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General Yuri Baluyevsky warned that Russia is prepared to make pre-emptive strikes on "terrorist bases" anywhere in the world.

Russia prepared for pre-emptive strikes on 'terror bases' worldwide

Wed Sep 8, 5:43 AM ET Add Top Stories - AFP to My Yahoo!



MOSCOW (AFP) - Russia is prepared to make pre-emptive strikes on "terrorist bases" anywhere in the world, the Interfax news agency cited the country's chief of staff as saying.



"With regard to preventive strikes on terrorist bases, we will take any action to eliminate terrorist bases in any region of the world. But this does not mean we will carry out nuclear strikes," General Yuri Baluyevsky said Wednesday.


Baluyevsky added that Russia's choice of action "will be determined by the concrete situation where ever it may be in the world.


"Military action is the last resort in the fight agaisnt terrorism."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...=/afp/20040908/ts_afp/russia_attacks_military

 

[Manabanana]

So much for John Titor.

 

[sprsk]

So much for John Titor.

 

[teiresias]

How's this different from Titor? I've never read all his crap so I have no clue.

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

No Nukes? Buuuuyah

 

[gofreak]

Geez, it's worrying he even had to explicitly say they wouldn't be nuclear strikes. I thought that would be taken as read..a nuclear strike for one cell or operation is a bit overboard.

These would likely be counter-intelligence operations..most big powers in the world do this, I'd say Russia will just be intensifying theirs now.

 

[Malleymal]

Russia is basically going to do what we did, I just wonder where they are going to bring this... my gues is the nation that the Arabs were from that did the siege... damn...

 

[DarienA]

Russia is basically going to do what we did, I just wonder where they are going to bring this... my gues is the nation that the Arabs were from that did the siege... damn...

...and yet they condemned us on the world stage.... pooh pooh

 

[commish]

If I were a terrorist, I'd rather have the U.S. coming after me than the Russians. The Russians will bomb a lemonade stand for three straight days if they feel like it.

 

[Poody]

anyone have a clue how sophisticated Russia's army is?

 

[Phoenix]

anyone have a clue how sophisticated Russia's army is?

VERY. While the Soviet/Russian military has gone into decline they posess an equivalent capability (albeit less in some case) to the United States. If they decide to deliver a smack down, they are more than capable of doing it in a manner similar to the way we could.

 

[Drensch]

I'm sure this will be good for the world.

 

[RiZ III]

So what he have now is vigilantes provoking big ass countries to wage war across the globe. Good times.

 

[sc0la]

...and yet they condemned us on the world stage.... pooh pooh

Well they did say we would set a dangerous precedent.

They condemned us out of interests, as such if we had some significant stake in Chechnya or another area they intend to strike the US would likely stand up for "whats right" as well.

 

[Poody]

Are Russians using the Joint Eurofighter or using there own migs?

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

Are Russians using the Joint Eurofighter or using there own migs?

Eurofighters are frozen poop,they are using thier own tech

 

[Pimpwerx]

Yeah, just saw this on Yahoo! Great, more pre-emptive nonsense. What a total crock of shit. "Terror" is such a vague label that it's being used to hide blatant imperialism. I don't want Russians conducting a stupid war on terror anymore than I want the US doing it. This does not make me feel safer in the least. PEACE.

 

[Incognito]

on preemptive wars and strikes:

“You don’t ‘prevent’ anything by war except peace,” President Harry S Truman

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

anyone have a clue how sophisticated Russia's army is?

Extremely, don't let the end of the cold war fool you. Russia is by far IMO still the biggest military threat to the US. They have access to pretty much the same technology that we have and at the same time their soliders aren't really brought up with the whole "respect human rights" view that the US society has. Their soliders are brutal and prone to toture and all sorts of depravity. Not to say that the US doesn't have a bunker full of Section 8 wackos that they can unleash on the world at any given time but, it is a matter of course for Russian soliders. Do you see how they handle hostage situations? They don't care when their own people are in there. If they now are subscribing to the notion of premption then I shudder for those in their path.


--D'oh I just read what Phx put down.

 

[Ripclawe]

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3470483

A Russian threat to carry out pre-emptive strikes against terrorist bases outside its territory is “understandable” and within international law, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said today.

as for the Russian Military, except for the special forces, there has been a decline in readyness, training, morale, equipment basically everything. There is still more than enough to cause problem mostly everyone. But, not exactly the scary big red machine of the past.

 

[Incognito]

what's the point in posting that, ripclawe? of course it's "understandable", but that doesn't mean it should be done. it's "understandable" why the US engages in preemptive strikes and even war, now. does that make it the right choice, though?

don't think so.

 

[Ripclawe]

what's the point in posting that, ripclawe?

'cause the topic was already here.

of course it's "understandable", but that doesn't mean it should be done. it's "understandable" why the US engages in preemptive strikes and even war, now. does that make it the right choice, though?

yes, if someone attacks you, you go after the attacker, if you can destroy it down to the roots, go for it.

I have long since past the "we must understand their cause and feelings" bit.

 

[Poody]

Damn talking about air dominace wets my pants. Does anyone know why the US goverment decided to go with Lockheed martins F22 over Boeings phantom? I missed the nova special.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Because the F22 pays my bills.

 

[DarienA]

anyone have a clue how sophisticated Russia's army is?

For the most part on parity with ours... but IMO I think they have better air to air combat tactics/skills/equipment... (at the very least I think it's more reliable) then again I think our radar coverage is slightly better... and if you can see further....

 

[sc0la]

yes, if someone attacks you, you go after the attacker, if you can destroy it down to the roots, go for it.

I have long since past the "we must understand their cause and feelings" bit.

It has nothing to do with feelings. :rolleyes

These people are a sociological cancer, you don't cut out lung cancer and keep smoking, that would be stupid. Even if you are fully engaged in an all out annihilation of an oponent, if you do not understand the circumstances that surround the problems genesis then you wil never be safe from it. never. We already know you think you can blow your way out of the problem, or I would say "If you believe you can, then you are kidding yourself."

Also please note that going after a terroist base is not "pre-emptive" if they already took and killed hundreds of hostages or blew the fuck out of some planes. Now the reaction becomes a question of scale. are they attacking an entire country? or just some terrorist bases? Or are there any real "bases" to speak of, or is this problem rooted and hidden into a fabric of normality? These are the important questions here.

 

[Socreges]

Geez, it's worrying he even had to explicitly say they wouldn't be nuclear strikes. I thought that would be taken as read..a nuclear strike for one cell or operation is a bit overboard.

I thought the same thing. Such an odd acknowledgement.

 

[Ripclawe]

Its all about reforms and if they can bring in money need to modernize itself.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/aug2001/0801russia_print.html

Russia's military, tapped by President Vladimir Putin for a thorough revitalization, is under pressure to clean up its own act.

Even staunch advocates of increased support for Russia's soldiers, sailors, and airmen are turning their guns on the waste and mismanagement that have weakened the force in recent years. They say that spending more on the military as presently constituted will only feed its penchant for squandering resources on a gargantuan scale.

Few have any doubts that Russia's armed forces were in a deep crisis, the scope and magnitude of which can be glimpsed in a random sampling of problems:

Fighter pilots get 14 hours of flying time per year.
Murder claims 500 troops per year--18 times the number in US armed forces.
Ground station fires knock out ground military communications systems and communications with satellites.
Commanders sometimes seize electricity plants to prevent loss of power to ICBM bases.
Thieves in the navy--including officers--are stripping submarines of valuable equipment for sale to criminal gangs.

Pravda has this report from earlier this year that makes it sound it hasn't worked as well, this is the air force.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/89/357/11829_aviation.html

 

[Acrylamid]

So much for John Titor.

"this does not mean we will carry out nuclear strikes" != "this means we won't carry out nuclear strikes"

 

[norinrad21]

If I were a terrorist, I'd rather have the U.S. coming after me than the Russians. The Russians will bomb a lemonade stand for three straight days if they feel like it.

This is correct.

 

[Ripclawe]

It has nothing to do with feelings. :rolleyes

These people are a sociological cancer, you don't cut out lung cancer and keep smoking, that would be stupid. Even if you are fully engaged in an all out annihilation of an oponent, if you do not understand the circumstances that surround the problems genesis then you wil never be safe from it. never. We already know you think you can blow your way out of the problem, or I would say "If you believe you can, then you are kidding yourself."

complete annihilation of an opponent will solve your problems really quick. The problem with Russia over the last decade is they have used force without really any focus to it. Someone blows up something, Putin would just send more troops. He said reforms are needed in the security forces, which is find out who these people(leaders) are, where the materials, funds/backing are coming from and take it out. It must be done in such a way that few people would dare join up for a jihad or whatever else.

Also please note that going after a terroist base is not "pre-emptive" if they already took and killed hundreds of hostages or blew the fuck out of some planes. Now the reaction becomes a question of scale. are they attacking an entire country? or just some terrorist bases? Or are there any real "bases" to speak of, or is this problem rooted and hidden into a fabric of normality? These are the important questions here.

As I said above, the russian answer needs focus, a brutal scorched earth focus. The questions you ask are not that important. Its where, how and when.

Where are our targets
How can we effectively take them ou
When should it be done.

 

[DarienA]

If I were a terrorist, I'd rather have the U.S. coming after me than the Russians. The Russians will bomb a lemonade stand for three straight days if they feel like it.

Funny and sad at the same time... cause it's true.

Also please note that going after a terroist base is not "pre-emptive" if they already took and killed hundreds of hostages or blew the fuck out of some planes. Now the reaction becomes a question of scale. are they attacking an entire country? or just some terrorist bases? Or are there any real "bases" to speak of, or is this problem rooted and hidden into a fabric of normality? These are the important questions here.

Ok here's the discrepancy and the problem with the above verbage.... terrorist "base" it's not like there's a large military complex out there. Terrorists meet in secret, they meet in public places around innocents, in private homes, around innocents, they stockpile weapons in those same places...

Sure terrorists have camps, etc... but for the most part there's not a big sign hanging on the places they meet saying "Terrorist Base IZ Here!"

 

[Lucky Forward]

Damn talking about air dominace wets my pants. Does anyone know why the US goverment decided to go with Lockheed martins F22 over Boeings phantom? I missed the nova special.

Do you mean why was the F-22 chosen over the F-23? ( I didn't know Boeing had called it the Phantom.) As I recall, the F-23 outperformed the F-22 in many areas, but the F-22 was less costly to maintain with the existing Air Force facilities and workforce.

Now, if you're talking about the Joint Strike Fighter competition that Nova had on "Battle of the X-Planes", that's something else entirely.

 

[Incognito]

complete annihilation of an opponent will solve your problems really quick. The problem with Russia over the last decade is they have used force without really any focus to it. Someone blows up something, Putin would just send more troops. He said reforms are needed in the security forces, which is find out who these people(leaders) are, where the materials, funds/backing are coming from and take it out. It must be done in such a way that few people would dare join up for a jihad or whatever else.





As I said above, the russian answer needs focus, a brutal scorched earth focus. The questions you ask are not that important. Its where, how and when.

Where are our targets
How can we effectively take them ou
When should it be done.

this whole post is just the most ridiculous thing i've ever laid eyes on. "brutal scorched earth focus."

i'm more ashamed of the fact that there are millions of people who think like you.

 

[Phoenix]

You forgot one thing - you also need to do this in an environment where people will 'let' it happen. Brutally killing scores of people tends to be frowned upon and when you're talking about utilizing the military as opposed to the new KGB, you're going to kill a lot of people. In the process you need to keep foreign powers out of your hair. If you can do that, you can put down sepratists pretty effectively but you can't kill the ideals that they were fighting for. To kill the ideals requires a socioeconomic change at the point of separation from normal societal living such that the general populace wouldn't WANT to engage in these activities and would be party to shutting these folks down at the 'everyday citizen' level.

 

[Funky Papa]

Russia's army if often compared with a nearly dying elephant. You can menace it with a stick and and event inflict it some damage, but be careful it doesn't fall over you, because then you will be FUBAR.

I wouldn't like to be on these fuckers' shoes, but that doesn't mather to them since they have a first class ticket to heaven...

 

[norinrad21]

Putin is the new Stalin of the 21 century and he would stop at notjhing until every little radical fundamentalist has been smoked out of his whole in Russian territory

 

[AeroGod]

I <3 Russia

 

[Funky Papa]

Putin may be a bloody bastard, but Stalin pretty much redefined the word back then.

 

[commish]

Putin is the new Stalin of the 21 century and he would stop at notjhing until every little radical fundamentalist has been smoked out of his whole in Russian territory

Stalin killed 20 million people, Putin has a ways to go yet

 

[norinrad21]

Putin may be a bloody bastard, but Stalin pretty much redefined the word back then.

Good ol Put is also an ex KGB, don't let that calm looking innocent face and smile fool ya. Apart from terrorists, Oil rich bastards are next on his agenda.

I do admire the man, its like he would like to take back all the countries that the soviet union let go if he could get away with it

 

[Ripclawe]

You forgot one thing - you also need to do this in an environment where people will 'let' it happen. Brutally killing scores of people tends to be frowned upon and when you're talking about utilizing the military as opposed to the new KGB, you're going to kill a lot of people.

Russia won't use all military, I expect the new KGB and other forces are going out taking people out left and right in small numbers.

In the process you need to keep foreign powers out of your hair. If you can do that, you can put down sepratists pretty effectively but you can't kill the ideals th

except for the EU putting up a token resistance, I don't see any foreign powers actually getting in the way. Unless, Russia decides to go into Georgia which is something America has taken interest too.

To kill the ideals requires a socioeconomic change at the point of separation from normal societal living such that the general populace wouldn't WANT to engage in these activities and would be party to shutting these folks down at the 'everyday citizen' level.

That is in the future, right now, they need to destroy terrorist infrastructure, when that is seen on the ground as successful, then you put in the socio/economic policies in place as a carrot to make people realize its a waste of time to fight.

 

[sc0la]

complete annihilation of an opponent will solve your problems really quick. The problem with Russia over the last decade is they have used force without really any focus to it. Someone blows up something, Putin would just send more troops. He said reforms are needed in the security forces, which is find out who these people(leaders) are, where the materials, funds/backing are coming from and take it out. It must be done in such a way that few people would dare join up for a jihad or whatever else.

As I said, we already know what you think. Again removing the cancer is ideal, and admirable, but if you (generic you, meaning those in power) don't do anything to stem the cause you obviously lack any kind of capacity for logical comprehension. If you blow up eveyone today, this will happen again in the future. period.

As I said above, the russian answer needs focus, a brutal scorched earth focus. The questions you ask are not that important. Its where, how and when.

Focus &#8800; total disregard for context and respect for human life. A scorched earth campaign is just about as close to terrorism as you can get and "justify" it.

Ok here's the discrepancy and the problem with the above verbage.... terrorist "base" it's not like there's a large military complex out there. Terrorists meet in secret, they meet in public places around innocents, in private homes, around innocents, they stockpile weapons in those same places...

Sure terrorists have camps, etc... but for the most part there's not a big sign hanging on the places they meet saying "Terrorist Base IZ Here!"

I know that, read what you quoted again we agree. If the terrorists are more ingrained within the fabric of otherwise "normal" people then that makes Ripclawe's suggestion of scorched earth that much more callous and sick.

When you don't fully understand what you are dealing with, you lose. That shouldn't stop you from thoughtful and measured action in the mean time though.

 

[Funky Papa]

Good ol Put is also an ex KGB, don't let that calm looking innocent face and smile fool ya. Apart from terrorists, Oil rich bastards are next on his agenda.

I do admire the man, its like he would like to take back all the countries that the soviet union let go if he could get away with it

He could be the perfect Bond villain.

He is too damn cool in a twisted way.

 

[Phoenix]

Seperated at birth?

 

[DarienA]

He could be the perfect Bond villain.

He is too damn cool in a twisted way.

WTH? He already was... let me find a pick... The World is Not Enough IIRC...

 

[Poody]

Now, if you're talking about the Joint Strike Fighter competition that Nova had on "Battle of the X-Planes", that's something else entirely.

what do you mean? I wanted to know why the US goverment choose Lockheed's design over Boeings both of which have two different models.

Boeing named the X-32 phantom, I believe, after phantom works.

 

[Funky Papa]

WTH? He already was... let me find a pick... The World is Not Enough IIRC...

What the shit Darien, that's uncanny 0_ô

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

except for the EU putting up a token resistance, I don't see any foreign powers actually getting in the way. Unless, Russia decides to go into Georgia which is something America has taken interest too.

Pre-emptive means pre-emptive to me that means if the staging ground for an attack is in Germany that means they are going in there come hell or high water to get their men.

 

[Lucky Forward]

what do you mean? I wanted to know why the US goverment choose Lockheed's design over Boeings both of which have two different models.

Boeing named the X-32 phantom, I believe, after phantom works.

Your original post said:

Does anyone know why the US goverment decided to go with Lockheed martins F22 over Boeings phantom?

You may be getting two different competitions mixed up.

The F-22 competed against the F-23 back in the early nineties for the Advanced Tactical Fighter contract. That was what I was talking about with Lockheed's having an edge in maintenance.

A few years later there was another, separate competition for the Joint Strike Fighter, the one that had to have a version with vertical take-off capability. It's considered to be a second-tier fighter, much like the F-16 was second to the F-15. I forget the plane number designations but Lockheed won that one also. If I recall correctly, Lockheed's VTOL version ducted the exhaust down for lift, while Boeing's used a complicated series of linkages to drive a huge fan to provide lift. The Lockheed version was seen as more straightforward and reliable.