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[RM8]

Guys please excuse me ignorance but why do you think #gmaergate is bad ?

A woman sleeping with several men and promoting a free game is what spawned GamerGate and not the countless cases of actual corruption from developers and journalists that actually matter.

 

[n00bsauce87]

The Utah public doesn't want this law revoked.

I don't either.

Well there's the answer. There's nothing we can do but pout and move on with our day. I didn't imagine it being revoked, maybe something to make the law more sense while still being open carry.

 

[ElFly]

A woman sleeping with several men and promoting a free game is what spawned GamerGate and not the countless cases of actual corruption from developers and journalists that actually matter.

It is really catastrophic even if you ignore all the misogyny, because now they have poisoned the well on talking about actual corruption.

 

[Red Mage]

The issue we have here is not how strict CC is, it's the authority citing laws into refusing to conduct basic search at all in that particular event.

The cops went with an interpretation of the law that says people on a public university campus can only be screened for concealed carry in the one designated hearing location. All other locations, such as the venue where the talk was to be held, are hands off.

Then it's the lazy/ignorant approach, like I said. = P

I'd say any time you have someone talk about making an event the next massacre, it qualifies as requiring pat-downs. That's just me, though.

 

[Dude Abides]

As much as people dislike the current law, would it be more prudent to write to our congressmen and state government to make amendments/change laws? I mean you'll invoke the rage of the NRA, but don't you want to actually do something than moan and grown behind a computer screen?

All of this feeling bad and sad is utterly pointless unless you can make policy changes. Disengaged (politically) folks' opinions matter little and less. Good discussion, but eventually it'll hit archives and no one from GAF will care. Make a phone call to Utah's state government. In fact, Anita could have used this to get people to make changes. If she doesn't like it, there's gonna be quite a few states she may have a problem having public events at then. Especially now that NY Times have shown Americans that all one has top do is make a mass murder threat to make her stop the talk. It'll be too easy to prevent her from engaging public event from here on in.

Another option is just not to go to Utah.

It's not like you'll miss anything.

 

[Inferno313]

Guys please excuse me ignorance but why do you think #gmaergate is bad ?

Since it seems like some GamerGate supporters are finally coming to their senses, it seems appropriate to re-post this.

Mods: Please let me know if you want me to stop posting this. And/or feel-free to update the OP with it if you feel it worthy.


This is a list of actual things that GamerGate believes and has accomplished so far

• GamerGate still today claims that Zoe Quinn slept around for coverage favors. This was debunked literally months ago. And yet it persists.
  
  Kotaku shows that Nathan never wrote the articles he was accused of writing: http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346
  
  
  RPS: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...-valve-greenlights-50-more-games/#more-183169
  This is the only article Nathan ever wrote on Rock Paper Shotgun that mentioned Depression quest.
  
• Nathan Grayson is the journalist accused of this unethical behavior. He never actually wrote the articles he was accused of writing
• Despite Nathan Grayson being the journalist here, and GamerGate insisting this is about "ethics in journalism", they can't seem to stop talking about Zoe Quinn (not a journalist) and Anita Sarkeesian (also not a journalist)
  
  
• Zoe Quinn is still today accused of doxxing herself. No evidence has ever been presented to validate this claim. It is baseless.
• Zoe Quinn is still today accused of faking death, rape, and other threats. No evidence has ever been provided to back up why they think they're fake.
• Zoe Quinn was accused of lying about donating DQ proceeds to charity. Charity confirms the donations were actually received
• GamerGate first started donating to the charity when they thought Zoe did not. After the charity confirmed receiving the donations, GamerGate started harassing the charity and threatening it with legal action because they claim they "didn't disclose publicly" they had received donations from her (even though that is not actuall illegal). This is a charity is made up of volunteers and a part-time paid intern, helping people deal with depression
• Zoe Quinn is frequently accused of winning an award (instead of Papers Please) for Depression Quest because she slept with someone. These accusations still frequently fly around on Twitter. In actuality, her game didn't receive an award, but just an honorable mention. Papers Please did indeed win the award. No evidence backs up the claim she slept with someone to get the....honorable mention.
• Zoe Quinn was accused to have "deliberately sabotaged, DDOSed, doxxed, and shut down" TFYC because they were "competition" for Rebel Game Jam. When in reality she just ranted about them (and briefly argued with them) over Twitter about their policies (especially their trans policy, which was vague enough to be interpreted as something insanely extreme) and the site got temporarily overloaded with traffic. Apparently one of the project's sponsors pulled out over the trans concerns, but Zoe herself didn't do anything and Rebel Game Jam was never mentioned except as a imaginary motive for her imaginary crimes. The fact that she didn't remember how many times she tweeted about something earlier in the year was also supposed to be a scandal, somehow.
  
  
• Anita Sarkeesian was similarly accused of faking threats. Still happens regularly. The FBI confirmed the threats were real, currently under investigation.
• Anita Sarkeesian needed to cancel an appearance for a talk at a university because of extremely specific and violent threats against her and the students.
• There is a mailing list in which games writers talk to each other. Warning: Breitbart link. This fact was presented as inherently controversial, but not really explained why. Absolutely nothing worthy of discussing was ever found on this mailing list. Just people who happen to share the same job, joking with each other, and asking each other uncontroversial questions.
• Jenn Frank was accused of failing to disclose a conflict of interest. She actually did disclose this in her initial draft, but before publication this was "removed by editors because [it] did not fulfill the criteria for a “significant connection” in line with the Guardian’s editorial guidelines."
• Maya Kramer was accused of colluding/sleeping with the IGF chairman to secure an award for The Stanley Parable, a game she'd done PR for. This award was the Audience Award, decided by a public vote on the website and consequently immune to this alleged impropriety.
  
  
• The Escapist ran a horribly misguided attempt at interviewing GamerGate developers who are developers. Pretty much everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong.
  • Titles of the articles are "game developers" and "female game developers". Um. What?
  • None of the female game developers felt safe to share their actual identities
  • Male game developers were sourced straight from 4chan. Seriously
  • Ridiculously loaded questions
  • One of the male developers interviewed happened to be directly involved in coordinated attacks against Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and others including baseless accusations like tax fraud.
    
    INTERMISSION
    Also remember: neither Anita Sarkeesian nor Zoe Quinn are journalists. Let's all remember that Nathan Grayson is the only actual journalist involved here, so even if the claims against him were true - they're not - they're for some reason still focusing on Zoe and Anita.
    
    Definitely not misogyny tho.
    END INTERMISSION
    
    
    Escapist EIC removes his interview.
    
    ...
    
  • OOPS! Another guy The Escapist interviewed is a guy who literally wrote an article called "In Defense of Rape"

Here's why.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Here's why.

Thanks. Nice to see all this info in one place.

 

[Brakke]

Another option is just not to go to Utah.

It's not like you'll miss anything.

Which is her game plan.

"I won't be speaking at any Utah institution again until such time as firearms are prohibited at schools. I encourage others to follow suit."

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/522603334696333313

 

[Haloid1177]

Which is her game plan.

"I won't be speaking at any Utah institution again until such time as firearms are prohibited at schools. I encourage others to follow suit."

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/522603334696333313

To be fair others typically don't face the issues she does when speaking, so it's unfair to the students to encourage people not to speak there when it's usually a non-issue.

 

[kirblar]

Even if someone just skims that, what's the common thread?

A movement supposedly about ethics in journalism continually targets women, and men only if they are connected to the supposedly offending women.

Also, the women in question are rarely journalists.

And some of them, like Anita Sarkeesian, are not journalists, nor have they slept with any/traded favors with any. They can't even figure out how to accuse her of that. Yet she keeps coming up.

Is it really a mystery why this is movement is a terrible thing?

http://deadspin.com/the-future-of-the-culture-wars-is-here-and-its-gamerga-1646145844 This deadspin article did a really good job explaining the backstory and why it blew up- there were issues prior to it, and the idiots who were causing issues beforehand used it to vault it into the stratosphere.

 

[Joeki11a]

Does she like this attention?, what are her real thoughts on this reaction towards her?.

 

[Haloid1177]

Does she like this attention?, what are her real thoughts on this reaction towards her?.

Yes she likes death threats obviously.

Come on.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You have to love the posts on the first page saying she should just "Deal with it" re: threats of gun violence. Only in America.

Does she like this attention?, what are her real thoughts on this reaction towards her?.

I imagine she fears for her life, like most women who've been publicly threatened of being raped to death.

 

[Xcellere]

Does she like this attention?, what are her real thoughts on this reaction towards her?.

Who doesn't love receiving death threats? I sure do!

 

[J10]

Does she like this attention?, what are her real thoughts on this reaction towards her?.

It's time to stop posting.

 

[Stet]

Does she like this attention?, what are her real thoughts on this reaction towards her?.

Her real thoughts? Probably beeps and clicks, since she's obviously a feminist robot sent to destroy gaming and not a real person who thinks and feels like anyone else.

 

[boiled goose]

I don't even understand the issue.

You can host an event that says you can only come in if you leave your gun at the door. This would not infringe on anyone's rights. That is like saying that if you can't scream your political message inside the event they are infringing on the 1st amendment.

This is beyond absurd and extremely hypocritical.
I'm sure when politicians give speeches they don't permit guns inside events.

And regarding the whole gamergate debacle, I can't even comprehend why people care. If she is saying things you don't want to listen to, how about you ignore it? The fact that people criticize her reflects some very deep seeded pathetic insecurities.

To be fair others typically don't face the issues she does when speaking, so it's unfair to the students to encourage people not to speak there when it's usually a non-issue.

Actually, I like that she is taking a stance. If Utah wants to have crazy laws they are going to have to deal with the fact that sane people won't want to go there.
The same goes for homophobic, anti reproductive rights, etc. laws. You will turn people away.

 

[dLMN8R]

Even if someone just skims that, what's the common thread?

A movement supposedly about ethics in journalism continually targets women, and men only if they are connected to the supposedly offending women.

Also, the women in question are rarely journalists.

And some of them, like Anita Sarkeesian, are not journalists, nor have they slept with any/traded favors with any. They can't even figure out how to accuse her of that. Yet she keeps coming up.

Is it really a mystery why this is movement is a terrible thing?

In addition to my post that was quoted above, this is a great article too:

GamerGate is an attack on ethical journalism

1) The main target of #GamerGate is not a journalist. She’s a video game developer. Holding her accountable for “ethics in journalism” is like telling your accountant that it’s his job to negotiate peace treaties in the Middle East.

2) The second biggest target of #GamerGate is an exemplar of clean journalism. If what you don’t like about gaming journalism is that it’s too cozy with the industry and therefore the writers are afraid to be critical, then your fucking hero should be Anita Sarkeesian. She funded herself with Kickstarter and not industry money. She is harshly critical of video games, even as she is a fan. She is the ideal of what a critical gaming journalist should be: Knowledgeable, critical, fair, thorough and utterly non-corrupt.

3) The biggest victory to date of #GamerGate has been an attack on ethical journalism. One of the most important ideas when it comes to ethical journalism is that there’s a wall between advertising and editorial. #GamerGaters hate this rule of ethics, because, as opponents of ethical journalism, they wish to control what journalists say and censor any ideas or opinions that they don’t want to hear. And so they have been targeting advertisers, trying to get them to pull ads from gaming websites that publish ideas they wish to censor.

5) The most recent target of #GamerGate was selected because she engages in ethical journalism. If Brianna Wu had kept her mouth shut and just quietly developed video games, she probably would have been left alone. Instead, she dipped her toe into the art of writing ethical journalistic pieces. But, because they are opponents of ethical journalism, #GamerGaters attacked Wu like they do any other young woman that doesn’t just churn out mindless pro-sexist propaganda.

6) One of the main leaders of #GamerGate works for Breitbart. Milo Yiannopoulos has been up front, rallying the troops of #GamerGate and even helping them select the inevitably young, female targets for harassment. He also works for Breitbart, an organization whose hostility towards ethical journalism is legendary. No surprise there, because #GamerGate is also opposed to ethical journalism.

In other words, #GamerGate is about “ethics in journalism” in the same way Fox News is “fair and balanced”, which is to say “not in the slightest and, in fact, they are the opposite”. Fox News called itself “fair and balanced” to cover for a not-exactly-discreet intention to be unfair, unbalanced and frequently just straight up misleading. And so #GamerGate claims to be about ethics in journalism, when in fact it is about the opposite: Bullying gaming journalists until they get in line with a corporate-friendly agenda of uncritically marketing “games pitched at the intellectual and emotional level of a 16-year-old suburban masturbator“. Anyone who actually tries to talk about anything interesting or intellectually engaging, particularly if female, will be drilled out with harassment.

GamerGate discussion should probably be constrained to this thread though: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=134606878

 

[tci]

And regarding the whole gamergate debacle, I can't even comprehend why people care. If she is saying things you don't want to listen to, how about you ignore it? The fact that people criticize her reflects some very deep seeded pathetic insecurities.

Yea, and that is the problem. Too many are upright offended that a female have any opinions about the content of games. And some even their twisted ideals too far.

If it wasn't for being on the Internet for a long time, I would have been surprised. This is just utter cowardly and pathetic.

 

[SliceSabre]

I don't even understand the issue.

You can host an event that says you can only come in if you leave your gun at the door. This would not infringe on anyone's rights. That is like saying that if you can't scream your political message inside the event they are infringing on the 1st amendment.
This is beyond absurd and extremely hypocritical.
I'm sure when politicians give speeches they don't permit guns inside events.

And regarding the whole gamergate debacle, I can't even comprehend why people care. If she is saying things you don't want to listen to, how about you ignore it? The fact that people criticize her reflects some very deep seeded pathetic insecurities.



Actually, I like that she is taking a stance. If Utah wants to have crazy laws they are going to have to deal with the fact that sane people won't want to go there.
The same goes for homophobic, anti reproductive rights, etc. laws. You will turn people away.

As some people in this thread have said before the way the law is written it would be against the law for that to be enforced so the police would be breaking the law if they took people's guns away.

 

[jon bones]

Does she like this attention?, what are her real thoughts on this reaction towards her?.

think for a minute and re read your post

 

[boiled goose]

As some people in this thread have said before the way the law is written it would be against the law for that to be enforced so the police would be breaking the law if they took people's guns away.

Yes that is fine. If the people of Utah want people to come speak at their universities, they have to change the laws.

 

[KingGondo]

think for a minute and re read your post

It's disturbingly close to the sentiment expressed when somebody famous is accused of raping a woman.

"She just wanted the attention!"

 

[Zomba13]

It's disturbingly close to the sentiment expressed when somebody famous is accused of raping a woman.

"She just wanted the attention!"

Yeah but what if she faked it all doe? What if she wanted the attention doe? Follow the money doe!

 

[Volimar]

In addition to my post that was quoted above, this is a great article too:




GamerGate discussion should probably be constrained to this thread though: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=134606878

These posts are great. I wouldn't have seen them since I've been avoiding the gamergate thread, but they're great reads. Thanks for crossposting them!

 

[KingGondo]

Yeah but what if she faked it all doe? What if she wanted the attention doe? Follow the money doe!

That girl knew that getting raped by Kobe/Ben Roethlisberger/Jameis Winston was her ticket to stardom!

 

[Corronchilejano]

The issue we have here is not how strict CC is, it's the authority citing laws into refusing to conduct basic search at all in that particular event.

So... what she was asking for was strictly illegal? Cause it doesn't seem so.

 

[Zoe]

So... was she asking strictly illegal? Cause it doesn't seem so.

Depends on how you interpret the law. You can be certain they would have been challenged if they went through with it.

 

[Takuan]

It's odd how blind these crazies are to the fact that their actions only strengthen her position.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

It's odd how blind these crazies are to the fact that their actions only strengthen her position.

Do they even care though?

Its more about power and "lulz" isn't it? that's the vibe I always got from it.

Though reading that threat, who knows.

 

[Infinite]

So... what she was asking for was strictly illegal? Cause it doesn't seem so.

Don't see how getting into the specifics of this silly law matters. She opted not to go in the end.

 

[Htown]

It's odd how blind these crazies are to the fact that their actions only strengthen her position.

their primary goal isn't to make somebody look bad, it's to terrorize them into submission

 

[Corronchilejano]

Don't see how getting into the specifics of this silly law matters. She opted not to go in the end.

That's... that's part of the OP?

It's not just the fact she received death threats (and was not notified of the fact), but also that police did not have the power (or the desire) to ban guns from the event.

 

[Infinite]

That's... that's part of the OP?

It's not just the fact she received death threats (and was not notified of the fact), but also that police did not have the power (or the desire) to ban guns from the event.

The law is silly and probably needs to be changed but that's the only thing that needs to be said on that front.

 

[Zoe]

The law is silly and probably needs to be changed but that's the only thing that needs to be said on that front.

That's not how the OP felt when he made the thread:

I don't know what you guys are perplexing about, I made the thread with mass shooting and "cop refusing to ban gun" in the title to talk about the law aspect to begin with, that's why this is created in OT. If I want to step into the mine field of Gamergate, I'd stay in that thread in gaming discussion.

 

[Infinite]

That's not how the OP felt when he made the thread:

I guess I don't really care to talk about and I find pointless when it's all said and done. In the end she opted not to go.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Her real thoughts? Probably beeps and clicks, since she's obviously a feminist robot sent to destroy gaming and not a real person who thinks and feels like anyone else.

Joeki11a clearly has a thing against cyber-people.

Why nobody talks about Zoe injecting microchips in herself and making that seem like its cool?, hovering her hand over the phone to log into twitter.....really?.

 

[Valhelm]

Joeki11a clearly has a thing against cyber-people.

That microchip shit is pretty weird, though.

 

[Aeana]

That microchip shit is pretty weird, though.

It's no weirder to me than opening up your earlobe with a circular object or any of the other stuff people do these days.

 

[Yoritomo]

So... what she was asking for was strictly illegal? Cause it doesn't seem so.

I don't think you can bar or prevent CCW permitted individuals from carrying in a public institution, including schools, in Utah.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think you can bar or prevent CCW permitted individuals from carrying in a public institution, including schools, in Utah.

CCW permits are normally for cops and such, right?

 

[Corgi]

That microchip shit is pretty weird, though.

idk. If I could somehow get my passport and creditcard stuff info securely chipped into my body somewhere. Traveling abroad would be like 10% as stressful.

 

[Zoe]

CCW permits are normally for cops and such, right?

No, normal citizens.

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

I can understand why she cancelled, I'd be pretty damn terrified too. What I don't get is why she was asking about concealed carry stuff when, going by the threat, the dude was gonna open carry shit in there and murder people. Like, can you concealed carry a semi-auto rifle?

My understanding is you can ask people who are open carrying to leave, so...

But since they were of course gonna take the threat seriously, none of that really matters, I guess.

 

[antipode]

CCW permits are normally for cops and such, right?

No, you just need to not be convicted of a felony.

As part of a National Rifle Association-backed movement to roll back concealed-carry restrictions, in the mid-1990s Utah became a "shall issue" state. That means it grants concealed-carry permits unless it has a compelling reason (such as a felony record) not to do so. Licensees don't need to demonstrate proficiency with a handgun, and they don't even need to set foot in the Beehive State. They just have to take a class on firearm safety and pay a processing fee (approximately $50) and some of the cheapest renewal fees in the business (as little as 75 cents every five years).

 

[Yoritomo]

Yeah Utah is pretty lax. Not a fan of their screening process or allowing out of state licensees.

 

[diehard]

No, you just need to not be convicted of a felony.

Negative.

Don't trust an article that is about how easy it is to get a permit and ends with "with my application still being processed.."

Here is what is required.

Proof of good character...whereas the applicant;
has not been convicted of a felony;
has not been convicted of any crime of violence;
has not been convicted of any offense involving the use of alcohol;
has not been convicted of any offenses involving the unlawful use of narcotics or other controlled substances;
has not been convicted of any offenses involving moral turpitude;
has not been convicted of any offense involving domestic violence;
has not been adjudicated by a court of a state or of the United States as mentally incompetent, unless the adjudication has been withdrawn or reversed

Your fingerprints are taken and you have to obtain a Weapon Familiarity Certification are required with an application as well.

 

[Valhelm]

It's no weirder to me than opening up your earlobe with a circular object or any of the other stuff people do these days.

Oh, true. Objectively, her injecting a microchip into herself is no less normal than getting a haircut or undergoing any type of cosmetic surgery. But because that procedure is very unusual in our culture and doesn't have a huge amount of practical applications yet, it's a bit strange.

 

[Dead Man]

It is really catastrophic even if you ignore all the misogyny, because now they have poisoned the well on talking about actual corruption.

Yeah, thart's what pisses me off. You even raise the subject in a lot of places and you get written off with gamergate tags and other bullshit responses. There are massive issues to be discussed, but these fuckwits have poisoned the conversation so much the other fuckwits can't even have the corruption conversation now.

idk. If I could somehow get my passport and creditcard stuff info securely chipped into my body somewhere. Traveling abroad would be like 10% as stressful.

Until somebody went to chop out that part of your body since you can't just hand it over...

 

[Vagabundo]

Do you think the threats would stop? She collected money to make this series and I'm pretty sure the same people sending death threats would take a 180 and call her a "lying, robber bitch, who stole my money!" if she stops making videos.

I think it's about high time to "turn the witch hunt around" and show people that this kind of behavior is unacceptable and will have consequences in real life.

I do. The internet has a very short attention span. She'd have to go dark though, lock down her social media.