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Scott's Stash: Say No to Next-Gen
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Trailer
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Next gen should focus on game mechanic complexity and graphical fidelity, not higher FPS or pixel count.
Kuranghi
Member
I doubt they would push 8K for next gen because basically no one has an 8K TV, they remain far too expensive for the average person to buy (average selling price for a 55" TV is £500-600) and also no one is really bothering to sell them except Samsung and thats more for show and to keep that market segment than to generate a profit.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Current gen can already do that, unless next gen makes heavy usage of AI for gameplay.
Punished Miku
Banned
I am down for the next Xbox. Its a pretty meaningful upgrade to get your library and PC stores in one device.
As for performance, 90% of the industry is on Unreal Engine. All you will need is a machine that can max that out. We've seen some Unreal 5 games struggle a little bit so an upgrade could help a bit. It will be another decade before anyone is meaningfully using Unreal 6. Only other thing is Ray tracing.
As for performance, 90% of the industry is on Unreal Engine. All you will need is a machine that can max that out. We've seen some Unreal 5 games struggle a little bit so an upgrade could help a bit. It will be another decade before anyone is meaningfully using Unreal 6. Only other thing is Ray tracing.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Examples?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Examples of what? You're the one who needs to give examples. What gameplay scenarios can current gen not do that next gen will be able to?
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I can't deal with this level of stupidity, sorry, I'm out.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
>Says something generic and dumb
>Gets called out because he made a stupid claim
>Refuses to defend his own position
>Is embarrassed and bails because he's too much of a moron and realizes his generic answer was nonsensical
Good job.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I hope no one buys next gen consoles and handhelds
Everyone should take a stand and say no to Sony and Xbox we don't need a next gen
Make sure there is plenty of stock because I am not part of that crowd, I want the new toys
Everyone should take a stand and say no to Sony and Xbox we don't need a next gen
Make sure there is plenty of stock because I am not part of that crowd, I want the new toys
saintjules
Gold Member
Next gen is gonna start at $700USD minimum. I don't see how a PS6 or next-gen Xbox it's going to be at $500.
Maybe they'll surprise us but I don't think so.
499$ digital and 599$ physical i think. sony doesn't mind taking a loss on hardware. other wise its gonna sell like crap.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
No, stupid. My post was very clear. Current gen games are basically last gen games running at higher framerates and resolutions. There are no meaningful differences in gameplay mechanics or environmental fidelity.
Compare that to something like Splinter Cell Double Agent, which released on both Xbox and Xbox 360 or Forza Horizon 2 that released on both 360 and Xbox One. Those versions were fundamentally different games, built around different hardware capabilities.
A new generation should not be about chasing more frames or higher resolution. We are there already. It should be about a real generational leap in environmental detail and how the game actually feels to play.
Jesus Christ almighty, have mercy on this poor soul.
Cyberpunkd
Member
You understand chasing shiny graphics is what got us into this mess?
Fake
Member
No. Unless you are just playing PS4 BC games, this is totally untrue.
Do you have a PS5?
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
And we should settle on 60 FPS and 4K as the baseline for next gen. Any leftover power should go toward actually improving graphics and world detail. I'm genuinely glad the push for 8K failed miserably.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Again, improving graphics is the last thing we need. Better writing, better audio, better world building, better enemy AI, new genres - this is what we need, not making things shinier.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Not anymore. But I did have one and played quite a few games, and nothing felt like something that could not have been achieved on a PS4 at lower resolution and framerate. That was not the case when the PS4 first launched.
You ignored the game mechanic complexity from my post entirely, why? And yeah, I still would argue we need better fidelity in games (no to confuse with resolution or framerates, which I think this generation focused on improving).
isnt RT suppose to make great graphics on easy mode? if those new machines are amazing at RT it should make games developers life much easier.
Fake
Member
Is Forza Horizon 5 a last gen game running at 60? Demons Souls?
Can you really believe those games can run on last gen systems?
I mean, reduce all the settings, the sky is the limit.
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poodaddy
Gold Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Let me explain it to you, fucking schmuck. There has been no meaningful differences in gameplay because of creative limitations, not because of hardware. Devs don't do the same shit gameplay we've been seeing since the PS360 era because they're constrained by the consoles, they're constrained by their own ineptitude. New and more complex gameplay mechanics can already be done now, but almost no one does them, so why the fuck are you asking about introducing them next gen when they're not already doing them?
Compare shit to the leaps we had 20 years ago, brilliant. Did you also know that Mario went from 2D to 3D and it opened up a whole slew of new gameplay possibilities. However, you can also understand that this doesn't happen anymore, right?
That's not how it works. A new generation strictly brings in new hardware, it doesn't suddenly make new gameplay mechanics possible at the point we're at. Unless the PS6 makes heavy use of AI (that you dismissed), there's nothing its hardware will do gameplay-wise that a PS5 cannot do, so asking them to focus on more complex gameplay is moronic.
That's why I asked you about gameplay mechanics that a PS6 can do that a PS5 cannot, but your pea brain took that as an offense and responded with an insult.
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deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
Actually the higher frames are benefit for players
I understand a game that is slow in concept, like an RPG, but 60fps should be the target anyways for those. Better than this for games that takes advantage, like sports games or hack'n slash
Lets be honest, ummm yes. I mean its not i look at last of us 2,rdr 2, GOW ragnarok and say demons souls or forza 5 make those games look last gen, at 4k/60fps they still look current gen.
Dr.Morris79
Member
What is a next gen?
Fake
Member
Before call something last gen, you need a definition of what is next gen.
None of you can point out. By the logic even a PC can run a last gen with ultra settings.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Forza Horizon 5 is on Xbox One…
Fake
Member
Thats... the point...
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Didn't you disagree with the other poster when he said current-gen games are just last-gen games?
Fake
Member
I said we need to understand what is the term 'next gen' is for.
What is next gen to you? 'A game can't run on old gen'?
How much of you guys fall into company/devs bs?
Ratched and Clank super fast SSD that only PS5 can run? Star War Survival that PS4 can't run, but somehow can run now? Mortal Kombat 'we are removing last gen consoles to prioritize next gen', but also 'we have a Nintendo Switch version'.
I mean, c'mon. Thats why I said "reduce all the settings, the sky is the limit."
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videogamedude
Member
imo this thread could have been made in the ps2/xbox/gcn era
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Looks like 11 years old while talking like he went into retirement when the NES launched. Checks out
SpongeMonster30
Neo Member
I don't even have the money for next gen LOL.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Yeah man, I'm honestly lost for words. Anyway, I agree with you that integrating AI into next gen hardware would be a great example of actually increasing game complexity.
I don't need convincing, trust me. I think we should just settle on 60 FPS for big budget console games and stop the madness, so resources can be spent elsewhere.
I didn't dismiss AI. You claimed current gen can already do everything next gen will do, and then you brought up AI.
And AI is a perfect example of something next gen could enable that is not possible today. So it turns out current gen can't do what next gen could potentially do. So what are you even trying to argue?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Who the fuck is Scotts Stash?
Never heard of him/it.
Am I missing out?
EDIT: Just looked at the TL/DR.
I agree that optimization and targetting high FPS should be prioritized over drastically dminishing graphical fidelity.
But fuck going for 60 fps. Go for 120 minimum.
Never heard of him/it.
Am I missing out?
EDIT: Just looked at the TL/DR.
I agree that optimization and targetting high FPS should be prioritized over drastically dminishing graphical fidelity.
But fuck going for 60 fps. Go for 120 minimum.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
A person on the internet with an opinion. You're probably too cool to know him.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I verbatim said "unless it's AI" in my very first response to you, and you proceeded to insult me. If that's not dismissing my post, then what the heck were you doing?
So, it turns out I already pointed this out, but you decided to instead attack me.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Its a common fucking problem. Let me tell you.
But I am still cool enough to respond to you. <bro fist>
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I said "next gen should focus on game mechanic complexity", which is an opinion.
You said "current gen can already do that", which is a clear, definitive statement.
So when I ask for examples to support your definitive claim, give examples instead of dodging it.
So yeah, AI is a great example, but I'm even more interested in CPU upgrades. Better physics, destruction systems, world simulation, and animations. I want deep sandbox games with massive simulation like Factorio or Satisfactory and physics like Kerbal Space Program or Teardown. And I want that level of complexity in big AAA productions, not just niche titles. That's just not possible on today's hardware. Not enough juice.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You got it backwards. I'm arguing that things are already as is. You're arguing they should be different. You're the one who needs to provide examples of differences that next-gen could provide, not the other way around.
It's all possible in a larger scale in AAA games. Games like Kerbal Space Program and Factorio can run on toasters and don't stress high-end hardware at all. It'd 100% be possible to scale them up to AAA level and have them run on current hardware, but nobody bothers doing games like these. This circles back to my point that the problem isn't hardware, it's creativity and originality. Shadow of Mordor/War have the Nemesis system that could be pushed further, but nobody else walked in its footsteps and we all get the same games over and over again. Flight Simulator is another big one, but relatively niche.
So, again, the games you want with more complex simulations, physics, more complex systems, etc, are all possible and have been for a long time. Just because devs/publishers don't bother doesn't mean they're not possible. What drives the AAA market is money, not creativity. Therein lies the problem, not the hardware. You'll get the exact same games with the PS6 and you will like it.
ByWatterson
Member
I'll always buy new consoles, but we're very obviously reaching the same point business PCs and smartphones reached years ago - tech gains dramatically outstrip the practical utility of those gains.
So software is king. That means ecosystems, mass consumer adoption, and slower but steadier growth.
So software is king. That means ecosystems, mass consumer adoption, and slower but steadier growth.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
You're arguing that current gen can already do "that". I simply wanted examples of what "that" is. That's it, it's not too much to ask.
How much CPU processing power is left on the table in a game like Spider-Man 2? Do you really think there is realistically enough headroom to implement destruction on the level of Teardown? I don't think so.
Shadow of Mordor Nemesis system is patented, so only WB (now Netflix, I guess) can use it.
A Flight Simulator sized world, but instead of planes, you drive cars and trucks like in Euro Truck Simulator 2. The ground-level detail would have to be so good that it never breaks immersion. That would be outstanding. Again, that is not possible on current gen due to hardware limitations. It's like the holy grail of open-world games.
Next generation to me id 1600p/60fps ps4 best graphics. That right there is like 4x-5x that right there is the next-gen experience for me anyway and I'm happy with that
Killer8
Member
Everyone always says things are "good enough" and they never are. Kids like me in the early 2000s thought PS2 was the peak of visuals and nothing would ever top it. All it takes is for PS6 to land and start slapping people across the face with its path-traced cock and people will pony up the $700.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The framerate warriors are directly responsible for the diminishing returns this gen. Thats a fact.
Gamers insisted devs push nothing but framerate. Now thats all we get. Last gen games at 60fps, call it next gen.
Gamers insisted devs push nothing but framerate. Now thats all we get. Last gen games at 60fps, call it next gen.
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KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
I would like to add to your list (which is entirely true) that the disappearance of proprietary game engines is a tragedy. Developers used to be able to adapt their engines to the games they wanted to make, now they adapt their games to UE5 (and struggle).
Cert.in.Death
Member
The main - and perhaps only consideration - is whether the device is going to allow you to play the games you want in the way you want to play them.
Live by that mantra and you can't go wrong.
Live by that mantra and you can't go wrong.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
This is the way.