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[QuantumZebra]

So I'm laid up this weekend with a stomach flu and needed a comfort movie session. I just got the Raimi trilogy on Blu-ray and this was the perfect time for it. I felt they deserved a write up after all the Superhero films they spawned.

So here's my take on seeing them again for the first time in 17 (!?!) years:

*I haven't gotten to see Logan or Wonder Woman and I know I'm horrible for it - one of them will surely shake up this list, haven't seen Homecoming either*

-----

Spider-Man 1 is still one of the best superhero origin films ever (Superman 78 and Batman Begins are a tie with it if not right above). Dafoe channeled Ian McDiarmid's hammy evil old guy perfectly. Tobey nailed Peter Parker and was a great Spider-Man. Franco and Kirsten were damn good as well. Visuals still held up!

Spider-Man 2 is in my opinion the best superhero film ever, and watching the 2.1 version only cemented that belief. Doc Ock was a great villain and the love triangle between Harry, Peter, and MJ was believable and aged well. The train scene is still the GOAT superhero flick moment.

And finally, the one I wanted to address the most:

Spider-Man 3. I am now turning on my own original opinion. I think it's a really good superhero movie.

Yes I know for some that discredits me completely, but hear me out.

Spider-Man 3 tried to tackle way too much in one film. What made the previous 2 so compelling was the singular villain that has ties to Peter/Spidey and isn't really a villain at first.

SM3 still held to the sympathetic villain arc, though, and I think the last act was actually done as well as it could have been for all the loose ends it was trying to tie up. I am going against the grain now but I think Topher Grace worked in some ways for Venom. He has that entitled asshole thing down and as Predators showed, he can play a villain. The bell sequence in the Church showing the symbiote taking over Eddie was great, too.

Sandman was totally unnecessary but they do justify it somewhat in the end; showing him to be Ben's real killer

The most compelling arc of this one and all the films is IMO Harry's. He goes from good to bad to neutral and back to good... and I wish it had been handled in a deeper and more focused way. But, his ending was still a complete and honest one.

My only critiques of the film really are dick head emo Peter, and Sandman bloating the film with what should have been more focus on Eddie, Gwen, MJ, Harry, and Peter (plenty of characters there already).

And it had way too much damsel in distress shit. At least MJ got a shot on Venom and saved Peter from being lunchmeat, tho.


TL;DR still the best superhero trilogy next to Nolan's Batman. Spider-Man 2 definitely not a nostalgia thing, still GOAT. Spider-Man 3 wasn't bad and tied things up well.

And no I haven't seen either ASM film and don't plan to unless I get them free or something.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

I rewatched the entire trilogy not a month ago. 1 is flawed but still very charming. And...

Spider-Man 2 definitely not a nostalgia thing, still GOAT.

The truth.

 

[Nerdkiller]

Ohhh, I've been looking for an excuse to post this tweetchain from Film Crit Hulk.

https://twitter.com/FilmCritHULK/status/882994751019995136

THE LEVEL OF COGNITIVE DISSONANCE BETWEEN HULK AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE THE FIRST TWO RAIMI SPIDERMANS IS, LIKE, A UNIVERSE WORTH.

OKAY, LET'S DOUBLE DOWN ON THIS. PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE PETER IS AN ACTUAL DORK, AND NOT A SECRET COOL KID WHO MAKES THEM FEEL COOL. PETER IS SINCERE, AWKWARD, GOOFY, DOOFY, AND FULL OF AW SHUCKS EARNESTNESS AND TOBEY PLAYS IT PERFECTLY. THAT'S THE CHARACTER. WITH THIS, SEEING THE OLD FAMILIARS PROP UP WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE RAIMI'S WORK "CORNY / CLICHED / COULDN'T GET INTO IT", WORDS THAT DON'T REALLY DESCRIBE WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING. BECAUSE WHAT RAIMI IS, IS ESSENTIALLY THE ANTI-NOLAN.

HE JUMPS TONES, TEXTURES, OFTEN (BUT ALL DIRECTED FROM STORY NEED) - BUT MORE SO, WE WEARS A BIG EMOTIONAL SINCERE HEART ON THE SLEEVE. AND WHAT THIS IS TERRIBLE FOR IS INDULGENCE, FOR NAKEDLY PUTTING YOURSELF INTO A MOVIE AND WANTING TO FEEL AWESOME. THE PROBLEM WITH SAM RAIMI FOR SOME PEOPLE IS THAT HE DOESN'T MAKE YOU FEEL EMPOWERED... HE MAKES YOU FEEL HUMAN.

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY HULK ADORES HIM.

 

[kunonabi]

Never a fan of the raimi trilogy personally. I can tolerate the first because of Dafoe but I hated the two sequels. The first ASM is still the only worthwhile Spider-Man film as far as im concerned.

 

[Volimar]

^Didn't care for Doc Ock? I thought he was done pretty well.

The first two films are a lot of fun. The third, eh...

 

[daTRUballin]

Spider-Man 3 was decent. Not as good as the first, but probably better than the second.

Besides Doc Ock, the second movie was ehhh. I haven't watched it in years though, so maybe I just don't remember a lot of it.

 

[Caode]

I'm not going to go in to Spider-Man 3 since it'll just turn in to a page long rant, one of the few films I (almost) walked out of.

The first one hasn't aged as well as Spider-Man 2 but it does still manage to work, it's a charming film that reminds me of Donners approach to Superman.

Spider-Man 2 is still up there as one of the greats in the genre, just behind Batman Begins and The Dark Knight for me.

 

[Fallen_Hero]

I, too, initially thought the third movie was bad. But after watching it a few more times, it grew on me and I consider it pretty good with some endearing and memorable moments.

 

[LionPride]

Not a fan of any of em really

Peter is awful
MJ is awful
Harry is aight
JJJ is good
Goblin is aight
Ock is good
Sandman is blech
Venom is aight
The villains are all just people with a "tragic backstory" that is not needed for every villain
The train fight is good, not phenomenal or spectacular but good
Lotta cheesy shit that ain't come across well
Macy Gray

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Rewatched the trilogy before I saw Homecoming and this is now my new opinion of them.

The 1st to me is the overall the best out of the trilogy. Obviously the sequels have better action but I think Spidey 1 has the best balance.

With the 2nd and 3rd films, I think the 2nd isn't as good as I remember and the 3rd isn't as bad as I remember.

 

[JeffZero]

I actually just watched these for the first time last week. Unfortunately, I wasn't a fan of any of them. There was some decent acting in 1, though, and 2 was a stronger movie overall. I just wasn't a fan of the cast, premise, or... anything, really.

3 was pretty bad, but the first two are -- on a more objective basis -- decent.

 

[Sojgat]

Ohhh, I've been looking for an excuse to post this tweetchain from Film Crit Hulk.

https://twitter.com/FilmCritHULK/status/882994751019995136

That's not really why people don't like Tobey. While the character works well enough as his own thing, he's just not faithful to the source material at all. Tobey's Peter isn't an earnest doofus, he's a straight up creepy weirdo. As Spider-Man he barely manages a half-dozen quips over the course of the entire trilogy. Also, Peter Parker has sure as hell never been some secret cool kid.

I agree with the stuff about Raimi being the anti-Nolan though.

 

[LionPride]

That's not really why people don't like Tobey. While the character works well enough as his own thing, he's just not faithful to the source material at all. Tobey's Peter isn't an earnest doofus, he's a straight up creepy weirdo. As Spider-Man he barely manages a half-dozen quips over the course of the entire trilogy. Also, Peter Parker has sure as hell never been some secret cool kid.

I agree with the stuff about Raimi being the anti-Nolan though.

Day by day he gazed upon her,
Day by day he sighed with passion,
Day by day his heart within him
Grew more hot with love and longing
For the maid with yellow tresses.
But he was too fat and lazy
To bestir himself and woo her.
Yes, too indolent and easy
To pursue her and persuade her;
So he only gazed upon her,
Only sat and sighed with passion
For the maiden of the prairie.

 

[Nerdkiller]

Day by day he gazed upon her,
Day by day he sighed with passion,
Day by day his heart within him
Grew more hot with love and longing
For the maid with yellow tresses.
But he was too fat and lazy
To bestir himself and woo her.
Yes, too indolent and easy
To pursue her and persuade her;
So he only gazed upon her,
Only sat and sighed with passion
For the maiden of the prairie.

Oh, just punch me now.

Spoiler

Because I bleed.

 

[Jigorath]

Spider-Man 2 is so great.

Ohhh, I've been looking for an excuse to post this tweetchain from Film Crit Hulk.

https://twitter.com/FilmCritHULK/status/882994751019995136

OKAY, LET'S DOUBLE DOWN ON THIS. PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE PETER IS AN ACTUAL DORK, AND NOT A SECRET COOL KID WHO MAKES THEM FEEL COOL. PETER IS SINCERE, AWKWARD, GOOFY, DOOFY, AND FULL OF AW SHUCKS EARNESTNESS AND TOBEY PLAYS IT PERFECTLY.

Yep, yep, yep.

Tobey's Peter is an awkward and uncomfortable dork and it's perfect. It's the reason why there's so much awkward dialogue with MJ. Peter is a social outcast and a loner and he's trying to talk to the girl of his dreams. He's not going to approach the conversation with bravura and confidence.

 

[Haines]

I like raimi style and he did some great spidermans.

You have to remember how ahead of the time these movies were. Almost 20 years ago is crazy.

Even the new spiderman still struggled to make you feel like you were in that spidey universe as much as they did

 

[LionPride]

I like raimi style and he did some great spidermans.

You have to remember how ahead of the time these movies were. Almost 20 years ago is crazy.

Even the new spiderman still struggled to make you feel like you were in that spidey universe as much as they did

Disagree

Heavily disagree

 

[JeffZero]

I like raimi style and he did some great spidermans.

You have to remember how ahead of the time these movies were. Almost 20 years ago is crazy.

Even the new spiderman still struggled to make you feel like you were in that spidey universe as much as they did

I wouldn't really know because I didn't grow up with comics or anything, but I enjoyed the universe of Homecoming markedly more than Raimi's.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

The first one is a solid origin film while the second one is still the best Spiderman movie for me.

The third one is just barely better than Amazing Spiderman 2. I haven't seen the latest cut they used on the most recent home release and I hope they made it somewhat more tolerable.

 

[Raziel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICpP6pmn7o

Seeing Spider-Man depicted on film as he is today with no style (ASM, HC) is a damn sorry sight.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Ohhh, I've been looking for an excuse to post this tweetchain from Film Crit Hulk.

https://twitter.com/FilmCritHULK/status/882994751019995136

This is amazing and true

 

[WoolyNinja]

Ha, I just did this as well. I honestly didn't love these movies as much as most on GAF did so I was interested to give them a rewatch after a few years.

The rewatch has convinced me I was wrong. I think all 3 (yes, even the third one) compare well to any Marvel or DC movies coming out today. What really surprised me were the special effects, as 90% of them were great!

 

[kmfdmpig]

I have fairly similar thoughts.

Spider-Man 1 seemed less great when I rewatched (Dafoe is a great actor, but I hated much of the GG role).
Spider-Man 2 remained great with everything clicking and Molina turning in a great performance.
Spider-Man 3 is a bit too busy, for sure and there are bad parts, but it was much better than I had remembered. I think that in some ways SM3 suffered due to the quality of SM2 raising expectations, which made it easy to let people down.

 

[Disgraced]

Bad is always more memorable than good, and the bad of Spider-Man 3 is so bad (and the silly is so silly) that the reputation of the series as a whole is tarnished, especially in retrospect.

Spider-Man 2 is the greatest superhero film of all time. Fucking nobody has a made a superhero film like Raimi did.

 

[phanphare]

Not a fan of any of em really

Peter is awful
MJ is awful
Harry is aight
JJJ is good
Goblin is aight
Ock is good
Sandman is blech
Venom is aight
The villains are all just people with a "tragic backstory" that is not needed for every villain
The train fight is good, not phenomenal or spectacular but good
Lotta cheesy shit that ain't come across well
Macy Gray

this for me except make JJJ great and Goblin good

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

SM1 & 2 are legit amazing to this day. The chocolate cake scene in the second film is still more resonant than any other scene in a comic-book adaptation since.

But

Can we please stop the revisionist history that's starting on SM3? That movie is a fucking turd. Retconning Uncle Ben's death to say 'OH, THIS IS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED' was deplorable storytelling.

 

[Disgraced]

Can we please stop the revisionist history that's starting on SM3? That movie is a fucking turd.

I don't know about you, but when I go number two, it doesn't always smell so bad. And sometimes the relief... it feels pretty good. Poo isn't always so... pooey, you know?

 

[Subpar Spatula]

First 2 are amazing and show what's missing from almost all new super hero movies.

 

[Oersted]

Maguire elevates these movies. I grew up with wisecracking Cartoon-Spidey and that one doesn't hold a candle against Tobey. We need more characters and performances like that in mainstream cinema.

 

[Haines]

Disagree

Heavily disagree

I have no problems with that.

To be fair i loved the new spidey, and i loved the neighorhood bits the most.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Maguire elevates these movies. I grew up with wisecracking Cartoon-Spidey and that one doesn't hold a candle against Tobey. We need more characters and performances like that in mainstream cinema.

Fans don't find it fun.

Fun is needed.

You know. Fun.

 

[Nerdkiller]

Yep, yep, yep.

Tobey's Peter is an awkward and uncomfortable dork and it's perfect. It's the reason why there's so much awkward dialogue with MJ. Peter is a social outcast and a loner and he's trying to talk to the girl of his dreams. He's not going to approach the conversation with bravura and confidence.

This is amazing and true

He also recently covered what he had to say about Homecoming and how it compares to the past Raimi movies in his latest article (don't worry, no more Hulkspeak in these things).

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/07/14/film-crit-hulk-smash-spider-man-the-marvel-fatal-flaw

Like I said it at the beginning: movies are big, complicated things. And despite all of this criticism, believe it or not, I actually liked Spider-Man: Homecoming a whole bunch, because there's just so damn much to like. But I can't help but feel like that if this is what the film is really about beneath the surface, as are all the recent MCU entries, then that is a massive issue that can't help but gnaw at me. Not just because Marvel has learned to do so many other things right, but because these movies are an important part of how our society helps reflect what we think heroism "is" in the face of adulthood.

Meanwhile if you ask me what Wonder Woman's about, I can tell you. It's about love in the face of cynicism. It's about women's capacity for strength, empathy, joy, sadness, sex, and entire personhood. It's about men's capacity for those same things against the toxic pressures of the world around them. It is about not staying put, not out of juvenile frustration, but out of the living heart of empathy and taking responsibility. And it backs up these ideas so concretely through dramatization that, despite every narrative fumble, despite all the things the MCU does better, by the time she leaps into the horizon my heart swells with my belief in her. And it's the reason I think a lot of people felt the same way. You read the stories everywhere of so many young girls and boys taking the lessons of the film into life with passion and fortitude. To that, it's safe to say that Wonder Woman nails the single most important thing.

Similarly, I asked Twitter last week about the cavernous gulf between how I saw Sam Raimi's Spider-man 2 and the people who did not like it. The discussion mostly focused on the tangibles of the actors, the textures of cinematography, the feelings of what we liked and didn't like. But me? I kept talking about what the film is about. Because it's about the genuine cost of heroism and responsibility. It's about the way adults come together to support each other in the nobler pursuits. It's about establishing all the reasons that the world is worth fighting for (while the MCU keeps forgetting to establish why the world is worth fighting for. Perhaps they've done it so many times they think it's a given?). And in its pursuit of this theme, Sam Raimi did not make me feel empowered, he made me feel human. So now, I can't help but sit down and ask myself a crucial question:

What do each of these Spidey films make me believe about life and the kind of person I need to be?

 

[Extollere]

The Peter Parker I grew up with in the comics was one who was always examining himself and striving to be a better person. He was aloof, but extremely self aware at times. He was often socially awkward but extremely well thought out and well spoken even in his own thoughts. He was an intelligent and upstanding person, who cared deeply about his impact and the people around him. Tobey's sulking, naive, goofy, socially inept take never resonated with me. It's a valid interpretation, and not completely off base, it just felt a little wrong... somehow.

 

[Vampfox]

Spider-Man 2 is still the best superhero movie.

 

[Seesaw15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICpP6pmn7o

Seeing Spider-Man depicted on film as he is today with no style (ASM, HC) is a damn sorry sight.

This Spider-Man's a loser. He nearly killed a petty crock and let Uncle Ben's real killer get away.

 

[Toa TAK]

The first two Raimi films still hold up. 2 is still one of the best superhero movies out there. Homecoming still doesn't touch it (but that goes for the MCU in general).

3 still sucks, but I'm not as harsh on it anymore after ASM2. It could always be worse.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Ha, I just did this as well. I honestly didn't love these movies as much as most on GAF did so I was interested to give them a rewatch after a few years.

The rewatch has convinced me I was wrong. I think all 3 (yes, even the third one) compare well to any Marvel or DC movies coming out today. What really surprised me were the special effects, as 90% of them were great!

I liked them the first time (wasn't a big fan of 3). But yep! Seeing them again made me go... "Wait... These are just as good as anything to come out recently". Even the visuals hold up, which blew my mind.

He also recently covered what he had to say about Homecoming and how it compares to the past Raimi movies in his latest article (don't worry, no more Hulkspeak in these things).

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/07/14/film-crit-hulk-smash-spider-man-the-marvel-fatal-flaw

Film critic hulk is my spirit animal

First 2 are amazing and show what's missing from almost all new super hero movies.

Agreed, that was the crux of why I wanted to write about them, I just couldn't quite pinpoint it in words.

 

[DopeToast]

Spider-Man 2 is still one of my favorite movies of all time.

1 is a really good fun movie, and 3 is definitely a bit of a mess, but by no means is it unwatchable.

 

[kitsunelaine]

Dammit. Reading this after watching Homecoming makes me want to revisit the Raimi trilogy as well.

 

[jtb]

Tobey is the GOAT Peter Parker.

Spiderman 3 is better than both ASM films.

Stop whining about how he's not some adonis quip god nerds.

 

[daTRUballin]

Can we please stop the revisionist history that's starting on SM3? That movie is a fucking turd. Retconning Uncle Ben's death to say 'OH, THIS IS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED' was deplorable storytelling.

I, for one, welcome this "revisionist history". SM3 was a fairly decent movie and I'm glad others are starting to realize that now.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Can we please stop the revisionist history that's starting on SM3? That movie is a fucking turd. Retconning Uncle Ben's death to say 'OH, THIS IS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED' was deplorable storytelling.

I do agree the the entire Sandman addition and the twist-twist as awful, but AFAIK Raimi did not want that. The suits wanted more villains or some extra twist to it and a Hobgoblin(Harry)/Spidey team-up.

The thing is though, Raimi does stick the landing. I caught feels when Harry died and Topher is a good Venom, which is NOT what I thought at the time. I feel his role in Predators totally flipped things for me. Venom was actually his first role as that type.

The sound vibrations/bell/Spidey to Brock transfer of the symbiote scene was great.

I, for one, welcome this "revisionist history". SM3 was a fairly decent movie and I'm glad others are starting to realize that now.

 

[Tetsujin_MK]

Rewatched the trilogy just a few days ago before Homecoming.

Still love it. Spider-Man 3 may be the weakest entry but I honestly enjoy that one too.

...I may have enjoyed it more than Homecoming.

 

[ronaldthump]

spiderman 3 was a bit shit. venom was shit. sandman was shit.

:/

 

[autumnleaf]

1 is a good film, it probably overachieved at the time because of when it was released but it's a fun film.

2 is the greatest thing ever and blows every other superhero film away.

Trilogy? There is no third film.

 

[Mac the KNife]

Still my favorite superhero films & trilogy as a whole. SM3 did fumble the ball badly but there was enough good there to redeem it somewhat.

It's always funny to see people who grew up reading Ultimate Spider-Man bemoan Raimi's films as "Not Spider-Man".

 

[Mumei]

The Peter Parker I grew up with in the comics was one who was always examining himself and striving to be a better person. He was aloof, but extremely self aware at times. He was often socially awkward but extremely well thought out and well spoken even in his own thoughts. He was an intelligent and upstanding person, who cared deeply about his impact and the people around him. Tobey's sulking, naive, goofy, socially inept take never resonated with me. It's a valid interpretation, and not completely off base, it just felt a little wrong... somehow.

I didn't grow up reading Spider-Man comics, but I did read the first 70 issues of the original (Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita) runs, and Tobey's portrayal of Peter Parker never really resembled that (or Ultimate SM, though of course it wouldn't) portrayal. He actually kind of reminded me of Parker really, really early in the run, before getting bitten. Though I don't think that Parker was always "well spoken even in his own thoughts" or "extremely self aware." For quite a while his internal monologuing is petty resentfulness and in a different comic you could imagine him going full supervillain. One of the things I really liked especially about those first nearly 40 issues is that the character changes over the course of it, and becomes more like the kind of character you're describing.

I haven't seen the first two Raimi Spider-Man films (and never saw 3) recently enough to know for sure, but I felt like his Peter Parker was always stuck at "pre-bite". I've never understood the notion that the Raimi portrayal was particularly faithful. Contra FCH, the original character had plenty of wish fulfillment aspects—

By issue seven of his own series, ‘The Amazing Spider-Man,’ Peter already had his first girlfriend in the form of the lovely young secretary at The Daily Bugle, Betty Brant. By issue eight, he ditched his glasses after beating up his longtime bully in front of his entire class. And when Peter graduated high school in 1965 (in ‘The Amazing Spider-Man’ #28), the most popular girl in school, Liz Allen, confessed to having a crush on him. If that wasn’t enough, Peter would go on to spend the majority of his college years being fought over by the beautiful Gwen Stacy and the equally stunning Mary Jane Watson. Not quite the textbook definition of a science nerd…

And even the art changed to reflect that. He started off like:

And even less than halfway through Ditko's run, he was looking like this:

I've never understood defenses of Maguire's Parker on the basis that it was "more true to the character." As you say, it's not an invalid portrayal. But it is its own thing.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Still the best Spider-Man films.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Rewatched the trilogy just a few days ago before Homecoming.

Still love it. Spider-Man 3 may be the weakest entry but I honestly enjoy that one too.

...I may have enjoyed it more than Homecoming.

That's an interesting take.

I really do appreciate Raimi's style. It was like the feeling of a comic, without coming off as trying hard to feel like a comic. JJJ and his reactions are the top for that sort of thing.

But also the feels and the emotions the characters bring feels legit, not corny.

I am still shocked that 3 is better than I remember by a mile. It's better than some MCU films

Spoiler

cough iron man 2 cough

 

[Oersted]

Fans don't find it fun.

Fun is needed.

You know. Fun.

The "MY BACK!" scene is still fucking funny

Spoiler

Know what you mean