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[EarthStormFire]

Do you mean why was the F-22 chosen over the F-23? ( I didn't know Boeing had called it the Phantom.) As I recall, the F-23 outperformed the F-22 in many areas, but the F-22 was less costly to maintain with the existing Air Force facilities and workforce.

Now, if you're talking about the Joint Strike Fighter competition that Nova had on "Battle of the X-Planes", that's something else entirely.

You people have it mixed up. The F-22 was from Lockheed it was chosen over the F-23 from NORTHROP GUNMAN, not boeing.

 

[Lucky Forward]

You're right. The F-23 was Northrop Grumman. But if you see my post at the end of the first page, I think Poody was mixing up two different competions when he asked his original question.

 

[doncale]

Damn talking about air dominace wets my pants. Does anyone know why the US goverment decided to go with Lockheed martins F22 over Boeings phantom? I missed the nova special.

you mean Lockheed Martin/General Dynamic/Boeing YF-22 Lightning II/Shooting Star over Northrop/McDonald Douglas (edit: Northrop Grumman) YF-23 Black Widow
(circa 1990-1991).

the YF-22 was less radical, more manuverable and probably slightly lower cost than the somewhat faster, more stealthy, more radical YF-23.

the YF-22 was fully developed into the F-22 Raptor now called F/A-22 Raptor.


then more recently, the Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter (F-35) was selected over Boeing's competing Joint Strike Fighter (F-32) in 2001 or 2002.


back to the F-15 replacement battle, I wanted the YF-23 to win. it could have been further developed to rival the YF-22's manuverablity, while keeping its superior stealth and speed.

the F-22...I mean F/A-22, is really just a low-observable fighter, not a true stealth aircraft like the F-117 or B-2. the F/A-22 is only somewhat stealthly from its front profile. it's a big improvement over the F-15 as far as not being seen, but F-22 is far from being a true stealth aircraft IMO. the FY-23 would have been closer to being a true stealth fighter from what I've read. (YF-23 engines were more deeply embedded/tucked in to the airframe, and it only had 2 tail surfaces (the butterfly configuration) instead of the conventional 4 with the F-15 and F-22)

 

[Diablos]

Yeah, just saw this on Yahoo! Great, more pre-emptive nonsense. What a total crock of shit. "Terror" is such a vague label that it's being used to hide blatant imperialism. I don't want Russians conducting a stupid war on terror anymore than I want the US doing it. This does not make me feel safer in the least. PEACE.

Good point... but hey man, at least we won't be the only ones. Now other countries can get pissed at someone else for once.

 

[DarienA]

What the shit Darien, that's uncanny 0_ô

I know when I saw his face I immediately thought of that movie. There's another one sticking in the back of my head but I can't place it just yet.

 

[bionic77]

Jesus, there are some scary motherfuckers on this board.

'Scorched Earth Policy'

 

[Funky Papa]

I know when I saw his face I immediately thought of that movie. There's another one sticking in the back of my head but I can't place it just yet.

Blofeld?

 

[BigJonsson]

Renewed arms race much

 

[Doth Togo]

If I were a terrorist, I'd rather have the U.S. coming after me than the Russians. The Russians will bomb a lemonade stand for three straight days if they feel like it.

Ownage time, bitches...

 

[DSN2K]

any bets yet on what Russia will do first ?

 

[BigJonsson]

Bomb Chechnya into oblivion?

 

[scarybore]

Pfft, if you are going to compare pictures of Putin to anyone then theres only one true candidate...

Apparently Putin wasn't too chuffed about being compared to the wee house elf

any bets yet on what Russia will do first ?

Bomb Chechnya into oblivion?

Probably, the world has really gone down the shitter in the past decade

 

[Makura]

I think that when you deliberately murder innocents for your cause, you forfeit any right to have your cause taken seriously.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I think that when you deliberately murder innocents for your cause, you forfeit any right to have your cause taken seriously.

So if I go murder innocents for the cause of, say, bigger pizza, does that mean that EVERYONE'S cries for bigger pizza should be ignored?

 

[Manabanana]

John Titor says that Russia will nuke the US in the middle of the Third World War. Aside from Russia now being one of the few countries with the US, they promised no nuclear strikes.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Bomb Chechnya into oblivion?

What, again?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

John Titor says that Russia will nuke the US in the middle of the Third World War. Aside from Russia now being one of the few countries with the US, they promised no nuclear strikes.

russia never said that they were "with" the u.s

 

[Ferrio]

Great two superpowers itching for fighting again... that's great.

 

[Che]

Oh no! Not another greedy goverment trying to kill everyone in its path to profit!

 

[Ripclawe]

WHATS MY NAME BITCH! WHAT??? SAY IT!

 

[doncale]

vs

Russia never lost it's superpower status even with the so called 'break up' of the Soviet Union.

 

[BigJonsson]

The difference is that Iraq wasn't really connected to 9/11 like Afghanistan was, thats why the US had no problem going to war there

So Russia will have the support to go after terrorists the same way the US did with Afghanistan, but not Iraq

 

[Kcerrid 31]

All I can say is enjoy the time we currently have on these boards guys. Because I have a feeling that in a few years, our time on these boards will be seen as the "good ole days". And to anyone supporting this bullshit "War on Terror", I don't want to hear jackshit when your beloved Party of choice is locking your dumb ass away for years as a " Person of Interest".

 

[KingV]

anyone have a clue how sophisticated Russia's army is?

Not so much "sophisticated" as BIG. Pretty much all of our stuff is better than theirs. They have a huge nice airframes and some pretty capable submarines, but our electronics poo-poo all over theirs. Maintenance and upkeep is a huge issue for Russia, a lot of their stuff is breaking. They still have a conscripted army which makes it huge, but poorly trained. Our professional soldiers are much better trained, and thus probably more professional in how they treat the local people. In terms of fighting terrorist groups, they're much better equipped than any given terrorist group.

IMO, we could probably establish control over the seas and air against Russia these days, but it wouldn't be pretty. Invading Russia is about impossible, too big to occupy.

 

[Poody]

You people have it mixed up. The F-22 was from Lockheed it was chosen over the F-23 from NORTHROP GUNMAN, not boeing.

Didn't Boeing buy parts of Northrop Gunman?

 

[MASB]

Good ol Put is also an ex KGB, don't let that calm looking innocent face and smile fool ya. Apart from terrorists, Oil rich bastards are next on his agenda.

I do admire the man, its like he would like to take back all the countries that the soviet union let go if he could get away with it

Yeah, I'm wondering about that. Besides various actions Russia has taken toward Belarus, Georgia and Ukraine, there are plenty of idiot Russians who want the 'motherland' whole again, i.e. Russians persecuting and dominating all the other ethnic groups like they have for the past few hundred years. All this would be the perfect excuse for Putin. "We found terrorists in Georgia, etc. Why don't you let us Russians help you root them out, while at the same time taking you over and killing your people for kicks? That's the Russian way!" I'm kind of worried about that, but hopefully the world would do whatever it took to stop such things. It would be World War III if all that happened though, so it would be horrific either way.

Bomb Chechnya into oblivion?

What, again?

lol. Exactly. The Russians can only make so many craters upon craters in Grozny.

As for Russia's military being superior to the US, I think some people on this board are overestimating the Russians, but it would be foolish to underestimate them. In terms of technology, we're mostly ahead of them, though they have certain aspects that are as good or better than ours (missiles that attack aircraft carriers, battleships, etc. for example). The solider's morale is lower than anything, but if you wave a red flag in front of their faces and convince them that the country is under attack, they're among the fiercest soliders in the world.

To me, Russia's military is kind of like, everything's in tatters, they have a few good advantages, problems with the troops/equipment, but if push comes to shove, they can whip themselves into a force to rival any in the world. In other words, they rise above themselves to meet the challenge.

 

[Drensch]

I think that when you deliberately murder innocents for your cause, you forfeit any right to have your cause taken seriously.

You do realize that the US is responsible for tens of thousands of innocent deaths in Iraq, yes? You also realize that the US knew that said persons would die as a result of an invasion, yes? I think you may have hit on something.

 

[MetatronM]

Hmmm...Russia going on the war path is not good for world stability at all. Having one large power and some of its friends engaging the enemy was one thing. Things were moderately contained as attacks between the two sides would not cause the conflict to escalate. Adding a second major power, acting on its own, and potentially going to war with at least some of the same people as the other big power opens up a whole new can of worms.

The number and type of possible situations that could result in a world war suddenly become much more numerous and plausible with the entrance of significant third party and the opening of a brand new war front.

 

[gofreak]

John Titor says that Russia will nuke the US in the middle of the Third World War. Aside from Russia now being one of the few countries with the US, they promised no nuclear strikes.

They've promised no such thing. It's highly unlikely they would, but they've given no guarantee. As someone else said, "that doesn't mean we will use nuclear strikes" != "we won't use nuclear strikes", much less than "we promise not to use nuclear strikes".

 

[norinrad21]

Where does the French stand in all this? They are going to be pretty pissed not being a part of anything :lol

 

[gofreak]

Where does the French stand in all this? They are going to be pretty pissed not being a part of anything :lol

They'll rear their heads I'm sure if Russia makes any attacks in the middle east, or Georgia.

 

[Particle Physicist]

They'll rear their heads I'm sure if Russia makes any attacks in the middle east, or Georgia.

only if they have contracts with that country