelet of Tiamat does (besides emit a blue light that can apparently break ancient generators or instate a pool of very specific zero gravity on baddies), why the original, robotic Chevaliers were ever introduced. Was the purpose of the Dragon Crown to activate the Hanging Gardens? Why was Moon Princess necessary? Why did Marie, specifically, have to play Moon Princess? Why did Raphael "leave" in the end, and what exactly does that even mean? Maybe all of this is explained and I just didn't catch it; if so, I'd much appreciate it if someone could bring me up to speed.
Besides Napoleon and Jean-Francois being boring villains, Vergier and Charlie are... boring foils. They lack the charming or idiosyncratic characterization that detective foils are supposed to have. In fact, they don't have much characterization at all. I have nothing to say about Vergier except that he chases Phantom R relentlessly just because he's really dedicated to his job. Charlie had the potential to be a cool rival character but ended up just being kind of a twerp who happens to be a girl. Marie is just... Marie. All you've got left is Raphael, and his characterization is not strong enough to carry the story. I can't even describe him beyond that he's well-meaning, classy, kind of gentlemanly and a little quippy. Why, exactly, does he want to swap out his father's forgeries? What does he really even believe in?
For a game advertised in Japan as being emotional, Rhythm Thief is anything but. Its only jab at a tearjerker moment is with the Duchess non-death, and once again, any impact is robbed by the lack of investment and even moreso by the aftermath. Not even the moment itself draws up much response whatsoever. Unwound Future's "death", however, was built up to -- we see how much Layton cares about Claire all throughout the game, and when she is torn away from him yet again at the very end, it's quite affecting.
I don't know, I just... I'm just disappointed with how all of the aesthetic elements seemed to go to waste, from the smooth, pretty cutscenes to the great animation to the music. A rhythm game with a mysterious, emotional storyline set in Paris with jazz music? It sounded like heaven to me. What followed was instead a mess of storytelling and weak characterization. It's like every element of the story is just a regurgitation of a trope at its most shallow, and the shabbiness of the whole affair really robbed the game of its enjoyment factor for me.
Reading back on what I wrote, maybe I was just expecting way too much from a rhythm game. But with all the time the game spends on dialogue and cutscenes, I thought it was definitely a big point of focus. Anyway, as you can tell by how much I wrote, story is definitely a bit thing for me. >_>
I'm on chapter 9, and I agree with everything you wrote....the fact that I haven't finished it yet should tell you how invested I am in the story that I just read all your spoilers lol. I do kinda like Charlie though.
I have vast problems with the "game" aspects too though. The rhythm minigames repeat too often, especially the napoleon guard ones. The music in most of them is unmemorable, and seems strangely disconnected from the tapping/button presses. The OCD laytonesque tapping on the world map scenes is awful. The "puzzles" where you need a certain sound and they show you where it is with an exclamation point are asinine busywork, like every part of the game that's not a rhythm game. The production values are stellar, but the only time I perked up were during the space channel 5/samba/feel the magic tributes. But all that did was remind me of much better sega games (well this is probably better than feel the magic, small victory there) Oh, and the fact that you can have an A and drop to a C or D with one mistake? Stuuuuupid. Too many annoying qualities in this game. I just want it to end.
While i've yet to read any of the spoiler text from Axelstream I get the sneaking suspicion that I may be agreeing with a lot of it, I must be nearing the end now so I may finish it up today.
Man I have not have had a lot of time for this at all for the past few days due to work and stuff. Almost afraid of reading Axelstream's spoiler text, just because of the possibility of agreeing with it in the end. :x
I have to agree with people saying that the ranking system isn't very lenient because you shouldn't drop from an A to a C or D just because of one thing. Like, when I'm doing stuff that involves gyro and those mechanics don't work well anyway, it's weird and a little frustrating when you have a good streak for once and then one mistake occurs and your streak is shot.
I don't find the puzzles where you have to listen to sounds and put them together annoying because they're really easy and painless to get through so no skin off my back.
Still kinda finding the story intriguing but I'm not as far as some of you. :/
This goddamn poodle minigame. It really shows how much the ranking system sucks in this game. Three misses at the very end shouldn't drop you from A to D rank :/
edit: wtf, I just got an A in this mingame and the list is showing a B. wtf wtf wtf
And as a convenient addendum, it'll also be available on iTunes in NA in mid-August.
Pump up the tempo in the most mysterious rhythm adventure ever to hit the Nintendo 3DS. Raphael has a secret life as a heroic thief who is famous among Parisians for stealing paintings only to return them a few days later. Feel the beat and conquer the rhythmic riddles in pursuit of the hidden truth about the city and his father’s disappearance.
Keep the rhythm going with the official soundtrack, out on iTunes now in many countries, and mid-August in the United States.
Finished it. The bonus chapters are totally not worth it, by the way...they are 2 minutes long and have only one rhythm game each. One RECYCLED rhythm game each......don't bother with the obsessive tapping people. It's not worth an hour of game time of tapping to earn 4 minutes of gameplay/story. And even with all that meandering/wasted time, the game didn't even take me 7 hours to finish/unlock everything aside from the bonus chapter for all A ranks. I'm assuming that's 2 minutes long too. Not gonna suffer through the awful gyro/dog bread games to unlock that LOL
1. It's very hard to do press A button rapidly and precisely on the 3DS.
2. I need fully fledged out Samba Amigo for the 3ds right now. The control has been nailed here. Best game in the package.
The developer should really make up their minds though. You either go full touch screen or go with just buttons. It's annoying switching between the two schemes.
I haven't had any issues at all with any of the gyro games, except R31, but once I figured out what I was doing wrong it was a piece of cake. The gyro games control great in my opinion. I'm surprised they even attempted gyro controls in a rhythm game, but I'm glad they did, because it adds a lot of variety.
Some of the gyro-based games also challenged me quite a bit on the first couple playthroughs. (Alfred in particular.) Will see if I can post some tips for those having trouble with the later stages.
Well, I played it and beat it in... four and a half hours. As someone who's been waiting excitedly for this game since it was first announced, I've gotta say that I'm sorely disappointed... with the story and characters in particular. (So disappointed that I had to get onto NeoGAF and complain about it. :V Counterarguments are welcome.)
Hey remember when I said that when I finally read this i'd probably agree with most of it? I was right!
So yeah I just finished the game myself, most of my plot based points have been addressed already but screw it i'm doing it anyway.
PLOT
- The plot lacks any sort of real hook, I am in complete agreement that the only thing that had me really intrigued was R's dad Papa and it was the bloody cliffhanger for a sequel that may never arrive. Everything towards the end is a bunch of random nonsense really, the hanging gardens to control weather for world domination? I guess I mean it comes out of nowhere and isn't really elaborated on. Everything surrounding the dragon crown is like a bunch of myths that aren't really tied together, we're told it's important but why is that? because it does something bad I guess and that bad thing was raising the gardens? i'm not even sure.
- PHANTOM R GETS SHOT, HOLY SHIT! but it's okay, he got better, nothing solves bullet wounds like hang-gliding as your blood drips down onto the Paris streets. On this note how out of place was that bit? I mean the game almost seems a bit too simple and inoffensive most of the time and being comic in its violence and suddenly we've got a heel turn Francois filling R with lead, he even states it as such, grim.
- Charlie/Charlotte, you know at first I thought he was just crossdressing, then I realised it was meant to be a she, still that isn't my main problem here. Charlie just kind of sucks and is rather unlikeable on the whole. She'd rather perish instead of have Phantom R save her from falling to her death? WHY?! that's some vendetta she's harbouring there and then of course she becomes a stubborn ally in cliche fashion. Also she doesn't sound French at all....
- Voice acting is all over the place, spoken words not matching the text, flat out unsuitable voice tones for certain moments, everyone is either overly french (fair enough) or oddly british.
-The fake Napoleon thing goes by with such little fanfare you could almost miss it, I kind of liked the Saturday morning brand of cartoon villainy this guy had complete with frenchtastic voice over.
- R himself is a pretty so-so character, I expected grand thieving exploits but that whole thing gets dropped pretty quickly and of course he's a upstanding moral character so all his previous thieving antics were for the greater good, that's fine and all but there's just something sort of underwhelming about that, kind of takes the edge off the whole thievery thing but this is more of a personal preference. And I know this is sort of goofy cartoon stuff but how the hell does no on recognise Phantom R? the police see him numerous times but to them and others this guy who actually is Phantom R is just some guy dressed like Phantom R and doing a bang up job, do they not have wanted posters?
The 3D videos are top notch though and it's nice to see them ever present throughout the story. Elsewhere the 3D effect is kind of bland though.
Rhythm Gameplay
Inconsistent, when it's good there is fun to be had, the minigames that work the best tend to be the ones where you mimic a beat pattern, games like
Space channel 5 homage, the Inspector gunning down people in cold blood and so on
since the combination of sound and visual cues is done well enough that you actually get into some sort of rhythm.
Others like those where you jump and slide seem far more reliant on doing what you see as opposed to actual rhythm, I rely on visual cues far more because the beat isn't much to work with.
Gyro can go to hell, this stuff is a mess and i'm usually one for motion controls, it's the middle motion that gives the most trouble, also waving around the screen you need to see is kind of counter productive.
The Charlie hang glider is the cream of the crap crop for gyro, by combining it with buttons things got that much worse.
Scoring system is pants, we have established this, but you can also lose the game entirely far too quickly in some games, case in point
the Inspector's shooting minigame, I nailed the entire thing, buggered up the very last wave and went from A rank to failure in approximately 2 and a half seconds.
And of course the plan to cross Layton style adventuring with Rhythm leads to of course less content on the whole for understandable reasons and also minigame repetition, as such it lasts about 5 hours, not too bad since it is a rhythm game but it doesn't seem that replayable to me but they have certainly tried so hats off on that front.
Final point related to buttons, yes the 3DS face buttons and d pad are a bit finicky, especially when it comes to rapid pressing, I found the one case of using L an R was much better for this and they should have taken that angle more often.
Adventure Gameplay
Looks great, nice character designs, music is better here than in most actual minigames but the actual gameplay here falls to pieces. Incredibly braindead rhythm "puzzles" which are a nice idea but are mostly similar and overly easy. The adventuring part is so on rails regarding puzzle solving that it's kind of insulting, there is always a red path showing you the way, the many tasks involving sound usage are also guided to the point some sounds aren't available until you need it (and it's outright said what you need, "oh if only there was an *insert object/noise* around here!") lying about one of two screens away at that.
Tapping all over the screen for coins and note pieces becomes a chore, it goes for that Layton hint coin approach but takes just that little bit longer to unveil the buggers to the point it feels like a hassle. Add the fact that the plot isn't very compelling and yeah this sort of flounders.
Overall
So I feel as if I really gave the game a beating here, so is it bad? hell no, it's solid. I'm glad to see Sega trying something like this, the actual concept is a great one and it's the sort of experiment I want to see more often not just on the 3DS but across all platforms and i'd be up for an improved sequel. But it did disappoint, I expected better in all departments. I do have to wonder who this game is aimed at, it angles for that Layton style charm and slips up, it feels perhaps too child like at times (I know that's a horrible description that makes me sound as if I need MATURITY but it's the best I can come up with). It's light and easy on adventuring but can get tricky with the rhythm, I don't know, the whole package is just all over the place.
I'm not very far into the game (just started Chapter 3) but I'm loving everything about it. The rhythm games are starting to get a bit harder though. Did you guys went for an A in your very first go in the story mode?
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