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[SenorArdilla]

?

 

[Seductivpancakes]

If the Olympics are above politics, than they should be above making money but that isn't the case.

I support her actions.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

?

They were expelled from the games after doing that.

What's your point?

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Yeah, Ottoman Turkey was a great place. The 320 years of oppression that people like the Greeks faced were just lovely. Having to pay tribute of a child? Oooh that was great. Churches were left standing, but new ones were rarely built so there would be enough room for mosques. That was awesome too. And all the churches confiscated and converted into mosques. That was neat. Of course there were all the Muslim apostates to Christianity who were put to death as well. Great stuff there. Heavy taxation on the Christian population reducing most of us to subsistence farmers? Loved that part.

And the Armenian women, yeah shari'a sure got them justice! Three centuries of oppression topped off by the genocide of three separate groups. Damn, I wish I lived there.

Maybe it was the best shithole in a continent of shitholes, but let's drop the lionizing of the damn place.

Like i said, the genocide was made by Union and Progress movement, and in any case i would certainly agree that the Empire started to enter in decadence in the 18th century, in the 19th they introduced feudalism what lead to a lot of regional uprising.

The Kurds have suffered hard repression and massacres as well and they are muslims. It was an ethnic purification, nothing religious, and it's happen against turkish muslims as well in the balkans in the hand of the christians.

Now if you want to drop making it an emotional issue and read it from a historical point of view, you can study the system of millet and complete decentralisation of the empire and see how plural and open society was the Ottoman societies. Every religious community was ruled by their own leaders and they had their own legal system.
Obviously i am taking that in relation of what was actually existing at the same time, it's doesn't make any sense to do otherwise.

 

[Azuran]

I'm not surprised they kicked her out. After all, Thomas Bach and his cronies don't want to be angering their rich friends over at the Middle East. I'm sure he's looking forward to the bride money he's going to get from Bahrain or Qatar someday in the future.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Now if you want to drop making it an emotional issue and read it from a historical point of view, you can study the system of millet and complete decentralisation of the empire and see how plural and open society was the Ottoman societies. Every religious community was ruled by their own leaders and they had their own legal system.
Obviously i am taking that in relation of what was actually existing at the same time, it's doesn't make any sense to do otherwise.

Doesn't mean much when you could be murdered for apostasy or speaking out against Islam.

But I digress, that's off topic for this thread. I don't feel the need to engage with someone interested in lionizing the Ottomans.

 

[sprsk]

Olympics not allowing political statements is really how it should be. Like in the thread about the Egyptian Judo-ka, politics ruin the sport and the idea of unity during the games. If everyone started bringing their country's baggage into it then the Olympics would probably not last much longer (which I guess could be a good thing if it gets rid lf the IOC).

That said, I'm not about to say what she did here was wrong at all, her protest is justified and it's a fucked up issue that needs more attention.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Egyptian refuses to shake hands with Israeli in judo competion: "Keep politics out of the Olympics!"
Iranian protests against treatment of Iranian women at olympics: "You go girl!"

Seems like people's opinion on whether 'politics' should be on display at the Olympic games isn't a matter of principle but a matter of what side of the politics they're on.

Or, you know, that athletes and audience members are not held to the same standards, that human rights and gender equality are not (or should not be) political, and that brandishing a sign is communicating an idea towards a state, whereas refusing to shake an athlete's hand is an attack on the athlete who is not responsible for whatever policy that Egyptian athlete had a beef with and he acted like an unsportsmanlike dick?

But yeah, nevermind that and go full blown false equivalences because why not. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Doesn't mean much when you could be murdered for apostasy or speaking out against Islam.

But I digress, that's off topic for this thread. I don't feel the need to engage with someone interested in lionizing the Ottomans.

Again, it should be view in relation with the same time period. What was the status of a non-christian, especially a pagan, a heretic or a muslim in the Christian west by the same time period?

I don't care about "lionizing", i just care about history. I could speak lengthy about misconception that we have about the christian europe and the depth of the catholic intellectual philosophy, it wouldn't make me a catholic apologist.

 

[SenorArdilla]

They were expelled from the games after doing that.

What's your point?

Point was that the Olympics never cared much about civil rights or rocking the boat.

 

[Madness]

Or, you know, that athletes and audience members are not held to the same standards, that human rights and gender equality are not (or should not be) political, and that brandishing a sign is communicating an idea towards a state, whereas refusing to shake an athlete's hand is an attack on the athlete who is not responsible for whatever policy that Egyptian athlete had a beef with and he acted like an unsportsmanlike dick?

But yeah, nevermind that and go full blown false equivalences because why not. ¯_(&#12484_/¯

It is crazy when you even think about it. An Iranian woman had to fly to another country to watch her own countrymen compete in a sporting event. She would be beaten, jailed, possibly worse had she tried this in Iran.

Another issue and difference between the judoka situation is the athlete refused to shake his hand after the match almost as if he didn't want to touch him. But here, they intimidated the lady with military members, officials all so that her sign would not be shown on tv to possibly offend Iran or the Iranian olympic committee or others who don't allow women to enter or watch sporting events.

But it is the Streisand effect, many more know about it than they did before. So it makes you wonder, would it have had the same traction if they didn't ban her statement. How many people in the world would see or care about a random sign at an Iranian match.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Point was that the Olympics never cared much about civil rights or rocking the boat.

I mean, in fairness, I don't know what would happen if athletes did a similar display today. The one thing about that whole situation with them getting expelled was that the IOC President, Avery Brundage was a jackass Nazi sympathizer.

 

[TheYanger]

If the Olympics are above politics, than they should be above making money but that isn't the case.

I support her actions.

Those things are extremely unrelated. It's like saying if they're above putting Pineapple on Pizza they should be above political statements.

 

[demon]

On the one hand, I don't see why she should be exempt from a ban on political statements at the olympics. You can't just go around making exceptions for people.

On the other hand, I kind of don't give a shit. She's got brass ovaries and good for her.

 

[soundahfekz]

They were expelled from the games after doing that.

What's your point?

he wont be back after that. he'll hit gaming side for a while until people forget