Ether_Snake
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Russians used Facebook tool to ID and influence U.S. voters
- Thread starter KSweeley
- Start date
Shadow Puppetry
Member
Lots of blaming Facebook, the Internet and idiots...
Why not blame the Russians?
Because he accepted Russia rubles.
StopMakingSense
Member
Now forgive me if I am wrong, but using retargeting would require having tracking pixels installed on the targeted websites, no?
If so, then they were illicitly (or not??) getting retargeting tracking pixels installed on these sites to do this targeting??
Edit: reread and saw yes, they created their own website/FB properties to do this.
If so, then they were illicitly (or not??) getting retargeting tracking pixels installed on these sites to do this targeting??
Edit: reread and saw yes, they created their own website/FB properties to do this.
Earthstrike
Member
No. Nations have access to levels of capital and intellectual resources that businesses generally don't. There's a reason the U.S. invented the Nuclear bomb in WW2. Russia wanted the worse party to win for a reason (worse with respect to american geopolitical influence and long run real wealth growth of course)
Imagine for every non-American countries out there that allows American social media to simply walk in and take over the market plus this shit they have to deal with now.
StopMakingSense
Member
This is more than just regular advertising, they were creating fake websites to gain the ability to use retargeting ads.
Electric Eye
Banned
The GOP reads this and probably thinks Russia should do it again in 2018.
Tune in for this weeks thrilling episode of "but Hillary..." with your host Chuck Norris.
From FB themselves- 10 Million people saw the Russian ads: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/10/hard-questions-russian-ads-delivered-to-congress/
(this might warrant its own thread)
(this might warrant its own thread)
dragonelite
Member
I'm more surprised Hillary campaign didn't used big data to allocate ads money wisely.
Pretty bad sign if they didn't. Social media and the electoral system of the US seems like a bad combi.
Electric Eye
Banned
Facebook is already seen as an old people place this is only going to drive the age gap more it's going to end up being the Fox News of the internet taking along its demographic. If that's what fuckerberg wants then keep at it shit head.
For those that don't know how the Facebook advertising game works, there are basically three main methods of building an audience to target Facebook ads with:
These are the basic tools of the trade that any Facebook marketer worth their salt would use on a daily basis. Given that we already knew that Russian advertisers were using Facebook advertising, it is not surprising in any way that they took advantage of the different custom audience options.
If Russia hacked voting databases to scrape data in order to target voters with Facebook ads then that would be news, though i haven't seen any hard evidence of that.
As far as Russia using fake websites with pixel tracking installed on them in order to re-target users, I'm not convinced that it's either groundbreaking or that it would be particularly effective as a strategy. By targeting users that are already engaged with right-wing conspiracies, are you really winning anyone over? This isn't some next level 5D-chess method of hijacking control of people's minds, it's just another of the 800 little tricks that digital advertisers use all the time.
As it stands, none of the details in the WaPo story are surprising.
Despite this, Facebook should absolutely apply more scrutiny when it takes money for ads, and they should absolutely be more transparent to users so that they know who's paying for the ads and why they got targeted.
- Demographics targeting. This is where you select from a list of interests and demographic data to broadly target certain sections of the population. e.g. I can send ads to all males aged 35-44 who live in Australia, are divorced and are interested in cars
- Facebook Pixel Tracking. Websites can freely install what's called a Facebook Pixel. When this is installed on a website, users visiting that website can be tracked and later targeted with ads. You can narrow it down to target users who've visited certain pages or performed certain actions on your page. e.g. I can target all people who have gone to the purchase page of my website but didn't buy anything.
- List targeting*. Advertisers can supply Facebook with a list of data on people they have in a spreadsheet. This data can be a list of email addresses, a list of names and DOB etc. Facebook will crosscheck (aka 'hash') those supplied details against their database to match the details with Facebook users. Once the two databases are matched up, the advertiser can then send ads to that list via Facebook. The supplied data can be sourced from wherever the hell you want: newsletter lists, hacked voting databases etc. In its automated system Facebook doesn't care or check to see if the list of supplied data was sourced legitimately or legally.
These are the basic tools of the trade that any Facebook marketer worth their salt would use on a daily basis. Given that we already knew that Russian advertisers were using Facebook advertising, it is not surprising in any way that they took advantage of the different custom audience options.
If Russia hacked voting databases to scrape data in order to target voters with Facebook ads then that would be news, though i haven't seen any hard evidence of that.
As far as Russia using fake websites with pixel tracking installed on them in order to re-target users, I'm not convinced that it's either groundbreaking or that it would be particularly effective as a strategy. By targeting users that are already engaged with right-wing conspiracies, are you really winning anyone over? This isn't some next level 5D-chess method of hijacking control of people's minds, it's just another of the 800 little tricks that digital advertisers use all the time.
As it stands, none of the details in the WaPo story are surprising.
Despite this, Facebook should absolutely apply more scrutiny when it takes money for ads, and they should absolutely be more transparent to users so that they know who's paying for the ads and why they got targeted.
One small correction. This isn't just email list targeting. I'm fairly certain you don't need an email address at all. As long as you have other information for someone, Facebook will try to match that information with a person. Or if you do have some email address but it isn't the one they signed up with, Facebook can still match you.
That's part of what makes this significant. Again, I'm not saying Russian ads definitely did this, but if you scraped voter databases you might not get an email address but you would get enough information to match it to someone on Facebook. First name, last name, place of residence and/or maybe date of birth could do it.
Ah yes, you are correct.
I haven't used it personally but yeah you can hash any sort of data you have against their database - names, DOB, phone number etc. and build a list that way.
Just the fact that you considered him shows a level of naivety that you should look into.
Why did you consider a multi billionaire kid for public office? Next time you should remember that entrepreneurs have a completely different way of thinking than public officials. They are incompatible most of the time with exceptions here and there. Zuck never showed a sign of being such exception.
retargeting is not a facebook tool, it's just another feature that's supported by pretty much any ad server. they also seem to be confused about retargeting and custom audiences, which are two completely separate things.
but ultimately it's just hilarious that the premise of the article is about a feature that was already well established close to 10 years ago. the headline also made it seem as if fb fucked up somehow with their "tool".
Widdle Puppy
Banned
So basically facebook provided the gun so the russian government could target the fucktards?
hobblygobbly
Member
Lots of blaming Facebook, the Internet and idiots...
Why not blame the Russians?
Because that would be a massive copout and this is still squarely the responsibility of American electorate, American media, and American corporations. The Kremlin took advantage of the stupidity in America.
The Kremlin has been doing this for a long time in Europe, especially when they try to use ethnic Russians by creating fake news that affects their communities in countries and also influence both far-left and far-right movements and parties, yet Russia has had no significant impact on the electorate.
In the end the American electorate still voted for Trump, and only 55% of eligible voters voted in the 2016 election... there is no other western democracy that is this apathetic. Trump and America's situation is still America's responsibility.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
It's entirely incidental that's whyLots of blaming Facebook, the Internet and idiots...
Why not blame the Russians?
SarcasticRedRover
Member
I recall reading that Facebook is aware of this and actually bought instagram because the younger demographics were shifting to that platform.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
Maybe they thought this was their best way of getting the sanctions removed and they almost succeeded too if Congress didn't box in Trump, or revenge for alleged Clinton meddling in their elections in 2011.
But I'm amazed at how efficient Russia has been. Every day it's like we get new info about the stuff they did. I wonder if it'll end with manipulating votes (unlikely) or altering/deleting voter rolls (likely).
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Holy shit, the dude from Kimmy Schmidt played Jefferson?
StopMakingSense
Member
Fun fact, Hamilton was the first professional acting he'd ever done.
MisterHero
Super Member
Twitter is in on it for not banning the President /conspiracy
Our next president. Right there.
Marky Mark
Member
Can anyone remember an article a while ago about some facebook survey this guy in a university made which was extremely good at targeting/profiling people? Something like it needed 10 pieces of information to know you better than your friend, 20 to best your spouse and 30 to know you better than yourself? The guy was worried it might get in to the wrong hands. Is this what the Ruskies used?
I'm going to try and find the article I'm tihnking about and post back here.
Here it is (slightly conspiracy theory-ish depending on your slant): https://scout.ai/story/the-rise-of-the-weaponized-ai-propaganda-machine
I'm going to try and find the article I'm tihnking about and post back here.
Here it is (slightly conspiracy theory-ish depending on your slant): https://scout.ai/story/the-rise-of-the-weaponized-ai-propaganda-machine
I wouldn't speak so soon. He has Facebook at his fingertips.
The Albatross
Member
For what it's worth they also worked to get Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein elected using the same methods, taking out ads and making fake stories on those candidates behalf. It's not so much that they're working to elect them as it is they're working to undermine another candidate, in this case Clinton.
The reasons are obvious. It's not because Russians support Republican causes or Green party causes, it's because Republicans doing well -- especially in this election more so than, say, 2012 where Russia actively worked against Romney -- causes chaos domestically and helps bolster Russia's international influence.
Russia doesn't support Sanders, Stein, or Trump on issues, but Clinton would have been a strong international leader against Russia. They tried to help the candidates who would undermine Clinton the most. Republicans won't have some come to Jesus moment about the Russians supporting their causes, motivating them to take action, but they should recognize that Russia (and others) will follow the same blueprint in the 2020 GOP primary (if there is one), and any subsequent election should there ever be a candidate who is demonstrably worse for Russia.
So it doesn't bother you that a foreign country is interfering in another country's electoral process by having a hand in pushing forward their candidate of choice?
You should probably have a look at what is going on in Hongkong too. What a conspiracy.
Yes I'm aware that the US interferes in other countries too putting in power their own puppet but that is not the point here.
ClosingADoor
Member
The issue is, that everyone can use this stuff, no matter what. There are no checks. So you can just put up bullshit stories, fake stories, funded by foreign money and nobody at Facebook will do anything about it. Of course, that is the case with a ton of automated ad networks, but Facebook is extra useful in this, since the ads just pop up in a persons newsfeed and I am betting a lot of people won't even recognize it as an ad. It is just a post that comes by.
Ever since Facebook ventured into the "Lets be a news portal so people can read the news on our site!" territory, they slowly turned into this inexperienced news/opinion platform where they didn't even consider how to moderate. Remember how facebook initially had a news team that would manually filter all the news articles that came through the site but then they were let go and an automated algorithm was introduced to promote news articles. What was that? How will the algorithm know if the articles are true or fake? Who cares?!!? The more bullshit we get on this shitty website the more ad revenue we can generate. Farmville was so 2009 guys. Controlling information and the hearts/minds of our citizens through our platform? Now we are cooking with fire.
RumblingRosco
Member
I wasn't going to dignify your post with a response, but no, I'm not letting you get away with your terrible attitude.
You're saying that I'm naive because I am willing to consider someone as a potential candidate for political office? As in, it's a mistake or an error for me to consider my options, weigh candidates, and dig deep into their pros and cons? It's some how a bad thing that I am possibly able to recognize that even Donald Trump (whom, btw, I did not vote for) could have the potential to have a single positive aspect?
Why did I consider a billionaire kid for public office? I don't know, maybe it's possible that he could, on some level, be an exception? A possible exception that I'd certainly look into deeper before voting for if he ever officially announced candidacy. So, are exceptions a thing that could possibly exist to the point that it's worth at least looking into and considering as options for political candidates?
Ah, look at that! Even you admit that exceptions do exist, even if you feel Zuck isn't one of them. Could it be that, given your own admission, it might be reasonable for me to stop and take the time to dig in and consider whether Zuck really is a potential exception? Of course it's reasonable. There's absolutely no reason not to consider all candidates for any given political race, as long as I am willing to take the time to actually do my research before my final vote.
So I'm going to flip this and point my finger at you. It's not naive to consider options. The naivete is on your end, by being so damn entrenched and biased that you try to shame someone else for admitting that they'd consider a candidate, even if it's a non-traditional candidate. You are the kind of person that has pushed our political climate towards "teams" in which Democrats and Republicans will just vote along their party ticket without considering the exception, or even worse, will try to insult someone else for taking the time to consider options. You are pushing for a political environment where we aren't encouraged to analyze our candidates, which is not only worrisome on a large-scale, but you should also "look into" your low-level of critical thinking on a personal level.
Get the hell out of here with your shit attitude towards politics. Even if you're right and Zuck is a crap candidate - which, btw, I'm not here trying to argue he's a good candidate - you have the same narrow-minded perspective towards elections that leads to Donald Trump getting elected.
Here's the scary part: You don't need to alter voter data if you can alter voter's minds.
Dreams-Visions
Member
accurate.
God Dayumm
Banned
Ban advertisements
I think with the advent of 'big data' tools enabling more sophisticated targeted marketing tactics, governments all over really need to set some stricter ground rules on what data can be utilised (outside of the scope of privacy laws) for such purposes and what form advertisements can take. Given that this is the domain of some of the most influential companies in the world and has served as a key market force for continued existence of the internet, I imagine this will not be easy. I don't think governments are well equipped to formulate specific regulations at present either though which doesn't help either.
This here essentially confirms the Republican voters were heavily influenced by the Russians: https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...0e2e1d41e38_story.html?utm_term=.17e32fbcb5d9
Why does he LIKE like hes running out of time...
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