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[The Artisan]

Good point I'd say based on old school power sets it could be close if Cap didn't have his shield. It could be a brutal battle Kingpin would maybe try to bear hug him to death. Still give the edge to Cap because of his unorthodox fighting style. The comicbook classic Kingpin was a very formidable fighter though.

yeah i agree, it would be a formidable match without cap's shield however, i think cap would still have the edge coz he could still be a little stronger overall, and is a better fighter.

but yeah, who wouldn't like to see kingpin kick spiderman's butt...

Daredevil doesn't have near the fighting training that Cap does though. DD mostly relies on his heightened senses to predict what his opponent is doing/going to do.

na he does, it's just different (and better in my opinion). i think daredevil is a better fighter than cap but cap is stronger so he would win.

 

[Kathian]

I'd usually be against this but hes played brilliantly. As long as Daredevil and Ninja's stay away.

 

[Dynomutt]

yeah i agree, it would be a formidable match without cap's shield however, i think cap would still have the edge coz he could still be a little stronger overall, and is a better fighter.

but yeah, who wouldn't like to see kingpin kick spiderman's butt...na he does, it's just different (and better in my opinion). i think daredevil is a better fighter than cap but cap is stronger so he would win.

Could you Imagine? D'Onofrio Kingpin kidnaps sexy Marissa Aunt May. Bloodlust battle between Kingpin and Spidey with all the verbal back and forth. This could be really good.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

It would be cool if this eventually happened. It was pretty much the only good thing that came out of the whole Brand New Day debacle.

yeah i agree, it would be a formidable match without cap's shield however, i think cap would still have the edge coz he could still be a little stronger overall, and is a better fighter.

but yeah, who wouldn't like to see kingpin kick spiderman's butt...na he does, it's just different (and better in my opinion). i think daredevil is a better fighter than cap but cap is stronger so he would win.

He really doesn't. He spends both seasons of that show getting the shit kicked out of him by almost everyone. I can't even count how many times he lifts himself off the ground with blood dripping from his mouth. All Cap would have to do is over load his senses and Daredevil would essentially be a sitting duck.

 

[IndoAssassin]

The same serum that made Cap is the serum that Bruce tried to replicate and ended up becoming The Hulk due to overexposure with gamma radiation.

Why do we keep questioning Cap's strength? He should not be Hulk level strength, but since Cap was infused with the perfected serum that made The Hulk, with the right amount of gamma radiation from the vita chamber so he keeps his human form, he should be close enough to it.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

Daredevil doesn't have near the fighting training that Cap does though. DD mostly relies on his heightened senses to predict what his opponent is doing/going to do.

Daredevil was trained by ninja. He's infinitely a better fighter than cap.

 

[Layell]

Watch film side take Kingpin and jerk around with him just to mess over the DD Season 3 plot.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Hmm, would be neat, but I doubt it.

 

[The Artisan]

Could you Imagine? D'Onofrio Kingpin kidnaps sexy Marissa Aunt May. Bloodlust battle between Kingpin and Spidey with all the verbal back and forth. This could be really good.

bro, some people could not even Imagine spiderman in the MCU.

OF COURSE i could imagine this. I want this. so fuckin bad...

He really doesn't. He spends both seasons of that show getting the shit kicked out of him by almost everyone. I can't even count how many times he lifts himself off the ground with blood dripping from his mouth.

...that's because daredevil doesn't have the superhuman strength that cap does. and i like that about him; i like that daredevil doesn't always win and has his limitations. he's a blind ninja, with supersonic senses. but in terms of what he is physically capable of, he is still just a man.

Daredevil was trained by ninja. He's infinitely a better fighter than cap.

yep

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Daredevil was trained by ninja. He's infinitely a better fighter than cap.

I don't know where you're getting that from. Cap has held his own against way stronger opponents than Daredevil, and like I mentioned before Daredevil has trouble handling opponents who don't even really have super powers.

...that's because daredevil doesn't have the superhuman strength that cap does. and i like that about him; i like that daredevil doesn't always win and has his limitations. he's a blind ninja, with supersonic senses. but in terms of what he is physically capable of, he is still just a man.
yep

Yeah, and as just a man he would get beaten up by someone who is not only super human, but also very adept at fighting. Him being trained by a ninja doesn't mean shit when he's up against someone like Cap. Cap would just need to disrupt Daredevil's hearing and all of his training would be useless.

 

[The Artisan]

I don't know where you're getting that from. Cap has held his own against way stronger opponents than Daredevil, and like I mentioned before Daredevil has trouble handling opponents who don't even really have super powers.

i think he was referring to the fighting styles, in that daredevil's has more skill. but in terms of the two going head to head, of course cap would win because cap is stronger. it's not his fighting style that would give him the advantage.

 

[Monocle]

D'Onofrio's Kingpin is incredible. This would be so cool.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

i think he was referring to the fighting styles, in that daredevil's has more skill. but in terms of the two going head to head, of course cap would win because cap is stronger. it's not his fighting style that would give him the advantage.

But his fighting style is completely based off a crux. Cap is adaptable. Even something like Cap throwing his shield around would throw Daredevil off his game.

 

[Dynomutt]

The same serum that made Cap is the serum that Bruce tried to replicate and ended up becoming The Hulk due to overexposure with gamma radiation.

Why do we keep questioning Cap's strength? He should not be Hulk level strength, but since Cap was infused with the perfected serum that made The Hulk, with the right amount of gamma radiation from the vita chamber do he keeps his human form, he should be close enough to it.

In raw strength I don't think the Cap is any where near the Hulk or even close. Per Marvel "While not superhuman, he is as strong as a human being can be. He can lift (press) a maximum of 800 pounds with supreme effort." This is debatable because in MCU i've seen Cap exhibit abnormal strength could be adrenaline pumping him up.. But after seeing Hulk slam a shard into a giant space snails head and bust that bunker in AOU Cap isn't seeing him in a arm wrestling match.

What makes Cap special to me is the combination of his skill set. He's a master tactician so he know what your going to do before you do it. You can't always track his fighting style because he switches it up. His reflexes and motor skills allow him to throw a 12.5lb shield with such accuracy and coordination that its a flying razor blade/discus of death. He's a balanced fighter. it's why even in the books more powerful characters always look to him.

 

[The Artisan]

But his fighting style is completely based off a crux. Cap is adaptable. Even something like Cap throwing his shield around would throw Daredevil off his game.

based off a crux?

look bro i'm not saying daredevil vs cap = daredevil wins, i'm just saying, at least in my opinion, daredevil has a better, more skill based, and impressive fighting style. it also makes watching daredevil action scenes at least in season 1, more entertaining than cap's in any of his movie scenes, where he's just this guy who can kick and punch guys left and right and they go swinging feet high.

 

[Dynomutt]

based off a crux?

look bro i'm not saying daredevil vs cap = daredevil wins, i'm just saying, at least in my opinion, daredevil has a better, more skill based, and impressive fighting style. it also makes watching daredevil action scenes at least in season 1, more entertaining than cap's in any of his movie scenes, where he's just this guy who can kick and punch guys left and right and they go swinging feet high.

This is a very fair assessment. If I understand Caps's style is a melange of multiple fighting style sometimes ugly and brutal but it is punishingly efficient.

Daredevil is a classically trained martial artist. His fighting style has a graceful cohesion to it. It is fluid and deadly like a ninja who wears red instead.

 

[MattKeil]

Yeah but in the original comics the super soldier serum doesn't give him superhuman strength, but peak physical condition. MCU cap is probably based on ultimate cap where he actually is superhuman.

"Peak human" today would probably be considered superhuman in the '60s when the Avengers comics started. If you're talking about someone who is the pinnacle of human development potential, that bar is a lot higher now due to new discoveries and training methods. Cap should be able press about half a ton. MCU Cap takes some crazy hits and falls, but it seems like just about everyone in the MCU is at least partially immune to fall damage.

 

[The Artisan]

This is a very fair assessment. If I understand Caps's style is a melange of multiple fighting style sometimes ugly and brutal but it is punishingly efficient.

Daredevil is a classically trained martial artist. His fighting style has a graceful cohesion to it. It is fluid and deadly like a ninja who wears red instead.

yep, I'd say that's a pretty good way of putting it. cap is a soldier. daredevil is a martial artist. in fact punisher probably fought in a way semi-similar to cap's only difference is his fights were more grounded like daredevil's since he's also just a man.

"Peak human" today would probably be considered superhuman in the '60s when the Avengers comics started. If you're talking about someone who is the pinnacle of human development potential, that bar is a lot higher now due to new discoveries and training methods. Cap should be able press about half a ton. MCU Cap takes some crazy hits and falls, but it seems like just about everyone in the MCU is at least partially immune to fall damage.

This is true, but cap is passed the threshold of a modern interpretation of "peak human" too. he

Spoiler

crushed a radio with his bare hands.

bruce wayne is supposed to be peak human too. in a crossover comic batman admitted though that cap still had the slight edge over him but even if they went at each other, it'd take a really long time for cap to win since they're pretty on par. MCU cap though? without a doubt he's low level superhuman.

 

[Alpende]

Yes please. He is amazing in Daredevil.

 

[The Artisan]

so i can't keep up with the news: is this a confirmed fake or what?

 

[Volimar]

I ignored the thread because I thought it meant they'd recast him. If they use Vincent that'd be great.

 

[The Artisan]

I ignored the thread because I thought it meant they'd recast him. If they use Vincent that'd be great.

why would they recast him?

 

[Slayven]

so i can't keep up with the news: is this a confirmed fake or what?

It was wishful thinking from a nerd site, nothing at all

 

[The Artisan]

It was wishful thinking from a nerd site, nothing at all

so it's not true.

 

[webkatt]

I disliked Vincent D’Onofrio as Kingpin so this is good news to me.

 

[Disgraced]

I don't even need a fight scene including Daredevil man, just a cameo where he gives Spidey advice or something, c'mon man. C'moooooon man! I just need to know they know, you know? I need to know they're pals.

 

[jwhit28]

Would he really get to be the same guy in a Spiderman movie? The characters quiet mastermind side only works because of the contrast to how violent he is in Daredevil. I don't see him squishing anyone's head in a car door in a Spiderman movie.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

you can keep laughing your fuckin ass off all you want, i ain't gonna stop.

says who?If you've been following the conversation I had with the guy I quoted, you'd see that the argument I was making was that in 616, both cap and kingpin are peak human. if things are being kept consistent, kingpin is low level superhuman just like cap is, and that's been evident in Daredevil. He has done things that even the strongest and most fit human couldn't do, just like cap.

Point to me the physically most impressive feat for MCU Kingpin.

I will in turn point out three from MCU Cap that craps all over it.

I would argue that daredevil is also a better fighter than kingpin and therefore cap as well, and even then kingpin was a hard time for daredevil in a fight.

Talking purely MCU? Fucking hardly. Cap danced with a knife-tossing Bucky, that was a way better display of skill than Daredevil's league.

By what logic? All this shit is fiction based on comics. And in the comics, kingpin has fought spiderman

By MCU feats and portrayal.

Spidey caught a car flying at 40 miles an hour and shrugged it off. He'll catch Kingpin's fist and snap his wrist off.

 

[Einchy]

I disliked Vincent D’Onofrio as Kingpin so this is good news to me.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that I dislike him but he's not great. The guy who played Froggy and him are pretty weak in the show.

 

[Byakuya769]

Daredevil would get absolutely wrecked by Cap in the MCU. Would get that Batroc treatment. Go fight some struggle city ninjas, Matt.

 

[Slayven]

Daredevil would get absolutely wrecked by Cap in the MCU. Would get that Batroc treatment. Go fight some struggle city ninjas, Matt.

 

[Obliterator]

What if they bring Matt in as well? Would be epic

 

[Byakuya769]

Hahahahah. Perfect.

 

[The Artisan]

Point to me the physically most impressive feat for MCU Kingpin.

i'll just have to copy paste: he ripped a guy's head off with brute strength, he took a taser to the neck like a bee sting, he was lifting...what looked like more than even a peak human could lift in jail, and he busted his hands out of handcuffs, which bane did in dkr.

I will in turn point out three from MCU Cap that craps all over it.

feel free to point out as much you want but there is no reference you can provide which will make me think MCU cap "craps all over" MCU kingpin. i think cap can still beat him shield or not but that they are more or less on par.

Talking purely MCU? Fucking hardly. Cap danced with a knife-tossing Bucky, that was a way better display of skill than Daredevil's league.

what do you mean daredevil's "league"? if we're talking about just brute strength kingpin is obviously much stronger than him, it's his fighting style and skill that gives him the edge.

By MCU feats and portrayal.

by those feats and portrayal, i say kingpin and cap are in the same ballpark in terms of superhuman strength.

Spidey caught a car flying at 40 miles an hour and shrugged it off. He'll catch Kingpin's fist and snap his wrist off.

all spidermen can do that, all a lot of those spidermen have also had to fight kingpin.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

i'll just have to copy paste: he ripped a guy's head off with brute strength, he took a taser to the neck like a bee sting, he was lifting...what looked like more than even a peak human could lift in jail, and he busted his hands out of handcuffs, which bane did in dkr.

Ripping a guy's head off? Your average grizzly bear happens to be able to smack a guy's head off with one swipe of its paws, which is physically much more impressive than ripping it off. Cap is ridiculously above a grizzly bear.

Cap withstood SHIELD-grade electric batons for multiple seconds without succumbing. Much better feat.

Please tell me exactly what he lifted in jail so I can show you the helicopter feat so you'll be silenced.

lmfao you keep saying 'peak human' like that means diddly fucking squat, Cap is superhuman in these movies, no ifs, ands or buts.

feel free to point out as much you want but there is no reference you can provide which will make me think MCU cap "craps all over" MCU kingpin. i think cap can still beat him shield or not but that they are more or less on par.

Hardly. Your viewpoint is far too influenced by the comics side of things which is wholly, I repeat, wholly irrelevant here. From an MCU portrayal, Cap has the strength to kick a dude ten meters hard enough to dent a car, hold back a helicopter from liftoff, and deadlift an enormous steel girder that fell on Bucky. All of your 'impressive feats' for Kingpin don't remotely measure up to that, including the handcuff feat LMAO

yes talking purely MCU! did you not read the sentences that came before this part that you quoted?what do you mean daredevil's "league"? if we're talking about just brute strength kingpin is obviously much stronger than him, it's his fighting style and skill that gives him the edge.

Cap is more skilled in hand-to-hand than Daredevil.

by those feats and portrayal, i say kingpin and cap are in the same ballpark in terms of superhuman strength.

Cap threw Ultron, a eight-foot tall titanium robot (therefore weighing upwards of 400 pounds likely) at a concrete pillar and shattered it to smithereens.

If you think ripping a dude's head off is 'in the same ballpark' you're fucking high, I'm sorry.

all spidermen can do that, all a lot of those spidermen have also had to fight kingpin.

Again referring to the comics.

No one gives a crap about that in this context.

 

[The Artisan]

Ripping a guy's head off? Your average grizzly bear happens to be able to smack a guy's head off with one swipe of its paws, which is physically much more impressive than ripping it off. Cap is ridiculously above a grizzly bear.

Cap withstood SHIELD-grade electric batons for multiple seconds without succumbing. Much better feat.

Please tell me exactly what he lifted in jail so I can show you the helicopter feat so you'll be silenced.

lmfao you keep saying 'peak human' like that means diddly fucking squat, Cap is superhuman in these movies, no ifs, ands or buts.

Hardly. Your viewpoint is far too influenced by the comics side of things which is wholly, I repeat, wholly irrelevant here. From an MCU portrayal, Cap has the strength to kick a dude ten meters hard enough to dent a car, hold back a helicopter from liftoff, and deadlift an enormous steel girder that fell on Bucky. All of your 'impressive feats' for Kingpin don't remotely measure up to that, including the handcuff feat LMAO



Cap is more skilled in hand-to-hand than Daredevil.



Cap threw Ultron, a eight-foot tall titanium robot (therefore weighing upwards of 400 pounds likely) at a concrete pillar and shattered it to smithereens.

If you think ripping a dude's head off is 'in the same ballpark' you're fucking high, I'm sorry.



Again referring to the comics.

No one gives a crap about that in this context.

I would go ahead and respond with broken down quotes to you but is there a reason you're choosing to have this discussion with a condescending attitude?

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

I would go ahead and give broken down response to you but is there a reason you're choosing to have this discussion with a condescending attitude?

Was it? My bad, I'll tone it down.

 

[The Artisan]

Was it? My bad, I'll tone it down.

I understand where you're coming from, we're both fans of the MCU and enjoy them in our own ways. But you're not gonna change my perspective like that; you're not convincing of otherwise, bro. I'm sticking by what I said and I would love to see kingpin go at it with spiderman; so would a whole lot of other people, given the responses in this thread.

If your perspective is that kingpin is no match for cap and therefore spidey, that's fine; there are others who would still like to see kingpin vs spidey, and if you say that's because my perspective is sticking too much to the comics - that's fine too, but that's how I'm enjoying the MCU in the first place. I knew these characters, especially spiderman, from his older stories.

 

[NimbusD]

It would certainly be interesting. They'd have to write a compelling way to have them fight each other. Kingpin wasn't even close to a match for DD in season 1 (whcih is one of the reasons the last few eps in that season didn't work great, DD picked off all the stronger more formidable characters, leaving kingpin who was never shown to be close to a match for him, but I digress..) There's no way kingpin would be close to a match for spidey, who was shown in civil war to be a god damn monster power-wise.
.
BUT, dude's a great actor AND I'm begging for more MCU/Netflix worlds crossover. Especially since spidey is IN nyc, makes no sense to have him swinging around and DD never be mentioned or spidey to never be mentioned in DD.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

It would seem strange to put a guy who beat someone to death with a car door until their head exploded in what appears to be a fairly light hearted (by comic book standards) Spiderman movie. The tones just don't match. He's also not superhuman or super strong, and neither is DD. It'd be like putting Nolan's Batman or Bane in BvS.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

It would seem strange to put a guy who beat someone to death with a car door until their head exploded in what appears to be a fairly light hearted (by comic book standards) Spiderman movie. The tones just don't match. He's also not superhuman or super strong, and neither is DD. It'd be like putting Nolan's Batman or Bane in BvS.

??? Daredevil is superhuman. Can hear shit from blocks away, can smell people from floors above, just seems to know stuff, heightened sense of touch and taste.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

??? Daredevil is superhuman. Can hear shit from blocks away, can smell people from floors above, just seems to know stuff, heightened sense of touch and taste.

I mean in terms of strength and ability to withstand damage. Dude nearly dies multiple times on the show fighting fairly regular baddies (up until the zombie ninjas in S2). Reminds me of how they handled Batman in NOlan's movies. I can't see either of them being credible in some of the more cosmic/superhuman shit both the MCU and DCU are moving into now.

 

[The Artisan]

It would seem strange to put a guy who beat someone to death with a car door until their head exploded in what appears to be a fairly light hearted (by comic book standards) Spiderman movie. The tones just don't match. He's also not superhuman or super strong, and neither is DD. It'd be like putting Nolan's Batman or Bane in BvS.

It does not matter that the tones do not match. It's the same reality. What wouldn't match, is Spiderman and Kingpin not crossing paths since they both operate in NYC.

 

[Disgraced]

"Power-levels" are all so relative. And they don't have to write Daredevil in a situation where he actually is struck by the kind of laser beams only Iron Man, Cap, or whoever could typically withstand.

Sure, there should be some form of consistency. But Daredevil is not all grim reality in the show. He's actually a pretty witty, optimistic person, all things considered. He's a true, if conflicted hero. That's why he's at odds with the truly grim, cynical characters of the show, Kingpin and Punisher, who I don't see as impossible to present in a lighthearted manner either. Especially Kingpin, whose entire demeanor is that of a preachy, corny supervillain. Like he is in the comics. Yes, in the show.

"[Myah!] I'm going to save this city by burning it down! And I won't let you [Darede—I mean Devil of Hell's Kitchen] stop me!"

What they did is present that archetype with a realistic setting, dark tone, and grounded motivations. They wouldn't have to do any of that the same way in a lighthearted Spidey movie. He's a mobster. His motive in this context is he wants to rob banks. The end. A scene where Spidey busts a mobster isn't complicated or tone-ruining.

If Hawkeye, Sharon Carter, Falcon, and Black Widow(?—her enhancement is unconfirmed in the MCU, no?) can hang around the big leagues I don't see why Daredevil couldn't. Aside from the crappy politics, of course.

 

[diaspora]

Mcu movies are set in real time. Hes gonna have 1 1/2 years under his belt when his movie hits.

So it isn't shit? I mean for at least two films they're going to be going over the same teen garbage.

 

[Disgraced]

Context. Vincent D'onofrio doesn't have to look at the camera and tell the children

"did you know one time i smashed a man's noggin with a car door until he didn't had a head no more"

 

[The Silver]

Context. Vincent D'onofrio doesn't have to look at the camera and tell the children

"did you know one time i smashed a man's noggin with a car door until he didn't had a head no more"

And how you shoot scenes and present violence goes a long way, Ronan smashed a guy's head in with his axe/hammer for instance but it wasn't shot in some brutally realistic manner like DD would. Kingpin can pick a guy up and throw him out a window, use "cut to black" techniques to show him killing people, hell he doesn't need to kill anyone at all. When he's fully established he rarely goes to extreme violence himself unless someone really personally pisses him off, he can easily just be the big boss behind the scenes manipulator.

 

[Disgraced]

And how you shoot scenes and present violence goes a long way, Ronan smashed a guy's head in with his axe/hammer for instance but it wasn't shot in some brutally realistic manner like DD would. Kingpin can pick a guy up and throw him out a window, use "cut to black" techniques to show him killing people, hell he doesn't need to kill anyone at all. When he's fully established he rarely goes to extreme violence himself unless someone really personally pisses him off, he can easily just be the big boss behind the scenes manipulator.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

predatorhandshake.gif

 

[The Artisan]

has there ever been a rumor that sounded fake that turned out to be true?

 

[xxracerxx]

has there ever been a rumor that sounded fake that turned out to be true?

Of course.