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Rosenstein says only he has the power to fire Mueller

J

johnsmith

remember me
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5321bc-4fc6-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein says only he has the power to fire special counsel on Russia

Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein testified Tuesday that if the president ordered him to fire the special counsel handling the Russia investigation, he would only comply if the request was “lawful and appropriate.”

Rosenstein was answering questions from the Senate Appropriations Committee regarding comments Monday from Christopher Ruddy, the chief executive of Newsmax Media and a friend of Donald Trump, that Trump might fire Robert S. Mueller III. Mueller was recently appointed to lead the investigation into whether the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia to influence the 2016 presidential election.

Rosenstein, who has been on the job for six weeks, said only he could fire Mueller, and only if he found good cause to do so. He described Mueller as operating independently from the Justice Department in his investigation.

Asked what he would do if the president ordered him to fire Mueller, Rosenstein said, “I’m not going to follow any orders unless I believe those are lawful and appropriate orders.” He added later: “As long as I’m in this position, he’s not going to be fired without good cause,” which he said he would have to put in writing.

“If there were good cause, I would consider it,” Rosenstein testified. “If there were not good cause, it wouldn’t matter to me what anybody says.

...

In addition, lawmakers wanted Rosenstein to spell out the scope of Sessions’s other recusal, specifically with regard to the Russia investigation, which Sessions announced after reports emerged that he had not fully disclosed meetings with the Russian ambassador to the United States.

“I know what we’re investigating, and he does not,” Rosenstein said to Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii.).
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So, Saturday night massacre incoming?
 
T

TheCochese

Banned
i%2520have%2520the%2520power.gif
 
B

Banana Aeon

Member
Firing Rosenstein to fire Mueller would be the greatest mistake Trump has ever made in his entire life.

So he's bound to do it.
 
S

Snwaters

Member
Natural response, why would he fire Mueller, it'd only bring trouble his way. To do so, Mueller would have to screw up in a big way.
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
Banana Aeon said:
Firing Rosenstein to fire Mueller would be the greatest mistake Trump has ever made in his entire life.

So he's bound to do it.
Click to expand...

He's had so many greatest mistakes to make in his entire life, what's another one, and people will continue on after the period of shock. Business as usual for Trump, I wouldn't put it past him.
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
Said in the other thread, Trump has understaffed the DoJ so I doubt he would have loyalists under the Dep Ag. If Trump fires him it would have to be a long string of people also fired to get someone willing to do so.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
This reads more like a "dare" to me. Trump could still do it, but the political fall out would be huge if Rosenstein doesn't just bend to his will. Rosenstein is essentially saying, "You're gonna have to fire me or fuck with the rules if you want to fire Mueller"
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
The actual consequences or stakes for Trump firing both these men aren't clear to anyone. You have to assume Congress gets worried about future elections at some point, but they've given very little indication that they're willing to buck Trump on anything to date.
 
S

skullmuffins

Banned
Dubbedinenglish said:
Said in the other thread, Trump has understaffed the DoJ so I doubt he would have loyalists under the Dep Ag. If Trump fires him it would have to be a long string of people also fired to get someone willing to do so.
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Yeah. There are only two other senate-confirmed people in the DoJ right now besides Sessions and Rosenstein. If Trump tries to go down the list to find a lackey things will get really weird really fast (I mean, weirder than if this crazy situation happened in a fully-staffed administration).

https://lawfareblog.com/if-trump-fires-mueller-or-orders-his-firing

RustyNails said:
Is the Deputy AG confirmed by Senate?
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Yup.
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
SwiftDeath said:
Why did Trump fire Comey?
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Because he and Sessions thought they could sneak it past under the guise that they were holding him responsible for how he handled the Clinton email case, however that exploded in their face. Mueller is a result of that complete miscalculation. If they do it again, it can only get worse.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Dubbedinenglish said:
Said in the other thread, Trump has understaffed the DoJ so I doubt he would have loyalists under the Dep Ag. If Trump fires him it would have to be a long string of people also fired to get someone willing to do so.
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Yup, and Congress is not going to want to touch this w/ a ten foot pole. They want to be able to write all of their sins off on Trump w/ voters, just like w/ Dubya. Confirming someone explicitly to fire Mueller is not going to happen.
 
S

Snwaters

Member
SwiftDeath said:
Why did Trump fire Comey?
Click to expand...

Because he (Trump) and the Kiebler elf decided that he treated Hillary Clinton unfairly during the election apparently. We still don't know what depth Rosenstein was involved.

Look at the mess Sessions is in now, why would Rosenstein willingly bring this on himself? Especially since it would appear he has no connection to this Russian business. Trump would have to get rid of him, which only make things worse for Trump, in a variety of ways.
 
andythinkpad

andythinkpad

Member
This Rosenstein guy is very smart. Does and say the right thing in the right time keep his ass safe. And he is working himself in the martyr position.
 
J

jelly

Member
Trump will try eventually, Mueller will step on toes and start asking questions, requesting evidence that will make Trump nervous enough to throw the dice.
 
S

Shoeless

Member
Rymuth said:
He certainly won't take kindly to being told that he can't do something
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I think that's pretty much it. Trump can't look weak, so if he's told "You're not strong enough to fire me," he'll forget all about public perception and view Rosenstein as a threat. Then he'll do everything to eliminate that threat.

I think it's probably going to happen. Rosenstein is going to get fired in his effort to fire Mueller. Or he'll try to create new laws that can override Rosenstein somehow and directly remove Mueller himself.

Or, barring that, if he's super desperate, he'll either have Mueller killed by old Mafia contacts, or try to blackmail him into resigning somehow.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
skullmuffins said:
Yeah. There are only two other senate-confirmed people in the DoJ right now besides Sessions and Rosenstein. If Trump tries to go down the list to find a lackey things will get really weird really fast (I mean, weirder than if this crazy situation happened in a fully-staffed administration).

https://lawfareblog.com/if-trump-fires-mueller-or-orders-his-firing
Click to expand...
If the crazy scenario that got me to this point in the hypothetical decision chain materializes, Congress would rise up quickly to stop the President, and the pressure on the cabinet would be enormous as well. If I am naive in thinking this, then we are indeed in trouble.
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See, I do think it's naive to think that Congress would rise up quickly to stop the president.
 
T

titiklabingapat

Member
They pushed Rosenstein under the bus during the Coney firing so this is what they get. Hope he stays very firm. If he gets fired as well, hope he testifies in front of the Senate like Comey did.
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
Felix Lighter said:
Because he and Sessions thought they could sneak it past under the guise that they were holding him responsible for how he handled the Clinton email case, however that exploded in their face. Mueller is a result of that complete miscalculation. If they do it again, it can only get worse.
Click to expand...

Snwaters said:
Because he (Trump) and the Kiebler elf decided that he treated Hillary Clinton unfairly during the election apparently. We still don't know what depth Rosenstein was involved.

Look at the mess Sessions is in now, why would Rosenstein willingly bring this on himself? Especially since it would appear he has no connection to this Russian business. Trump would have to get rid of him, which only make things worse for Trump, in a variety of ways.
Click to expand...

My point was simply that most of us would assume that a logical, rational person acting as president would not have fired Comey let alone in that fashion, especially if it was intended to take pressure off his administration

Hence we cannot view Trump as rational or logical.

Now to be fair I don't necessarily think Trump will fire Rosenstein or try to fire Mueller directly but if either happened, I wouldn't be surprised
 
J

JP_

Banned
Couldn't it go down like Nixon? Where Nixon fired ppl until one of them was willing to fire the special prosecutor? So Trump could replace Rosenstein until that person fires Mueller.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
If you tried to think of a dumber, clumsier more ridiculous way to handle this you could not beat Trump's own blundering ineptitude.

To think that about 30% of voters actually admire this man's mind!
 
D

Damaniel

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
That's where my mind went as well.

Trump fires Rosenstein.

Then appoints someone who will fire Mueller.
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Worked great for Nixon.

Of course, Republicans weren't in power in Congress at the time of the Saturday Night Massacre, so who knows?
 
G

gutshot

Member
GhaleonEB said:
That's where my mind went as well.

Trump fires Rosenstein.

Then appoints someone who will fire Mueller.
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I don't think he would be able to appoint someone right away. I believe they would be subject to Congressional approval.

It would go down the line of succession at the DOJ to who would become acting DAG and that person would have to be the one to fire Mueller.
 
R

RCSI

Member
skullmuffins said:
Yeah. There are only two other senate-confirmed people in the DoJ right now besides Sessions and Rosenstein. If Trump tries to go down the list to find a lackey things will get really weird really fast (I mean, weirder than if this crazy situation happened in a fully-staffed administration).

https://lawfareblog.com/if-trump-fires-mueller-or-orders-his-firing


Yup.
Click to expand...

Based on my understanding, the other DoJ senate-confirmed people will be tackling the options of either protecting the operation of the DoJ or firing Mueller (not out of support for Trump, but to avoid a troubling situation). My understanding of these procedures is lacking, so correct me if I am wrong.
 
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