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[SF Kosmo]

I think maybe they chose the wrong person for the main role going by this trailer. I dont believe this light skin, nerdy, well spoken black guy has trouble navigating around white people. it's just not very believable.

That's not what the movie is about. It isn't about real people, it's about a literary trope, so there's a meta layer that people seem to not be getting here. The Magical Negro is a trope in fiction where some wise old black person will show up at just the right time to deliver some homespun wisdom. It's considered one of those vaguely "positive" but still harmful stereotypes you see in movies. They usually have a kind of Uncle Remus vibe about them, and sometimes actually have magical powers. Think Scatman Crothers from The Shining, or Michael Clark Duncan from The Green Mile. Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption. Probably some others that aren't written by Stephen King.

These characters exist not as diverse casting to attract black viewers, but for the sake of white characters in the narrative, and white audiences, sometimes even solely to give a white racist character a redemption arc (like in American History X or Green Book).

So this movie is about trying to move a character from a one-dimensional helper who exists for the sake of the white characters to a fully formed one with his own wants and desires. It isn't a movie about how bad white people are, it's a movie about how bad white people are at writing black characters.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

it's a movie about how bad white people are at writing black characters.

Really? I don't see that at all in the trailer? You're giving this film a lot of credit. Unless you've seen some sort of interview from the director I have doubts that this is anything approaching intelligent.

 

[SF Kosmo]

You're giving this film a lot of credit based on a trailer. Unless you've seen some sort of interview from the director I have doubts that this is anything approaching intelligent.

I haven't seen the movie and I can't say if it's good or not, I am just saying I understand what it's going for.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I haven't seen the movie and I can't say if it's good or not, I am just saying I understand what it's going for.

Oh, I get it. I get that's something they could be going for. I just don't trust a film produced by these people in 2023 to go there.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I have serious doubts that this movie will be even half as good as this key and peele skit.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Really? I don't see that at all in the trailer? You're giving this film a lot of credit. Unless you've seen some sort of interview from the director I have doubts that this is anything approaching intelligent.

It's literally a movie about this trope.

Magical Negro - TV Tropes

A minority character will step forward to help the protagonist, with their pure heart and folksy wisdom, and possibly magic. They are usually black, but may come from another oppressed minority. They step into the life of the much more privileged …

tvtropes.org

They even put the trope name in the title of the movie. Their error though is assuming most people troll TV tropes.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Ah, so they made an entire movie about a trope 90% of the population don't give a damn about. I'm sure it'll be a great success.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

It's literally a movie about this trope.

Magical Negro - TV Tropes

A minority character will step forward to help the protagonist, with their pure heart and folksy wisdom, and possibly magic. They are usually black, but may come from another oppressed minority. They step into the life of the much more privileged …

tvtropes.org

They even put the trope name in the title of the movie. Their error though is assuming most people troll TV tropes.

I'm well aware of the trope. I would expect a movie like this to be more of pure comedy though and not some rom com. I guess it gets points for that. This isn't going to be some brilliant satire film like Starship Troopers or Robocop or even fucking Borat though.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

I'm well aware of the trope. I would expect a movie like this to be more of pure comedy though and not some rom com. I guess it gets points for that. This isn't going to be some brilliant satire film like Starship Troopers or Robocop or even fucking Borat though.

Definitely not brilliant satire. It's some low hanging fruit for sure.

 

[sharp weiner]

That's not what the movie is about. It isn't about real people, it's about a literary trope, so there's a meta layer that people seem to not be getting here. The Magical Negro is a trope in fiction where some wise old black person will show up at just the right time to deliver some homespun wisdom. It's considered one of those vaguely "positive" but still harmful stereotypes you see in movies. They usually have a kind of Uncle Remus vibe about them, and sometimes actually have magical powers. Think Scatman Crothers from The Shining, or Michael Clark Duncan from The Green Mile. Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption. Probably some others that aren't written by Stephen King.

These characters exist not as diverse casting to attract black viewers, but for the sake of white characters in the narrative, and white audiences, sometimes even solely to give a white racist character a redemption arc (like in American History X or Green Book).

So this movie is about trying to move a character from a one-dimensional helper who exists for the sake of the white characters to a fully formed one with his own wants and desires. It isn't a movie about how bad white people are, it's a movie about how bad white people are at writing black characters.

Is there a movie about how bad black people are about writing black characters? Would like to have a baseline to measure this against.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Looks like dogshit.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Damn the Harry Potter film franchise has gotten weird as fuck.

Magical Negroes and Where to Find Them.

 

[Soodanim]

I've seen some good posts, but my response to the trailer is a much simpler one: I think it's a boring concept.

That's not what the movie is about. It isn't about real people, it's about a literary trope, so there's a meta layer that people seem to not be getting here. The Magical Negro is a trope in fiction where some wise old black person will show up at just the right time to deliver some homespun wisdom. It's considered one of those vaguely "positive" but still harmful stereotypes you see in movies. They usually have a kind of Uncle Remus vibe about them, and sometimes actually have magical powers. Think Scatman Crothers from The Shining, or Michael Clark Duncan from The Green Mile. Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption. Probably some others that aren't written by Stephen King.

These characters exist not as diverse casting to attract black viewers, but for the sake of white characters in the narrative, and white audiences, sometimes even solely to give a white racist character a redemption arc (like in American History X or Green Book).

So this movie is about trying to move a character from a one-dimensional helper who exists for the sake of the white characters to a fully formed one with his own wants and desires. It isn't a movie about how bad white people are, it's a movie about how bad white people are at writing black characters.

I don't think Morgan Freeman in Shawshank is an example of the trope at all. If he was kept as a white character would he be a magical honky? Or is it only the colour of their skin that matters? This isn't a dig at you, I've seen the same example on TV Tropes. Speaking of which...

It's literally a movie about this trope.

Magical Negro - TV Tropes

A minority character will step forward to help the protagonist, with their pure heart and folksy wisdom, and possibly magic. They are usually black, but may come from another oppressed minority. They step into the life of the much more privileged …

tvtropes.org

They even put the trope name in the title of the movie. Their error though is assuming most people troll TV tropes.

This page is full of terrible examples. It has so much trouble coming up with examples that half of it is "But this is why this isn't actually a relevant example". According to that page if a black man ever helps a white man that's it, they're guilty until proven innocent. Sam Jackson's MCU Nick Fury is a prime example of that.

Plenty of examples surely exist, why so many bad examples?

 

[SF Kosmo]

Is there a movie about how bad black people are about writing black characters? Would like to have a baseline to measure this against.

Is there a well known trope about a goofy white friend character in all the black-written movies? How would that work?

 

[SF Kosmo]

I don't think Morgan Freeman in Shawshank is an example of the trope at all. If he was kept as a white character would he be a magical honky? Or is it only the colour of their skin that matters? This isn't a dig at you, I've seen the same example on TV Tropes. Speaking of which...

That's probably fair, I just said it because I was trying to rule of three to get to the Stephen King joke since he's kind of famous for it. But I'm not sure his character was even black in the book.

This page is full of terrible examples. It has so much trouble coming up with examples that half of it is "But this is why this isn't actually a relevant example". According to that page if a black man ever helps a white man that's it, they're guilty until proven innocent. Sam Jackson's MCU Nick Fury is a prime example of that.

Plenty of examples surely exist, why so many bad examples?

It's a pretty recognizable cliche. I see it a lot more in cheesy Christian movies and the like because better movies are more self aware now, but it's pretty hard to deny the prevalence of the trope. It's like "manic pixie dream girls," it's just an archetype you see a lot in the hands of bad writers.

 

[DeafTourette]

I've seen some good posts, but my response to the trailer is a much simpler one: I think it's a boring concept.


I don't think Morgan Freeman in Shawshank is an example of the trope at all. If he was kept as a white character would he be a magical honky? Or is it only the colour of their skin that matters? This isn't a dig at you, I've seen the same example on TV Tropes. Speaking of which...

This page is full of terrible examples. It has so much trouble coming up with examples that half of it is "But this is why this isn't actually a relevant example". According to that page if a black man ever helps a white man that's it, they're guilty until proven innocent. Sam Jackson's MCU Nick Fury is a prime example of that.

Plenty of examples surely exist, why so many bad examples?

I didn't see a list (I'm not clicking on all those links) but the two video examples at the bottom and the Mr. T example at the top are all examples of the Magical Negro trope, even though the Community example is not necessarily "magical", he still exhibits the same abilities... Like how he got the bride and groom to see each in better lights.

The trope has to establish the MN as not having a life, romance, no ambitions, low intelligence/smart AF but nothing to show for it, etc. and whose sole purpose is to help the white protagonist. The Green Mile is such a movie... Michael Clarke Duncan's character exhibited most of those traits... He helped the main characters become better people. He even prolonged the life of the head guard (I can't remember who Hanks played). One could argue Morgan Freeman as "God" was a literal Magical Negro because his whole purpose was to make Bruce a much better person... And that's not how God works according to the Bible/Torah.

 

[Soodanim]

That's probably fair, I just said it because I was trying to rule of three to get to the Stephen King joke since he's kind of famous for it. But I'm not sure his character was even black in the book.

Sorry, my annoyance at TVTropes blinded me and I ruined it! But yeah, apparently the Red character was a ginger Irishman in the book.

It's a pretty recognizable cliche. I see it a lot more in cheesy Christian movies and the like because better movies are more self aware now, but it's pretty hard to deny the prevalence of the trope. It's like "manic pixie dream girls," it's just an archetype you see a lot in the hands of bad writers.

It's one of those weird ones. I immediately recognise the trope and probably saw it plenty growing up, but I can't think of my own examples off the top of my head. Maybe because-as you say-it's fallen out of favour. I've even spent plenty of time in the TV Tropes trap in the past, but this page just seems horribly misguided and spends too much time on one requirement of the trope above the others that are just as necessary.

 

[Sonik]

The movie is being funded/financed/produced almost entirely by white people too lol

Here are the films producers:

Julia Lebedev

Leonid Lebedev

Oren Moverman

Eddie Vaisman

Rita Walsh

Only ones missing are Angel Lopez (Latino) and the director himself, Kobi Libii (black/white mix)

edit: not for me to call them self hating, but definitely in it for a quick buck. Racial tension is very high right now so they probably looking at this with dollar sign eyes. little do they know it will probably be the biggest flop of the year

The first producer also produced Dear White people, another woke atrocity, and is the daughter of a billionaire Russian oligarch. You can't make this shit up

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Are you guys seriously citing Mr. T in Not another Teen Movie? You do realize that's an absurd comedy right? I'm sure they were quite aware.

 

[DeafTourette]

Are you guys seriously citing Mr. T in Not another Teen Movie? You do realize that's an absurd comedy right? I'm sure they were quite aware.

Yep! It was making fun of that trope in the movie ... Just like they were making fun of the obviously pretty girl being called ugly because she wears glasses and overalls. LoL

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Yep! It was making fun of that trope in the movie ... Just like they were making fun of the obviously pretty girl being called ugly because she wears glasses and overalls. LoL

I love that movie. There's even the token black guy. Lol. Come to think of it that might be the last good spoof movie.

 

[jason10mm]

I don't really think most examples of MN are actually MN, to me they need to layer in some homespun plantation magic or something like voodoo to really qualify, otherwise they are just a wise man/witch trope that just happens to be black. But stuff like "the help" that dispense common sense to clueless white people, that might quality a bit though again that is really just a side character doing side character things (they are almost always one dimenional) .

 

[DeafTourette]

I love that movie. There's even the token black guy. Lol. Come to think of it that might be the last good spoof movie.

That's Polarity from Gen V on Amazon Prime Video... Dude hasn't aged much except for the gray hair.

 

[Soodanim]

I didn't see a list (I'm not clicking on all those links) but the two video examples at the bottom and the Mr. T example at the top are all examples of the Magical Negro trope, even though the Community example is not necessarily "magical", he still exhibits the same abilities... Like how he got the bride and groom to see each in better lights.

The trope has to establish the MN as not having a life, romance, no ambitions, low intelligence/smart AF but nothing to show for it, etc. and whose sole purpose is to help the white protagonist. The Green Mile is such a movie... Michael Clarke Duncan's character exhibited most of those traits... He helped the main characters become better people. He even prolonged the life of the head guard (I can't remember who Hanks played). One could argue Morgan Freeman as "God" was a literal Magical Negro because his whole purpose was to make Bruce a much better person... And that's not how God works according to the Bible/Torah.

It's not that I take issue with the trope itself, I just take issue with grouping in characters that either don't fit the trope or fit so loosely that the only thing stopping hundreds of other characters being included is their pigmentation. Side characters don't get as much development as main characters, and if that's all Spike Lee was getting at then it applies to everyone. If not, it needs to have a bit more to it in my eyes. Like with other magical [race] tropes, where you expect something unique to being [race] to be relevant. The wise old Asian is going to draw on some distinctly Asian wisdom.

I think the reason the Key & Peele sketch works is that we've all seen that character that appears with the (perhaps peceived) metaphor.

The Bruce/Evan Almighty example is one I take issue with. Morgan Freeman was cast because he's Morgan Freeman, not to be the black man that helps the white man. For starters he's God, not a man. Could have been any charming old [race] actor, it just so happens that the legendary presence that is Morgan Freeman is black. When it's an unnecessary focus on race to prove a point, it's pointless to me. It's far too vague and you can very easily end up with a situation where the trope is the rule for any positive interracial interaction.

I don't even really think Elroy Patashnik is a good example of it, because that's making fun of it and the general absurdity of everyone in Community rather than relying on it as a writing tool. Complimenting the way people pick up meatballs and asparagus and that having some tangible impact is more of a joke about the white people around Elroy, not him. Then they bring the joke back round to the addiction-esque introduction and how he had to stop doing it because he gets carried away with his incredibly vague yet somehow impactful sentences on these easily manipulated and influenced people. It's not that he's magical helping the normal people, he's normal and they're subnormal (until the end when he's just as bad). In that one clip it actually invalidates Elroy as a magical negro by giving him more character than just that one task, even if you take it in a bubble and ignore the rest of the show.

 

[Sonik]

White characters help black characters --------> White Man's Burden trope

Black characters help white characters ---------> Magical Negro trope


Projecting much? Apparently in this clown world everything has to be analyzed to death through "anti-racist" lenses and surprise surprise, everything is a trope and everything is racist.

"I pissed my pants" Oh great, the having pants racist trope of the white man having fortune while poor African kids are starving. Disgusting

 

[DeafTourette]

White characters help black characters --------> White Man's Burden trope

Black characters help white characters ---------> Magical Negro trope


Projecting much? Apparently in this clown world everything has to be analyzed to death through "anti-racist" lenses and surprise surprise, everything is a trope and everything is racist.

"I pissed my pants" Oh great, the having pants racist trope of the white man having fortune while poor African kids are starving. Disgusting

The WMB trope isn't just helping a black person/family... The black person/family is usually poor and/or going through something they can't get out of. The Blind Side is an example which we're just now finding out was based on falsehoods by the family and took advantage of Michael Oher.

The MN trope is usually about a well to do white person/family who is going through something that doesn't impact their wealth... Usually the kids acting out or the man and woman edging towards divorce or a crisis of conscience and a random black person (almost always someone in service) giving sage advice or some other helpful actions that uplifts the white person/family while that black person is still in the same position they were in to begin with. They're just there to uplift the white person/family.

Just like the Magical Indian is so prevalent... Almost every Native American is shown to have some magical DEEP connection to nature that the (usual) white characters can't fathom but ultimately helps that (usual) white character(s).

And like I've said many times before... Race is still being talked about because it has never been fully dealt with in this country. So many things would be better if we had open and honest discussions about it and we LISTENED to each other.

Enough of this derailing ... Majors is done .... I dislike it but ... He was found guilty of unintentional assault and harassment.

Fuck Doom... Bring Mephisto and Galactus!

 

[TGO]

Great, another tired, racist film written by people who care more about skin color and pushing immutable characteristics than saying anything of substance.

They should listen to Michael

 

[Sonik]

The WMB trope isn't just helping a black person/family... The black person/family is usually poor and/or going through something they can't get out of. The Blind Side is an example which we're just now finding out was based on falsehoods by the family and took advantage of Michael Oher.

The MN trope is usually about a well to do white person/family who is going through something that doesn't impact their wealth... Usually the kids acting out or the man and woman edging towards divorce or a crisis of conscience and a random black person (almost always someone in service) giving sage advice or some other helpful actions that uplifts the white person/family while that black person is still in the same position they were in to begin with. They're just there to uplift the white person/family.

Just like the Magical Indian is so prevalent... Almost every Native American is shown to have some magical DEEP connection to nature that the (usual) white characters can't fathom but ultimately helps that (usual) white character(s).

And like I've said many times before... Race is still being talked about because it has never been fully dealt with in this country. So many things would be better if we had open and honest discussions about it and we LISTENED to each other.

Enough of this derailing ... Majors is done .... I dislike it but ... He was found guilty of unintentional assault and harassment.

Fuck Doom... Bring Mephisto and Galactus!

Except that movies like Dangerous Minds and many others like that have also been accused of that trope and Pfeiffer's character was certainly not rich

 

[Xenon]

Should have been called Forever Shadows of the POC Narrative, Sadly, the people in hollywood are caught in this horrible loop, where everything needs to be filtered through this perspective. They can't even make a simple romantic comedy without it.

It's sad that the dude has to go from D&D to this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The first producer also produced Dear White people, another woke atrocity, and is the daughter of a billionaire Russian oligarch. You can't make this shit up

You're over the target.

 

[jason10mm]

I am curious what the intended audience is. White people that they want to show a black perspective to, or a black audience that wants to chuckle over "yeah, been there, done that" stories of how white folks react to them. The trailer doesn't really seem like a cross over "....Drinking juice in the hood" or even a "I'm gonna get you sucka" or "Black Dynamite" type self mocking but also, at times, poignant type film. You shouldn't wag the finger at one group without wagging back at yourself, I think. Be interesting to see what the personal growth journey for the lead actor is gonna be.

Just saw a trailer for the new "The Color Purple", and it is, as expected, chock full of black people, virtually no cast diversity AT ALL. No hispanics, asians, indians, pacific islanders, arabs, or persians, none of the stuff we see being cast in historical "white culture" films these days. I'm good with that, it would be ridiculous to me to see some korean sharecroppers in rural georgia or whatever, but then again, we are expected to tolerate it in viking shows and the English court, etc. So I'm curious what the BO will be since it is heavily focused on a 12% demographic without any of the "I need to see myself on screen and it's just a made up story anyway" rhetoric pushed at other projects. I think it would be a good litmus test for the potential BO of the MN film.

 

[DeafTourette]

I am curious what the intended audience is. White people that they want to show a black perspective to, or a black audience that wants to chuckle over "yeah, been there, done that" stories of how white folks react to them. The trailer doesn't really seem like a cross over "....Drinking juice in the hood" or even a "I'm gonna get you sucka" or "Black Dynamite" type self mocking but also, at times, poignant type film. You shouldn't wag the finger at one group without wagging back at yourself, I think. Be interesting to see what the personal growth journey for the lead actor is gonna be.

Just saw a trailer for the new "The Color Purple", and it is, as expected, chock full of black people, virtually no cast diversity AT ALL. No hispanics, asians, indians, pacific islanders, arabs, or persians, none of the stuff we see being cast in historical "white culture" films these days. I'm good with that, it would be ridiculous to me to see some korean sharecroppers in rural georgia or whatever, but then again, we are expected to tolerate it in viking shows and the English court, etc. So I'm curious what the BO will be since it is heavily focused on a 12% demographic without any of the "I need to see myself on screen and it's just a made up story anyway" rhetoric pushed at other projects. I think it would be a good litmus test for the potential BO of the MN film.

This is the second film iteration of The Color Purple in theaters. The first was directed by Spielberg in the 80s starring Whoopi Goldberg... This version is based on the musical stage play ... Both based on the book. Which was based on how things were for a lot of black people back in the day around the turn of the century.

I don't understand the push to have POC in EVERYTHING... It's an overcorrection, IMO

 

[March Climber]

This would have been an amazing Wayans comedy movie. The trailer we are being given instead is for a movie that has an identity crisis. Comedy? Parody? Fantasy? Rom com? Who knows

 

[Mistake]

I don't understand the push to have POC in EVERYTHING... It's an overcorrection, IMO

This is probably my biggest issue with culture issues and media nowadays. There are natural ways to introduce different things, but it's really obvious when the writing suffers and they're shoving it down your throat by checking off boxes. And you know what, I can name more POC actors, athletes and artists than I can white ones. I never heard complaints when Michael Jordan was breaking backboards, because talent shines through no matter who it is

 

[LegendOfKage]

This is the second film iteration of The Color Purple in theaters. The first was directed by Spielberg in the 80s starring Whoopi Goldberg... This version is based on the musical stage play ... Both based on the book. Which was based on how things were for a lot of black people back in the day around the turn of the century.

I don't understand the push to have POC in EVERYTHING... It's an overcorrection, IMO

I think the magical negro trope itself was an overcorrection of sorts. My assumption is the writers were thinking "I don't think black people have been important enough in movie rolls, and I'd like to do something about that, but I wouldn't feel comfortable writing a black protagonist... I know! I'll put a black man in my movie, but I'll make him MAGIC!"

It honestly reminds me a bit of this:

 

[CGNoire]

The biggest WTF in all this is the sudden turn into a RomCom....like what?

 

[John Bilbo]

That's not what the movie is about. It isn't about real people, it's about a literary trope, so there's a meta layer that people seem to not be getting here. The Magical Negro is a trope in fiction where some wise old black person will show up at just the right time to deliver some homespun wisdom. It's considered one of those vaguely "positive" but still harmful stereotypes you see in movies. They usually have a kind of Uncle Remus vibe about them, and sometimes actually have magical powers. Think Scatman Crothers from The Shining, or Michael Clark Duncan from The Green Mile. Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption. Probably some others that aren't written by Stephen King.

These characters exist not as diverse casting to attract black viewers, but for the sake of white characters in the narrative, and white audiences, sometimes even solely to give a white racist character a redemption arc (like in American History X or Green Book).

So this movie is about trying to move a character from a one-dimensional helper who exists for the sake of the white characters to a fully formed one with his own wants and desires. It isn't a movie about how bad white people are, it's a movie about how bad white people are at writing black characters.

This is some new kind of thinking for me. I've seen the bolded movies, but never saw the characters as magical negroes. I guess God in Bruce Almighty falls in the same category aswell?

So hypothetically if Dumbledore was black but Harry Potter white then Dumbledore could be considered a magical negro? Same would go for Gandalf?

Would same go for any older wiser black man mentor character if the protagonist was white?

Is that the code? Black mentor character for a white protagonist makes the black mentor a magical negro? If the protagonist was also black then the mentor wouldn't be a magical negro?

 

[SF Kosmo]

So hypothetically if Dumbledore was black but Harry Potter white then Dumbledore could be considered a magical negro? Same would go for Gandalf?

No, they aren't usually actual magic (though occasionally they are). It's usually more about an Uncle Remis archetype delivering simple homespun wisdom at just the right time or whatever.

Or sometimes characters that are just reduced to support roles on the white man's journey. Green Book was a really hamfisted example of this, because it's this movie that should clearly be about this very fascinating man Don Shirley and somehow the movie becomes the story of how his mook driver learned not all black people eat fried chicken.

Would same go for any older wiser black man mentor character if the protagonist was white?

Like all tropes, there are degrees. If that character is poorly formed and has no real purpose other than the help the white character along? Probably. If he talks like a folksy old Uncle Remus? Definitely.

 

[Sonik]

It's usually more about an Uncle Remis archetype delivering simple homespun wisdom at just the right time or whatever.

That's called a mentor

Or sometimes characters that are just reduced to support roles on the white man's journey.

That's called a supporting character

 

[SF Kosmo]

That's called a mentor

That's called a supporting character

And if your characters are dumbass racial stereotypes then?

It's like the wise old Asian king fu master trope (sometimes referred to as Magical Asians, btw). The racialized portrayal is a defining characteristic.

 

[jason10mm]

And if your characters are dumbass racial stereotypes then?

It's like the wise old Asian king fu master trope (sometimes referred to as Magical Asians, btw). The racialized portrayal is a defining characteristic.

But when it IS NOT an asian kung fu master (see the Ancient One in the Dr. Strange film) then folks bitch and say it's cultural appropriation or race swapping. I thought Batman Begins did a fun job poking fun at the MA trope by having it be Liam Nesson all along (spoilers....I guess?).

My issue with the "Magical X" concept is that is often just lazy race baiting. Look at Mary Poppins for example. Mysterious magic lady with no real backstory (that I can remember) shows up and "fixes" a rcih white family. So is it MN, MA, or what depending on the race of the actor? She has that posh brit accent usually, basically a stereotype of the prim and proper English aristocracy. But if it's Michelle Yeoh instead and she teaches them kung-fu flying instead of umbrella flying is it now a Magical Asian?

Or the James Earl Jones retired baseball player in The Sandlot. He goes from threatening (well, threatening dog anyway) to kind and wise, just content to hang out in his house of memorabilia, and even "fixes" the white kids problem by giving him a team signed ball to replace the one he took from his step-dad. Does the race of the actor alter the characteristics of the role?

Or the old guy in Home Alone. He is certainly feared by Kevin, but eventually they bond and he helps Kevin out. Does the race matter? Does the fact that Kevin help HIM out by getting him to reunite with his son alter the simplistic "old person dispensing wisdom" aspect of the trope? If it was Robert Guillame (of "Benson" fame, just thinking of an early 90's era actor that might fit) would it now be a MN or not?

What about Al Powell (or even Argyl) in Die Hard? They are black, they both dispense some wisdom, neither are really developed much, and both kinda pop in to save the lead and thats about it. I would say these are both just great side characters that further the main characters journey, serve important roles, but are not the focus. That they are both played by black actors is just happy coincidence because I can't imagine ANYONE else in either role, perfect casting.

So my point is that while the MN trope is kind of real, and certainly there are extreme enough examples of it, it's also often just a product of casting without any real intent behind it. Is it strong enough to be a foundation of a film? I'm not sure. These "subvert expectation" type experiences are very hit or miss. Just how many "she is the usual damsel in distress.....hold on now, she's actually a retired special forces combat instructor, watch out bad guys!!" films actually work well? ("The Hunt" is one of the few that did, IMHO)

 

[John Bilbo]

No, they aren't usually actual magic (though occasionally they are). It's usually more about an Uncle Remis archetype delivering simple homespun wisdom at just the right time or whatever.

I searched the internet and found the Wikipedia article for Uncle Remus. It seems it is part of the Uncle Remus character is to have the dialogue written in a deep-south dialect.

Uncle Remus himself is a fictional character sharing apparently real collected folk-tales from different southern black American storytellers in the 1800s.

Or sometimes characters that are just reduced to support roles on the white man's journey. Green Book was a really hamfisted example of this, because it's this movie that should clearly be about this very fascinating man Don Shirley and somehow the movie becomes the story of how his mook driver learned not all black people eat fried chicken.

I haven't seen Green Book. Is it essential viewing for understanding the trope?

Like all tropes, there are degrees. If that character is poorly formed and has no real purpose other than the help the white character along? Probably. If he talks like a folksy old Uncle Remus? Definitely.

So it is crucial for the black character to help a white character. A magical negro character couldn't exist without a white character in need of help? A bit like a genie in a lamp waiting to be awakened.

 

[Chuck Berry]

The title of the movie sounds like an old MAD magazine or Cracked bit

 

[Clear]

That's not what the movie is about. It isn't about real people, it's about a literary trope, so there's a meta layer that people seem to not be getting here. The Magical Negro is a trope in fiction where some wise old black person will show up at just the right time to deliver some homespun wisdom. It's considered one of those vaguely "positive" but still harmful stereotypes you see in movies. They usually have a kind of Uncle Remus vibe about them, and sometimes actually have magical powers. Think Scatman Crothers from The Shining, or Michael Clark Duncan from The Green Mile. Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption. Probably some others that aren't written by Stephen King.

Kinda unfair to loop Morgan Freeman in there as Red in Shawshank isn't black in the original novella and I don't recall there being any comment/reference to his ethnicity in the movie. A thing I suspect probably appealed greatly to the actor given his past comments on related topics.

That being said, the magic negro trope is absolutely real and it doesn't take much to see why some would take offence to it, even though in itself isn't I believe intrinsically harmful or offensive.

Here's the problem though; as you just have done, its easy to impose the stereotype on any character that is seen as wise or reliable if they happen to be portrayed by an actor of colour. If you have a mind to, its easy to project intention when there isn't one there.

Once you start down that road of thinking, and start casting/re-writing accordingly such that any role must be contrived to accommodate a minority performer, but avoid these older "harmful" stereotypes, we end up where we are now. Representation that falls into a new, fashionably PC, strait-jacket of possibilities. Female leads that are infallibly powerful, the lionization of victimhood/apologia for bad behaviour by any member of an arguably oppressed group, or an ironic inversion of a former trope.

I just honestly find it to be an unproductive, unhelpful and ultimately divisive way of looking at things.

 

[jason10mm]

I searched the internet and found the Wikipedia article for Uncle Remus. It seems it is part of the Uncle Remus character is to have the dialogue written in a deep-south dialect.

....

So it is crucial for the black character to help a white character. A magical negro character couldn't exist without a white character in need of help? A bit like a genie in a lamp waiting to be awakened.

I think you COULD restrict the MN trope to just two types of very specific depictions of black people. One is the grizzled farm hand (to be kind, straight up field slave if the time period permits) who seems content with their life, is kinda spry, and dispenses wisdom at the right time. Often with a straw hat, plaid or white shirt, and denim bib overalls. Usually a corn cob pip or stick of straw in their mouth. We can all envision this character.

The female version is a plump matronly woman, wearing an apron, often that bandana head scarf thing, who sits the lead down, serves them some strong coffee, a plate of biscuits and gravy, and gives them some "real talk", then cleans up their mostly uneaten plate of southern cooking and heads back into the kitchen, leaving the lead character a bit wiser about what course of action they should pursue. This type of lady used to be a syrup spokeswoman.

Both of these I agree are bad writing stereotypes and should be VERY carefully used, if ever. But the ROLE these types of characters play is an important one in a good story, Joseph Campbell calls it out specifically as a 'proper' hero can't go it all alone and needs guidance, assistance, and mentorship (this is where the typical "strong female protagonist" falls short, IMHO) and these side characters often serve as a conscious for the protagonist or to voice the thoughts of the audience. It's the "down home suthurn' black folk" set dressing thats the issue, not the part they play, I think. It's hard to make complex and naunced side characters, particularly if you don't want to upstage the lead if that actor is a bit inexperienced and hired mostly because of looks or popularity with the audience rather than acting chops. So it's lazy writing shorthand to just fall back on stereotypes to quickly inform the audience of who the side character is and what role they are about to play. But it WORKS. We all know that the old guy in a shaolin temple is about to hand down the five finger death punch technique, and mammy in the kitchen is gonna serve up a plate of grits along with a life lesson that the lead will ignore at their own peril.

So how to craft a film that explores this concept? Where to take it?

 

[SF Kosmo]

I searched the internet and found the Wikipedia article for Uncle Remus. It seems it is part of the Uncle Remus character is to have the dialogue written in a deep-south dialect.

Uncle Remus himself is a fictional character sharing apparently real collected folk-tales from different southern black American storytellers in the 1800s.

Yeah Uncle Remus an old paternal black character who tells stories with a little lesson to white children in a folksy homespun kind of way. Deeply rooted in house slave archetypes, it's kind of the male analog to the "mammy" or "aunt" stereotype.

The magical negro is kind of derivative of this, playing on the kind of simple, down-home wisdom of the uneducated, servile black character who is just there to help the white folks.

I haven't seen Green Book. Is it essential viewing for understanding the trope?

No,Green Book is this weird example of the writer taking this fascinating real world character, who is extremely educated and sophisticated and also has a really interesting story, and kind of shoehorning him into the magical negro support role to this white character who is this absolute idiot mook white character who never does anything interesting, and it's so jarring.

Like on paper it feels like it should be a reverse Driving Miss Daisy, but somehow the black guy still gets shafted. It's fascinatingly bad.

But Don Shirley is kind of the opposite of a magical negro stereotype, like he's an actual genius classical composer, who spoke 8 languages and attended an elite conservatory in Russia. And then decides to tour the deep south in a time when it was dangerous for a black man to do so. He very clearly is meant to be the main character. The problem is the writer of the movie doesn't understand this at all and sidelines him to the white idiot. We never get any exploration of Don Shirley or his motives, he exists solely to help challenge the white guy's racial prejudices.

So it is crucial for the black character to help a white character. A magical negro character couldn't exist without a white character in need of help? A bit like a genie in a lamp waiting to be awakened.

Yes exactly. It's rooted in nostalgic slave era stereotypes where blacks existed to take care of the white folks in the house.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Maybe I haven't seen it in a while but isn't Andy Dufrane the wise character that Morgan Freemon learns from throughout Shawshank Redemption?

 

[John Bilbo]

Yeah Uncle Remus an old paternal black character who tells stories with a little lesson to white children in a folksy homespun kind of way. Deeply rooted in house slave archetypes, it's kind of the male analog to the "mammy" or "aunt" stereotype.

Huh. From the Wikipedia page I got the impression he tells the stories to his relatives:

Uncle Remus is a kindly old freedman who serves as a story-telling device, passing on the folktales to children gathered around him, like the traditional African griot.

I haven't read the books though so I don't know.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I don't think Red from Shawshank works anyway since he has his backstory and motivations.

 

[John Bilbo]

I don't think Red from Shawshank works anyway since he has his backstory and motivations.

I thought he was the main character. Maybe it is time to watch the movie again.