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Samsung surges past Apple in smartphones, upbeat on Q4

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Momo

Banned
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/28/us-samsung-idUSTRE79R0B620111028

Reuters) - Samsung Electronics Co overtook Apple Inc as the world's top smartphone maker in the July-September period with a 44 percent jump in shipments, and forecast strong sales in the current quarter in a clear warning to its rivals.

Samsung (005930.KS) only entered the smartphone market in earnest last year, but its sales have skyrocketed thanks to a sleek production system that rapidly brings new products to market. Apple (AAPL.O) introduced its first iPhone in 2007.

"In the handset division, Samsung has no real rival models to challenge its products except for the iPhone 4S. Apple and Samsung will continue to dominate the market in the fourth quarter," said Kim Hyun-joong, a fund manager at Midas Asset Management, which owns Samsung shares.

Profits from the South Korean firm's telecoms division, announced on Friday, more than doubled from a year ago to a record 2.5 trillion won ($2.2 billion) and accounted for 60 percent of Samsung's total profit, offsetting a plunge in earnings from its bread-and-butter memory chips.

Shipments of smartphones jumped 44 percent from the preceding quarter to 27.8 million units, up nearly four times from a year ago, according to research firm Strategy Analytics.

Apple's iPhone sales shrank by 16 percent to 17.1 million units in the third quarter. Samsung had 23.8 percent of the global smartphone market in the third quarter, 9 points higher than Apple. Samsung's flagship Galaxy line of products is powered by Google's (GOOG.O) Android software.

Apple sold fewer phones in the third quarter, missing street expectations for the first time in year, as customers held off buying iPhones until the October launch of the latest version.

Samsung shares were up 1.6 percent by 0500 GMT (1 a.m. EDT), versus a 0.6 percent gain in the wider market .KS11.

The world's biggest technology firm by revenue reported a 4.25 trillion won operating profit for the July-September quarter, broadly in line with its earlier estimate of 4.2 trillion won.

That was down from 4.9 trillion won a year ago but up from 3.8 trillion won in the preceding quarter.

Samsung said its fourth-quarter earnings could be better than the third, boosted by one-off gains from its $1.4 billion sale of its hard disk drive business to Seagate Technology (STX.O).

"I am cautiously optimistic on the fourth quarter outlook at this point," Robert Yi, head of Samsung's investor relations, told analysts.

"Looking ahead into the fourth quarter, when industry demand is traditionally at its peak, Samsung expects sales of mobile devices to remain strong and flat-panel TV shipments to increase," the company added in an earnings statement.

Apple, whose iPhone sales account for nearly half the firm's total sales, reported a 40 percent gross margin, or the percentage of sales left after subtracting the cost of goods sold. Samsung's phone division reported a 16.9 percent operating margin, which further takes account of marketing costs.

Nevertheless, Samsung faces challenges as the new iPhone introduced earlier this month is notching up strong sales.

Nokia is also fighting back with its first phones based on Microsoft's (MSFT.O) Windows software. And Sony Corp (6758.T) announced on Thursday it would take full ownership of its mobile venture, Sony Ericsson, in a bid to exploit its music and video library.

Samsung on Thursday announced the launch of its Galaxy Note mobile device, adding to the flagship Galaxy lineup of products. The device, powered by Android, will square off against a series of new models released by Apple, Nokia and HTC Corp (2498.TW).

The iPhone, introduced in 2007 with the touchscreen template now adopted by its rivals, is still the gold standard in the smartphone market.

Samsung may not have come up with the concept, but it has adopted Apple's breakthrough smartphone idea perhaps better than any other handset maker. It tries to offer the Apple experience at a better price with better functionality.

"Samsung's rise has been driven by a blend of elegant hardware designs, popular Android services, memorable sub-brands and extensive global distribution," said Alex Spektor at Strategy Analytics.

"Samsung has demonstrated that it is possible, at least in the short term, to differentiate and grow by using the Android ecosystem."

Q4 SEEN BETTER THAN Q3

Profits from Samsung's chip business more than halved to 1.59 trillion won, but the division held up well as its relatively high exposure to lucrative mobile chips helped the firm offset a sharp plunge in prices of commodity computer memory chips.

Samsung was the sole profitable firm among major global dynamic random access memory (DRAM) chip makers in the third quarter.

Second-ranked computer memory chip maker Hynix Semiconductor (000660.KS) and Japan's Elpida Memory (6665.T) swung to deep losses as prices of DRAM chips used in PCs tumbled about 50 percent in the third quarter.

Samsung's chip business is also benefiting from strong demand for mobile processor chips used in Apple's iPhone and iPad tablet as well as its own Galaxy smartphones.

Samsung expected demand for PCs to remain weak in the fourth quarter because of weak seasonality, while demand for mobile devices and servers will be relatively strong.

"I see some signs that chip prices have hit bottom as inventories are running out. However, we don't yet know when the industry is going to pick up since macroeconomic uncertainties overshadow the demand outlook," said Park Hyun, an analyst at Tong Yang Securities.

Samsung's display business posted losses for a third consecutive quarter on weak demand for TVs and PCs.

But losses narrowed from the previous quarter, helped by strong earnings from the OLED display, which is widely expected to replace LCD as the next-generation flat-screen in mobile devices and TVs.

($1 = 1,115.250 Korean won)
A lot of interesting factoids here.
 

onken

Member
But losses narrowed from the previous quarter, helped by strong earnings from the OLED display, which is widely expected to replace LCD as the next-generation flat-screen in mobile devices and TVs..

Good now hurry up and make them bigger.
 
Didn't Apple Patent being number one? :p

Good news from Samsung there! i am sure they must be pleased and will celebrate by eating cookies
 

threenote

Banned
Boogie9IGN said:
Mwuahahaha screw you iPhone
236x224px-LL-f8694fdc_06402767-wtf.gif
 
Zaptruder said:
Apple's closed controlled approach to the market can't die quickly enough. If that means killing the iPhones, then so be it.
You realise there's plenty of alternatives for people who don't want to go with the iPhone, right?
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Zaptruder said:
Apple's closed controlled approach to the market can't die quickly enough. If that means killing the iPhones, then so be it.
Do you also hate the closed worlds of Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft?
 

Emily Chu

Banned
well I like porn on my phone the streaming kind so I decided to go with android back when 2.2 hit...

Droid X

it was really a toss up had iphone 4 had flash I would have gotten that....

the perfect phone imo would be iphone 5 running ICS 4.0 with full flash... : )
 

dejay

Banned
After reading the Jobs bio I decided to update my neglected iPod touch to iOS5 and see what I've been missing after switching to Android and Galaxy S and Galaxy S II, especially since the bio seemed to be one glowing advert for the amazing integrated design philosophy of Apple.

Whilst you can't really compare a top of the line Android to an aging Touch, I'm still happy with my current choice of OS, even though I want to try a Win phone next (which may very well be a Samsung again, seeing how Nokia's recent big announcement was a little underwhelming).

I'd like to think there is room in the market for both types of phones and both types of philosophies, although it annoys me I'm closed off from friends because they're using a closed service like Facetime and are unwilling to consider a compromise.
 

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Zaptruder said:
Apple's closed controlled approach to the market can't die quickly enough. If that means killing the iPhones, then so be it.

Glad many people disagree with you.
 

Shanadeus

Banned
neojubei said:
Glad many people disagree with you.
And more probably agree with him.

I agree with him.
The future should be open and flexible, not dominated by one, single company that will lure you into their all-encompassing software ecology and then leave you stuck there.
This is already happening with Apple to some extent, where people feel less able to switch from their iPhone to an Android because of all their iOS apps.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
neojubei said:
Glad many people disagree with you.

Put it another way, I'd totally buy into the iPhone if I could do a few basic things... like replacing my battery, having the option of having a larger screen that isn't a tablet, widgets, expandable memory storage, drag and drop file support on computers, no need to use iTunes for anything.

But if I'm to be honest with myself, I just described a Galaxy S2. I'd buy an iPhone, if it was so goddamn Apple-y
 
Is the Thread title a bit misleading?

Aren't Samsung's handsets numbers for all the models they make not just highend smartphones?

I don't really follow this stuff but Apple only have 2 handset models available for the period covered.

How many different models does Samsung have?

I know they have Android phones, Windows phones and Badu(?), do they also have dumb handsets too?
 
Marty Chinn said:
Why would you advocate limitations?

Because there's different working models that can coexist for different users...

But you know the world only works one way.

edit: You know, I just realized Steam is a lot like how Apple handle their ecosystem.Food for thought.
 
Marty Chinn said:
Why would you advocate limitations?
Because I think it's cultivated a better app store than Android has. But I'm also happy that an alternative exists for those that want it. Everyone wins except fanboys who will not be happy until their bitter rivals die.
 

Momo

Banned
Nick Laslett said:
Is the Thread title a bit misleading?

Aren't Samsung's handsets numbers for all the models they make not just highend smartphones?

I don't really follow this stuff but Apple only have 2 handset models available for the period covered.

How many different models does Samsung have?

I know they have Android phones, Windows phones and Badu(?), do they also have dumb handsets too?
It's only referring to smart phones
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Wrestlemania said:
Because I think it's cultivated a better app store than Android has. But I'm also happy that an alternative exists for those that want it. Everyone wins except fanboys who will not be happy until their bitter rivals die.

You'd think... but no. They don't really. Apple buying up good technologies to incorporate into their closed systems and using those patents to ward away similar innovations developed independently is what is worrying.

e.g. Google Voice - shit was on Android before Siri. Yeah, they made it better, but likely they'll also use those improvements as a baton to stave off competition - of course it was the natural evolution of voice - but now it's under Apple's closed eco-system thumb.

Similarly, they picked up C3, the 3D mapping company. That is cool shit man. And if it had gone to Google, then literally everyone would've benefitted. Instead it's now bought over by Apple, and more than likely, it'll stay exclusive to Apple - that content won't be seen by Android or Windows users, whereas Google Maps can be readily accessed on all platforms, including iPhones.

Making a good closed platform phone is one thing; but buying shit up with tons of cash and then using the licenses to stifle competition is the antithesis of a healthy market environment.

It's a philosophy, strategy and approach to computing that is decidedly anti-consumer.

What you'd really want is the choice to have an iPhone that's not hampered by the walled garden philosophy, making you pay hundred+ more for an extra few gigs of storage, or having to send off for replacement batteries, or having to download iTunes to do anything worthwhile with music and media on the phone.

But you don't get that choice.
 
This guy seems to think that Strategic Analytic's definition of Samsung smartphones and shipment numbers is a bit suspect.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2011/10/28/the-bullshit-samsung-smartphone-numbers/

The Internet is buzzing this morning with news that Samsung has overtaken Apple as the worlds leading smartphone vendor. The problem is, there are no numbers to actually back up the claim.

This guy references the same basic complaint, but puts things a bit more bluntly.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/october

Remember back in July, when Samsung announced it would no longer reveal phone and tablet sales data? They’re still not revealing them, but that hasn’t stopped Strategy Analytics from declaring them the unit sales leader in smartphones. (And it’s another case of shipments-vs.-sales-to-customers.)

Checking Google there were complaints in the past how Strategic Analytics was defining smartphones.

There analysis seems a little lacking from what I can see.
 

Salazar

Member
Always-honest said:
Haha, i love how people hat Apple on this forum.
It's beyond silly.

Korea triumphant.

tumblr_lt61vhwuvv1qdwt8jax.gif


I revere Apple's laptops and tablets and mp3 players but I don't need a high-functioning phone. I wish there were a way for their competition in that sector to proceed without the legal ugliness. I don't have much faith that there is, though, nor do I see Apple as terribly interested in forging a way towards such a thing.
 

Momo

Banned
One would surely define a smart phone by what OS it uses I would think.

EDIT: I love the new ava Salazar
 

big_z

Member
onken said:
Good now hurry up and make them bigger.

we probably wont see oled in big displays. that tech has been in developement hell and by the time they get there shit together it'll be too late since well have quantum dots displays.
 

FreeMufasa

Junior Member
Emily Chu said:
well I like porn on my phone the streaming kind so I decided to go with android back when 2.2 hit...

Droid X

it was really a toss up had iphone 4 had flash I would have gotten that....

the perfect phone imo would be iphone 5 running ICS 4.0 with full flash... : )

Wait. So I won't be able to watch porn when I get my Ipad?
 
Momo said:
One would surely define a smart phone by what OS it uses I would think.

EDIT: I love the new ava Salazar
The Strategic Analytics report is $6999, according to the contents there is a section describing smartphones.

Unfortunately after 7 pages of Google digging I gave up on trying to find a source for their definition.

There were issues raised back in 2010 when they were including Nokia feature phones in smartphone category.

There were a few Apple centric blogs querying where Samsung's. Shipment numbers were coming from as they have not published the data themselves.

Finally there is the hoary old issue shipped versus sold.
 

Kurdel

Banned
Well, it is to be expected when you have, like, 8 different models on the market you will sell more than your competitor that technically only have one. And trust me, when normal people want an iPhone, they usually don't mind if it's an older model.

Good for Samsung though! I hope they can keep this up and provide solid competition for Apple.

Freemufasa said:
Wait. So I won't be able to watch porn when I get my Ipad?

Of course you will. All the best sites have been html 5 since the iPad 1!
 

X26

Banned
Kurdel said:
Well, it is to be expected when you have, like, 8 different models on the market you will sell more than your competitor that technically only have one. And trust me, when normal people want an iPhone, they usually don't mind if it's an older model.

Good for Samsung though! I hope they can keep this up and provide solid competition for Apple.

so bitter
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Kurdel said:
Well, it is to be expected when you have, like, 8 different models on the market you will sell more than your competitor that technically only have one. And trust me, when normal people want an iPhone, they usually don't mind if it's an older model.

Good for Samsung though! I hope they can keep this up and provide solid competition for Apple.



Of course you will. All the best sites have been html 5 since the iPad 1!

If this were true, every other company out there would be outselling Apple.
 

JimiNutz

Banned
I've been using Samsung for my past 3 phone purchases.
Currently using a Windows Phone Omnia 7 (as I type) and love it.
Samsung electronics are my go to brand at the mo. Have a Samsung tv, laptop, mp3 player, phone etc. and am really pleased with all of them. Decent quality for a reasonable price and so far all items have proved to be very reliable.
 

Cipherr

Member
Kurdel said:
What are you talking about? I work for a service provider, and see what clients what every day. In what way is my post bitter? It's just the truth...


Thats fine and all. But this is from Reuters. In the real world, if offering less models means you sell less phones, then thats their problem, not the markets. 2 > 1, in the end thats all that matters. This isnt some blog, so dont expect them to even consider excuses, spinning, or the 'but.... but.... but...."'s. They just count the numbers and say which one is higher.

NutJobJim said:
I've been using Samsung for my past 3 phone purchases.
Currently using a Windows Phone Omnia 7 (as I type) and love it.
Samsung electronics are my go to brand at the mo. Have a Samsung tv, laptop, mp3 player, phone etc. and am really pleased with all of them. Decent quality for a reasonable price and so far all items have proved to be very reliable.

They have come a good long way in about 18 months. Some of their earlier Android handsets were god awful IMO.

In any case, with the massive ground Samsung made up in Q2, it was well known this was going to happen in Q3 for a while now.
 

Kurdel

Banned
Zaptruder said:
If this were true, every other company out there would be outselling Apple.

The article seems to refer to the Galaxy line when they talk about Samsungs smartphones. The way I see it, building that brand has been the most important part of this success. I have clients asking about Galaxy without even talking about Samsung (much like clients asking for iPhone without mentionning Apple).

I see Samsung phones on the same quality level as Apple. They offer more products in their Galaxy line, so of course they will have more sales. Also, the Galaxy S 2 is 99$ on a 3 year contract here. People would rather spring for an awesome phone that costs them 70$ less that can everything the other, more expensive model can do.

Just make great phones and you will sell them. Plain and simple.
 
Kurdel said:
They offer more products in their Galaxy line, so of course they will have more sales.

More products only equals more sales if the products do not compete with each other and/or are all successful in their own way. In the case of the Galaxy line, the phones do compete with each other insofar as people generally only buy one phone for themselves, and buying one Galaxy phone will usually lock someone out of buying another in their product line. More importantly, the Galaxy range is offering a product that many feel is as good or better than the iPhone, which is why it's selling (not simply "more products = more sales"). The iPhone was previously dominating the market despite many competitors offering a variety of handsets for different niches.
 
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