Robertson Rumor: Tanabe & Retro no longer on good terms, Sakamoto overseeing Retro

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I don't believe anything this guy says. He's full of shit. I don't think he's ever proven he has real insider knowledge either. He just does a good job of paying attention to other insiders and trends and makes educated guesses. Except some of those guesses are not right at all.

He found out Shovel Knight is getting an Amiibo because it leaked on a retailer page?
"Shovel Knight is going to be in Smash"

We haven't heard anything on Star Fox Zero in a while?
"Star Fox Zero is in trouble and NCL is discussing delaying it"

This guy just wants attention.
 
Aaronrules380 said:
Yes. And as I pointed out, the other studios have shown significantly lower quality on non Nintendo projects
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That's fair. The set up is definitely beneficial for studios that don't have much in the way of game design chops, but it's a shame they don't work with any Western developers that they trust to operate autonomously.
 
wrowa said:
He defended his rumor quite vividly even after it was confirmed that Starfox didn't get delayed, which comes off as a desperate attempt to save face to me. First he claimed NCL would have an emergency meeting about Starfox on Friday, when the Direct got announced it suddenly was "actually today" (Wednesday) and now he's saying that the decision not to delay it was made "very recently". At the same time, we know due to the leaks (and NoE's teaser image which was a snapshot from the Direct) that the Direct was already recorded when he claimed that an emergency meeting would take place soon...
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Indeed. How last minute could the decision have been if the Directs are pre-recorded events? The decision wasn't just made. If there was still uncertainty, they wouldn't have had Miyamoto say the game was ready and then give the release date again during the Direct. Either his source wasn't reliable on this information, or the source speculated and it led to poor reporting.
 
A lot of those Sakamoto credits for his contributions to games are special thanks, advisor or designer.

Sakamoto is not why Wario Land 4 is awesome.
 
Aaronrules380 said:
Nintendo's relationship with rare is a pretty unique circumstance for the industry as a whole. Why rare had culture shock when MS took over. And again, why risk catastrophic failure when they've proven that they can succeed on a safer route? That's not good business sense. All of your statements are based on hypotheticals and have no basis in the reality of the products retro has been making. You say a decline in morale will lead to issues, but turnover is common in the west, and despite major turnover after prime 3, retro went on to make an even more successful game
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Rare had culture shock because MS was very controlling. Bringing up MS just makes my point for me - When you have a quality stable of designers and basically treat them like workhorses, it's not going to have a positive effect.

Also, of course DKCR is more successful than Prime 3, lol are you joking? ALL Metroid games are less successful than DKCR, that basically means nothing. Ultimately we look at what Retro has done, and guess what? After Prime 3, Retro has yet to make a game better than anything they have made. And let's not forget how DKCR's biggest flaw was motion controls that Nintendo made them add.
 
A Link to the Past said:
Rare had culture shock because MS was very controlling. Bringing up MS just makes my point for me - When you have a quality stable of designers and basically treat them like workhorses, it's not going to have a positive effect.

Also, of course DKCR is more successful than Prime 3, lol are you joking? ALL Metroid games are less successful than DKCR, that basically means nothing. Ultimately we look at what Retro has done, and guess what? After Prime 3, Retro has yet to make a game better than anything they have made. And let's not forget how DKCR's biggest flaw was motion controls that Nintendo made them add.
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DKC R and DKC TF are amazing and easily on par with the prime games imo, at least in terms of their respective genres
 
NateDrake said:
Indeed. How last minute could the decision have been if the Directs are pre-recorded events? The decision wasn't just made. If there was still uncertainty, they wouldn't have had Miyamoto say the game was ready and then give the release date again during the Direct. Either his source wasn't reliable on this information, or the source speculated and it led to poor reporting.
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That is true. Plus press outlets had apparently played the game like a week or two before the Direct, which does seem to go against his rumor even more
 
Aaronrules380 said:
such as what decisions? Do you have a list of decisions made by NCL rather than NoA? I don't see how you can make this claim without insider info
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What do you think was the purpose of Iwata becoming NoA's CEO? That literally put him in a position to make decisions for NoA.

Aaronrules380 said:
DKC R and DKC TF are amazing and easily on par with the prime games imo, at least in terms of their respective genres
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And as I've noted, DKCR is a great notation for why Nintendo needs to stop treating Retro like any ol' development studio.

Seriously, it is utterly cartoonish to me that people talk about Retro having serious problems with its staff based on the fact that people who haven't worked there for years were problematic. There is actively nothing justifying a short leash on Retro anymore.
 
The other thing about the Star Fox thing is that he was really cheeky about it and was teasing about "oh, it MIGHT be delayed!" but then once he heard about the Dutch Direct leak (which was fairly reputable), only after did he begin to back down and say "oh, well, I think maybe it's not being delayed after all...".

And then AFTER it was confirmed not delayed he went, "The decision not to delay was SUPER last-minute." Something he had NEVER implied at any point during the rumour. What a convenient thing to leave out??
 
HOLY SHIIIIIIIT (if true)

So, Retro are working on Metroid (great rejoicing) but it's being overseen by Sakamoto! FUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Darkest fucking timeline!

I can totally understand Nintendo wanting a member of NCL there on the ground, but wow!

Still, everyone loves a good redemption story. Imagine Metroid Prime 4 comes out to rave reviews, and at the end: "Directed by Yoshio Sakamoto". He would be redeemed. Even a producer credit on a great game would salvage a large part of his reputation.

I'm rooting for you man!

(Time to catch up on the thread, sorry)
 
A Link to the Past said:
Rare had culture shock because MS was very controlling. Bringing up MS just makes my point for me - When you have a quality stable of designers and basically treat them like workhorses, it's not going to have a positive effect.

Also, of course DKCR is more successful than Prime 3, lol are you joking? ALL Metroid games are less successful than DKCR, that basically means nothing. Ultimately we look at what Retro has done, and guess what? After Prime 3, Retro has yet to make a game better than anything they have made. And let's not forget how DKCR's biggest flaw was motion controls that Nintendo made them add.
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Retro is an internal Nintendo team. They make games the power producers at Nintendo want to make. That is how Nintendo works. Also, tropical freeze is on par with the original Metroid Prime. There, I can also make opinions facts to prove a point.
 
A Link to the Past said:
What do you think was the purpose of Iwata becoming NoA's CEO? That literally put him in a position to make decisions for NoA.
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It was to make the communication structure less convoluted since before there was another middleman between Iwata and Reggie. And the main things NoA handles are localization, publishing certain third party games, Marketing, and sales. And given how little unity a lot of those things have between regions, I don't get why you think NCL is responsible for stuff like no new 3ds regular in America for so long (which was probably the right idea anyways)
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
Retro is an internal Nintendo team. They make games the power producers at Nintendo want to make. That is how Nintendo works. Also, tropical freeze is on par with the original Metroid Prime. There, I can also make opinions facts to prove a point.
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All three Metroid Prime games rate more highly than their DKC games. Indisputable fact.
 
Maybe Sakamoto agreed to be more hands off and Retro got what they wanted.

That is, if this is even remotely true. Based on his limited interview time and his appearances in Iwata Asks, Tanabe seems like the type who could be both passionate to the point of obstinance, so it wouldn't shock me if this was the case.
 
I dunno man I liked Other M. As long as Sakamoto isnt doing anything story related I'm fine with him overseeing Retro. Other M was such a fun game to play.

I too would like a third DCKR. Those games have been utterly fantastic. But my Metroid thirst is stronger than anything right now so I need that first.
 
A Link to the Past said:
Nah, I don't see it. If his source gave him bad info, it would be in his best interest to save face. Being defensive can simply be him trying to not become irrelevant.
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Does it matter? Even if the source gave him bad info, everything afterwards was just him making up nonsense because he didn't want to acknowledge his source being wrong. How would I possibly know that he isn't doing the same thing every time this happens? With stuff like this, it's normally impossible to tell whether someone is just making stuff up or not and it was just by chance that yesterday's Direct exposed his rumor as nonsense.

Honestly, I think stuff like this is pretty serious and not a game. If his portrayal of Tanabe is made-up, then he is seriously hurting the reputation of another person just for his own fame. Since I now have my doubts about his general reliability, I'm not going to support that even if what he says might be true.
 
NateDrake said:
Indeed. How last minute could the decision have been if the Directs are pre-recorded events? The decision wasn't just made. If there was still uncertainty, they wouldn't have had Miyamoto say the game was ready and then give the release date again during the Direct. Either his source wasn't reliable on this information, or the source speculated and it led to poor reporting.
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I think he was among the people reporting the "problems" Star Fox Zero was witnessing in development. You see? That's an example of "added pessimism" to a news where his source/s is on point.

Other example? His report about Nintendo not publishing Devil's Third. In that case, it was right (at the time) that DT wasn't getting published by Nintendo (mods here on Gaf hinted at it before him, actually), and he actually stated how Xseed was going to publish it...but again, the way he reported it didn't give enough light to the fact that DT was still getting released, even if by a different publisher. He gave much more relevance to how Nintendo wasn't publishing it.

Another example could be his NST rumour about both the amiibo game and the division becoming mobile-only. The game's real, but, as said by other users (like Vena?), it would be very strange to see NST dedicated just to mobile, considering they aren't specifically for development.
 
Aaronrules380 said:
It's almost like major game reviewers are biased towards certain genres and types of games
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I guess since DKC games aren't very well-regarded - DKC2 especially, everyone hated that game - it makes sense that Metroid Prime would outrate it.

Honestly now, it's pretty embarrassing that your counter is to suggest a cabal of DKC haters.
 
this part from the OP

The majority of those I spoke to about their experiences with Tanabe told tales of how he would quite often explode with great passion on certain designers when one of them either made what he perceived to be a mistake, or boldly challenged a creative decision of his.
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reminds me of a funny bit in the Game & Wario Iwata Asks

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/gameandwario/0/3

Mori

We only had about a month left before the deadline, and Tanabe-san had joined to help us out with 'ISLANDS'. At that point, he suggested that the island should have a kind of resort feel, and that the graphics should feature beautiful natural scenes. At that point, Kobayashi-san and his team responded by saying that with only a month left, making changes on this scale just wasn't realistic.
Iwata

How did you feel about this battle, Mori-san?
Mori

I remember wondering how I'd ended up in such a scary meeting... (laughs)
Iwata

(laughs) So even though they had just joined to offer you assistance, your helpers were fully involved and taking it very seriously.
Mori

Yes, they really were very serious about it. Kobayashi-san and his team proposed that in order to complete the task by the deadline, while maintaining high-quality graphics, they could scale down the overall size so everything in the game was toy-sized. Tanabe-san responded by saying that by making everything compact, you'd totally lose the grandeur of the natural setting. He thought that without the silliness of having the characters flying through the air with a vast natural landscape in the background, it wouldn't be any fun at all, and there wouldn't be any point in it being in a WarioWare game. He even yelled in the end, "NATURAL SPLENDOUR!!"
All

(laughter)
Iwata

Just hearing that, people might get the wrong idea about Tanabe-san's personality. In fact, when he gets involved in the development of a project, he becomes very passionate indeed. (laughs) When I worked for HAL Laboratory, Inc.16, Tanabe-san was our supervisor at Nintendo and listening to this, I'm really reminded of those times.
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Could be good if true, and maybe would mean a new Prime.

Seriously though, they have to be working on something that isn't DK at this point. We will see for sure at E3. My bets are on Prime 4.
 
Escalario said:
Reminder that it's the same guy that said Shovel Knight will be in Smash, Octolings will be playable in Splatoon, there would be a Direct in October 2016, and that there will be a reunion at Nintendo TODAY to talk about delaying or not Star Fox Zero again.

TL;DR he doesn't know shit.
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So basically, he's just spouting shit.
 
Yukinari said:
A lot of those Sakamoto credits for his contributions to games are special thanks, advisor or designer.

Sakamoto is not why Wario Land 4 is awesome.
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Balloon Fight (1984) — Game Designer
Wrecking Crew (1985) — Director, game Designer
Gumshoe (1986) — Director, game Designer
Metroid (1986) — Game Designer
Kid Icarus (1986) — Game Designer
Balloon Kid (1990) — Director
X (1992) — Director
Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (1992) - Scenario Writer
Super Metroid (1994) — Director, Scenario Writer
Teleroboxer (1995) — Director
Galactic Pinball (1995) — Special Thanks
Game & Watch Gallery (1997) — Advisor
Trade & Battle: Card Hero (2000) — Director
Wario Land 4 (2001) — Supervisor
Metroid Prime (2002) — Special Thanks
Metroid Fusion (2002) — Director, Scenario Writer
Wario World (2003) — Advisor
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$! (2003) — Supervisor
WarioWare: Touched! (2004) — Producer
Metroid: Zero Mission (2004) — Director
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (2004) — Special Thanks
Metroid Prime Pinball (2005) — Special Thanks
WarioWare: Smooth Moves (2006) — Producer
Rhythm Tengoku (2006) — Producer
Picross DS (2007) — Supervisor
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (2007) — Special Thanks
Rhythm Heaven (2008) — General Producer
WarioWare: D.I.Y. (2009) — Producer
Tomodachi Collection (2009, Japan exclusive) — Producer
Metroid: Other M (2010) — Director, Producer, Scenario Writer
Rhythm Heaven Fever (2011) — General Producer
Kiki Trick (2012) — Supervisor
Game & Wario (2013) — Producer
Tomodachi Life (2013 in Japan, 2014 worldwide) — Producer

The projects in which he has been a producer is almost impecable in terms of sales and success... but he made Other M so I guess Nintendo should burn him or something.
 
A Link to the Past said:
I guess since DKC games aren't very well-regarded - DKC2 especially, everyone hated that game - it makes sense that Metroid Prime would outrate it.

Honestly now, it's pretty embarrassing that your counter is to suggest a cabal of DKC haters.
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I'm not saying they hate DKC or platformers, but you're fucking kidding yourself if you think that most review sites don't prefer big "epic" adventures that push tech and presentation. The fact that a 2D platformers in the 2000s rated a tiny bit lower than the metroid prime games isn't indicative of much. I've seen plenty of people call DKC:TF was the best 2d platformers ever. But it's been a long time since a 2d platformers ever had the chance of getting perfect review scores
 
This reads like a narrative created out of Nintendo's restructuring. Prior to EPD being formed, Sakamoto was the manager over all of SPD groups, including Tanabe's group #3. If Retro is directly under him now it's because they are now being considered their own group rather than being lead by SPD 3, thus cutting out the middle man. Not sure how this all works out with the EPD merger though. I really doubt there is bad blood with Tanabe.
 
Aaronrules380 said:
I'm not saying they hate DKC or platformers, but you're fucking kidding yourself if you think that most review sites don't prefer big "epic" adventures that push tech and presentation. The fact that a 2D platformers in the 2000s rated a tiny bit lower than the metroid prime games isn't indicative of much. I've seen plenty of people call DKC:TF was the best 2d platformers ever. But it's been a long time since a 2d platformers ever had the chance of getting perfect review scores
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And what of Prime 2? Prime 2 got an unfair shake by a lot of people who found its innovative world off-putting.
 
A Link to the Past said:
All three Metroid Prime games rate more highly than their DKC games. Indisputable fact.
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Your putting such weight on a 3 point metacritic slide between games as proof of them falling apart?

On topic: They are workhorses link and sakamoto is way too high up the ladder to be the day to day producer on their games like shikamaru said.
 
God I hope this is true. Tanabe is great, but I've been saying for years that NCL needs to stop babysitting Retro and let them do their own thing.


BiggNife said:
You do realize that Other M is really the only blemish on an otherwise fantastic track record for Sakamoto, right?



And whatever he's doing at Retro, it would only be in a supervisory role, so he's not going to take over the regins of a theoretical Prime 4 and make it Other M 2.

Sheesh, talk about hyperbole.
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.
 
rhandino said:
Balloon Fight (1984) — Game Designer
Wrecking Crew (1985) — Director, game Designer
Gumshoe (1986) — Director, game Designer
Metroid (1986) — Game Designer
Kid Icarus (1986) — Game Designer
Balloon Kid (1990) — Director
X (1992) — Director
Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (1992) - Scenario Writer
Super Metroid (1994) — Director, Scenario Writer
Teleroboxer (1995) — Director
Galactic Pinball (1995) — Special Thanks
Game & Watch Gallery (1997) — Advisor
Trade & Battle: Card Hero (2000) — Director
Wario Land 4 (2001) — Supervisor
Metroid Prime (2002) — Special Thanks
Metroid Fusion (2002) — Director, Scenario Writer
Wario World (2003) — Advisor
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$! (2003) — Supervisor
WarioWare: Touched! (2004) — Producer
Metroid: Zero Mission (2004) — Director
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (2004) — Special Thanks
Metroid Prime Pinball (2005) — Special Thanks
WarioWare: Smooth Moves (2006) — Producer
Rhythm Tengoku (2006) — Producer
Picross DS (2007) — Supervisor
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (2007) — Special Thanks
Rhythm Heaven (2008) — General Producer
WarioWare: D.I.Y. (2009) — Producer
Tomodachi Collection (2009, Japan exclusive) — Producer
Metroid: Other M (2010) — Director, Producer, Scenario Writer
Rhythm Heaven Fever (2011) — General Producer
Kiki Trick (2012) — Supervisor
Game & Wario (2013) — Producer
Tomodachi Life (2013 in Japan, 2014 worldwide) — Producer

The projects in which he has been a producer is almost impecable in terms of sales and success... but he made Other M so I guess Nintendo should burn him or something.
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Didnt Sakamoto supervised Splatoon??
 
Sakamoto being in charge of Retro means that they can finally make that 2D Metroid game with Donkey Kong's engine that you keep asking for.
 
(The figures of K. Rool and young DK walk away from each other. The scene returns to the present, showing K-Rool's still-stern bulging eye as they stand on the poop deck)

K. Rool: What are you doing here?

DK: The first words out of his mouth were typical, coming from Rool-senpai. To answer his question, I recounted the details of what had brought me to this place (a rhinocerous), and then I asked what circumstances had led the kremlings here.

K. Rool: That information is not for a primate.

DK: The word he so obviously chose, "primate," pierced my heart. I scratched my hairy arse and said

"HaaaoooOOOOOOOooooo Hoooo"
 
A Link to the Past said:
And what of Prime 2? Prime 2 got an unfair shake by a lot of people who found its innovative world off-putting.
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Is nowhere near as big an issue as a 2d platformers. You can't get metroid prime level meta critic scores without 10a realistically. Now name me the last 2d platformer to get a 10 from any major outlet. And the last one that was full price retail as opposed to an indie game, since they're rated on different scales
 
Rodin said:
Maybe when he gets one thing right i'll start to consider what he has to say.

That being said, let's not act like Sakamoto never did and never will do anything good in his career only because of Samus' characterization in Other M.
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I think he will never do any good on Metroid again because of everything in Other M. It's an incredibly flawed game on virtually every level that manages to fuck up all the things I enjoy about Metroid and video games in general. Keep him the fuck away from Metroid. If you think he's so good on his other games, have him do those.
 
Escalario said:
Reminder that it's the same guy that said Shovel Knight will be in Smash, Octolings will be playable in Splatoon, there would be a Direct in October 2016, and that there will be a reunion at Nintendo TODAY to talk about delaying or not Star Fox Zero again.

TL;DR he doesn't know shit.
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To be fair, there's internal evidence to suggest that they were preparing to add playable Octolings to Splatoon.
 
We shall see, terrible studios can produce excellent games and even good studios can flub, they're not perfect entities. I generally have a neutral stance on Sakimoto, firing him for his one creative blemish goes against everything Nintendo stands for.
 
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