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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/15/us-sony-panasonic-oled-idUSBRE84D1EV20120515

(Reuters) - Sony Corp and Panasonic Corp are in talks to develop the technology to mass produce next-generation OLED televisions, aiming to compete with South Korean rivals in a technology widely seen replacing current LCD TVs, sources close to the matter said on Tuesday.

Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics plan to sell 55-inch OLED televisions, which are as slim as 4 millimeters and consume less power and offer sharper images, by the end of this year.

Sony and Panasonic, aiming to capture a slice of the market, are in discussions to share organic light emitting diode (OLED) technologies, the sources said. The Nikkei business daily also earlier reported the two firms were in discussions.

Kyoko Ishii, senior coordinator of global corporate PR for Panasonic, said: "The content of the report is not announced by Panasonic. Panasonic will continue its development and verification of OLED based on the result of research the company has been doing at its laboratories. The timing of the commercialization of OLED has not been decided yet."

Sony, which pioneered the technology with the world's first OLED TV in 2007, halted production of the $2,000 screens three years later because of the global downturn. Sony still makes OLED screens costing as much as $26,000 for high-end customers.

Sony declined comment on Tuesday.

Japanese firms that ruled the global TV market in the 1980s and 1990s have been battered by their aggressive Korean rivals, along with weak demand for the TVs they make and a stronger yen that makes their exports more expensive. Sony, Panasonic and Sharp Corp reported a combined net loss of more than $20 billion in the year to end-March.

PRICE IS KEY

The Japanese woes coincide with a battle in the TV market between credit-card-thin OLEDs and ultra-high definition sets.

Shipments of OLED TVs may grow to 2.1 million sets in 2015 from just 34,000 this year, according to research firm IHS Inc.

Mass producing affordable OLEDs will be key.

"Their (Sony and Panasonic)'s overseas competitors have gotten a head start in this area and I feel like they're stepping into this too late," said Masayuki Otani, chief market analyst at Securities Japan. "There's no question OLED TVs are going to be the mainstream. The issue is price and size of the displays," he added.

"Japanese makers haven't been able to produce OLED TVs that are as large as Samsung's ... I think there's an element of Japanese pride to this - the fact that Panasonic and Sony will work together to produce OLEDs to beat their Asian rivals. But I do have serious doubts on whether they can catch up."

Shares in Sony, which makes Bravia TVs, and Panasonic, which sells TVs under the Viera brand, fell in mid-morning trade after rising earlier. Sony was down 2.3 percent at 1,128 yen, while Panasonic dropped 2.9 percent to 561 yen.

Shares in the two once-mighty electronics firms slumped to their lowest closing levels in more than three decades on Friday, as investors doubted Sony had a strategy to fix its loss-making TV business as well as compete in the smartphone market and fretted about Panasonic's future after a record annual loss due to slumping sales of flat panel TVs.

"Both Sony and Panasonic would not be successful if they were to develop and sell OLED televisions alone. They have no choice but to find a partner," said Makoto Kikuchi, chief executive officer at Myojo Asset Management. "It (tie-up) is a plus, but their earnings wouldn't be rosy in the short-term because of this."

TALKING WITH TAIWAN

An industry source told Reuters last month that Sony was in talks with Taiwan's AU Optronics Corp on a possible tie-up to produce OLED televisions.

"I think the (Sony-Panasonic) tie-up is to make sure they can stay ahead of the Korean rivals in terms of technology because Samsung and LG have expanded very quickly and have the capacity ready. AUO is also under financial pressure and a technological bottleneck in OLED," said H.P. Chang, head of research at Taiwan-based LCD industry research company Witview.

"But if Sony and Panasonic need to have a partner to enlarge production scale, AU is likely their only choice," he added.

Panasonic also plans to invest about 30 billion yen in its Himeji plant in western Japan for a test production line of OLED panels, the industry source said.

Outgoing Panasonic President Fumio Ohtsubo told a news conference last week the company was unlikely to do all necessary investment in OLED panels on its own. "It is important to reduce investment risk by finding the best partner," he said.

($1 = 79.8150 Japanese yen)

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Could be interesting, I guess.

2 of the TV industries money-losers coming together. Not sure if that makes sense or not, tbh.

 

[shira]

Could be interesting, I guess.

2 of the TV industries money-losers coming together. Not sure if that makes sense or not, tbh.

Samsung/lg/apple will eat them alive

 

[ReBurn]

Could be interesting, I guess.

2 of the TV industries money-losers coming together. Not sure if that makes sense or not, tbh.

Never before have so few lost so much so fast.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It makes sense for them to come together .
With the Yen being as strongest as it is and Koreans kicking there ass i expect to see more Japanese tech companies come together .

 

[markot]

Yeah, the high yen is really screwing them, but its a 'safety' just like the USD.

But when will we see these kind of things in computer moniters?

 

[mclaren777]

These are my two favorite TV manufacturers and I don't believe in buying low end TVs, so this interests me.

 

[zerodayPopbot]

These are my two favorite TV manufacturers and I don't believe in buying low end TVs, so this interests me.

Yep, if I'm looking for a television it's going to be either a Sony or Panasonic, so them collaborating on OLED is a pretty exciting prospect.

 

[lunarworks]

It makes sense for them to come together .
With the Yen being as strongest as it is and Koreans kicking there ass i expect to see more Japanese tech companies come together .

It'll be interesting to see, whether these companies stubbornly stand alone and die, or join together and survive.

 

[MrCunningham]

2 of the TV industries money-losers coming together. Not sure if that makes sense or not, tbh.

Banning together to help revive the faltering Japanese electronics industry? I dunno, that is just my guess.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

These are my two favorite TV manufacturers and I don't believe in buying low end TVs, so this interests me.

Yea, if the product delivers...that's all that matters.

Banning together to help revive the faltering Japanese electronics industry? I dunno, that is just my guess.

certainly reasonable to me. they need to do something other than bleed money like stuck pigs.

 

[shira]

Yep, if I'm looking for a television it's going to be either a Sony or Panasonic, so them collaborating on OLED is a pretty exciting prospect.

What is your price point?
These aren't going to sell if they are $5999?

 

[Dead]

Yep, if I'm looking for a television it's going to be either a Sony or Panasonic, so them collaborating on OLED is a pretty exciting prospect.

Same. Can't stand Samsung TVs.

 

[Big-E]

Well they could not compete with LCD so might as well go after something else. They just need to hope that something better doesn't come out to shit kick them. They are going to have to bring costs down regardless as it will be hard sell to get some people off of LCD to go OLED.

 

[Jafku]

But what's the point if these tv's dont sell? I mean it is probable that these tv sets will go for a high price when it enters the market, what's the incentive? Outside of enthusiast who will they market it to?

 

[Loofy]

Are the japanese at a disadvantage or something?

Koreans(LG and Samsung) and americans(Vizio) seem to be taking over.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Are the japanese at a disadvantage or something?

Koreans(LG and Samsung) and americans(Vizio) seem to be taking over.

Yeah, they are at a disadvantage due to the strong Yen, and Korean companies can mass produce things faster, hence this rumored partnership.

 

[BigDug13]

Are the japanese at a disadvantage or something?

Koreans(LG and Samsung) and americans(Vizio) seem to be taking over.

I think the Korean companies get government subsidies to allow them to lower their price to keep them at a competitive advantage.

Sony electronics companies seem to be waning, though.

I'm not an economics guru, but doesn't the fact that the Yen keeps gaining strength cause Japanese companies to have a tougher time making a profit? Like that $2000 TV used to give Sony 200,000 yen, but now it only gives 150,000 yen because our dollar is so weak and the yen is so strong.

The yen gaining strength is only good for Japanese people who are traveling and buying things from overseas. For Japanese companies, it has to suck balls.

 

[MrCunningham]

Are the japanese at a disadvantage or something?

Koreans(LG and Samsung) and americans(Vizio) seem to be taking over.

The Japanese electronic powerhouses have been losing traction on the global market for the last ten years or so now. Korean companies like LG and Samsung have been using the same tactics that Japanese companies have used to overthrow the American electronic companies in the 1980's. Design affordable bang for your buck products at a decent quality.

Also, I guess the strong yen plays a roll in that too, as stated above.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Are these the flexible screens? Because I would love a giant PC monitor that curves around instead of having to use triple monitors for the same effect.

 

[systemfehler]

This rather looks like Panasonic needs Sony for the technology switch (Panasonic is great with Plasma but I never heard much praise about their LCD division) and Sony needs someone to co-invest. I think this might be an interesting joint-venture not in the near future but when OLED TVs will be in the 1000$ range.

 

[dejay]

I was holding off on upgrading my old, shitty 26" LCD for an OLED set, but LED LCD sets got decent and cheap recently, so I bit on an LG 55".

Not a bad move, OLED will still be quite expensive for a few years, but I can't wait for my next upgrade in maybe three to five years. Hopefully Sony will release just a few models, and not 30 models. To have economies of scale, you need scale, and having too many models doesn't give you that.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

This is not a surprising move in and of itself. The Japanese CE industry needs to consolidate heavily to compete with better supported Korean competitors, in Sony's place I would hold out for a partnership with Toshiba, but it could be that Toshiba are giving up on TVs altogether as they have already given up on OLED development and have not shown anything new since they were burned by SED.

I was asking around just now to see what the story is and it turns out that Sony are the only major Japanese CE to have any stake in OLED at the moment, they have a pilot line which produces their professional broadcast panels and they are ramping up another line for larger pro sets, but would require a lot of capital to fully commercialise the process for consumers. Panasonic have very little invested in OLED (the Sumimoto partnership from 2009 which has been dissolved and the new 8G pilot line currently being planned) and are well behind the curve, if they begin to ramp up the development and commercialisation of OLED today their first large screen TV would be out in 2015 for the same cost that Samsung and LG are releasing their sets this year or next.

Panasonic is currently planning their first ever pilot OLED production line for OLED research, Sony have had a pilot line going since 2006 and have made many, many production advancements since then. Panasonic would be starting from scratch. The 2012 release date that Panasonic have targeted is very, very unrealistic. Samsung have invested around $2bn to bring OLED to the masses for 2012, Panasonic are "hoping" to have a 2012 set ready for just $200m worth of investment. Unrealistic.

I have heard the partnership will be similar to the one Sony had with Samsung, but this time it will be Panasonic who take the lesser holding (minus one share) and Sony who have the majority (plus one share).

Let's also not forget that Sony have bet on CLED and this is the reason why they are less bothered about getting OLED off the ground in any meaningful way (they have talked about partnering with AUO, buying panels from Samsung, buying panels from LG, the strategy is unfocussed because they don't believe in the tech). Sony's OLED tech is basically just sitting in one of their labs doing very little at the moment but they are unwilling to sell it to any other company. The move to form a partnership makes sense as Sony will still be investing in CLED on their own while Panasonic will be investing in OLED for them while they benefit (much like Samsung benefited from the S-LCD partnership).

If this move goes ahead I expect to see Sony and Panasonic branded OLED TV sets by the end of 2014 which for Sony is great as I had heard that they were not going to commercialise OLED production beyond the pro market they are currently in.

For Panasonic, this move gives them access to OLED tech, an area in which they are well behind the Korean competitors and Sony. Their concentration on Plasma technology has not served them well, and they have fallen behind. It's nothing a $2-4bn bung to Sony can't fix, but it is $2-4bn that could have been spent on commercialising their own tech if they had it. Now they are going to be reliant on a partnership with one of their most fearsome competitors who are betting on a different technology to succeed, it's not going to be an easy ride.

I said it in the last Japan tech/CE thread (I think it was the Sony results one) and I'll say it here. Japanese CE companies need to consolidate. Sony and Toshiba should be looking at a merger because there are many synergies to be had, and the whole industry needs government support. $20-30bn invested across the industry in capitalising companies so they can compete with well capitalised Korean competitors is what needs to be done, and since the Japanese government can borrow for very little money a vehicle needs to be created to support Japanese industry or they will watch Sharp and Panasonic fall into the abyss.

 

[Leckan]

Why is the Yen so high BTW?

 

[dejay]

This is not a surprising move in and of itself. The Japanese CE industry needs to consolidate heavily to compete with better supported Korean competitors, in Sony's place I would hold out for a partnership with Toshiba, but it could be that Toshiba are giving up on TVs altogether as they have already given up on OLED development and have not shown anything new since they were burned by SED.

I was asking around just now to see what the story is and it turns out that Sony are the only major Japanese CE to have any stake in OLED at the moment, they have a pilot line which produces their professional broadcast panels and they are ramping up another line for larger pro sets, but would require a lot of capital to fully commercialise the process for consumers. Panasonic have very little invested in OLED (the Sumimoto partnership from 2009 which has been dissolved and the new 8G pilot line currently being planned) and are well behind the curve, if they begin to ramp up the development and commercialisation of OLED today their first large screen TV would be out in 2015 for the same cost that Samsung and LG are releasing their sets this year or next.

Panasonic is currently planning their first ever pilot OLED production line for OLED research, Sony have had a pilot line going since 2006 and have made many, many production advancements since then. Panasonic would be starting from scratch. The 2012 release date that Panasonic have targeted is very, very unrealistic. Samsung have invested around $2bn to bring OLED to the masses for 2012, Panasonic are "hoping" to have a 2012 set ready for just $200m worth of investment. Unrealistic.

I have heard the partnership will be similar to the one Sony had with Samsung, but this time it will be Panasonic who take the lesser holding (minus one share) and Sony who have the majority (plus one share).

Let's also not forget that Sony have bet on CLED and this is the reason why they are less bothered about getting OLED off the ground in any meaningful way (they have talked about partnering with AUO, buying panels from Samsung, buying panels from LG, the strategy is unfocussed because they don't believe in the tech). Sony's OLED tech is basically just sitting in one of their labs doing very little at the moment but they are unwilling to sell it to any other company. The move to form a partnership makes sense as Sony will still be investing in CLED on their own while Panasonic will be investing in OLED for them while they benefit (much like Samsung benefited from the S-LCD partnership).

If this move goes ahead I expect to see Sony and Panasonic branded OLED TV sets by the end of 2014 which for Sony is great as I had heard that they were not going to commercialise OLED production beyond the pro market they are currently in.

For Panasonic, this move gives them access to OLED tech, an area in which they are well behind the Korean competitors and Sony. Their concentration on Plasma technology has not served them well, and they have fallen behind. It's nothing a $2-4bn bung to Sony can't fix, but it is $2-4bn that could have been spent on commercialising their own tech if they had it. Now they are going to be reliant on a partnership with one of their most fearsome competitors who are betting on a different technology to succeed, it's not going to be an easy ride.

I said it in the last Japan tech/CE thread (I think it was the Sony results one) and I'll say it here. Japanese CE companies need to consolidate. Sony and Toshiba should be looking at a merger because there are many synergies to be had, and the whole industry needs government support. $20-30bn invested across the industry in capitalising companies so they can compete with well capitalised Korean competitors is what needs to be done, and since the Japanese government can borrow for very little money a vehicle needs to be created to support Japanese industry or they will watch Sharp and Panasonic fall into the abyss.

Interesting - thanks for taking the time.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

No worries...

 

[slider]

What was the tech Sony showed at CES? CLED or something? If this does go ahead I wonder where it'll leave CLED.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

What was the tech Sony showed at CES? CLED or something? If this does go ahead I wonder where it'll leave CLED.

Yeah, Crystal LED. Sony believes the manufacturing process for it is more refined, and displays can be manufactured more economically.

OLED is still a long-term goal for them.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

What was the tech Sony showed at CES? CLED or something? If this does go ahead I wonder where it'll leave CLED.

Yeah, it was CLED. CLED is still Sony's primary concern, all this does is take OLED out of the "for some other time" column for them and put it into "active" column. Previously Sony were not going to commercialise OLED beyond $20k pro monitors, now Panasonic are paying them to do it.

 

[Krauser Kat]

still dont give a shit and will support plasma until oled come down in price or i buy a good projector.

 

[sfedai0]

So the next gen tech are OLED and 4k? Or is 4k just a variant of LCD tech?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

So the next gen tech are OLED and 4k? Or is 4k just a variant of LCD tech?

4K is just a resolution and can be done on LCD, Plasma, OLED and CLED.

 

[/XX/]

Japan, June 25, 2012 – Sony Corporation (“Sony&#8221 and Panasonic Corporation (“Panasonic&#8221 today announced that they have signed an agreement regarding the joint development of next-generation OLED (organic light-emitting diode) panels and modules for TVs and large-sized displays.

Sony and Panasonic plan to jointly develop next-generation OLED panels and modules by each utilizing their core and printing technologies. They plan to jointly develop printing method-based next-generation OLED technology, which will be suitable for low-cost mass production of large, high resolution OLED panels and modules. Sony and Panasonic aim to establish mass-production technology during 2013, by integrating their unique technologies to improve the overall efficiency of development.

Sony launched the world’s first OLED TV in 2007 with its 11-inch model. Sony also released a 25-inch professional OLED monitor in 2011, and continued to develop products and mass-produce OLED displays utilizing deposition technologies. Further, Sony has actively promoted the research and development of next-generation OLED technologies such as hybrid OLED element devices and processing (manufacturing) technologies that combine deposition and printing methods, thin film transistor (TFT) drivers such as oxide TFTs, and flexible organic TFTs, and has presented its development results at academic conferences.

Panasonic is a leader in the technology development of large-sized screen, high-resolution OLED panels and utilizes the cutting-edge “all printing method”, among other printing methods which have the advantage of being competitive for producing large-sized screens at a lower cost. Panasonic owns the unique production and equipment technologies which enable the production of OLED panels through this method. Panasonic is also pursuing the future possibility of OLED panels, and is carrying out research and development of advancements in flexible OLED panels and aiming to develop large-sized, high quality sheet-type displays.

In parallel with the joint development of the next-generation technologies of the OLED panels and modules, Sony and Panasonic plan to continue to study collaboration in the mass production of OLED panels and modules. Also, each company plans to utilize its own strengths to develop and commercialize its own competitive, high-performance, next-generation OLED televisions and large-sized displays.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201206/12-0625E/index.html


Additional information from an article by Daisuke Wakabayashi, hinting at possible involvement of AU Optronics Corp., on further operations:

Sony, Panasonic Agree to TV Tie-Up - WSJ.com
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sqW_Cg&usg=AFQjCNF08bBBbGy5GT46_a_6jEFKKXQLsA

 

[Veidt]

Most expensive series of televisions of all time confirmed

 

[cutmeamango]

Finally I'll be able to buy a Panasony.

 

[Sephiroth503]

Finally I'll be able to buy a Panasony.

Mother of God...

 

[Busty]

Finally I'll be able to buy a Panasony.

Panny-Sonny.

I can just see the adverts starring Betty White now.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Two loss-leading behemoths coming together to make a product no one cares about in a market that bleeds money.

Stop making bad decisions.

 

[Nemo]

Uhh, this is why they got 'out' of the OLED business? What about that new tech they were gloating about?

 

[lupinko]

Most expensive series of televisions of all time confirmed

Is Sharp making OLED? If they are, I'm just going to stick with them for the OLED-Generation.

<3 Sharp.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I think the Korean companies get government subsidies to allow them to lower their price to keep them at a competitive advantage.

Sony electronics companies seem to be waning, though.

I'm not an economics guru, but doesn't the fact that the Yen keeps gaining strength cause Japanese companies to have a tougher time making a profit? Like that $2000 TV used to give Sony 200,000 yen, but now it only gives 150,000 yen because our dollar is so weak and the yen is so strong.

The yen gaining strength is only good for Japanese people who are traveling and buying things from overseas. For Japanese companies, it has to suck balls.

Every country does that. It depends on what degree and how long it happens.

Japan has had a long history of price dumping in the 80's.

Thge partnership between Samsung and Sony with their joint facotry became untenable, which is why Sony pulled out. Was it because of Samsung? Probably. But Samsung delivered, as far as LCD's and LED's were concerned, near Sony quality at a much lower price. And then below that price point LG and Vizio were taking big chunks of the remaining market.

It's a good move on Sony's part to team up with Panasonic. But at this point, they are a little behind Samsung, in bring something to market as quickly.