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Saudi Arabia to build world’s largest solar powered desalination plant

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Walpurgis

Banned
Saudi Arabia to build World’s largest Solar Powered Desalination Plant
According to the country’s officials, the solar-powered desalination plant will treat around 60,000 cubic meters of seawater daily for local residents in the city. The project, due to be completed in 2017, will supply more than 100,000 residents with clean water every day, leaving no carbon trace.

Because of its solar-power, the plant will be able to produce surplus energy during the day. The surplus energy will then be used by the plant in the night, enabling the plant to produce zero carbon emissions, becoming the first zero carbon emission desalination plant in the world, according to environmental observers.
This news is a bit of a relief for me. I've always worried about the depletion of fresh water and the sorts of problems it would lead to in the future. I do wonder how much this costs to build since I've heard that desalination is extremely expensive. Free fuel should be a huge help but even then it might be cost prohibitive for less wealthy nations . In any case, I hope more first world countries start building these things. I'm surprised that the U.S. doesn't have this for California.

I found this long article for some background on Saudi Arabia's relationship with solar energy.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/saudis-solar-energy/395315/
The Atalntic said:
The [Saudi] government sells gasoline to consumers for about 50 cents a gallon and electricity for as little as 1 cent a kilowatt-hour, a fraction of the lowest prices in the United States. As a result, the highways buzz with Cadillacs, Lincolns, and monster SUVs; few buildings have insulation; and people keep their home air conditioners running—often at temperatures that require sweaters—even when they go on vacation.

Saudi Arabia produces much of its electricity by burning oil, a practice that most countries abandoned long ago, reasoning that they could use coal and natural gas instead and save oil for transportation, an application for which there is no mainstream alternative. Most of Saudi Arabia’s power plants are colossally inefficient, as are its air conditioners, which consumed 70 percent of the kingdom’s electricity in 2013. Although the kingdom has just 30 million people, it is the world’s sixth-largest consumer of oil.

Now, Saudi rulers say, things must change. Their motivation isn’t concern about global warming; the last thing they want is an end to the fossil-fuel era. Quite the contrary: they see investing in solar energy as a way to remain a global oil power.

The Saudis burn about a quarter of the oil they produce—and their domestic consumption has been rising at an alarming 7 percent a year, nearly three times the rate of population growth. According to a widely read December 2011 report by Chatham House, a British think tank, if this trend continues, domestic consumption could eat into Saudi oil exports by 2021 and render the kingdom a net oil importer by 2038.

That outcome would be cataclysmic for Saudi Arabia. The kingdom’s political stability has long rested on the “ruling bargain,” whereby the royal family provides citizens, who pay no personal income taxes, with extensive social services funded by oil exports.

[...] Three years ago, Saudi Arabia announced a goal of building, by 2032 [delayed to 2040], 41 gigawatts of solar capacity, slightly more than the world leader, Germany, has today. According to one estimate, that would be enough to meet about 20 percent of the kingdom’s projected electricity needs—an aggressive target, given that solar today supplies virtually none of Saudi Arabia’s energy and, as of 2012, less than 1 percent of the world’s.

[...] The goal, he said, is not just to install solar panels across Saudi Arabia but to export them—a way, Saudi officials hope, to create high-paying tech jobs for the kingdom’s large population of young people. (Some two-thirds of Saudis are younger than 30.) Officials also want to bankroll solar installations in other countries, to boost the market for Saudi-made panels. Among the potential locations is the United States, where Turki envisions the kingdom undercutting other solar providers in part by tapping cheap development loans from Saudi banks.
This article is from last summer but it is an interesting turn of events and certainly not what I expected. Even as a someone living in the first world, the wastefulness in the kingdom astonishes me.
 

Kin5290

Member
With the price of oil as it is and Saudia Arabia's cash reserves shrinking, how are they going to pay for this?
 

cameron

Member
I've never heard of this. What does it do?

Beyond the links to climate problems, marine biologists warn that widespread desalinization could take a heavy toll on ocean biodiversity; as such facilities' intake pipes essentially vacuum up and inadvertently kill millions of plankton, fish eggs, fish larvae and other microbial organisms that constitute the base layer of the marine food chain. And, according to Jeffrey Graham of the Scripps Institute of Oceanography's Center for Marine Biotechnology and Biomedicine, the salty sludge leftover after desalinization for every gallon of freshwater produced, another gallon of doubly concentrated salt water must be disposed of can wreak havoc on marine ecosystems if dumped willy-nilly offshore. For some desalinization operations, says Graham, it is thought that the disappearance of some organisms from discharge areas may be related to the salty outflow.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-impacts-of-relying-on-desalination/
 

The intake isn't as much an issue as the brine disposal, they can use subsurface intakes to minimize the risk to sea life small enough to be taken in. The disposal of the salt is what i'm interested in though, as there really isn't any great plan for that. Cali is proposing just dumping it back out or into estuaries, they have to look into ways to properly diffuse it. I don't know how feasible it would be to harvest said salt, but I think it would be better than dumping it back in the ocean imo.
 

Walpurgis

Banned

That doesn't sound too bad. I mean, dumping it back into the water is definitely a bad idea but the solution to this is to just not do that - it's not like gas emissions. Perhaps we can remove the salt and use it for food, and dump the other stuff back in the water. I think the other stuff would be biological material which might improve life in the ocean (or destroy it if pests are eating it). If it can't be dumped safely, they can just toss it in the desert.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
That doesn't sound too bad. I mean, dumping it back into the water is definitely a bad idea but the solution to this is to just not do that - it's not like gas emissions. Perhaps we can remove the salt and use it for food, and dump the other stuff back in the water. I think the other stuff would be biological material which might improve life in the ocean (or destroy it if pests are eating it). If it can't be dumped safely, they can just toss it in the desert.

I'm believe that the waste left after is actually to toxic to be used for food.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
I'm believe that the waste left after is actually to toxic to be used for food.

Hmmm. I suppose that complicates things. I believe disposing of it like radioactive waste adds a lot of cost to the procedure. Other than that, I'm not sure what to do with it . :/
 

SpyGuy239

Member
i didn't know this at all. i just recently went to a desalination plant in singapore. they are investing huge amounts of capital in it. my cousin is one of the engineers working with it.

Cool story dude, I'm from Singapore myself and have heard about this.

Seriously with the environmental effects? man, just can't win.
 

patapuf

Member
Cool story dude, I'm from Singapore myself and have heard about this.

Seriously with the environmental effects? man, just can't win.

Anything you do on a large scale is going to impact the environment. There is really no way around that.

Though the desert makes for a convenient place to dump some of the stuff.
 

Neo C.

Member
Hmmm. I suppose that complicates things. I believe disposing of it like radioactive waste adds a lot of cost to the procedure. Other than that, I'm not sure what to do with it . :/

Dump it on desert, dump it back to the oilfield which now has a lot of room after pumping out the oil. Just don't dump it back to the ocean.
 

Geist-

Member
I'm pretty confident we'll find a way to get this working in an environmentally friendly way. Desalination is the future, we just need to find solutions to waste disposal.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Anything you do on a large scale is going to impact the environment. There is really no way around that.

Though the desert makes for a convenient place to dump some of the stuff.

Dump it on desert, dump it back to the oilfield which now has a lot of room after pumping out the oil. Just don't dump it back to the ocean.

Now that I think about it, our end goal should be to make the desert green (as it once was for a bit after the ice age). Maybe they can just hold it in storage facilities until we can shoot this stuff into the sun.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Now that I think about it, our end goal should be to make the desert green (as it once was for a bit after the ice age). Maybe they can just hold it in storage facilities until we can shoot this stuff into the sun.

Yeah, but what if we evolve to withstand the heat of the sun and want to colonize it? Then what?
 

Valinor

Banned
Anything you do on a large scale is going to impact the environment. There is really no way around that.

Though the desert makes for a convenient place to dump some of the stuff.

I am not from Singapore. but go occasionally to friends and cousin's place. its quite beautiful in terms of flora . its hard to believe that Singapore would be involved in anything detrimental to the environment. its like the city is made of trees.

so i remember him taking me to a newer island in the sense its one of those they have made by terra forming or should i say aquaforming. the desalination plant when i went was fully constructed. they had made it fully and were waiting to test it out in full.

it was clean . it really looked futuristic and hi tech better than anything i went to before. maybe this is the reason its not in full production mode yet. thought it was about a year ago. i will try and ask him about it but he was pretty secretive about it. didn't want me to post pictures of it on Facebook. maybe the desalination technology is proprietary.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Saudi Arabia finally putting their fuckload of money to good use instead of proselytizing wahhabism.

...

they can do both, you realize?




anyway, hopefully they can figure out how to make desal work without fucking the environment
 
Beyond the links to climate problems, marine biologists warn that widespread desalinization could take a heavy toll on ocean biodiversity; as such facilities' intake pipes essentially vacuum up and inadvertently kill millions of plankton, fish eggs, fish larvae and other microbial organisms that constitute the base layer of the marine food chain. And, according to Jeffrey Graham of the Scripps Institute of Oceanography's Center for Marine Biotechnology and Biomedicine, the salty sludge leftover after desalinization for every gallon of freshwater produced, another gallon of doubly concentrated salt water must be disposed of can wreak havoc on marine ecosystems if dumped willy-nilly offshore. For some desalinization operations, says Graham, it is thought that the disappearance of some organisms from discharge areas may be related to the salty outflow.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-impacts-of-relying-on-desalination/

I guess my question would be, how big of a problem is this really compared to everything else?

I don't doubt that anything we do will have some environmental impact. The question is, what options cause the least harm?

This is also why I'm in favor of (highly-regulated and well-inspected) nuclear power. I don't doubt that there are dangers, but what other options are there for generating enormous amounts (!) of power with zero carbon emissions?
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Yeah, but what if we evolve to withstand the heat of the sun and want to colonize it? Then what?
I don't think any waste we shoot into the sun would reach the surface and the sun is huge so it wouldn't matter either way.
I am not from Singapore. but go occasionally to friends and cousin's place. its quite beautiful in terms of flora . its hard to believe that Singapore would be involved in anything detrimental to the environment. its like the city is made of trees.

so i remember him taking me to a newer island in the sense its one of those they have made by terra forming or should i say aquaforming. the desalination plant when i went was fully constructed. they had made it fully and were waiting to test it out in full.

it was clean . it really looked futuristic and hi tech better than anything i went to before. maybe this is the reason its not in full production mode yet. thought it was about a year ago. i will try and ask him about it but he was pretty secretive about it. didn't want me to post pictures of it on Facebook. maybe the desalination technology is proprietary.
That sounds really cool. It's great to hear different countries exploring this technology. It seems that the countries at the forefront are not the big, rich countries in the west but countries in the east (China is another). I wonder why that is.
I guess my question would be, how big of a problem is this really compared to everything else?

I don't doubt that anything we do will have some environmental impact. The question is, what options cause the least harm?

This is also why I'm in favor of (highly-regulated and well-inspected) nuclear power. I don't doubt that there are dangers, but what other options are there for generating enormous amounts (!) of power with zero carbon emissions?
Doesn't nuclear power have the same issue of producing radioactive/toxic waste?
 

Valinor

Banned
Now that I think about it, our end goal should be to make the desert green (as it once was for a bit after the ice age). Maybe they can just hold it in storage facilities until we can shoot this stuff into the sun.

http://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Wild_Arabia

episode 2 jewel of arabia

"In a remote corner of southern Arabia one mountain range holds a remarkable secret. Swept by the annual Indian Ocean monsoon, the Dhofar mountains become a magical lost world of waterfalls and cloud forests filled with chameleons and honey-badgers. Off-shore rare whales that have not bred with any others for over 60 thousand years and green sea turtles come ashore in their thousands, shadowed by egg-stealing foxes. Heat-seeking cameras reveal, for the first time ever, striped hyenas doing battle with Arabian wolves. Meanwhile local researchers come face-to-face with the incredibly rare Arabian leopard. "

not at all what people think when they middle east or dessert but it exist. if i remember correctly , i think the expert in it said something along the lines of how this exists because of precipitation and weather system contributing daily inflow of water everyyear with some probably geogrpahical elevation involvement.

basically the answer to transforming the dessert is not about terraforming but rather weather control. so we would need to create some sort of constant weather system that would bring in wind rain etc complex factors cyclically. its not just water

there is even a historical example with some empire in the east in cambodia i think that scientist postulate lost power and economic might due to change in weather patterns leading to less monsoons and eventually faded into tomb raider games .(i think this is the angork wat temple with khmer empire )
 

Valinor

Banned
Saudi Arabia finally putting their fuckload of money to good use instead of proselytizing wahhabism.

i think if we get rid of extremist ideology, the middle east would be like the world's vacation spot. what with the sea diving and money it would invest in tourism industry. its mind boggling, the possibilities.
 
I agree that waste management is becoming a larger crisis as we go into the future

we really need to invest in more better methods to deal with waste
 
Waste disposal as an issue is overblown. So long as you don't dump it carelessly in a delicate environment (like, say, the ocean), it's really not a serious obstacle. We've got tons of otherwise useless space for storing shit like desalination and nuclear power byproducts.

Availability of fresh water is the bigger concern, no question.

Concern over waste (and you know baseless fearmongering) led to sticking with fossil fuels for decades after we should have started phasing that shit out in favor of nuclear. Damn 70's green movement.
 

Valinor

Banned
Waste disposal as an issue is overblown. So long as you don't dump it carelessly in a delicate environment (like, say, the ocean), it's really not a serious obstacle. We've got tons of otherwise useless space for storing shit like desalination and nuclear power byproducts.

Availability of fresh water is the bigger concern, no question.

Concern over waste (and you know baseless fearmongering) led to sticking with fossil fuels for decades after we should have started phasing that shit out in favor of nuclear. Damn 70's green movement.

agreed about waste disposal not being much of an issue. but the arabian seas are home to a multitude of marine wildlife. and wouldn't de-salination of the oceans lead to undapatable environmnet for the fauna present there . specifically krill and micro orgainisms that make up part of the larger chain. plankton et.all
 

Walpurgis

Banned
http://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Wild_Arabia

episode 2 jewel of arabia

"In a remote corner of southern Arabia one mountain range holds a remarkable secret. Swept by the annual Indian Ocean monsoon, the Dhofar mountains become a magical lost world of waterfalls and cloud forests filled with chameleons and honey-badgers. Off-shore rare whales that have not bred with any others for over 60 thousand years and green sea turtles come ashore in their thousands, shadowed by egg-stealing foxes. Heat-seeking cameras reveal, for the first time ever, striped hyenas doing battle with Arabian wolves. Meanwhile local researchers come face-to-face with the incredibly rare Arabian leopard. "

not at all what people think when they middle east or dessert but it exist. if i remember correctly , i think the expert in it said something along the lines of how this exists because of precipitation and weather system contributing daily inflow of water everyyear with some probably geogrpahical elevation involvement.

basically the answer to transforming the dessert is not about terraforming but rather weather control. so we would need to create some sort of constant weather system that would bring in wind rain etc complex factors cyclically. its not just water

there is even a historical example with some empire in the east in cambodia i think that scientist postulate lost power and economic might due to change in weather patterns leading to less monsoons and eventually faded into tomb raider games .(i think this is the angork wat temple with khmer empire )
I heard on CBC radiio a month or two ago that the technology to control climate is available. The problem is, we're not 100% sure what would happen to the Earth. If that gets worked out, it could be promising.
 
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